When I was six years old, my dad brought a computer home from work. It had Windows 3.1 on it. I had to learn how to use the DOS command prompt in order to play my favorite game, Q-bert. When I was a teenager, a new computer of middling quality could run north of $3000 from the Best Buy. But my friends introduced me to a catalog where I could buy the parts to assemble one from scratch. They let me borrow their copy of Windows 95 to install. Then we all had to learn how to use dial-up in order to connect to the internet, or how to build out a LAN network to play games together in person. We took classes in touch-typing at school, using the computer lab. I went to computer camp during the summer. I went to college and took more advanced classes on programing.
I have spent tens of thousands of hours learning to use the computer, practically from the inception of the PC to the modern day.
Now my friends have kids, and I talk about how they use the computer. Everything is out-of-the-box. Installing something is as simply as clicking an icon. You can buy a mini-computer off the shelf for under $200 and it runs better than anything I could have built thirty years ago. Periodically, they will come to me with a more advanced computer program, which has to do with a very particular OS configuration or some weird networking bug that only someone with 10+ years of experience would think to look for. I typically find the answer online, because I don’t remember it off the top of my head. I teach the kid and the kid learns, and then the kid knows as much as I do on that particular subject.
In twenty years, I’m sure they’ll know more than me, just because I’ll be retired and they’ll be in the thick of it.
Also, please nobody ask me how a car works. That was something my parents’ generation learned. I’m clueless.
Local Area Network Network.
Sorry I couldn’t resist.
I’m going to interpret that last “network” as that extra f-ing 50 ohm bnc terminator that you’re pretty sure you don’t need, until you’re about to learn something about coax impedence matching.
RAS syndrome
Since you mentioned cars, here is a theory my coworker told me that I think makes a lot of sense.
Our parents were the last generation to learn about cars because back then you needed to know how a car worked in order to own one. Cars are too simple now and you couldn’t fix one even if you wanted to since they are so locked-down.
We are the last generation to learn how computers work since we needed to know how a computer worked in order to use it. Now computers are too simple to use and you couldn’t fix one even if you wanted to since they are so locked-down.
Obviously not saying nobody today knows how cars or computers work, but it is a lot less common. Anybody who learns about cars or computers today do it because of personal interest, not because of necessity.
Cars are too simple now and you couldn’t fix one even if you wanted to since they are so locked-down.
Yes, same thing between computing hardware (I’m not gonna say computers, because for a lot of people nowadays, their only device is their smartphone) and cars. It used to be that things were more complicated to use, but easier to repair, so a large percentage of users could also repair their things.
Nowadays, you don’t even need to know how to check your oil level because the car will tell you if it’s low. You might not even have a dipstick. And with service intervals being 25000km and more, how much are you REALLY saving by doing your own oil change and stuff?
Decided on a whim to fix up an old car from the 80s. I was able to tear it down to the frame and reassemble it with not much more than a set of imperial wrenches. That’s a bit of an oversimplification but not much. And while there was a lot that could go wrong there was nothing that was a black box where you could get to a point where if something was wrong you would throw up your hands and say, “Oh, well. Guess this is garbage now!” Different time, I guess.
Yup, now you spend several hundred on a Chinese clone of whatever factory diagnostics tool allows you to code modules and such. And there are still probably things you can’t touch.
Cars are too simple now and you couldn’t fix one even if you wanted to since they are so locked-down.
I mean, I’d argue they’re too complex. But I agree, you need so many specialized widgets (many that vary by brand and model) that its impractical to do more than change the oil.
I was looking at a Model A on display at a dealership when I went car shopping recently. They had the engine open, and I was looking at the thing thinking “If you sent me this in a box as a ‘Build your own car’ kit, I’m pretty sure I could do it”.
Sorry I meant simple to use. Repair and maintenance is very complex. You often can not even do some maintenance since you need specialized tools or software that only mechanics have access to.
Yes. We are.
We are young with to have learned tech at an early age, but old enough that the tech wasn’t user friendly when we were kids, so we needed to understand it better than people do in the smartphone generation.
Installing a new game on my PC in high school was a multi-hour, sometimes multi-day ordeal.
Plugging in a secondary hard drive involved putting jumpers on pins to keep the system from trying to boot off it.
Assigning ports on peripherals involved understanding how to count in binary so you could assign addresses on dip switches.
Installing a printer involved unholy alliances with formless beings.
Every 2-3 years, I still wake up wearing black robes in a strange room in Romania, blood on my hands and a lingering scent of cordite in the air. I’m fairly certain that’s related to the Canon BJC driver issues I had upgrading my AST to Windows 95.
I had a boot floppy I needed to use when I wanted to play Sim City 2000 because my PCs usual configuration didn’t have enough free conventional memory.
I had another one for Zone66 because its memory management was incompatible with EMM386.
The hardest thing I remember having to do to install games was if they were DOS games and you have to manually assign all the hardware ports or whatever (I remember one for “IRQ?”) for the game every time you ran it and if you fucked it up, it wouldn’t have a picture or wouldn’t have sound or they would be fucked up.
Not quite old enough to have actually had to type in the program after buying the game on a book. That would have been rad!
Random BSOD from changing… absolutely fucking nothing, then spending 2 days trying to recover, before saying fuck it and reinstalling windows, so you can play WC1 or D1…good old days.
Also printers can suck it. 20 years ago maintaining a fucking print server was bullshit… I’d rather deal with BES for another 100 years.
Sometimes I’d put a floppy disk in. It had 1.jpg crushed down to be 256 colors. Pam Anderson.
For the longest time it would crash windows 95 when I put it in the drive and opened the folder.
It had a “-” dash in the title…I took that out and no more blue screening.
Thanks Bill Gates…
I’d rather deal with BES for another 100 years.
Cool it, Mario… oh, the menus -shivers-
Lol I might have to take that back…BES was a pile of epic smoldering shit…even the engineers would tell me it was shit. I’m pretty sure I reinstalled that damn thing a thousand times. It was like winning the lottery when the CEO finally wanted and iPhone and then forced the reset of the company to android or iPhone… myself and my junior admin had beers in the office when we got the last user off it and got to shut it down on a Friday. Best day ever.
I’m fairly certain that’s related to the Canon BJC driver issues I had upgrading my AST to Windows 95.
I had the biggest flashback right now. I had a Canon BJC 4000 that would only print all the pages if you had two or more empty pages at the end of the document. Never figured that one out, but every so often I open an old Word Doc and find extra empty pages and remember…
Installing a printer is still often a deal with the devil
Yeah. I’ve had to return printers that wouldn’t let me install drivers without also agreeing to install spyware.
More likely from soundcard settings than printer settings. If you’re channelling, its due to wrong number of channels selected.
That’s the weird thing. I used Soundblaster cards, and those blackouts were usually preceded by nightmares of an anthropomorphic goat. It was handy because you could make arrangements to feed the dog and stuff.
Installing a printer involved unholy alliances with formless beings.
Lol so true
Our parents didn’t think it was important. Our kids don’t think it is necessary.
Imagine how horse farmers felt about engine maintenance on the first automobiles. Early adopters probably knew everything about how to fix tractors and cars. But today, how many people know how to change their own brakes or flush the coolant?
Life evolves, and transitions come faster with every generation. It’s good that nobody knows how to use a sextant or a fax machine.
I think the modern car climate is a better comparison than the change from horse and buggy to Model T. Many people work on their own cars, but it’s mostly for fun and the increasing levels of computers and sensors in cars makes it more difficult to do all the work yourself. And then you add in the nuts and bolts car companies make that can only be unscrewed using special tools that the companies also make to force you to bring the car to one of their dealerships.
Tech literacy rates are falling like the skill to use a car with a manual transmission. Since everything kids do is on their phone, and phones are like that one car company that welded the hoods of their cars shut, they never need to pick up the skills with computer software that the work world expects them to have (but who really wants to know how to use Word and Excel anyways), nor the skills with working on your own hardware.
Sidenote: Fax machines are, unfortunately, still very much a thing. At least, if you ever have to deal with the federal government or the medical industry, they are.
or a fax machine
Healthcare industry is crying in the corner
I’m still mad we print so much stuff at work, it’s 2024 just update a spread sheet. I don’t need an email much less a physical copy of something I saw the update for an hour ago
I had to print out a PDF the other day because the software wouldn’t let me sign it, and then scan the document back into the computer.
My dad thought computers were important. He got me a VIC-20 soon as they came out, and that was $1,800 in today’s money, not an amount he spent lightly.
Sure, obviously there were exceptions or we wouldn’t have half the modern conveniences we do. My parents were very enthusiastic about computers, and my kids are each building their own desktops. I’m speaking in generalities.
I still know how to use a fax machine :(
It’s good that nobody knows how to use a sextant or a fax machine.
Modern Naval officers are taught to do navigation by starlight for backup purposes. Cause GPS ain’t that infallible.
Farmers right now are fighting a legal battle for the ability to repair their own tractors.
It’s not good for farm equipment to be locked down and sealed off just like it’s not good for operating systems to be locked down and sealed off.
I agree with you on that. I’d also like to be able to replace the battery on my phone or control my social media. But that wasn’t really my point. Disposable goods are bad for consumers and bad for the environment, along with fast fashion, factory farming, corporate conglomeration, and the vertical integration of news media.
And I think that’s the new frontier, which is really just reclaiming the old frontier from the profit-takers. People are learning to sew and knit, how to cook, how to farm, how to repair their stuff, and how to evaluate propaganda. That’s the shit our kids will say we never bothered to learn, and if they do it right, maybe their kids won’t have to learn.
It’s certainly partially that, but that’s not the whole picture. Before, every old thing “everyone” knew how to do was replaced with a new thing “everyone” knew how to do. But at the moment, is there a new thing? I can’t think of one. All but the most niche products are built to be as easy to use as possible, and if it breaks or slows down, replacement is more preferred than tinkering. I don’t see the same need anywhere to get our hands dirty that leads to widespread proficiency like the image is talking about.
OG DOS command line interface nerds unite
but yes. it helps to have grown up alongside the IT industry and internet
I remember copying a game onto floppies from DOS, but I can no longer remember the command that tells it to split the file onto multiple disks because it’s too big for 2.88 MB
I have no idea what it would have been in a Windows/DOS environment, but
funny how i didn’t see all the shit you had to go through back in the day just to pirate a <10MB game as a pain in the ass that i see it as now, yet i’d still go back to those days in a heartbeat if i could
Check out moneybags over here with his 2.88mb
It was called spanning and was usually done with a third party utility like xcopy or pkzip, but I am pretty sure MS backup did it as well. I don’t think you could do it with DOS copy command through v6.22.
I remember getting our first computer. It was a Tandy 1000 and I was completely fascinated by it. I loved playing games on it but we couldn’t afford them. My dad got some sort of PC magazine that always had the DOS code for one or two games in the back and I would spend hours writing that code onto the PC so we could play things like video poker or chess.
By DOS code, do you mean BASIC? This comment says a lot.
You aren’t old enough
Yes
Yes.
Yes…
The next generation doesn’t know how to use a mouse because they do everything on the phone. And yes, I have met people like that.
There’s a Pirate Software clip where he talks about the amount of kids who don’t even recognize a controller as an input and go straight to assuming all screens are touch screens
How old are they that don’t know how to use a mouse?
Young. It’s people that are 30-35 and younger that are not learning those skills, because they’ve never had to interact with an actual desktop/ tower.
Your numbers are off. 30-35 absolutely interacted with desktops only until college. The smart phones when we were in high school were blackberries.
weeps in 34 y/o
Relevant clip from a gaming industry veteran. Kids don’t even know how to use game controllers, because they have only ever played phone or tablet games.
Most of the world doesn’t know how to use game controllers, because they’re not used outside of consoles
Just curious, what age group is he talking about here? 6-year-olds? My little brother’s 13 and he plays games on his Xbox all the time. And his slightly older friend’s a PC gamer.
“How quaint”… cracks knuckles, proceeds to type a hundred words a minute with all ten fingers on a QWERTY board.
We are the bridge generation.
We know and saw a world without the internet and we experienced it when first came to be.
We saw the first mass produced computers and computer devices which broke often, didn’t work the way we wanted them to, they weren’t fast and they didn’t have much memory in any way. We were the first generation to see all this. Our parents were too old and busy to figure it out but we were young enough to be curious about it all. We also kept wanting to have the newest fastest hardware and software so we had no choice but to either buy, beg or steal these things to get them. We learned to swap parts, add parts, remove parts, install an OS, uninstall the OS, run backups, store data and learn it all on our own because there was no easy internet social media community to help you. Software was constantly changing and we had to keep up by either buying expensive titles or we either learned about Linux and open source software or we became digital pirates or both.
Now the digital landscape has changed. Younger generations prefer handheld devices so to them everything is solid state … they never can imagine changing the RAM, HDD, SSD, CPU, GPU or the PSU or even bothering to learn what those things are. Because everything is built in and no one (or very few) people bother with fixing or tinkering with anything, there are fewer people who learn about software and about how or where to find it, install it, configure it and run it. To new generations who only know the digital world through locked devices, there was less incentive to learn or even have access to know how these things worked.
We are the bridge generation. We got to see the world without the internet and the world with one. No one before us got to see what we saw, no one after us will experience what we went through. Our civilization dramatically changed during our lifetime and we got a front row seat.
We got to live in the most interesting times in history, so far. Most of us are depressed for it.
It’s not easy growing up in houses, watching our parents complain about tiny things while cashing huge paychecks… And now they tell us it’s our fault we can’t afford that lifestyle.
Boomers are real pieces of shit, as a whole. Not all of them, of course… But man, there’s a very real trend.
I thought it was because we didn’t want to work. Man, I really dislike that statement.
Boomers are real pieces of shit
I have some weird news for you: Generations don’t exist. Boomers? Not real. Silent Generation? Nope. Gen X? No! Millennial? Non-existent! ALL OF THEM.
Very eloquently put.
The comp for an older generation is cars. Cars saw similar growth and adoption in the 50s-80s. And they had similar growing pains, reliability and maintenance issues were common place. So being able to perform maintenance and having an understanding of how they work was far more wide spread than just hobbyist and professionals.
As cars advanced the need to perform field maintenance and ad hoc repairs became less required so future generations (on average) became less knowledgeable and skilled at various car repair (and modification) activities, because cars just work now so there’s really no need to worry about learning how to fix minor issues, because they’re just not a common problem.
Here I am at 41 and know how to screw with everything. I stayed inquisitive and stayed a tight ass. I think I’ve paid for a professional to do something twice in the past 20 years. I didn’t want to take on the task of replacing a clutch on a front wheel drive suv on the ground in my driveway.
You also can’t wrench on a car anymore in the way you used to. It’s all computerized and you need special software to access and configure parts.
I can’t replace my airbags without special pairing software that cost tens of thousands of dollars. It’s unlikely that I’ll learn by performing the repair because the tools are no longer available.
Eh…that’s still pretty doable. Many things actually got easier for auto work. A $12 bluetooth obdII dongle and a $4 piece of software on your phone will give you most all the trouble codes you need to diagnose problems, and that’s it it doesn’t outright tell you the issue. Almost no car parts are parts paired and thanks to the internet there’s guides that are way better than a Haines manual to show you how to fix things, as well as a dozen different places to order parts from.
In the past 15 years the only time I’ve used a mechanic was to replace a clutch.
Case in point: I drive an EV and I don’t think there’s a damn thing I personally can do to fix it other than maybe change a tire. It doesn’t even have a spare and I wouldn’t even know how anyway.
My god, I’m the iPad kid of cars.
There’s a lot you can still do. All the suspension, battery cooler pump, brakes, wheel bearings, a ton of things to do with the electrical system and lights, fuses and relays, window and lock motors, blinker arms and switches, fluid changes, hvac and ac components, the traction motors themselves…generally the only thing hard for a shade tree mechanic is the battery itself. They’re really heavy and hard to remove.
Now some components are going to be hard to get a hold of because there isn’t any third party companies making replacements, but eventually as need arises, they’ll get made. Until then there’s places like pick n pull where you can go take used parts off used vehicles or buy used and tested components from ebay if the manufacturer won’t sell you something. I bought a new oem hybrid battery just a couple years ago from a Toyota dealership and installed it myself.
It’s a deliberate choice by companies because they sell you the thing, and the service to fix the thing.
The difference is that you don’t need to be car savvy not to get into an accident. But you do need to be tech savvy not to be at risk of cyberthreats.
Drivers truly don’t need to know how a car works, software is not like that.
Also, you can get by without a car, whereas most people need at least an email address.
deleted by creator
The PSU is the only thing you can change easily. I love that everything is USB-C and that I can plug in everything, everywhere.
But I’m kind of happy everyone uses handhelds, I got really tired fixing everything for my entire family and friends.
“My printer seems to be defectiv…”
Entschuldige, ich kann kein Englisch. Muss weg, keine Zeit. Bye!
It’s like all the old geezers who cum into carbeurators but like, shouldn’t they be happy that fuel-injection is a million times better and more reliable? I work on my own car and I can handle that shit in my driveway easy but these people seem to want more work to do. Yes, Fred, carbs make more sense for dirtbikes but oh my god otherwise shut up.
As for printers yea what the fuck. They all work differently even within the same company when all they need to do is take the exact same control module, maybe two versions of it, and slap it onto different bodies. But, instead, it’s just a giant fucking mess.
I work in Tech and this is my mantra: printers are Of the Devil.
I’m sure they got to us because they were too evil for hell and the devil itself got tired of them.
The part that royally pisses me off is that a roommate used to work for Lexmark. One day he brings home an “all in one” printer, fax, scanner, and something else I am forgetting. Best scanner I have ever seen. No light bar. The thing worked by taking four pictures and digitally meshing them together. When you scanned a document, there was a series of 4 rapid flashes. One Magenta, one Cyan, one Yellow, one White.
The damn thing was absolutely perfect at digitizing anything you put onto the unit’s scanning glass, but it did have a design issue where the scanning glass wasn’t parallel to the floor, and was instead tilted like a desktop picture frame.
According to my roommate, that particular design flaw is why they decided to kill the printer, never releasing it to the public. AFAIK they never even tried that scanning tech in any other printer.
My buddy worked tech support for a fairly large facility. They got tired of getting calls for a busted printer, only to walk all the way across the facility to discover it was out of paper. It got to the point that if someone called about a printer, they would wait an hour before responding. If nobody else called within that hour, they assumed the issue was resolved on its own.
In healthcare IT there’s often a person who specializes in just printers. My friend makes a lot of money doing that.
I once turned down a job solely because they asked too many questions about printers during the interview.
I won’t be the printer guy! That path leads to depression.
Oh and cancer. Toner gives you cancer.
My 13 y o niece had no idea how to uninstall a program on a PC. I was a little stunned.
I’m reasonably certain that all four of my housemates, (58 y/o +) don’t have any idea how to close a program either on their laptops, or their phones. Thankfully I’m the only desktop guardian.
She never had to deal with a 4GB hard drive running out of space :-/
Defragmenting often to free up some precious megabytes. I felt like the king of the world upgrading from 4 to 20 GB.
Now I treat a few gigabytes the way I used to treat a few megabytes (like they’re nothing)
My government teacher in 12th grade got hit with an RIAA suit for seeding thousands of hours of music on Kazaa. When she found out that it was “illegal pirating” she deleted the icon off the desktop and thought she was done.
It’s not like your bridge generation is the only one that know how to use a computer. To me it seems that there are a few ‘experts’ in each generation and the others don’t bother learning it. This is pretty normal and called specialization, the thing that civilization allows us to do.
I grew up with computers, there was no strict need to change OSes or even hardware (of you got prebuilts). Even so, it’s amazing what unrestricted Internet access and an interest in videogames can lead to. And I know a lot of others who either have at least the basic skills, or are studying Computer science together with me.
Perhaps there are trends in each generation, but acting like it’s just one generation that can do computer things is just wrong.
Poverty is also a driving force. I’ve never had a lot of money so I had to be creative in order to do a lot of things. I know how to fix repair and even build my own house. I know how to fix and maintain most things with all my vehicles. I know how to build fix and maintain my own computer systems because I could never afford expensive devices or to pay anyone to fix things for me.
Because I couldn’t afford much, I’ve instead had to spend most of my time doing things myself.
I’m not sure what the generation breakdown is. I’m in my 50’s and fix PCs. My brother in law is in his 70’s and fixes PCs. One of his 3 daughters (40) fixes her own PC.
It seems like it’s everyone between 40-80.
I think your family are tinkerers, and they are a rare breed. A group of people who just love taking things apart, bringing them back together and doing all sorts of other things with them. My family is a bit like that but we never had the technical expertise. I’m indigenous from northern Ontario and a lot of my cousins and relations have a grade school education but there is a whole lot of excellent small engine mechanics. I have one cousin who barely spoke any English but her regularly swapped while engines from trucks to keep old vehicles running.
I tinker myself which is why I learned about computers and computer technology on my own but never to a really high level.
So every generation has their outliers and your family were probably the same group of people that made things or fixed things in earlier generations.
in my 50s* + in his 70s*
GenX is what the comment is about. Millennials were born to home computers but the early ones had to contend with much the same mess we did.
Yeah, early millennial and OPs comment fits to a “T” for me, though I think some of my experiences had a bit more socialization in context, like ICQ, Aol chat, and MSN messenger. The rise of cell phones, text messages, T9, etc. My kids are amazed when I pull out the VHS tapes at my parents, or my dad pulls out some cassettes or vinyls (though those have been more popular of late).
Millennials were born to home computers
The majority of Millennials probably first got a PC in the home in their tween/teen years.
Early millennials are definitely thrown in there and remember “before the internet and cell phones” where a thing. I was flipping dip switches on my motherboard to make my swapped out components work. My first pc I got a hold of ran on dos and 5 1/4 floppies. Teens of the 90"s are probably the most pc tech literate ones.
Great write up
Feels like it doesn’t it? I enjoyed taking apart and fixing the family computer as a kid but it was also out of necessity. If it wasn’t me? Then who else would or could?
I’m still trying to decide if it’s a “when I was a kid I used to clean my own carburetor” situation. Like, is it a “back in my day men were men and we fixed our computers by hand”, or more so, there’s just not a need to dig into computers unless you enjoy it like any other hobby.
I don’t think the meme should be exclusively about building/fixing PCs though. Half the young people starting in our business show the same ineptitude as my parents when tasks with clicking stuff.
I fix my own computer and my own car …for me, it’s a poverty thing!
No one yet has touched on the success of planned obsolescence.
Sadly if most computers weren’t ‘walled garden’ experiences then maybe the kids could learn to tinker and fix them. As it is if the issue can’t be fixed from a settings app then they’re stuck.
My four-year-old daughter is shockingly proficient with a mouse and keyboard. Kid goes to town on Spyro: Reignited. My wife snagged an old PC from her office and we want to set it up for her eventually for learning, light gaming and MS Paint. We figure in another year or two we can set up a family Minecraft server and get her in on it. The dream is to get her playing Valheim with us when she’s older.
Hoping she will be as good with PCs and I am, and would love to help her build one when she’s grown.
does M$ Paint really still exist?
As a real answer, yes, you can still install traditional Paint, as well as that garbage-but-at-least-it-supports-tranparency Paint 3D.
Hehehe, boy are you in for a treat!
Mine started Minecraft at 5. She never took to Valhiem, and plays minecraft instead. She’s 16 now.
shes old enough to start learning hardware now! i absolutely did this with my kids when they were 3-6. take an old pc apart, put it back together with them naming the parts. they all loved it. a toddler trying to say ‘processor’ is hilarious btw. only one (25%) seemed to continue playing with hardware but they all know what makes up a pc and he is the one running the family minecraft in docker.
But if you are the parent that knows everything about this why not teach your kids? Great bonding opportunity and they get to not be clueless about it.
Idk. I built my first computer at 6 and ran an irc server for my class mates back in middle school. And I’m sure not many people would have done that back then either.
Im sure there’s plenty of curious and tech inclined kids these days. They just aren’t the majority. But we weren’t back then either.
in my experience, younger kids either don’t know anything about computers or are obsessed with them. I don’t see a lot of the middle
