Wikepedia states
“Much like today’s socially acceptable terms idiot and moron, which are also defined as some sort of mental disability, when the term retard is being used in its pejorative form, it is usually not being directed at people with mental disabilities. Instead, people use the term when teasing their friends or as a general insult.”
Is it only a slur if directed at soneone with mental disabilities? Is it a slur if durected at onself?
Whats lemmies take on this?
I’m retarded and I don’t find it offensive
It is, and as an autistic person I hereby give you all the R-word pass
Does it not have every reason to be considered a slur that the N word has? I say this as opposed to things like “idiot” and “hillbilly”, there isn’t a dark history behind them. No soul ever disparagingly gruntled “bleh, hillbilly” as a rural homebody was shoved into an asylum cell ten years after MLK fought for the rights of people of a certain other group whose category I cannot innocently say according to the very people here despite any support otherwise.
I think it might be generational. That word has always been part of my vocabulary. I’ve got no problem whatsoever with it, and if I’m being really honest I have a hard time taking it seriously when someone refers to it as “the R word”. I would never use it to refer to someone with an actual intellectual disability - that would be cruel. But normal people who do dumb shit, or even inanimate objects that malfunction? Sure, all the time, because I don’t mean it in a literal way. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Ah yes “the hard R” linus tech tips used to always drop those
Thats my take but ive been banned for calling myself retarded in a comment so idk.
The words one use are usually a marker of where they came from and what they are up to.
If thats the case how can we hope to police words in a fair and representative manner?
As it happens, it organically goes down to who owns the platform. In our conversation if it could’ve happened IRL, there could be two parties of equal rights (to just leave?). In a context of, say, a D&D party or a small gathering\chat, roles are equal with some privilege to the one who collected people together. In the case of some public space on the internet, like a US-based Facebook (as per the article about eating cats), we have Meta’s oversight, then government’s oversight, then community’s admins oversight, then users’ own shit filter. And in the later case, it gets a bit more complicated because it’s established that we let that state use our agency for our own good, then we let a corporation take our agency in their own hands to dictate what it should be by registering on that platform, and then we participate in some community with it’s own rules and mods, and only then other people who can report one’s post to one of these previous ones. That’s how the delegation of opinion to other parties usually works.
But your question is not about how it is, but how it should be. And for that I’d prefer to go down to the second level, when a club and it’s admins set up rules for communication of individuals on their platform, like a Lemmy instance, and users have a saying about how they see the future of their instance and a liberty to quit it. If that doesn’t fit you, you skip town and join another one, or create one yourself. That level of agency has it’s flaws, probably, but it’s better because less parties with different privileges are involved there, and you communicate with only admins and other users without that becoming too complicated.
On the side note though, I need to note, that I as a foreigner from an absurdly conservative country started to refuse myself from using the f@g90t slur that is set deep inside my language to describe a lot of bad things casually. That is because I want to communicate with people and communities that don’t want it there, and as I don’t see any value in this particular slur, therefore I just adapt. I find that a couple of guys I work with wouldn’t like that either, because they are called that by people I despise and don’t want to be associated with. I don’t feel like researching the cases when I or them can call someone a f@g9ot, I just dropmit because people I personally care about find it uncomfrotable. And our language, just like a snake, keeps cliding on top of a dune changing it’s direction whenever most people of it’s users gets some new catchy word or retire an old word as unacceptable.
First and third paragraphs are irrelevant to the conversation and mostly just act as anecdote.
Second, you hit the nail right on the head. Lemmy is the ultimate embodiment of free speech, of the liberty of the individual to do as they choose.
That means said, I still think the removal of people’s non-violent language does not inbody the personal liberty that I think lemmy should hold. I don’t think admins and mods should remove language simply because someone said retarded. I think that choice should be left up to the individual to block someone if they don’t want to see their content. Ultimately that will maximise the amount of liberty for every individual. Is this not the gold?
Define non-violent language first. Or rather isolate the sorts of language that don’t offend you personally. That’s what you want to describe and defend I suspect.
By non violent i mean no cp, and no actionable calls for violence. Anything else is fair game imo.
Unlike you im not vein enough to care if people online disagree with me surly this whole thread is proof of that.
I used my baby mittens with you because I felt you just started your internet journey.
I’m not feeling ‘vein enough’ if you are incapable to read the room.
this whole thread is proof of that.
Did you know read the room is a euphemism for shut the fuck up, fall in line and be normal like everyone else. Quite fitting for the topic and hand hey?
Not always a good thing to fall in line the german population learned that the hard way. But dont worry im sure uve got 6million ways to weasel ur way out of this predicament.
Yes insert the whatever its called rule here.
People can say whatever they want, no one can stop you. But people still have every right to judge your character. Being in a free society works both ways, you can say mean shit and I can think you’re mean.
People use “retard” to compare others or themselves to people they deem lesser than. It doesn’t work as an insult if you don’t look down on cognitively disabled people. You don’t have to use it on someone cognitively disabled, the implication is already there whether you have intend it or not.
For me, I think there are much worse words. While I don’t use it, I don’t waste my brain space judging people who do.
nuanced, fair, and balanced reasonable point, who are you and what did you do with the rest of Lemmy?
It actually is not, but it’s made into a slur.
That’s to say there are legitimate uses of the word. Most other slurs have the one meaning.
Nobody uses “retard” today to mean what it actually is. It’s replaced with either “intellectual disability” or “neurodivergent”
We have shifted from using MR (mentally retarded) to using ID (intellectual disability). Even before that change, we tended to say MR instead of retarded, i guess because of the way it gets thrown around negatively and feels uncomfortable to say. Similarly, people are using autistic negatively to describe someone who’s quirky or introverted, narrowing what’s seen as ‘normal’. If you have to ask if it’s ok to say something, other people will probably have a gut reaction to you if you say it. Whether that matters is up to you.
In my state all state run sites they use the terms LMHA (local mental health authorities) and LBHA (local behavioral health authorities). But a large majority of the local offices call themselves <County Name> MHMR (mental health mental retardation).
All the laws and support systems use the term IDD (intellectual or developmental disability). And you’d be hard pressed to find any county that actually lists the full name for their MHMR office. So it seems like they are trying to phase it out. In the meantime it just makes things confusing.
Everything is wrong unless it’s not, duh. Context is everything!
Reading your comments ITT it’s obvious you’re bringing no good faith here. Not sure why so many people are letting you off the hook
Good faith doesnt imply neutrality. It simply implies civility and an agreement to engage in civil competition in the marketplace of ideas.
You’re pretending to really want to know what the consensus is, but in fact you know what it is and just want to argue against that. Good faith means you’re honest about your intentions whereas you aren’t
Im not pretending i want a consensus. Im here for the discussion so we can all talk out our sides and see where we come to. And if we where to only include the opinions of the retards themselves (those brave enough to identify themselves in this comment thread) then the consensus would be that its fine to say it.
if we where to only include the opinions of the retards themselves (those brave enough to identify themselves in this comment thread)
I saw you make that claim and doubted it but when I gave you the benefit of doubt and read the entire thread, I found one person claiming to be this and two autistic people. I’ve never ever heard this word used for them unless in an extremely derogatory manner. No doctor would’ve ever said that except before autism was a term and they only did it then out of confusion.
Your comments in this thread kind of say it all. Others should pay more attention to them.
It’s absolutely a slur. And (IMO) one of the worst ones. Nothing infuriates me more.
It’s a slur now. Before it was an insult.
One day redneck and hillbilly will be considered slurs too, Mark my words.
The difference is the R word has connotations that are higher on the Allport Scale.
How did that happen? If it began as an insult how did it morph into a slur? I hate how the alt right goes on about wokism but it seems they have a point.
They changed the underlying medical term, ‘mental retardation’ to ‘developmentally disabled’ in a form of lingual whack-a-mole since the old term was being used as an insult.
Once it lost its meaning as a short form of the medical term, it became a slur, much like we don’t call black people the n-word anymore.
But a black man still has the right to use the N word, and they do. Why can’t I use the word retarded? I’m fucking retarded. Why can’t I say retarded?
Redneck should be a mark of pride if you know it’s origins.
Lookup “Battle of Blair Mountain”
So, actually in the south the term was ‘retargeted’ by the (sub) - urban elite to mean yeoman farmers who worked the fields and had suntan on their necks.
I respect the original term, but the colloquial has reverted to ‘ignorant, racist southerner’, for good or ill.
If you have a better term for it I’m all ears, but it’s not like there isn’t a need for a category given their behavior.
One day redneck and hillbilly will be considered slurs too. Mark my words.
They already are
Once again, I am proven correct!
I grew up using this word all the time. It’s just one of the dumb words we said all the time. I only found out within the last couple of years that it’s considered a slur. Idk, I feel most people who are actually considered retarded and are competent enough to understand don’t actually care. But the reality is that any sort of “name calling” isn’t necessary. I grew up with a culture of all sorts of name calling, but just because I grew up with doesn’t mean it’s right.
But ultimately, language and the world changes and it’s just not acceptable to say anymore because it is derogatory towards a particular group.
It’s just one of the dumb words we said all the time.
What kind of context did you live in where the word’s relevance came up all the time?
Words change meaning fpr instance idiot and moron still technically mean retarded but through schoolyard insults using them we have changed the meaning to no longer be offensive to any particular group. Why is retard any different from these other words? Also i would recommend reading 1984 for a more nuanced perspective of language policing.
I only found out within the last couple of years that it’s considered a slur
No. It was always a slur. It was still a slur when we were younger, we were just too immature to understand that. It just means that we grew up and learned that it’s denigrating and (most of us) stopped using it once we grasped that.
Is the n word a slur if it isn’t directed at black people or the f word?
Can a black person call themselves an nword tho? Or are you going yo tell them what they can and cant do like the old days?
No one’s telling anyone what to do, we’re just trying you it’s a slur.
Well the rules of most lwmmy communities say no slurs so you calling it a slur absolutly is telling people what they can or cant do.
Yes it’s a slur. Slurs work like this: “You are like {minority group} and {minority group} is bad so you are bad.” It’s an insult to the individual addressed and an entire group of people at the same time.
Except that with “retard” and quite a few others, there are genuine traits that are undesirable to most people, thus the constant cycling of terms. Technical terms come in to general and pejorative use, then new technical terms come in to be less pejorative. This the terms more and more vaguely refer to the condition when referencing actual mentally handicapped people.
idiotmoroncretinretard(from ‘[profound] mental retardation’)All technical or health terms that have been cycled into being slurs in common use. Some more terms that have made their way into pejorative use:
Handicapped(not so much pejoratively used, but being cycled out anyways)SpecialDifferently AbledI’m sure any new technical terms that are used will be picked up for pejorative use soon enough. But “mentally retarded” was and is an apt description, it’s just not socially acceptable anymore because of it’s ease of use as an insult, and the concomitant public view and usage of the word.
This is important. While we as a society have learned to be more inclusive than ever before, behind all that pretense we forget that what people generally consider as “retarded” isnt desirable. It is a genuine developmental impairment that negatively affects the individuals cognitive abilities. Not one parent in the world is glad their kid is special. They may love and support them just the same because they aren’t fucking ghouls, but if they had one wish no questions asked I’m sure virtually all of them would wish for their child to be “normal”.
And therein lies the truth/problem. We use retarded as a slur because it describes a condition of inferiority. Shifting the window of acceptable speech will not change this, only rephrase it. Policing language never truly works, eventually a different word for the same meaning takes hold, so all this does is spin the wheel of synonyms.
Agreed, but I have a hard time reconciling “idiot” and “moron” being acceptable but not this. They’re basically used as synonyms
But for a brief miment in history (2016-2020) the retards were in majority in a country named the USA, making the ‘retard’ comeback.
It’s derogative and ultimatively looking down at people. So not acceptable.
And I mean in what context would you call someone a “retard” and not mean it as a slur? I don’t see any situation. Either you say that to insult someone. Or you say it to a person who it applies to… But it doesn’t really help in most situations. They probably already know. And they can’t change it anyways. And you could phrase it differently. So in most cases I’d say it’s insulting and not constructive.
