No one wants to admit they want that stuff in a survey but those are always super popular
I enjoy well-done romance in games. It’s just a taste thing.
What is the flavor of romance?
Salty milk and coins.
Does that exist?
Mass Effect did it quite well (at least some of them like Tali), although with a touch of cringe
And The Witcher obviously
And of course some story games like Life Is Strange, but they’re character-focused so it makes sense
I still miss Judy from Cyberpunk 2077 so yeah…
What’s your fave?
Liara
I’ve played so many it is hard to have a favorite. I like when different games try to incorporate romance, but I still prefer visual novels. I have played so many where you are a guy romancing women (these usually are bad quality and an excuse to see sex, I am fine with sex but at least emphasize the romance) but have been getting into otome games where you are a woman romancing guys. There are still bad tropes in some of these games, like noncon (I only do consensual). There are also queer games like Dream Daddy I enjoyed.
For non-VN I would say I liked Bioware’s games, Stardew Valley, Harvest Moon games, Story of Seasons games, Rune Factory games, Persona games, Divinity Original Sin 2, Baldurs Gate 3 (haven’t beaten yet, seems promising), Cyberpunk 2077 (Judy), Life is Strange, and Obsidian/Bethesda (sorta).
Nice to see a shout-out for DOS2. I liked that it leaned into its sex scenes when called for. Too many M-rated games are still afraid to go there with it. I also feel like it’s a bit more earned when it takes a while to develop, or as is often the case, the setting is so oppressive that it puts romance firmly in the background. Mass Effect 3 was great about this.
Been saying this for a long time now. Romance in video games is about as batshit-cringy as it gets and is a tremendous waste of time that could have been used to add meaningful content or fix stability issues/bugs instead.
Just because you really enjoy golf doesn’t mean you want every movie to have a half-assed awkward golf game stuffed into it.
Oh my god, yes, this! So much this! We all know what teens want, and it’s Olympic curling and nothing else.
It’s not just games, it’s TV and movies too.
Cramming sex into everything made sense when we weren’t constantly 5 seconds away from being able to see pretty much any kind of porn someone could imagine.
Now tho, that stuff isn’t a reason to watch a show. If you just cared about that, you’d watch the clip online
lol are you equating romance in media to porn
Like do you watch the x files and whip out some porn every time the two mains chars have romantic tension
Yeah, isn’t rule 34 made for that?
Personally I try to get through the whole episode of family guy before I man handle my ham candle
… Have you not heard of Tumblr? DeviantArt?
Gooning or swooning to shipping fanfiction and fan made eroge / nsfw art has been a huge component of many fandoms, of all kinds, for at least two decades.
The reaction from a whole lot of more modern media is to just capture a lot more of that in the official media itself.
In anime in particular, this is called ‘fan-service.’
Porn is absolutely a giant competitor in the ‘digital media consumption / attention’ market, and it completely makes sense that for people who believe in making every digital media product with as broad an appeal as possible, that there’s been a trend toward an analog of fan-service outside of anime.
Maybe I’m too cooked right now to give this reply the attention it deserves but this was a trip.
Like did my original comment give you the impression that I didn’t know people rule 34 every goddamn thing possible?
Maybe I’m really old but you suggesting that anime is the reason we stuff sex into shit is just so funny to me. I once heard someone say “every generation is the first generation to think they invented sex.”
The comment I replied to was like why romance if porn exist which was also funny
Anyways if I misread your comment then my bad it’s been a day
Like did my original comment give you the impression that I didn’t know people rule 34 every goddamn thing possible?
In the context of the reply you were replying to, basically yes.
I read what you said as hyperbolic, but generally dismissive of the idea that characters in media have sex appeal and/or vicarious romance appeal, often generally, and often to such an extent that it drives people to make and share their own erotic spin offs.
I think it is silly to not realize how much a popularity of a show these days can be reinforced and strengthened by appealing to the fanfic crowd, to not realize that many network execs have realized that they have a better shot at cultivating a… well, cult like fanbase, if they make their show in a way that appeals to that kind of crowd.
Maybe I’m really old but you suggesting that anime is the reason we stuff sex into shit is just so funny to me. I once heard someone say “every generation is the first generation to think they invented sex.”
I didn’t suggest anime was the reason we stuff sex shit into more western media for more broad audiences.
I said that doing that, stuffing overtly sexual and will-they-won’t-they, romantic tension type material into media, is called ‘fan-service’ within the realm of anime, and an analagous or similar thing is happening outside of anime.
The comment I replied to was like why romance if porn exist which was also funny
I think the unstated thing that I could have said, but did not, because I assumed it was common knowledge, would basically be:
For quite a long time, men have been the main consumers of video and still image pornography.
And women have been the primary consumers of erotic novels, in the US at least.
The American media approach to attempting to make the viewer feel aroused thus differs based on the sex they are appealing to:
Straight men, as a market demo, generally go for visual sex appeal and sex acts, overt or covert lewd gestures, tight fitting or revealing clothes etc.
Straight women, as a market demo, generally go for on screen romance, for the build up to and moments of dramatic sexual tension, will they won’t they scenarios, the context around a relationship that builds up to the actual sex, etc.
In general, for men, sex appeal is direct, physical, literal, and for women, it is more cerebral, more about mental framing and constructing scenarios that feature, or could potentially feature wish fulfilment, being desired by a person with preferred character traits, etc.
These are of course not absolute truths with no exceptions, there are many exceptions, and yes I am aware that creating the media environment in this way reinforces the norms themselves.
Nonetheless, this is still quite true in general, in aggregate, when you run the numbers.
So… thats why it makes sense to conflate sex and romance from the perspective of a media exec designing a show.
Sex sells, you just package it differently if you’re appealing to men or women.
To most media execs:
Men want the sex.
Women want the story about why the sex is happening.
I read what you said as hyperbolic, but generally dismissive of the idea that characters in media have sex appeal and/or vicarious romance appeal,
Of course I was being hyperbolic…
often generally, and often to such an extent that it drives people to make and share their own erotic spin offs.
…but jfc you’re adding layers to this that no one else even mentioned and then building off of those layers to have your own weird anime rants
No shit sex sells - that was never the contention
The point of my original comment was poking fun of the vibes I got from the comment I replied to which felt like “there’s no need for sex or romance in media anymore when you can watch porn so easily”
Also, everyone plays golf differently and someone will watch a pro take a swing and so try it themselves, only to fail awkwardly and in public. The lessons to be learned are misconstrued as golfing lessons when in fact it’s just an exciting story about how hard that kind of shot really is. Folks don’t seem to understand that a story isn’t giving directions but advice.
When there isn’t a need, there isn’t a reason. And egregious golf is gross.
Who cares what teens want?
They don’t have any money.
Is that why no one cares what I want? Because I don’t have any money? 🤔
Money is the old economy. Teens have something that adults don’t have that is infinitely more valuable than money: attention. This is how, despite having no money, teen taste and culture is so over-represented today.
They also will become adults. So hook them now. They might also have access to their parents’ money.
I genuinely think that money is no longer the goal of the top economic echelon. Techniques for controlling how people spend money can be generalized into controlling all their behaviour; total power.
I as a video game enthusiast do not want my character to experience romance. It doesn’t happen in real life the way it is portrayed in media, and it’s fucking boring seeing it over and fucking over again. Gimme tragedy, gimme a problem I can solve, a mystery, or a war to fight. But romance, and sex, have not a damn place in those things. Developers of apparently every damn media have gotten it drilled into their heads that we want to read, watch, play thru, and otherwise experience their mental masturbation. Well I for one, don’t fucking want to experience it at all. Gimme a story, and if you can’t do it without pointless sex scenes then you don’t have a fuckin story, you have a story about fuckin.
I dunno. problems, mysteries, and war aren’t usually portrayed realistically in video games, either.
Did romantic feelings have any place in Max Payne 2?
Sometimes it’s fun
Well this is funny sex humor
Not romance
This is the same thing TV shows figured out ages ago: you give people a flirty relationship and it’s generally fun to watch. You turn that flirting into an actual relationship and it’s boring + usually some fan service where the authors of the show try to get their female coworkers as naked as they can be manipulated into getting. And then they always need to make that same female coworker get pregnant and force her to fake giving birth.
Tldr it doesn’t matter what the fans want, authors are fucking pervs.
That’s right “industry execs” — you just need to turn down the romance by 40% and the sex by 15%, add 50% more friendship and 25% more adventure, control for the desired level of political correctness, add just the right variety of behavioural feedback loops, and you’ll have a maximally profitable game.
maximally profitable game
See, it really is just an algorithm that can be nailed down perfectly, and I’ve got an entire floor of statisticians and market analysts that agree it’ll make me berjillions!!!1!!
Lpt: they’re also telling me more statisticians and market analysts will help boost my numbers too! Jackpot!
-an executive, somewhere, in nearly every corporate office
Yes daddy
What part of turn the romance down by 40% didn’t you understand?
It’s the Nuclear Gandhi bug all over again. By dialing down their romance by absolute 40%, you’ve gone through the floor and interger overflowed to 255%.
UwU
I really enjoyed my Shepard and Liara romance during the Mass Effect trilogy, but I don’t think it’s particularly well executed in most other games.
This feels like such a non issue because games and movies these days have basically zero sex appeal or romance
It was a pleasant surprise that you could romance people in BG3
And a major disappointment you couldn’t romance in Cyberpunk and the romance in Outer Worlds felt so half assed. Romance can be a great part of a game.
You can romance in Cyberpunk, but the romances have gender preferences. Judi and River will only romance women, Kerry and the other one I’ve never actually met will only romance men.
Really? Fair enough, I don’t recall there being any options to romance anyone when I played, but I must have just missed it. I remember the forced gay scene, which, like, fine, but I’m not gay, so it would have been cool to get at least one chance with a girl, lol, but it never seemed to come up no matter what I did with female companions in tow.
Panam is the other romancable character. If you do her entire side story (which is quite good) and choose the right options throughout, you’ll have the option to romance her near the end of the game. She’s only attracted to characters with a masculine body.
The romances in general are very easy to screw up. You lock yourself out of several right at character creation unfortunately. Here’s what you need for character creation to get each romance:
Judy: Feminine voice and body Kerry: Masculine voice and body River: Feminine body Panam: Masculine body
As long as you meet the requirements, you can romance 2 people in vanilla, though there’s something at the end of the game that requires you to pick one of them
You also need to do their side missions, but you meet each of them in the course of the main story. There’s also 4 romantic encounters that sadly don’t go anywhere serious.
You can get it on with Meredith Stout, the militech lady who threatens you near the start of the game. If you don’t insult her, you can get another mission from her in act 2. There’s also 3 encounters that can happen, but those are potential story spoilers
I really hate when game devs don’t make all characters opportunistically bisexual.
Remember when all those internet duds were mad that Dragon Age 2 was “sHoVinG tHe gAy aGeNdA dOwN oUr tHroAts!!!” because the NPCs would romance the PC regardless of gender? And they absolutely lost their shit that Anders might express interest and, if you’re not interested, you’d have to politely turn him down once?
Those are the worst sort of people and I frankly wish them ill.
Agreed. Give me my Judy, Panam, and River harem damn it!
It’s always been this way… Are people finally realizing that fan service is cringe?
This came up, I want to say last year? In regards to movies and TV shows as well.
Aha - 2023:
https://www.npr.org/2023/10/25/1208435267/sex-teens-tv-movies
“Looking for ‘nomance’: Study finds teens want less sex in their TV and movies”
That’s because OPs article is citing the second annual Teens and Screens report from the UCLA Center for Scholars and Storytellers. Your NPR article from 2023 is citing the first annual Teens and Screens report.
This is where I’ve found myself, too. It’s not that I am prudish or against the inclusion of sex scenes in shows and movies—I think some of them are pretty well done—but we’re at the point where it feels like a lot of media are just adding in sex scenes for the spectacle of it without it serving any particular purpose for narrative development or characterization.
but we’re at the point where it feels like a lot of media are just adding in sex scenes for the spectacle of it without it serving any particular purpose for narrative development or characterization.
This has been a thing in movies since they existed. A bit less common, but still there, in books and TV. It isn’t anything new, but at least it is becoming less common.
I mean, the Marvel stuff has all been gigantic and proves you don’t need sex scenes. In fact, the one Marvel movie with a sex scene (Eternals) did the worst.
I don’t think the mere existence of a popular franchise (made primarily for kids at that) which happens to lack sex scenes is related to the trend being acknowledged here, though.
A romance story is good if’s not half-assed and a game doesn’t depend on it. 16-bit RPG’s did it well.
SIGNALIS is a game about romance and I loved it, it is one of my favorite relatively recently released games.
Maybe you’re doing it wrong?
that’s only true because most of you motherfuckers do robotic gamified romances that don’t feel natural, heartfelt or interesting.
kids these days don’t want sex they want to be held as they curl up in a ball and cry
Hey, me too
Romance in video games is fun, yeah, but it’s usually just something extra. It’s rarely the main focus and I’m hard-pressed to really imagine how to make it the main focus without making a gooner game. Usually romance/sex is sort of the cherry on top of an otherwise good game.
