@Starseeder As someone with ADHD the only thing I find harder to cope with than the crazy, in-crowd bureaucracy of Wikipedia is attempting to read that mile-long polemic. Where do they find the time to write this shit?
I’n not joking when I say he’s probably using an LLM to write this junk. It reads like it, and he’s already perfectly comfortable with illustrating his diatribes with embarrassing midjourney slop.
@Amoeba_Girl @sneerclub Is that why it is so repetitive, wandering, and tedious?
The funny thing is: it would be either way!
Prolix insanity is kind of a Rationalist / Rat-adjacent calling card.
I don’t know i had to skim it too. Its hard to see what point he’s trying to make. I can see why many of wikis choices are shit but he also seems to complain about takis magazine being removed witch just seems like a sensible choice. And he’s still up on his high horse about that conference where HBD people were invited to speak. They think “rationality” is about seeking heterodox thinkers but you don’t see anyone who believes in shit like miasma theory or any other discredited idea besides race there.
The lesswrong Rationalist sphere people all write like this. And I assume he gets paid via various podcasts/substack subs/a patreon. So this is prob mostly their job.
Quillette, Claire Lehmann’s longform magazine focused on science and cultural critique and the home of, among other things, the best-researched article I know of on gender differences in chess
I read the article, not a single mention of things like the research on stereotype threat in chess. I wish rationalists would crack open a sociology book at some point in their lives. They’re so interested in social phenomena, but while Less Wrong has a tag for psychology (with 287 posts), history (245 posts), and economics (462 posts), they seem unwilling to look at sociology for explanations, with it not even having a tag on LW.
Back in 1995, when I was born, Gerard was my age
“Gerard was the age I am now in 1995 when I was born. Alice is twice my age and stands 4 metres to the left of Gerard. She is half the height of Imhotep…”
ah yes quillette, that fine bastion of whitewashing
the best-researched article I know of on gender differences in chess
just… the absolute weirdest thing to pick? like, fucking seriously? or is there some weird-ass chess proxy-fixation among the rats that I have thus far been blessedly unaware of?
or is there some weird-ass chess proxy-fixation among the rats that I have thus far been blessedly unaware of?
Iirc ssc has written about it so yes
Has anyone informed them that Elon Musk, the smartest man alive, dismissed chess as two low-dimensional and prefers to be challenged by some PC multiplayer combat game instead?
Not even – it’s a simplified Civilization clone for mobile. (It actually sounds like a pretty neat little game, but, uh, chess it is not!)
There are no hidden layers to Elon Musk’s thinking. He likes the gratification of impulsively pushing a button and seeing the numbers go up. He likes games that are straightforward and easy to beat. He’d rather reset every 45 minutes than execute meticulous plans that extend far into an uncertain future. He does not think ten moves ahead. He just responds with maximal aggression to the latest change of conditions. (The stock is down again. Announce robotaxis!) When this works, he gets the satisfaction of dominance. When it doesn’t, he can always just reset and try again. Elon Musk’s suit of armor is that he is extremely rich.
So it’s the gamer equivalent of one of those big-game hunting safaris where the game has been corralled and pre-tranquilised for the client’s convenience?
Musk is fascinating for the Rationalists ideasets, as he clearly is really inspired by Rationalism (and follows a few of them, ssc iirc). But he also so mid and bland that he draws the Rationalists ideaset down with him. If you heard him talk about space colonization (esp the argument he had with Bezos, who is more of a O’Neill Cylinder guy which iirc caused one of those weird dismissive Musk reactions (dismisses it as dumb without any good argument (if there is one at all)) which people mistake for genius), simulation theory, AI and esp AI safety (ow to see the LW reactions when Musk said ‘we are just going to make the AGI safe by building in safety’, etc.
It is like as a metal fan you hear a big celebrity is into heavy metal, but turns out all he knows is Metallica. A politician who claims he is into warhammer, but all he has is a few tactical ultramarine squads.
It is a bit of a pattern, there in something dumb, a new even more popular thing or person appears which sucks in all the attention and then draws all the ideas down by being even worse. Which causes people to look more clearly into the first thing and see how bad it is by association. For example cryptocurrencies and NFTs, the obvious uselessness and scammyness of NFTs revealed the similar qualities in the cryptocurrencies space. But also just every culture war Vox Day parasitically attaches himself too (He does this a lot, any rightwing thing that becomes a bit popular he leeches himself onto, often makes a worse related movement (the sad vs angry puppies for example) and then drags it all down by being an open sexist/white nationalist/all out horrible dumb person who thinks he is smarter than he is.
Sorry this turned into a bit of a rant.
E: also wow themotte has gotten a lot worse when it went offsite. Jesus some of the comments in that thread. I feel bad for TWG.
not playing it, you understand
or is there some weird-ass chess proxy-fixation among the rats that I have thus far been blessedly unaware of?
Gonna take a shot in the dark and say the fixation’s from viewing chess more as an IQ showcase than as a game.
probably but it isn’t one I’ve come across (in this form), thus my surprise
also, just ito “things to pick by which to point out dirtrag as a Shining Beacon”, it’s pretty fucking out there
They’re all in for Chess as a sine qua non metric for intelligence if you spend enough time staring into the pit. Better to call it g than IQ tbh. Not only does it (chess) have the lick of rigour, it has the nerd cultural cachet and the ludicrous white masculinity complex.
I assume any publication that has ever run anything by Andy Ngo is absolute trash garbage.
my honest reacton:
Judit Polgár
Sadly, I know where this goes, they will just point out she is Jewish and point to that. (I think SSC even did that).
Wishful thinking on my part to think their sexism/eugenics posting was based on ignorance instead of deliberately being massive piles of shit. Don’t let them know Iceland has the highest number of GMs/pop or else we’ll get a 10,000 page essay about how proximity to volcanoes gives + 20 IQ points.
In that case, selling sulphur supplements for drinking water may turn out profitable
Careful, that might cause the humanbiodiversity posters to react and draw lines on maps! (Is that still a thing? I can’t recall seeing much HBD posters anymore, likely my own bubble of course).
Indeed. He did a post entirely about the family being Ashkenazi Jews. You’re never going to guess the premise of the post!
Was it about how feminism is bad.
No wait sorry, I’m misrepresenting his position.
Was it about how only 30% of feminists are sane and the rest are insane?
Or at least not provably not insane.
Yes thanks, didn’t want to dreg up the full quote.
The National Socialist party of Germany, Hitler’s party focused on advancing German rights and the hone of, among other things, the best outfits I’ve seen of a political party
The list of diatribes about forum drama that are interesting and edifying for the outsider is not long, and this one is not on it.
Ok folks, serious question. I know rats love excessively long word salad stream-of-unconsciousness essays. I understand how somehow can be so high on their own farts that they think this is an acceptable way of presenting their “thoughts”. But…
There’s no way rats actually read those longforms, right? Like, no one has enough time on their hands to read and engage with something of this length and this boring on a day-to-day basis, right? Same goes for those LessWrong posts, they must be banking on others not reading through the 10,000 words of nonsense, right?
Someone has to post the Elizabeth Sandifer essay and I guess it’s my turn:
I should note that I didn’t ghostwrite that one either
They’re going to end up cheating and using AI to summarize rat verbiage instead of reading it. And THAT is what will piss off the future AI god.
unironically, their culture has a better use case for it than the rest of earth does. they’re not even losing informational value in the compression and nonsense-izing since there isn’t any to start with
The interminable length has got to have started out as a gullibility filter before ending up as an unspoken imperative to be taken seriously in those circles, isn’t HPATMOR like a million billion chapters as well?
Siskind for sure keeps his wildest quiet-part-out-loud takes until the last possible minute of his posts, when he does decide to surface them.
If you are a normal, decent, well-socialized human being, you probably have not heard about Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality. Actually explaining what this thing is will have to happen in several different stages. But I should start by telling you this re-write of the first Harry Potter book is around 660,000 words long.
The entire Lord of the Rings series, including The Hobbit, comes in at a little less than 580,000 words.
The audiobook is 67 hours long.
In my more innocent college days, there was a group of people doing a reading of it in the dorm lounge laughing their asses off. Ong I thought it was a hyper self-aware satire that was making fun of internet “umm ackshully” / iamverysmart posters. There’s no way someone earnestly spent their time writing over half a million words on a self-insert Harry Potter fanfic as some form of mental masturbation… right?
Yud, it’s not too late to say sike bro.
it’s not too late to say sike
citation needed ;p
Homo sapiens! What an inventive, invincible species. It’s only a few million years since they crawled up out of the mud and learned to walk. Puny, defenceless bipeds! They’ve survived flood, famine and plague. They’ve survived cosmic wars and holocausts. And now, here they are, out among the stars, waiting to begin a new life! Ready to out-sit eternity. They’re indomitable.
What a piece of work is a man! how noble in reason! how infinite in faculty! in form and moving how express and admirable! in action how like an angel! in apprehension how like a god! the beauty of the world! the paragon of animals!
There’s no way someone earnestly spent their time writing over half a million words on a self-insert Harry Potter fanfic as some form of mental masturbation… right?
Even just saying it was mescaline would help it make more sense.
The interminable length has got to have started out as a gullibility filter before ending up as an unspoken imperative to be taken seriously in those circles
Only in these circles could an article that AI can read to you in an hour and forty-eight minutes be clickbait for the paywalled “companion piece.”
By and large no. Read the comments under anything on LessWrong, for example, and it’s trivial to pick out the vast majority of nominally substantive posts lighting on the one thing that got them mad, just like you and I, in amidst a chorus of nothing remarks equivalent to “so brave, so powerful”. They’re just people man, after all.
Notice that the disagreements people get into by and large evolve the same way as reddit fights - everybody’s just waiting for their turn to nitpick some sentence or other that (nominally) deserves a fair, contextual, interpretation it’ll never receive.
Notice that the disagreements people get into by and large evolve the same way as reddit fights - everybody’s just waiting for their turn to nitpick some sentence or other that (nominally) deserves a fair, contextual, interpretation it’ll never receive.
Of course, as there is no other way to do this with posts of this length. If you want to dismantle an average SSC post you will need to explain so much more things than he already does so it blossoms into small novel territory. Any I gish nobody has the time or attention span for that.
A novel which could often be abridged by saying:
“look at this incredibly offended dork” ;)
Well that’s a lot of words. It’s like someone turned a dispute over editing a page into an biography of the editor. It’s that kind if mountain out of a molehill business that has led to me no longer editing Wikipedia.
And the bit if the article that struck home:
He had started out on the internet 20 years before as a passionate partisan for his new tribe and its potential to transform the world. In the intervening decades, though, his optimism had waned.
It’s not an uncommon trajectory, it’s one I’ve been on myself, becoming disillusioned by social media. And yet, the Fediverse has given me new hope and enthusiasm.
Trace started his research on the site for banned Wikipedia cranks. I don’t know if he can presently edit Wikipedia, but he writes like someone who can’t.
It definitely reads like a frustrated editor dramatising petty disputes for a wider audience, who I very much doubt is interested in Wikipedia minutiae. It doesn’t explain why it has to be quite that long - I managed to finish reading it but it took a few goes to slog my way to the finish.
why it has to be quite that long
Welcome to the rationalist-sphere.
I am well acquainted with this genre of article and I ain’t reading all that. Not bothering to be involved with this example was the obviously correct decision, even if Trace kept nagging after I’d already said “no thank you” (that famous rationalist grasp of consent).
This in the companion article caught my eye:
While I am not personally a rationalist,
Trace, I have some unfortunate news for you.
I regret to inform you that Trace is hate-reading awful.systems too & has posted this comment on their Twitter.
You’d think these people would have learned by now that there’s no upside in them spending their precious time on this earth obsessing over why a group of people don’t like them, but nevertheless here they are: drawn like moths to the flame.
lmaou bruv, great to know these clowns are both coping & seething
There would be an upside if they could magically acquire some self-awareness, and reflect on why a whole group thinks their ideas are idiotic. Alas,
must be woke mind virus, we don’t even acknowledge race and iq, smdh
Yeah see also his denouncement of Roko’s Basilisk (ctrl-f the page), we know it wasn’t that important, the funny part was that it was a dumb rehash of Pascals wager, and that at the time Yud took is very seriously.
Wood also doesn’t seem to link to the actual Rationalwiki article which also makes clear that Yud doesn’t really believe in it (probably). It also mentions just how few (but above the 5% lizardman constant, so cause for concern, if they took their own ideas and MH seriously) people were worried about it. And every now and then you do find a person online who does take the idea seriously and worries about it, which is a bit of a concern. So oddly they should take it more seriously but only because it wrecks a small percentage of minds.
It is weird to not mention Yuds freakout:
Listen to me very closely, you idiot.
YOU DO NOT THINK IN SUFFICIENT DETAIL ABOUT SUPERINTELLIGENCES CONSIDERING WHETHER OR NOT TO BLACKMAIL YOU. THAT IS THE ONLY POSSIBLE THING WHICH GIVES THEM A MOTIVE TO FOLLOW THROUGH ON THE BLACKMAIL.
There’s an obvious equilibrium to this problem where you engage in all positive acausal trades and ignore all attempts at acausal blackmail. Until we have a better worked-out version of TDT and we can prove that formally, it should just be OBVIOUS that you DO NOT THINK ABOUT DISTANT BLACKMAILERS in SUFFICIENT DETAIL that they have a motive toACTUALLY[sic] BLACKMAIL YOU.
And pretend this was just a blip and nothing more. Mf’er acted like he was in Stross novel.
(Also after not clearly sharing the information about Roko’s Basilisks history, and we sneer at it, I came across this sentence: “then cites his pet article on Roko’s Basilisk directly while giggling about how mad it made Yudkowsky fans.” lol, no selfawareness there wood).
Roko’s basilisk is one of my favorite things because of the combination of how stupid it is and also how utterly panicked they all were. Desperately imagining magical communication across time and space with their dumb paperclip demon and panicking.
Why don’t they just believe in a deity if they want one so bad?
It’s funny because you will hear over and over again from them online, in almost rank-and-file prose, about how it was all a big storm in the collective teacup, and then some time later run across yet another story of a real life non-anonymous person who was freaked the fuck out for some good period of time, as were some large portion of their friends
And it still randomly freaks people out to this day, it clearly isn’t a storm in a teacup for some people. And it is quite easily countered, but that also adds some ideas which counter the whole FOOM bs, so it is clear why they rather all push this under the rug, no matter the mental health cost of any Rationalists or would be Rationalists.
HOW does he seriously use the phrase ‘acausal blackmail’. I assumed the majority of word combinations for ‘acausal’ + noun were just jokes from people on here but apparently not.
Ikr, literally a plot point from Charles Stross Singularity Sky (2003) series and they take it seriously. (Which fits a pattern, CW: sexual abuse
spoiler
Yuds math pets thing also has a similarity to the horrible sadist torture scene in the last rifter series book (2004) in which a woman gets horribly abused more if she answers question wrong. (with the added plot twist that the torturer isn’t as smart as he thinks he is and is partially wrong about the questions he ‘rewards’ (which could be some 4d chess move but doubtful)). Anyway, not the greatest read. Esp 2 decades later, when a lot of the weird science fiction terms used in the books have taken a very alt-right/dark enlightenment turn (which makes me wonder if they stole that).
)
dear me. doesn’t he know that the actual art requires hate-skimming at most?
I regret to inform you that Trace is hate-reading awful.systems too & has posted this comment on their Twitter.
Surely out of the interest of Rational Fair And Balancedness, he will link back to this place in his article. Surely, he has already done so before I mentioned this.
Looked at his twitter. Dude seems to be or have been on a palpable adrenaline high at a time when it might have been less deranged to step away from the keyboard and go for a walk. I get it, but those are some weird-ass posts.
I regret to inform you that Trace is hate-reading awful.systems too & has posted this comment on their Twitter.
Their writing is so boring I can’t even summon up the enthusiasm to make a “senpai has noticed us” joke.
So now Steve Sailer has shown up in this essay’s comments, complaining about how Wikipedia has been unfairly stifling scientific racism.
Birds of a feather and all that, I guess.
For the people who don’t know who that is Wikipedia and here is a reliable site.
He is a very frequent commenter in the whole of the LW/Rationalist sphere. iirc he sometimes gets banned when he lets the mask slip a bit too much, but they always let him back in.
Wonder if Marxbro ever got unbanned. Rip you damn dirty commie, do miss seeing your obsessive monofocus posts pop up from time to time.
Can’t miss an opportunity to make it about himself I guess
What an ass
I’m starting to think that some writing classes would really help the EA/LR crowd.
no, no, it’s fine. the less readable they are, the better.
LOL he’s gotten pissed
https://www.themotte.org/post/1070/culture-war-roundup-for-the-week/227907?context=8#context
fabricating ties between LessWrong and neoreaction
Lmao
Trace seems a bit… emotional. You ok, Trace?
lol these people are so much more vicious than people here holy shit. i can’t even discern what their problem is. babe please stop hanging out with fascists.
I think they’re actually being pretty clear, it’s just hard to accept they’re being this baldfaced about it: they hate that he’s gay, they hate that he’s a furry, but above all they hate hate hate hate that he’s not quite as fashy as they are
Right! You’d think they’d want to actually try to look like rationalists, put the petty bigotry aside and bask in the race-realist camaraderie. But no, being a gay truly is beyond the pale.
Being on themotte (or equivalent places) is also so bad for your long term mental health.
In addition to the lack of fascism, I think that the attitude towards shitposting here creates a much healthier social environment. Like, your shitpost may serve to inspire a serious comment but you’re also allowed to just spout off because you think it’s funny or you need to get a emotional response out of your body or whatever.
I’ve seen people say that /uj is essential to keeping communities healthy. If you only allow ‘reasonable discussion’, you allow all kinds of awful people in as long as they’re not too obvious, while regular people get reprimanded for responding to it. But if you only allow shitposting and no genuine discussion, it’s going to become genuine whether you want it to or not (see: Gamers Rise Up or similar)
On here, you can see people write earnestly on a bunch of different topics, but you can also see them just tell a promptfan “you can’t get it up unless the fingers are wrong, can you” and ban them. It’s great
why would anyone put all these cortisol-addicted chuds in one place and what keeps them coming back there
cortisol-addicted chuds
what keeps them coming back
you have answered your own question
I wish I could focus on things I want to do as well as this person can focus on whatever this is.
While I’ve heard of them, I’ve never even accidentally gone to the motte before (despite vaguely following along rat/rat-adjacent/sneer-at-rat spaces for years) and I regret clicking on this link. What is this, rat-4chan?
Themotte is a spinoff from the slatestarcodex subreddit, they used to have a culture war thread every week, which always filled up with (far) right culture war grievances which they then all pretended to talk neutral about. (The effect was mostly that peoples overton window was drawn right). Eventually the stink of it got so bad that Scott Alexander had to take action (he wrote slatestarcodex before he sold out and now runs a substack), so he told them with his semi blessing to go make their own subreddit.
Which was pretty bad, a place where you could said anything (esp rightwing) as long as you used enough words to explain it. (the 14 words did sneak at times, and I saw (sadly didn’t archive it) openly neo-nazi homesteaders try to recruit there. So a lot of ‘themotte people didn’t think they were on the same side as the far right, but the far right certainly did think that’). Etc etc. Eventually the reddit admins got more and more annoyed with the place, and (this is a bit speculative on my part) after somebody got banned(*) for explaining the triple parenthesis dogwhistle by the admins they freaked out and made their own site.
*: A thing I noticed at the time, which themotte people didn’t this guy who got banned was from Germany, which has a little bit stronger rules re antisemitism so the admins banning them for that wouldn’t surprise me, esp if it was automated. And for the people who don’t know, on reddit every forum has mods who come from the forum(called a subreddit), and the site itself has admins, so that is why there is sometimes some moderation conflict. The mods were afraid the admins were about to ban the subreddit, which would destroy all the past content, so they made a new site.
TL;DR:
What is this, rat-4chan?
Yes
so that makes r/themotte rationalist /pol/ and themotte site rationalist 8chan
The Singularity (of hating that we know what those words mean) Is Near
On one hand, being here means that I’ve had to learn to parse this description in order to understand what we’re talking about. On the other hand now that I have this cursed knowledge I’m pretty sure my presence here is necessary for my continued mental health, such as it is.
This must be how people end up in one of those outer-god-summoning cults.
TracingWoodgrains may be of a different quantity than David Gerard, but he’s proven he isn’t of a different type.
lol quality sneer. (and of course themotte would react like this, as they consider TWG a centrist at best and often a leftwinger, see the comments upstream)
we’re all looking for the guy who dredged up a historical feud
Some of the most obnoxious moments here are when someone dredges up a historical feud and the peanut gallery thinks it’s productive to opine at length on the object level of that feud.
zoom and enhance
object level
pull back, split screen
While I am not personally a rationalist,
Uh-huh.
Wow… I took a look at that link before reading the comments/explanations here, and I was briefly confused why they were hating on him so much, before I realized he isn’t radical right wing enough for them.
Eh, you’re a gay furry ex-Mormon (which is like a triple strike against you in my book) but I still like you well enough.
It is almost sad seeing TWG trying to appeal to these people that fundamentally hate him… except he could just admit themotte is a cesspit and abandon it. But that would involve admitting that sneerclub (and David Gerard specifically) was right about the sort of people that lurked around SCC and later concentrated within themotte, so I think he’s going to keep making himself suffer.
TW knows about the propaganda war, but has very different objectives to you. Much harder to balance ones too: he needs enough Progress for surrogate gaybies, but not too much that white gay guys can’t get the good lawyer jobs.
Wow, I feel really gross agreeing with a motte poster, but they’ve called out TWG pretty effectively. TWG at least knows he needs things progressive enough he doesn’t end up against the wall for being gay, ex-Mormon and furry (as he describes himself), yet he wants to flirt with the alt-right!
and in case I was in danger of forgetting what the motte really is…
Yes, we’ve all thrown our hat in the ring in different ways. I chose to have children, be a father and a husband, live an honest industrious life as an example to my offspring, and attempt to preserve my way of life through them.
sure buddy, you just need to “secure the future for your people and your children”… Yeah I know the rest of the words that go in that slogan.
I’ve never actually looked at themotte before and jesus. the only difference between this site and the absolute nastiest Nazi communities I’ve seen is that these guys aren’t shoehorning slurs and mentions of the day of the rope into every post
The guano-hole is dark, but full of bat-diamonds. Just presenting an excerpt of the reply chain, for the reader’s pleasure:
Reply A, “WhiningCoil”:
Yes, we’ve all thrown our hat in the ring in different ways. I chose to have children, be a father and a husband, live an honest industrious life as an example to my offspring, and attempt to preserve my way of life through them.
You contributed to a miasma of chaos around the state violating my parental rights to confiscate my children’s reproductive capacity. You added one more talking point to the list I have to defeat when I’m arguing with my in-laws about the very real, documented shit our local school districts are doing that they’ve been MSNBC’ed about.
I wouldn’t pat yourself on the back too hard. Although I suppose if you get your way, your impact on society may yet outlive mine, though I suspect my wife wouldn’t survive the shock of it.
The fucking hubris to call that “Truth seeking” and play the victim.
Reply to A:
To WhiningCoil, we’re all in a propaganda war whose outcome is critical. To you, it’s just a game of sorts. Not a life-or-death conflict whose outcome determines whether normies return to functional normality, or end up in cultural-revolution tier insanity.
I get why he’s pissed at you, and I get why you as a young gay furry aren’t overly concerned with the possible normalisation of cultral-revolution tier social insanity.
Like most young people, you probably believe, deep down that you’re immortal and it’ll all work out.
Have you yet been forced to perform a maoist style self-criticism session IRL where you admit to your sin of being white-ish and promise to do better ? I guess not.
I chose to have children, be a father and a husband, live an honest industrious life as an example to my offspring, and attempt to preserve my way of life through them.
Wow, just a few words off the 14 words.
I find it kind of irritating how someone that doesn’t familiarize themselves with white supremacists rhetoric and methods might manage to view that phrase innocuously. But it really isn’t that hard to see through the bullshit once you’ve familiarized themselves with the most basic dog whistles and slogans.
You contributed to a miasma of chaos around the state violating my parental rights to confiscate my children’s reproductive capacity.
Depending on how you parse this sentence, the author could be asserting a parental right to confiscate their children’s reproductive capacity which is unbelievably unintentionally poetic.
Ok so this comment made me realise I had incorrectly parsed these comments. They are far, far worse than what I thought they were saying originally. Thanks!
I’m not sure what the second paragraph in reply A is referring to but my gut says it’s going to make me deeply sad as someone who has even the tiniest amount of empathy for trans kids.
@YourNetworkIsHaunted @swlabr As a parent myself I understand that my kids are not in fact my personal property but human beings in their own right who are capable of independent thought. That’s never struck me as being a particularly controversial point of view, but then I look at these creepy fuckers with their identically dressed kids smiling for the camera because they’ll get a beating later if they don’t and that just makes me shudder.
I’d say you instincts are correct and I too will dare not venture down that path.
I’m not sure what the second paragraph in reply A is referring to
To understand themotte you need to realize these are rightwingers/centrists (according to them) who are just marinating constantly in the culture war. About half of the posters there have their brains basically turned into rotten soup and they think that everything is an attack on ‘their way of life’/genes.
No idea why people stay there when every other comment is some weird hateful argumentative piece of shit.
Ah, I see TWG made the rookie mistake of thinking they could endear themselves to internet bigots by carrying water for them. ^Also, fuck this nazi infested shithole. Absolute eye bleach.
that tracingwoodgrains dude is admin at themotte, that’s a few steps above just carrying water
Open post in private browser window, click profile… Oh, wow, he is.
As for carving out my own little space online where dissent is purged, everyone from Steve Sailer to Zero HP Lovecraft to BAP follows me on Twitter, where I openly and emphatically argue against them.
Dude. Not healthy.
I feel like I should quote some proverb about not mud-wrestling a pig or debating a creationist. This is like going out of your way to make the Nazis feel at home in your neighborhood bar.
themotte assigns user ID, which i suspect are just sequential integers. TW is 103, some other users have their user IDs in low 1000s (3000-5000). he’s there for a long time
I had noticed the user ID and figured that they were sequentially-assigned integers, but I hadn’t bothered to check what the numbers had gotten up to. I’m seeing a 930, an 1175, a 2327… So, yeah.
Yes, yes, civility violations and all that. Mods, warn me as you will and ban me if you must
The Nathan Hale of Reddit.
What happens when your spurned ex is a devoted archivist, a Wikipedia administrator, and perhaps the most online man the world has ever known?
I already thought he was cool you don’t have to sell me on it.
NGL the AI generated image make DG look cool AF
Didn’t he violate Wikipedias rules though
hey buddy, uh, you gonna post any sneers in this here SneerClub thread you’ve started?
previously, presently (this thread). also:
I regret to inform you that Trace is hate-reading awful.systems
I lack any concrete evidence, but wouldn’t it just be fucking hilarious
still hasn’t really posted any sneers :<
although they seem to be really on the ball with posted TWG updates!
it’s a highly sneerable article, i’m sure he has something to sneer about it
wut
Show me a long-time English Wikipedia editor who hasn’t broken the rules. Since WP is editable text and most of us have permission to alter most pages, rule violations aren’t set in stone and don’t have to be punished harshly; often, it’s good enough to be told that what you did was wrong and that your edits will be reverted.
NSFW: When you bring this sort of argument to the table, you’re making it obvious that you’ve never been a Wikipedian. That’s not a bad thing, but it does mean that you’re going to get talked down to; even if your question was in good faith, you could have answered it yourself by lurking amongst the culture being critiqued.
If we’re framing this as a breakup, david won the breakup.
This is going to be a banger, I can feel it.
lol @ r/subredditdrama
Gotta love how the SRD thread has more comments and updoots than the original.
Reddit can be really hit or miss, but I’m glad subredditdrama and /r/wikipedia aren’t buying TWG’s bullshit. Well, some of the /r/wikipedia assume TWG is merely butthurt over losing edit wars as opposed to a more advanced agenda, but that is fair of them.
I’m noticing that people who criticize him on that subreddit are being downvoted, while he’s being upvoted.
I wouldn’t be surprised if, as part of his prodigious self-promotion of this overlong and tendentious screed, he’s steered some of his more sympathetic followers to some of these forums.
It occurs to me that, intentionally or not, he’s probably steering TESCREAL types to Wikipedia itself as well. I wouldn’t be surprised if accounts were coming out of the woodwork to post multi-kiloword screeds about Wikipedia being soooo unfairrrr…
as, indeed, has started to happen https://xcancel.com/thezahima/status/1811495742894408065
literal brigading
hopefully this gets shut down hard at all the places they try to fuck with. we’ve already had 2 cases too many of jonringer this year
Trace RTs someone hoping aloud that his nonsense gets laundered by an RS, then breathlessly reports on his literal transparent brigade getting unbanned using a very strained appeal to WP:AGF, so I am starting to get a picture of his end-goal.
(looks up meaning of WP:AGF)
… Yeah, that site is probably not the right hobby for me.
(looks up the LessWrong discussion page)
My God, it’s full of smeg
it’s good the rats can’t help themselves but to brag about what they’re doing – in at least three different public places.
Annoying that TWG is also doing the slimy thing which is so common in internet trolling nowadays. The text says ‘im not a reliable source’ the subtext (or well with this retweet, text) says ‘make my post a reliable source and attack David’.
(What makes this even worse is that the weird far rightwingers from themotte see all leftwingers as behaving like this, and the to them super leftwing TWG is feeding into their stereotypes. Well done on feeding the far right propaganda machine).
they are
My condolences.
He is transparently trying very very hard to start a gamergate and it’s pathetic.
It’s like these people are enforcing a facade of polite tone and measuredness as a way to launder literal intellectual terrorism! Dang!
Saw somebody on r/ssc go ‘why do they always focus on roko’s basilisk and never any of the more important things like Yuds lack of qualifications or academic rigor’ and saw them also lol that we here apparently didn’t want to spend the 2hs to read it (and well that woulds also require 4h+ to then respond about all the various weird inaccuracies). Which is was an amusing few posts. Yeah, we don’t have the energy/desire to read all those posts, but neither do you as Yuds lack of qualifications etc comes up quite often.
They want sneers about Yud’s lack of qualifications? Fine:
Noncy prig who never went to high school founded a cult for people who can’t leave it behind! How’s about that, eh?
Yeah mentioned it does come up quite often, but rokos basilisk just is funnier.
E: flannyo (used to post in sneerclub) is in that thread and actually arguing with people and pushing back on the post a bit. Which isn’t going super badly compared to if you tried something like that on themotte vs r/ssc.
Remember Oswald Mosley
(specifically the bit where he and his kept getting facepunched, along with their little gatherings disrupted and made extremely unpopular for establishments to host)
His replies have gone up in upvotes substantially since yesterday, so it looks like a bit of light brigading is going on.
every accusation is a confession
Huh. OK, so I boiled away more of my precious time on this plane of reality chasing links and reading old Wikipedia arguments instead of doing something healthy, like discovering a new genre of porn. Anyway, one of TW’s complaints is that “outlets like PinkNews […] are treated as reliable despite long histories of misconduct”. He points to a discussion thread where PinkNews was supposedly deemed to be terrible, horrible, no good and very bad despite David Gerard saying it was basically fine. But the analysis proving that PinkNews is terrible, horrible, etc., is itself weirdly bad. I mean, take a look at this:
Another example of a dodgy source is at is [11]. where the claim “Queer-coding has affected many fictional villains. These evil characters are generally either shown as flamboyant and overly dramatic, like Disney characters Scar and Hades, or written as having a deep fixation on the main character, like Jafar, Kim Possible villain Shego and Catra from She-Ra and the Princesses of Power. In the past few decades, Disney fans have seen Governor Ratcliffe and Professor Ratigan—as well as Scar, Jafar and Hades—being portrayed as queer characters.” The source for this claim? A Twitter tweet by “Jay, a self-described ‘transmasc enby’ who uses they/he pronouns”.
But the story doesn’t actually use that “Twitter tweet” as the source. It just springboards from a viral tweet to talking about the larger picture. The tweet didn’t say any of the specifics that PinkNews supposedly sourced to it. And the claim that Disney villains have been queer-coded is … not exactly shocking. I mean, just look up any of the authors that James Somerton plagiarized.
Or consider this article,[12] with the breathless headline “Star Trek: Picard season finale sees iconic character finally come out as queer, inspiring a million new fan fictions. The Star Trek: Picard season finale has confirmed a same-sex romance for iconic character Seven of Nine, and fans are thrilled.” The evidence? Two characters holding hands. In a series that already had more than one openly gay couple and thus no real reason to be ambiguous.
Well, actually, Star Trek: Picard did not “already” have “more than one openly gay couple”. Star Trek: Discovery had one, and the Kelvin timeline movies had a blink-and-you’ll-miss-it implication of one. The PinkNews article didn’t just go aflutter over two characters holding hands, but also pointed to an interview with showrunner Michael Chabon:
There are hints that both Seven and Raffi are bisexual.
Oh yes. […] With a character like Raffi, to the extend we imagined her history in a fair amount of detail, her history included all kinds of sexual partners. There’s a father of her child, but that was far from her only sexual or life partner. She’s had relationships with all kind of people. If it was ever to come up, it was always going to be organic. […] Same thing with Seven of Nine, having to catch up after such along absence from the human race. If you think about that, it almost seems unnatural that she wouldn’t’ have had partners of other genders. It seems clear she would have. So even if we didn’t see that on Voyager, years have passed. In that time, she’s continued to explore the spectrum of human relationships in a broader way. So in our show, there are echos and implications of that.
And it’s not like the article was actually wrong, was it? Jeri Ryan said that Seven is “canonically bi”, and the Seven/Raffi romance went on to become a whole thing.
I won’t go to bat for PinkNews being good, but this investigation of what’s wrong with it is itself irritatingly flawed and superficial.
well, what gives. who could’ve expected that tracing woodbins is a liar, and a scoundrel.
I wonder why they take issue specifically with articles about LGBTQ+, has to be a complete coincidence and in no way a reflection of their bigotry, huh
Winning sentences of the day so far:
Conservapedia is 100% true and correct. Evidence: https://www.conservapedia.com/Garfield_(comic_strip)
Whoever wrote that deffo wants to fuck Nermal.
He tells on himself by saying “Gerard” vs “Scott” and “David Gerard” vs “Scott Alexander”. What’s really pathetic is that he thinks politics on Wikipedia is about left vs right or authoritarians vs anarchists. Somebody should let him know that words are faith, not works.
Took me like five minutes of reading to realize this was neant to be a hit piece and not praise.
Depends, I guess. After reading (well, skimming, to be honest) it, I love David even more. <3
IKR like good job making @dgerard look like King Mob from the Invisibles in your header image.
If the article was about me I’d be making Colin Robinson feeding noises all the way through.
edit: Obligatory only 1 hour 43 minutes of reading to go then
“This guy vets sources and forces people to cite only the reliable ones. This is instead of discussing individual articles, which would allow the same fucking bigots to waste everyone’s time with the same fucking arguments over and over and over.”
Oh, sounds like a lot of effort to keep things usable.
“Grrrrrr.”
Wait, what?
imagine being this butthurt
