• nekandro@lemmy.mlOP
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      4 months ago

      Calling a spade a spade is a hit piece now? Truly the least propagandized people on the planet.

      • exanime@lemmy.today
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        4 months ago

        Calling a spade a spade would at least include the mention that Trump didn’t answer a single question. All he did was ramble; I could stomach 3 questions and I cannot tell from the answer if Trump understood any of them

        • Cataphract@lemmy.ml
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          4 months ago

          Article about the performance of Biden and the Democrats response

          But But it’s unfair because they didn’t talk about Trump! This is exactly why we are in this mess to begin with.

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      4 months ago

      You know, as much as one has to keep Machiavellian machinations and Realpolitik in mind… Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Biden did not do well. They report about it in a way that gives them clicks. There is no plan.

    • enkers@sh.itjust.works
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      In 2009, CNN’s current CEO was called the 65th most powerful person in the world by Forbes.

      I wonder if he’d have any financial incentive one way or the other?

      • Zipitydew@sh.itjust.works
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        4 months ago

        They do actually. CNN was bought by open Trump supporters back in 2022. It’s been stated a few times they want CNN to become another Fox News.

    • go_go_gadget@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      Apparently millions of people during the 2020 primaries didn’t math long enough to realize Biden would be 86 years old after two terms.

  • NeuronautML@lemmy.ml
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    4 months ago

    Trump would only win if the Democrat party found someone seemingly more inept than him.

    I am impressed that the Democrat party managed to present not one, but two outstandingly incompetent candidates. In a row. That’s some bottom of the barrel advanced scraping techniques right there. They even managed to get a representation of both sexes.

    I’m sure Mr. Biden will be terribly distraught, as soon as he is able to understand what’s happening around him at the moment.

    • kylie_kraft@lemmy.world
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      The Democrats are still stuck in this post-Clinton seniority mindset where they unofficially pick a candidate before primaries even begin, based on who has been around the longest and who has held the highest position. Remember “it’s her turn”? Yes, yes, I know it didn’t work against Obama, but heading into the debates everyone assumed Hillary would be the candidate until Obama put on the better show. More to the point, I think Obama breaking through scared the establishment Dems into doubling down on primary fuckery. See what happened to Bernie, twice. So now we have a president who knows all the right people but plays politics with the 1990s rulebook and has a terminal case of crusty old man voice.

      Still better than Trump.

      • MarcoPOLO@sh.itjust.works
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        4 months ago

        Obama has absolutely absurd charisma. He’s the Democrat version of Trump - knows exactly what to say to his base and knows how to convince moderates he’s not insane.

        Clinton and Biden have the charisma of a limp noodle. Sanders has absurd charisma, but he’s seen as too big of a threat to Democrat lobbyists and big corporations.

        Sanders would’ve mopped the floor with Trump because he would’ve actually been able to grab the 18-44 demographic (which last saw peaks in 1992 Clinton/Gore and 2008 Obama/Biden, both to unseat a Republican and, coincidentally, a Bush).

        Sanders would have been able to avoid the collapse in turnout from working-class Black people in 2016.

        Sanders would’ve stopped the increasing right-wing radicalization of the youth of America, or provided a counterweight for left-wing economic radicalization.

        The US federal elections are basically a pony show and the DNC doesn’t know how to play the game without throwing out their playbook.

      • cmbabul@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        This is about a succinct of a deconstruction of the DNCs hand in this cycle as I’ve seen. They’re effectively Ned Stark

    • The Cuuuuube@beehaw.org
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      4 months ago

      I do not understand how Elizabeth Warren didn’t get more interest 4 years ago. She was clearly the best candidate and one who has the kind of broad appeal Bernie Sanders does. I think I’m at a point where my belief is that the bankers who are probably gonna vote Republican anyway who fund campaigns very explicitly don’t want someone like Sanders or Warren to be president

      • jprice@kbin.run
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        4 months ago

        The Democratic establishment doesn’t want people who go after their donors. Mainly big banks, but also pharmaceutical and insurance companies which if you ask me all need to be reformed and heavily regulated and a lot of people need to go to prison for what they’ve done to the country over the past 24 years. But hey, who am I, just somebody who wants better for the country that doesn’t have to do with sucking rich cocks.

        • sunzu@kbin.run
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          4 months ago

          Corpo’s lapdogs are on both sides but some how GOP ends appealing to the masses.

          Some fucking warped reality.

          • It is easy to understand. The people who the Republican party appeals to are unlikely to vote Democratic, the Democratic Party by trying to appeal to them it is losing its base while not winning any Republican voters. The people who are likely to vote Democratic are more idealistic and will hold the Democratic Party to a high standard. The promised “push to the left” never came, and so the people are looking at two right wing candidates, the Republicans already got their guy in Trump and anyone even slightly left of center has no one to represent them.

      • Asafum@feddit.nl
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        4 months ago

        One-fucking-hundred percent.

        Warren was my choice over Bernie for strategic value even though I like Bernie more. If we didn’t have explicitly Republican propaganda outlets I think conservatives would have been more comfortable with her too as she was once a Republican and understands business law.

        Hell she literally wrote the book on my, and others, biggest issue “the two income trap” where society has defined economic success by “family income” instead of individual incomes. People like myself suffer because we’re perpetually single so we only have one income. Family income says everything is rosy because it’s now 2 incomes. :(

    • LarkinDePark@lemmygrad.ml
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      4 months ago

      Seriously though, I don’t follow American electoral politics much, but why didn’t they swap him out for someone else? It’s a country of ~330m people. Like even the likes of Blinken would have been acceptable to them surely? What’s the actual reasoning?

      • Shyfer@ttrpg.network
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        4 months ago

        An old American tradition to not run a primary during a President’s second term who is running for office. I guess it’s supposed to help unify the party behind a proven winner or something. That’s mostly it. Liberals love traditions, guidelines, and rules more than anyone.

      • Asafum@feddit.nl
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        4 months ago

        There’s some stupid adherence to precedent where we don’t primary an encumbant because in the past it didn’t work out well. So now we shut our eyes and pretend he isn’t absolutely one of the worst candidates ever because we refuse to primary him.

  • paddirn@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    Biden is well past his prime, had a shitty performance last night, hate his record on Israel, but I’m still voting for him because he’s not Trump and I’d prefer that our representative democracy continued. Moving to a braindead, functionally illiterate dictatorship just seems like an all-around worse move in every respect. Not sure about his chances, but whatever, there’s not really any other alternative at this point.

      • unphazed@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        He told Hannity he would be dictator for one day. No dictator goes one day. One is too many to begin with.

      • paddirn@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        I can waste my time going through that exercise, but it’s pretty clear to any thinking person that that’s what the plan is on the Republican side, just look at the words, rhetoric and actions they’ve been taking for the past 10+ years. Otherwise, you’re maliciously asking me to go through the mental effort of writing up an attack on Trump that you’ve already decided to ignore and/or counter with some feeble bad faith argument. You’re a waste of my time and everybody else’s.

        • StaySquared@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          Ah okay… so you’re full of chit as per usual. Let me guess, Maddow is your favorite all-time commentator?

          • PythagreousTitties@lemm.ee
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            4 months ago

            chit /chĭt/
            noun.

            A child.   
            A saucy girl or young woman.   
            A statement of an amount owed for food and drink, especially one signed to indicate acceptance of the charge.    
            
            • StaySquared@lemmy.world
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              4 months ago

              I looked it up too because that’s wild.

              chit
              /CHit/
              noun
              a short official note, memorandum, or voucher, typically recording a sum owed.
              "write out a chit for whatever you take from the drinks cupboard"
              
                • StaySquared@lemmy.world
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                  4 months ago

                  Because I’ve never heard nor read someone use, “chit” instead of “shit” and come to find out it’s an actual word (excluding chitchat) with multiple meanings.

                  I’m intentionally using, “chit”… being that I’m Latino and if you ever heard a boater Latino say shit, it sounds like chit.

                  The more you know!

          • paddirn@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            Why don’t YOU go ahead and write me up a 2-page essay on why Trump isn’t planning a dictatorship, cite your sources. That’s essentially what you’re asking me to do and it’s guaranteed you’ll give a short, flippant remark that doesn’t actually address any of the issues brought up, basically wasting my time. It’ll be a bunch of whataboutism, gaslighting, misdirection, and BS, that’s the standard MO.

                • StaySquared@lemmy.world
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                  4 months ago

                  Election fraud means the election would be voided and it would have to go to contingent election? I forget the process. I have no idea wtf Trump is talking about.

                  I’m not a, “MAGA” soldier. Quite frankly he’s just the better option of the two.

              • takeda@lemmy.world
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                4 months ago

                Constitution only matters if it is being enforced. And 2017-2020 showed us that very few Republicans were willing to do that.

                Currently SCOTUS is debating whether president has absolute immunity (in other words, if he can commit any crime, including murdering his political opponents) something that is absolutely against our constitution, yet they have to debate it.

      • Eatspancakes84@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        Lol at supposedly asking an open question, while simultaneously stipulating that the open rebellion cannot be mentioned. That’s not how open questions work.

      • TonyOstrich@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        Don’t use the time he instigated a coupe attempt as a reason?

        Can you tell me why putting my hand on an electric burner that is red hot is a bad idea? Don’t use anyone’s past experiences being burned by hot objects.

        Sure you could technically go into a complex explanation using physics as to why it’s a bad idea, but why?

        • StaySquared@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          My defense is the U.S. Constitution. I don’t see it as even a possibility that anyone would attempt to become a dictator in the U.S.

          • slickgoat@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            The constitution is decided by the Supreme Court in the end. The American system of government makes the selection of justices political appointees for life. That is why you have Republican and Democrat justices. Political. So the constitution gets bent into any political shape according to power possession.

            Don’t for a second believe that the United States can’t sleepwalk into a dictatorship. People are already describing Jan 6 as an ordinary tourist visit. What will it take for the public to see the danger with their own eyes.

          • takeda@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            I highly recommend “On Tyranny: Twenty Lessons from the Twentieth Century” by historian Timothy Snyder If you can’t get a book or audio book the author also reads it on YouTube.

          • Yeller_king@reddthat.com
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            4 months ago

            The Constitution is a piece of paper and says whatever 6 Republicans think it says.

            Regardless, SCOTUS has no actual enforcement mechanism. Whoever can order the guys with guns is in charge just like everywhere else in the world.

          • Kryptenx@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            You don’t see how many brazenly unconstitutional acts there were during the Trump presidency? And don’t see that nothing was done about them because no one in his party was willing to challenge him and they held the majority? That’s exactly how a democracy turns into a dictatorship. Without mentioning that democracy depends on smooth transitions of power. Unfortunately I no longer believe our constitution is as strong as I once did.

      • Jaderick@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        If inciting an attack on the capital and destabilizing the worlds oldest democracy doesn’t immediately discount Trump from your voting decisions then you’re braindead lol. Imagine trying to argue past that, despite 9 years of existing with Trump as a political figure.

        • StaySquared@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          Have you been paying attention to the details of Jan 6th? So far it looks like it was a setup, completely out of Trump’s control.

          Before you respond, have you been paying attention to the details of Jan 6th?

          • Jaderick@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            Lmao. Cite them sources or me saying Trump blows maggoty cum all over Melania is literally as true as that statement.

          • takeda@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            Yeah, sure. And what prompted trump to show up in DC in January 6th, which before 2021 was day that didn’t have any special meaning in US history?

          • Triteer@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            The details like Trump saying he loved the insurrectionists? Yeah, I paid attention to that.

          • Jaderick@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            You right lmaooo. That’s funny, I guess I should say oldest democracy with real world power.

      • doggle@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        4 months ago

        He said he would in exactly those words.

        Don’t use Jan 6th

        explain why you think he’s authoritarian, but don’t talk about that time he instigated a failed fascist coup

        I’ll admit, if you move the goalposts like that it gets a lot harder to score.

      • Breezy@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago
        1. He has said he plans on being a dictator for day one.
        2. He regularly talks like a dictator jailing and killing his political opponents.
        3. Even if he were to win a second term, he is to egotistical to let it go a second time.
        4. Hes putins little bitch who looks up to him, so of course he would want to be as great as the greatestness of putin.
        • StaySquared@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          He has said he plans on being a dictator for day one.

          Source?

          He regularly talks like a dictator jailing and killing his political opponents.

          This is literally Biden and Co… This includes Obama and Hilary. Obviously you have a source for this too, right? Surely you have literal videos of his speeches/rallies where he speaks like a dictator announcing he’s going to jail and or kill his political opponents.

          Personally, when Trump wins, I think he should definitely pull a Bukele and have all politicians on all sides investigated for corruption, including the DOJ, the FBI, and the CIA.

          Hes putins little bitch who looks up to him, so of course he would want to be as great as the greatestness of putin.

          Russia-gate is and was all BS… If you’re referring to that. Trump’s commentary of Putin was really no different than Kim Jong Un of North Korea. Also, the cold war is over. Hating Russia today just because politicians do, is mindless drone territory.

        • JovialMicrobial@lemm.ee
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          4 months ago

          I just wanted to add that I’m pretty sure Trump is jealous that Putin has something that he doesn’t… owning an entire country.

          He wants to be like Putin and Kim Jong Un and is playing some warped version of “keeping up with the Joneses” to detriment of our entire country. It’s a disgusting display of self absorption I never thought possible.

          That’s literally it. He’s going to try to become a dictator so he can boost his fucking ego and not be ‘outdone’ by someone else.

      • chiliedogg@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        So - ignoring the time he sent a mob to try and overthrow the US government, how about we use the fact that he literally said he’d be a dictator?

        Or maybe the fact that his legal defense against trying to overthrow the government was that the President is immune from all crimes. His lawyers even literally said he could have his political opponents murdered, and so long as the surviving politicians don’t impeach and convict him he can’t be held liable for it.

        They’re arguing a legal framework under which he can murder the opposition, and then kill anyone that tries to remove him from office.

    • postgeographix@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      Not American, and hate Trump and Biden equally. I say vote Trump. He’s the slim shady of US politics - he’s only giving you things you say with your friends inside of your living room, the only difference is he’s got the balls to say it in front of you all and don’t have to sugar coat it at all.

      So instead of avoiding your discomfort of acknowledging what the US is, just vote trump and let it be clear to everyone

      Or not. It doesn’t matter what you do, Trump is winning anyway. You guys are going to have cheetos man for president whether you, or we, like it or not.

      • Lightor@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        Yah fun things to talk about like “hey, isn’t it interesting how you have less medical rights now.” Jfc

      • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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        4 months ago

        he’s only giving you things you say with your friends inside of your living room, the only difference is he’s got the balls to say it in front of you all and don’t have to sugar coat it at all.

        Things like what, exactly? We must be hanging out in different living rooms.

        • xthexder@l.sw0.com
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          4 months ago

          If Trump was in my living room, I’d spit in his face. He’s so far removed from how I live my life, it’s hard for me to even acknowledge people like him exist.

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          4 months ago

          I work in Finance in London, lol, tankie is nice. You will keep saying what you said even after Biden shits his pants live on CNN. Do you fam, I dgaf.

          • skulblaka@sh.itjust.works
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            4 months ago

            And they’d still be correct, I would prefer a man who shits himself on live television every single day, over Trump. No contest. I’d vote in a potted cactus before I vote Trump. What the fuck is wrong with you.

            • postgeographix@lemmy.world
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              4 months ago

              I would vote for a cactus before either of them. We had a lettuce outlast a PM over here a short while ago. But you are blind if you see any fucking difference between them, dude.

              Like, I was telling my 2 year old last night he could have the dinosaur Pj’s or the elephant Pj’s for bed. But it was IMPLICIT that he is going to bed.

              Similarly, it is IMPLICIT that you and all other Americans are going to be exploited, and brown people are going to be killed, but you can pick the red guy to do it, or the blue guy.

              • skulblaka@sh.itjust.works
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                4 months ago

                Similarly, it is IMPLICIT that you and all other Americans are going to be exploited, and brown people are going to be killed, but you can pick the red guy to do it, or the blue guy.

                And that is no excuse to explicitly support the far more vocal and exploitative of the two, cheering forth the exploitation and murder because “BoTh sIDeS aRe GoiNg tO DO iT!” Fuck that. One side at least has the decency to appear publicly shameful of it. The other revels in it, where the cruelty is the point. If both sides are the same then I’m going to pick the side with a veneer of civility because to do otherwise is to give up entirely on any hope for a future. If both sides aren’t the same then we all know which color is going to end up on the right side of history, that isn’t even a question. So regardless how IMPLICIT it is that America is fucked up shit creek, it’s also EXPLICIT that the average voter doesn’t get much of a say in it and we can only either vote for ineffective neoliberalism, or vote to actively set our own faces on fire.

                “I hate the way everything is. Candidate A will make everything mostly stay the same, shitty garbage that I’m used to. Candidate B will make everything that I hate several times worse, as well as present new and novel problems we’ve never even known about before now, as well as inventing new non-issues to pad his own pockets with culture war profits. There is no candidate C. You know, I’m seriously considering voting for Candidate B.” is a brain damaged take, end of story.

                Opinions like yours is what brought you BoJo and Brexit. Forgive me if I don’t want to entertain them across the pond.

                • postgeographix@lemmy.world
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                  4 months ago

                  A “veneer of civility” is all that’s needed to buy your vote? A ‘veneer of civility’ over a fucking genocide? Listen to yourself, you sound so proud of that shit. .

                  Fuck that. You KNOW the truth about Biden and about the US political establishment and the only reason you vote for Biden is because you are too much of a coward to look reality in the face. You grab on to this fucking ‘veneer’ like you are stix2your fingers in your ears and squeezing your eyes shut and shouting “Aaah I can’t hear you LLALALLALALALA”, and then you act all sanctimonious like you are better people than Trump supporters. You are not.

                  And no, people believing a bunch of hokum and lies was what bought on Brexit and BoJo. Not very different from the copium you are smoking.

      • jprice@kbin.run
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        4 months ago

        Yea the things my family who likes him says in the living room is mostly ignorant compilations of how they think the government works and dumb white trash racist garbage so no thanks.

          • concrete_baby@sh.itjust.works
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            4 months ago

            So your logic is that supporting garbage is better than supporting the anti-garbage because it makes clear to everyone that you and everybody else are supporting garbage? Don’t you think voting Trump because “he will win” is a self-fulfulling prophecy?

            • postgeographix@lemmy.world
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              4 months ago

              Ahh see the fatal flaw there is that you assume Biden is anti-garbage. That’s your mistake, right there. But your tribalism won’t allow you to admit that. So, feel free to respond if you like, but I’m out.

            • Jax@sh.itjust.works
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              4 months ago

              This person lives in London, that pretty much says everything you need to know about whether they should be weighing in on this situation.

          • Lightor@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            I mean with sweep generalizations like that you’d fit right in with the MAGA crowd, no wonder you like trump lol.

  • Auzy@beehaw.org
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    4 months ago

    It wasn’t a great debate, but I’ve had a brainfart when talking too before.

    Also, the policy is what matters. What matters is also that Biden obviously was doing the right thing. Just because he doesn’t scream at people doesn’t mean he’s not a good choice still.

    Whereas Trump was clearly obviously lying constantly

    • Wahots@pawb.social
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      4 months ago

      Yeah, FWIW, Biden actually talked about expanding stuff like drug price caps to save the government shitloads of money while also saving Americans money as well. Stuff like taxing people making over 400k a year only, lead pipe abatement, funding the ACA more, giving Ukraine the aid it needs to slap the dogshit out of russia, etc etc.

      If I had no idea about either president, at leask I know what Biden’s future promises are and what he told us he got done in the past four years, even if he did have some sections where he kind of mucked up like this kid did.

      Trump, while sounding more coherent vocally, was entirely all over the place with Afghanistan and immigrants bad (no plan?), and somehow he’s going to win the war in Ukraine and bring the WSJ reporter home, for free, before he’s even elected in just under five months. Oh, and apparently, he hopes he won’t die before then, though he didn’t sound so sure about that last night.

      If I was an uninformed voter, I’d be like “Damn, biden is old, but at least he has a plan and a good team judging off his pretty amazing track record” capping insulin at $35 a mo instead of $400 is fucking awesome, not to mention the other drugs too. The massive investment in the US economy was also nice. Battery plants in Georgia, chip fabs across the country, fixing infrastructure cia the bipartisan infrastructure plan…all great stuff.

      • Auzy@beehaw.org
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        4 months ago

        Yeah. Biden said after “it’s hard to win a debate against a liar”.

        If you’ve ever argued with someone on Facebook, it’s the same. Because it doesn’t matter what you say, they’ll simply claim you are lying and it’s easy to make up bullshit. Coming up with facts, supporting them and recalling your policies is a lot harder.

        Whereas, Trump doesn’t need to worry about his policies. He just makes them up and throws in racism.

        Trump wanted everyone to know he is a racism piece of shit. If anything, that was his only policy . I’ve never seen someone be so racist

        What’s weird is that you hear Biden on different mics soon after, he sounded fine, so I think the mics may have needed adjusting too. But maybe the rules dictated both levels were the same or something

    • Tak@lemmy.ml
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      4 months ago

      The real travesty was CNN here. There was no fact checking or the slightest attempt to keep them on topic.

      I’d vote for a wet park bench over Trump. Biden was and still is the “Not Trump” candidate.

      • hglman@lemmy.ml
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        4 months ago

        Trump wouldn’t have agreed if the mods were going to been anything but prompt readers

    • pyrflie@lemm.ee
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      4 months ago

      Hopefully he doesn’t. A former Cop doesn’t pole well at the best of times. He never should have taken her as a VP candidate.

      • arefx@lemmy.ml
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        4 months ago

        Not to sound inappropriate but the only reason he picked her was because she was a black woman and he slipped up before announcing his candidate and hastily said he would only choose someone like that for VIP, and Kamala was the only one anyone was talking about at the time.

    • Omega@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      It was never unlosable. People have forgotten how bad Trump was and blame everything on Biden. It’s been an uphill battle.

      Although I still think he should have stepped aside for someone with less baggage.

      • DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social
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        4 months ago

        People didn’t forget. They never cared. Biden didn’t win by 5 million votes (and that’s not actually a significant percentage), he won by 50k votes in a few countries that flipped their states.

        • takeda@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          1st. He didn’t win by 5 million, he won by 7 million. 2nd what you’re talking about wasn’t result of popularity, but how our election system is messed up, where some votes matter more than others. trump not even once won a popular vote. Even against Hilary he lost by nearly 3 million.

      • StaySquared@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        Brah… Biden and Co have begun to blame Trump for the border crisis and the U.S. victims of illegal immigrants (rape, theft, murder, assaults etc…). Literally Biden is the man who created the border crisis and now the rampant crimes across the nation committed by illegal immigrants.

        • ltxrtquq@lemmy.ml
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          4 months ago

          rampant crimes across the nation committed by illegal immigrants

          The research does not support the view that immigrants commit crime or are incarcerated at higher rates than native-born Americans.

          What’s more, the arrival of record numbers of immigrants at the United States–Mexico border over the past two years has not corresponded with an overall increase in crime in so-called “blue” cities where many of the recent arrivals have settled. In most places, the opposite has happened — crime, including violent crime, has trended downward (other than larceny and a small increase in robbery) after peaking across the country in 2020. This has been true since the spring of 2022, the year Republican governors, including those in Arizona, Florida, and Texas, began transporting undocumented immigrants to cities with more immigrant-friendly policies, including Boston, Chicago, New York, and Washington.

          • StaySquared@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago
            • ltxrtquq@lemmy.ml
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              4 months ago

              3 examples isn’t a great way to show nationwide trends.

              Over 2000 convicted criminals - illegals captured by ICE

              This is from 2015.

              In New York, a sanctuary city that has received the most immigrants from Republican-run border states, crime decreased in most major categories in 2023 compared to the year before, as confirmed by a January report from the New York City Police Department. This follows reductions in most crime categories in the city in 2022. New York City remains one of the safest big cities in the country despite sensational claims that it is being overwhelmed by crime.

              From the same article linked above, since you seem so obsessed with New York City.

              • StaySquared@lemmy.world
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                4 months ago

                The date… that doesn’t invalidate the claim that actual criminals from other nations come into this nation illegally and commit crimes here. That’s additional crimes that could be deterred if we… closed the border tightly. The point I was making with NY, is as of recent, like I mentioned before there’s crimes committed by illegals. Had those illegal not entered our nation and into NY, cops wouldn’t have been jumped, a 13 year old and a 15 year old wouldn’t have been victimized. That’s just NY… and 5 minutes of searching things off the top of my head from what has happened in the last month or two til today.

                I’ll do you one better… Cartel in Arizona.

                https://youtu.be/CpnIz0WOk2Y

                • GreyEyedGhost@lemmy.ca
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                  4 months ago

                  If 1% of your city are criminals, you let in 200 people, and one of them is a criminal, has the crime rate gone up?

                  Those damned immigrants.

                  Edit: Ah, shit, it’s you again…

                • ltxrtquq@lemmy.ml
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                  4 months ago

                  NY has been riddled with crimes committed by illegal immigrants in the recent days, weeks, and months.

                  One last thing, now that I’m back at my computer:

                  • Continued declines across most major crime categories prevailed during January 2024, compared to the first month of last year, and included substantial drops in murder, rape, burglary, and felony assault.

                  • Incidents of shootings, murder, and other bellwether crimes in New York City were markedly reduced again in February compared to the same month last year, while major offenses committed in the city’s subway system dropped more than 15 percent. Throughout the five boroughs, overall crime continued its downward trajectory, dipping another 1.1%.

                  • New York City saw continued reductions in overall crime through the first quarter of 2024, both above ground, on streets throughout the five boroughs, and below ground, within the nation’s largest subway system. The single month of March 2024, compared to the same month last year, experienced even more drastic crime declines.

                  • Overall index crime across New York City dropped another 4.9 percent in the month of April compared to the same month last year, as major crimes in the nation’s largest subway system plummeted another 23 percent, continuing a downward trend that saw previous transit system decreases

                  • Overall index crime across New York City dropped another 2.4 percent in May 2024, compared to the same month last year, with the major crime categories of murder, burglary, grand larceny, and grand larceny—auto each seeing dramatic reductions. ‎‎
                    ‎‎

                  The point I was making with NY, is as of recent, like I mentioned before there’s crimes committed by illegals.

                  So what? There are statistically a lot more crimes being committed by US citizens. Should we start deporting/exiling our own citizens? Should we keep increasing our prison population? Or should we not hold our own citizens to the same kind of standards that you want to apply to everyone else in the world?

              • StaySquared@lemmy.world
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                4 months ago

                If said migrants came onto U.S. soil illegally, who gives a fk what they have to say or what they’re doing, back to their country they go.

      • MarcoPOLO@sh.itjust.works
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        4 months ago

        All Biden had to do was be unmemorable and he was guaranteed a second term. His ambitious foreign policy decisions (to put it lightly) and his lack of ability to pass meaningful change despite holding both chambers of Congress in his first 2 years doomed him.

        • takeda@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          He didn’t hold both chambers. The two “democrats” who supposedly won in Senate even changed their party affiliation after winning.

  • pyrflie@lemm.ee
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    4 months ago

    Nothing that was said or done in this debate has changed my views or voting preferences. This is an election between two dementia patients. Both are previous generation religious bigots. But only one is an authoritarian fascist. I’m a single policy voter this election. I’ve seen the Aryan Nations. I don’t want to deal with that shit nationally.

    • OurToothbrush@lemmy.mlM
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      4 months ago

      authoritarian fascist

      Please just say fascist, authoritarian has horseshoe theory vibes which we don’t allow on this com.

    • Chakravanti@lemmy.ml
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      4 months ago

      You don’t really have a choice. Biden basically just joke show to support Trump being elected and don’t get me started on that nightmare. There’s really only two responses to this but it ain’t electing and I ain’t gonna say it here.

      I’m off to start my fire for this dark fucking night.

  • ipkpjersi@lemmy.ml
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    4 months ago

    I’m more worried that he won’t win the election rather than he will win it. I don’t think the debate changes anything about that, people are likely still going to vote who they were going to vote for. He is the not Trump vote, and it’s just as important as ever if not more important to vote not Trump.

    • Wxnzxn@lemmy.ml
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      4 months ago

      Yeah, while the republicans have basically openly moved to reactionary and fascist politics, thus implicitly accepting the status quo is over, the influential parts of the Democrats seem to have been clinging completely to the idea that the status quo is what is to be preserved - even though material reality will not make that possible.

      Right now, we seem to be in a historical moment, where old privileges are breaking away from a continuing crisis in capitalism that basically has been smouldering since the (late) 70s and kept stable through neoliberal policies thus far. Old privileges being lost results in a reactionary shift worldwide at the moment. It will be harrowing, but there is at least always the possibility of the pendulum swinging the other way - right now, in the coming years, organisation, connecting people, openly presenting radical alternatives to prepare for that moment seems to be the most important work to me.

      • Urist@lemmy.ml
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        4 months ago

        Would you mind expanding on what you mean by material conditions and fascism in relation to old privileges (don’t know what you mean by the latter)?

        • Wxnzxn@lemmy.ml
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          4 months ago

          So, I am heading to bed for the night, because I have been awake all night and day and the day before to catch the debate - but the short answer is: The decline of the middle class and the petite burgeoisie - which I in this case view not in the traditional definition, but also broader, as all the people owning a little bit of capital i.e. savings for old age in some fond or maybe a house of their own. Also the disappearance of job security and stable work relations.

          With it, the conservative “lets keep things as they were” mindset of people who had a decent enough life, i.e. mostly boomers that lived through the economic growth phase of the post-war era, but also younger people dreaming of that time or having profited from it through their parents, comes into crisis. But as this mindset argues from its own experience, it dreams of the past (“Things worked back then, right?”), while missing, that the very same “working” system was what had within it, already the inherent nature that eventually led to it decaying around us. So they need to explain the decline as something caused by an outsider, a malevolent force.

          At the same time, this decline of the middle class leads them to try and grasp to divisions that might “save” them from proletarisation - becoming properly dependend on paycheck to paycheck and owning nothing but their own labour power to sell on the market. So, racism for example - if you are white, you might just be spared from the above fate. And you can kick down, targeting all those brown people below instead of punching up - the latter is a lot more risky after all. And the people up above can’t be at fault, after all, you (or the people you heard about from the past) had a great life when those were around, right? It just have to be the “right” people, like you and the people of your nationality/race/religion/other ingroup - often depressingly arbitrary.

          This is still a very reductive summary, a lot is missing, globalisation, how it relates to the net rate of profit, how consolidation happens, details about the ideology of our current times. But broken down to it’s basics it can be summarised as such. The middle class is disappearing as a consequence of capitalist development, which leads to them becoming panicky and diving headfirst into ideology.

          Well, anyway, good night, hope it was possible to understand what I was trying to bring across in my rambling

          • Urist@lemmy.ml
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            4 months ago

            Thanks! The increasing difference between material conditions of the upper middle class / petit bourgeoisie and the proletariat, and the often ensuing split of the middle class into these two, is definitely a contention point that allows for quick fascist demagogues to capitalize on. I see that the loss of “old privileges” for the former fortunate middle class allows for admiration of some greater past, which plays well into the fascist textbook.

            However, I do think the far right’s success within young males, for example, is a different symptom of the same condition. That young people whose futures are diminished by capitalist exploitation tend towards fascism as their solution, while fully educated about its past and its options, is what baffles me the most.

            Maybe I am overlooking something and that is why I did not get your point originally nor that which I described above, but to me there seems to be a disconnect of logic that is exceptional, even when taking into consideration that we are talking about supporters of the far right.

            • Wxnzxn@lemmy.ml
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              4 months ago

              Yes, you raise a very important point that I completely glanced over with sleep-deprived tunnel vision brain. Young males are a group, where ideological factors are a lot more prevalent. A constant barrage of presenting the desirable thing to be succesful - everything from sexual gratification to security in life depends on it - is given to, well, actually everyone, but even today still predominately young males. In addition, the ideological explanation presents no proper “out” that has analytical value: If you don’t succeed, you are just some sort of beta cuck or whatever. How about you buy this course by this YouTube influencer, on how to get money and pussy by changing your own inadequacy, which of course in reality throws the vast majority of their fans into dependence and diminishes any resources they had.

              This demand to be succesful, dominant, happy and stoic, weighing on the superego as basically an old dream of success that is becoming more and more unattainable but is still presented everywhere, is also in conflict with material reality. Being the breadwinner of a household where you have a wife that delivers reproductive labour and sexual gratification to you, while you earn the money and keep her dependent? Even with chauvinists that are deep into that ideological prison, households being able to earn enough money without both people working (often even more than two jobs) is not what we are seeing in the present and the future. So, this discrepancy has to be explained in a way, that is compatible with their ideology.

              As a side note: parts of the liberal, more well-off “left” (a very relative term here) will basically just give them the answer “well, you are a stupid, low-IQ chud loser, so its your own fault” - basically reinforcing the very “sink or swim, be succesful, if you can’t be, it means something about you is wrong” ideology that creates this whole mess to begin with.

              But of course, the answer many will then land on is a variant of my previous post: It worked in the past, right? An outside malevolent force must have corrupted this. It’s the feminists. It’s the Jews. It’s the insert enemy here. That is the core of it again - discrepancy between material reality and ideological demands and dreams within society. Concerning young men, the extreme right also has good illusionary ways to provide them with a sense of being powerful when they are in reality not, through violence that doesn’t threaten the upper classes, and relative privilege within their ideological stratified view of reality.

              Ironically, that material reality of proletarisation can even fuel “tradwife” romanticism for some women - basically, the dream of being a loved and loving housewife, being submissive to and dependent on their husband and his income, anything, just to escape the dread of having to work under current conditions without any of the security of the past. (Note that actual submissive impulses that people potentially have as a fetish are a whole other thing in that discussion, but it is relevant, that for some submissive people at least, that can of course also add to the allure of that fantasy, just as the idea of being a breadwinner that has a dependent person giving them sexual gratification and admiration is alluring to people with dominant fetishisations)

    • Draedron@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      4 months ago

      You are a hexbear lmao. You suck up to dictators around the world. I dont think we can take your comment serious since you always argue in bad faith.

      • Urist@lemmy.ml
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        4 months ago

        Yeah, obviously they are the laughing stock here… You should pay more mind to content than affiliations. Even though dbzer0 is a cool admin with a cool community, your comment does not portray you as such.

        • fine_sandy_bottom@discuss.tchncs.de
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          4 months ago

          pay more mind to content than affiliations

          That’s not really possible when commenters with certain affiliations are known to be manipulative and participate in bad faith.

          • Urist@lemmy.ml
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            4 months ago

            Eh, to the extent that Hexbear meme-culture is both prevalent and constitutes as participation in bad faith, that would be true. This was not an example of this, which only serves to prove that the reply was actually in bad faith itself.