…in `98 i was paying $500 to rent a 650sf one-bedroom apartment at $30k salary; in 2008 i was paying $750 to rent a 650sf one-bedroom apartment at $45k salary; in 2018 i was paying $1250 mortgage on a 1500sf house at $85k salary: today i pay that same $1250 mortage at $105k salary and thank god i managed to save that down payment within twenty years, before the real estate speculators completely overran my local market…
…not sure what that illustrates other than 2024 is brutally expensive relative to pay: we bought three nectarines last night for six dollars at the local discount grocer, which would have cost less than a dollar thirty years ago…
Where I live I’m looking at a possible $1600 mortgage for a 750sq ft. apartment if I live in a shitty part of town where I may need to replace a window due to stray bullets at some point.
In my area:
- 2014 - 2 br apartment, 500 sq ft for $650/month
- 2015 - bought 2400 sq ft, 4br house; mortgage ~$1200
- 2024 - checked Zillow, and a comparable apartment is $1.2-1.3k
- 2024 - if I bought my house today at my same rate, my mortgage would be ~$2700
So, my mortgage is currently cheaper than the apartment I used to rent that was 1/4 the size with 1/2 the bedrooms, and my house would cost more than twice what it would if I bought with today’s valuations. So over 10 years, both have approximately doubled. Regular inflation would put that instead at $860 rent and $1560 mortgage.
And we’re far from the hardest hit area in the country, housing these days is just nuts.
Where I live 2K is at the low end for a 400sf studio (I am in a big city where rent is particularly high though).
Where I am $1300 gets you the luxury of living in someone’s garage which is what I’m currently doing, not even remotely close to a city… Utilities not included of course.
…i don’t doubt it: when i left the bay area for cheaper lands twenty years ago, 650sf apartments were going for $1600 and i’m sure prices have only inflated since…my data points are all the cheap minima on my housing curve over the past
threefour decades…edit: …f*ck, i forgot how old i am; it happens on the north end of the century mark…
Have you seen the price of a decent piece of avocado toast though?
1990: “We don’t do that, do that yourself at home. GTFO”
Avocado toast on this is $11.99. You’re saying I can have a slice or day for only $360 a month? Not a bad deal!
I can get 4 avocados for $5, a loaf of good sourdough for $5, and a dozen aggs for $8. $18/week ($3/day) and I can eat a healthy breakfast of avocado toast with 2 eggs every day.
That $72/month is what’s breaking the bank, not my $2500/month rent.
Avocados are $3 each here and man is it a gamble.
Yeah they can be finicky. I live in the mountains in CA and they’re definitely fresh, but you can tell they’ve travelled and the altitude here turns them shitty real quick so it’s a delicate balance of getting just the right ones that’ll be ripe at the right time in sequence to eat before they go to hell the next day.
First moved out in the early 00s, rent was anywhere 75-150/w depending. Friends had 2 room units in complex for 95/w. Not even 2 or 3 years later rents were at 200-250/w. Now those same units wont be under 400.
I know airbnb and such arent the sole reason, but when they can rent out their house where nightly prices 350+ where rents are at least 400/w they can rent the place for not even 2 months a year and get the same as if they were renting it out the traditional way. So, naturually there are less longer term rentals available, pushing prices up. We have whole towns which are tourist areas where people cant get a house to live in because of airbnb shit. I’ll liikely never own my own home because im paying at least 65% of my income on rent, how the fuck can i save. Fuel, food, energy. Everything going up except wages.
The answer is simple, but not easy. We need to get rid of the greedy capitalist fuckers who are ruining it for the whole world. By ANY means necessary.
Say it with me: Line. Must. Go. Up! - millionaires who don’t give a fuck.
When do we eat ^the rich^?
We really don’t give a single flying fuck but always nice to be eaten
I literally had avocado toast today. You know what made me start? I did the math, and avocado toast costs about as much as a bowl of cereal. They’ve been gradually hiking the price of all the essential items like cereal and milk, but the luxury goods haven’t gone up as much. There’s no such thing as “cutting corners and saving up” anymore.
If you make the bread at home it’ll taste even better.
I switched from cereal to oatmeal to Red Mills hot cereal. The hot cereal is great, I add honey and it’s very nice.
What a rich guy mindset, have you tried skipping meals and save up for rent? Tip your landlords.
…well there’s always rice-and-beans but with the way finance, insurance, and real estate are going these days you’ll need rice-and-beans just to survive, not to save up…
Costs and nutrition estimates
- milk - $3-3.50/gallon
- avocado - $1-1.50/ea
- cereal - $0.10-0.20/oz @ Costco - so I guess $0.35-0.70/100g?
- bread - $2.50/loaf, 22 slices per loaf
The internet tells me that 125ml milk to 30g cereal is the proper ratio. In freedom units, that’s ~30 servings per gallon or $0.10 of milk per bowl, and 30g is a little over an ounce, so $0.10-0.20 cereal per serving, leading to about $0.20-0.30 per serving. For avocado toast, a slice is about $0.11-0.12, so avocado toast is about $0.61-0.87.
Looking at nutrition (taken from MyFitnessPal and Walmart websites):
- 125ml whole milk - 81 calories, 5g fat, 5g protein
- 30g honey nut cheerios - 113 calories, 2g fat, 3g protein, 2g fiber
- 1 slice whole wheat bread - 60 calories, 1g fat, 3g protein, 1g fiber
- 1/2 avocado - 117 calories, 11g fat, 1g protein, 5g fiber
In total for my area, for an average serving:
- cereal - 194 calories; 7g fat, 8g protein, 2g fiber
- avocado toast - 177 calories, 12g fat, 4g protein, 6g fiber
Normalizing for cost per calorie in my area, I get:
- cereal (whole milk, honey nut cheerios) - $0.10-0.15/100 calories
- avocado toast (whole wheat bread, medium sized avocado) - $0.34-0.49/100 calories
In other words, avocado toast is something like 2-5x more expensive than cereal, depending on where in that range your meal falls. If you’re buying regularly priced cereal (more like $0.20-0.25) and if milk is more expensive in your area, then it’s a lot more competitive, but still cheaper than avocado toast (something like half the price).
That said, neither is a particularly expensive meal, and you’re not poor because you’re eating avocado toast. However, if everything you do is 2-5x more expensive than alternatives, then we have an issue.
You’re also forgetting that cereals contain almost no vitamins or fiber, but avocado does. So, to make up for it, you should eat a salad to your cereals. Then calculate the price again. You will find (I guess) that avocado can compete with cereals+salad.
Well, a multivitamin costs a few cents…
But yes, cereal is certainly less healthy than avocado toast, but it doesn’t really need to be if the rest of your diet makes up for it. Also, there are also breakfast cereals with higher fiber and vitamin content (e.g. most granolas), and oatmeal has 4g fiber in a 140 calorie serving and is cheaper still than most breakfast cereals.
My point here isn’t to decide which is the best option for your breakfast, but to challenge the idea that avocado toast is somehow about the same price as breakfast cereal. There are a lot of options for breakfast that can fit into a balanced diet. The important thing is to find something you like that supports a healthy lifestyle and fits into your budget, and there are a lot of options to get there.
The bit about avocado toast is not making one for yourself at home for $2. It’s about going out to eat for every meal and ordering an overpriced item at a hipster brunch bar in a liberal city. It has nothing to do with the fact that a piece of bread and an avocado are fairly cheap on their own.
Not defending the out of touch piece of shit that said it, just trying to give context.
So it’s okay to do in a conservative city?
Avocados are $3 each here and half the time they’re bad. Must be nice living somewhere with affordable avocados.
Even with avocados at $1 each it’s still way more expensive than a bowl of cereal. Unless you buy brand name cereal at MSRP or something.
The price of cereal shot up in the last year, heh.
Do you use an entire avocado for your toast?
Where I live it’s $5 a gallon for milk (let’s assume 1/10 gallon for breakfast cereal so $0.50 per bowl)
Then it’s like $1.00 /100g of cereal, so you’re probably looking at $1.50 for a bowl of cheerios.
Where I live I can get avocados for $1.20 each and a loaf of bread for $4.50 (14 slices?) so if I use half an avocado for my slice of toast that’s less than $1.
I noticed healthier food getting cheaper than manufactured “food” products years ago. Everyone talks about McDonald’s in 2024, but nobody remembers the discomfort around a $6 box of Cinnamon Toast Crunch in 2014.
Even being homeless got more expensive.
I mean… yeah? Kinda late to the party though - this has been true for a minute now…
This is hard to read after decades of useful idiots telling me it’s just a blip and everything is OK.
We need the Rent Is Too Damn High guy to be in high political office to get this shit under control.
What we need is more housing, and that means looser zoning, which means fighting the NIMBYs. I would love to see mixed zoning become a more common thing in the US (and everywhere TBH).
Eh, McMillan is a republican who endorsed Trump. We don’t need him.
We want the legend, rather than the man, it would seem
good luck angering the real estate-owning people without a backup plan
At this point we need somebody who will just come out and say it: it’s everyone else versus landlords.
Fuck them. You cant outsource an apartment building to China. Make their lives hell and if they decide being a landlord isn’t worth it and sell their property at a loss then everyone is better off for it
the same people bribing the supreme court are behind this very bullshit.
Wait fucking wait wait fucking wait… That piece of shit owns real page?? I’m like 99.999% I had be reading about him giving gifts to supreme fuckbag Thomas but I don’t think realpage was ever mentioned…
Ffs…
Yarp, been fucking every working class person in America for years. Yayyyy
They need to be consumed
My rent has doubled since the last time we met
Where I live, rent has almost quadrupled since 2010 while wages for many jobs have stayed pretty much the same.
Yeah 10 years ago a qualified tradesmen in my industry was paid average 45 an hour, now that same level of experience is about 48 an hour.
In that time the cheap bread went from 50 cents to 3 dollars.
I told my boss I would need a raise years ago when bread went to 85 cents he laughed.
I struggled like fuck as an apprentice then thought I was doing well, now days I couldn’t imagine being an apprentice living on your own etc.
A union job or working in a coop is really the way to go even if you struggle along the way. Also I’d kill for 3$ a loaf cheap bread. I live in bumfucksville WI and a cheap loaf is at least 5$ a loaf while the average income is around 40k a year in my county
Oh hey, bumfucksville is right down the way from me! I feel your pain. Everything got wicked expensive super quickly, and wages suuuuuck, especially if you aren’t in/around Madison or Milwaukee. Even kwik trip bread has gotten wildly overpriced. I think that’s currently sitting around $5 for 2 (just a few years ago, used to be $1/2) And their eggs, used to be $0.99/12, now almost $4!! (I haven’t even looked at a regular grocery for those things lately, can’t afford them.)
I’ve started making my own bread. I have a bread machine I got used decades back for $20. It’s not very good bread yet, and I’d probably be better off not baking it in the machine, but it’s nearly free and stupid simple, so whatever. And if I can get my city to permit me for chickens (which they do, thankfully, up to 6, as long as your neighboring houses are either more than 100 feet from the coop, or they agree that it’s fine). Due to a company warehouse sharing my lot lines, I only have one neighbor, and I think it’s maybe more then 100 ft from where the coop will be. I have a (quite large) compost pile that will be included in their run, for them to scratch in and eat bugs, scraps, and mushrooms from (I added some leftover blue oyster spawn to the pile this year to help with the breakdown, since it’s largely sawdust cat litter, and for future chickens to eat), so I think they will end up being great nutrition for fairly limited cost.
Never thought I’d be the type to keep town chickens (we had a dozen growing up in the country, so I know exactly what effort is involved), but with costs being out of control, here we are.
Yeah theres kwik trip around here but I 100% dont shop there since the owners donate to gop candidates and are pro life and dont even sell condoms at their stores. Besides that though I’ve been making my own bread on and off for about a decade now, flour and yeast is much cheaper and tastier than a manufactured loaf anyway.
One trick I’ve learned to make a good loaf is the windowpane test which you cant really do with a bread machine. You grab a little chunk of kneaded dough roll it in a circle wait a few mins for it to rise then grab 4 corners and pull it apart. If its translucent and you can see light through it without it tearing it’s ready to rise then bake
Yeah fair. I don’t have many options here, unless I want to pay 2-3x as much as a normal grocery (and I think probably zero options that don’t donate to conservative shit, realistically). We only have piggly wiggly locally, and those are so freakin expensive for almost everything (probably because they know they have a truly captive market in the people who can’t go that far, and everyone else is pushed there by sheer distance to the next option - if you run out of sugar, you’ll pay the extra $2 to save an entire hour) The closest real grocery store is 20 min by highway, and it’s also not very good.
I’ll keep that window trick in mind, thanks! Won’t work for baked-in-situ, since that’s all timer based, but I’m thinking that’s the full source of the failures anyway (it rises, but it’s pretty dense and then collapses a bit. My slices no longer look like Batman, but they still fall a half inch or so during baking… I’ve had to tone down the yeast, which alters the flavor and texture I’m sure)
Anyway, it’s cheap enough that I don’t mind trying a thousand iterations to find the lazy method that works, even if that does include just using the dough setting and transferring to my silicone bread pans. It’s fully edible, great for croutons, it’s just dense and a bit overly sweet most of the time. I wish I had the brain for fully hand-made bread, but I’d never remember to do the next steps on time to have it turn out properly.
Been living with my parents for almost two years again. Thought about renovating a connex as a living space for breakfast just yesterday. Might snack on my last marbles tonight.
It’s DEFINITELY the toast. Have you seen how expensive those fucking avocados have become? Holy shit, man.
Ah, but Real Income is up 0.6% over the last fiscal cycle, so why are you complaining?
Judging by the massive price hikes right next to being told that Inflation is much lower percentage-wise than the price increases most people are experiencing, that Official Real Income growth number is based on doing the Maths with an Official Inflation that hugelly underreports real inflation.
Do the Maths with an Inflation figure that’s not as bullshit as the current Official one and you get negative Real Income Growth.
Similarly for GDP Growth, by the way: Official Inflation numbers which understate the real inflation mathematically yield higher Official GDP Growth numbers.
There are very big political reasons to fiddle with the Inflation reporting to make it seem lower because it boosts up several important Economic figures without fiddling with those directly, and the pressure from politicians to do so is probably manyfold the normal in an election year.
Let’s do the math. At a nice brunch place, avocado toast costs $14.
To make up for the $1,500 increase in rent, you would need to eat 3-4 fancy avocado toasts per day, for an average of 107 avocado toasts per month.
Given these numbers we can assume that you exclusively eat avocado toasts at restaurants for all sustenance. This would negate the need for a grocery budget, which usually trends at about $300/month, giving you the budget for an additional 21 avocado toasts per month, for a guaranteed minimum of 4 toasts per day (128 per month).
So as long as you’re consuming avocado toast below this level, it’s probably not the cause of your financial issues.
You forgot to account for lattes, which are a critical part of the equation.
