Is that you? 😮

That’s still happening? I forgot all about that.

What?! Noooooooooo… Name one time that’s happened!

What technical limitations do you see? I feel like other than multireddits this place is basically equal to reddit.

Ya I just got to reddit for specific video game ones now basically. Or specific TV shows.

There’s porn on here. Lemmynsfw.com is actually the second most populous instance irrc (or top 3?). Just got to convince people to post to it. But then we got the same problem of trying to convince people to do that lol.

Fair. I think this graph of the personal savings rate the last 5 years explains everything. Both Biden and Harris were fighting an uphill battle against these numbers the whole time.

Notice how everyone’s savings goes up during pandemic relief and then tanks as those benefits end and inflation continues to stay high?

Like, this wasn’t “I’m sacrificing the Palestinian people for my own safety”, it was “This is literally the least bad option for Palestine as well.” People in Palestine understood this. But apparently it’s too emotionally charged for some online ‘leftists’.

This is quite hilarious considering the same people you’re defending.

See, every time a Dem loses, I’m told it’s messaging, but every time it’s pointed out what messages the Dem actually put out, it’s drowned out by the fact that both left and right do nothing but beat the drum on whatever they see as the Dem candidate’s weakness regardless of what their strengths are.

I don’t know, maybe something like saying the Palestinian people must be helped to “realize their right to dignity, security, freedom and self-determination” while calling for a ceasefire and saying she “will not be silent” on Gazan suffering?

Oh, wait, that’s right, the selfsame people who said “Calling for a ceasefire is all I need to vote for the Dem candidate” immediately moved their goalposts once it happened, because Palestinian genocide was never the actual issue. They don’t give a single fuck about more deaths or less deaths. They just want to play purity politics, and people giving them asspats for doing so are encouraging this behavior.

“Bullying is when you point out that a strategy is dogshit and senseless, and the more you do it, the more bullying it is.”

I hope not, because that’s what I’ve been saying about the Democratic electoral strategy since before the election lol. I see bullying as more ad hominem attacks, like telling people if they don’t vote for the person arming the person killing their family, you’ll exult in them all dieing or getting deported. Not saying you’ve done that specifically, buts it’s gotten pretty racist in here lately (but not as bad as Reddit at least).

Like, I don’t know what the fuck to tell you. You voted for Harris, so you clearly understand on some level that abstaining is a dogshit answer, but you seem to be bending backwards to accommodate morons who’ve just willfully assisted in the deaths of tens of thousands of people, minimum, for no other reason than their own vanity.

Sorry for the length of all this, I won’t blame you if you skip most of It. Adding spoiler tags so it doesn’t take up too much room in the thread. Honestly, this comment has been a great way to organize my thoughts and feeling on all this, too. It wasn’t when I started, I didn’t mean to subject you and Lemmy to it, I think we’re all just looking for catharsis right now lol.

I agree with everything you’re saying except for this part. A lot of voters are very dumb (they mostly voted for Trump and he is planning tariffs that will tank the economy, including for them, for example). But, the Democrats also need to adapt to the voter base and the issues they care about. I think both things can be true lol.

And you were trying to do that by throwing a whole other demographic under the bus. We shouldn’t be surprised this country is okay with genocide and then voted for Trump, because it reveals they were already primed for fascism and atomized enough to leave various groups behind.

For conservatives it’s women, LGBTQ people, and “the elite”, while for liberals it seems to be latino men, Muslims, and the working-class (and kinda trans people because she started getting super vague about helping them near the end of the campaign). The people who right now are like, “Well fuck you guys for voting Trump, I guess it’s every person for themselves, got to look after my own now”, well that’s how lots of people felt before the election when no one was helping them with the genocide, refused to even hear them out, so of course their turnout was depressed.

And they were a tiny minority, btw, if they all voted for Harris she still would’ve lost. More people didn’t turn out because their savings were decreased because their wages haven’t matched the rise in inflation. Even though Biden had helped lower inflation, people still felt left behind, and rather than not listen to them or say they’re wrong, they should’ve empathized with them and said, don’t worry we’ll help out.

We will never go forward if we continue on in this manner instead of having solidarity, but that can never happen if you guys keep interpreting warnings and advice as Russian bots and use that as an opportunity to tear down others, plug your ears, and prop up a genocide. And ya, I voted for Harris, they had some good policies, but it was a messaging thing. They should’ve taken the good economic stuff from their website (stopping price gouging and we’re going to hold companies accountable, the $25,000 to help buy a home thing, fighting pharmacy companies to make medicine affordable, etc), keep abortion in there as it was a strong issue, and maybe add some new stuff (we’ll bring back some pandemic measures to help you buy food and build up your savings again, like child tax credit or loans, because that’s when people remember having the most savings), don’t be afraid to say working-class instead of the middle-class, and then hammered that over and over again. Instead their most repeated talking points were that they’re saving democracy, they’ll reach out to neocon Republicans and put them in the cabinet, have the most lethal army in the world, and keep doing all the same stuff as the current Administration, a presently unpopular one. And abortion, but I think that was actually a good strategy, it just should have been supplemented with the other stuff.

There was also stuff they could’ve said to appease the Muslim voters while still being vague for the pro-genocide people, like “We will uphold the law with regards to selling weapons to allies.” It’s not a 100% yes on the arms embargo but it gives hope to people looking for any lifeline on the Gaza issue. It’s like what she about the trans thing.

But anyway, they didn’t do that, and the signs for this result were there when liberals, like the ones in this very thread, refused to abandon bullying as a strategy, and continued to think they could just gaslight people into thinking it would work after it didn’t work in 2016. Maybe it’ll work in 2028 if we still have democracy then, but only because people will be tired of Trump again by then and they’ll be able to run literally anyone to beat him (like in 2020).

So your solution is less criticism of the party? No wonder the Dems never learn.

Maybe I misinterpreted your comment, but I thought you were saying that Trump basically purposefully leaked the comments to sound tough on Putin, but wasn’t actually planning on following through at all, and instead was planning on actually helping Putin instead but purposefully didn’t leak that part. I compared it to a similar recent situation in the news.

The infrastructure bill and Lina Khan are the only things I’ve noticed. I think someone I know got a Pell Grant and was helped by that possibly? But ya, too many of these things are so mean-tested and you have to jump through hoops to get them that so many people don’t benefit that people end up not caring. It’s the equivalent of saying you got so many a band-aid for multiple stab wounds. Ya I guess it’s better than nothing but it’s not going to stop the bleeding and it’s definitely not good enough for the problems the country is facing and how people feel about it. The Democrats just blame the Republicans for being awful, and they are, but they also have an extremely limited imagination in what they promise and give. It ends up leading to the ratchet effect. The Republicans turn us right, and the Democrats only reverse a few things, so we end up more right than before. This trend isn’t sustainable and this combination is why we’re turning fascist today.

Reminds me of the leaks of when Biden wanted to sound tough on Netanyahu. Trump just wants to sound tough on Putin for a bit.

You can’t just assume everyone who didn’t vote is a leftist or did it for Palestine. That’s kinda crazy, and you have no proof of that. You’re just assuming that so you have an excuse to get mad at people who don’t deserve it instead of your precious DNC. More realistically, they’re just non-political people who don’t do research, didn’t care, and weren’t charged enough to go vote by the Dems message and rhetoric, and did they probably have a short as hell memory because they weren’t scared enough of Trump (maybe because he was a known quantity or something). Those people googling if Biden dropped out the night of the election or had no idea RFK dropped out? They’re probably more like them.

TERF Island isn’t much better. You’ll probably have to fight there, too. Once they’re done with fighting trans people, they’ll go back to fighting other LGBTQ people, it happens every time. But I get wanting to leave the US. I’ve been considering it, too. You got to do what’s best for your family.

No leftist thinks “Joe wasn’t that bad”. On his watch Israel has killed an estimated almost 200,000 people (using more accurate figures by the Lancet and people on the ground since their health center basically can’t count anymore since they don’t have the infrastructure), started their initiation of the general’s plan starving out Northern Gaza, made everyone but a doctor flee the last hospital in Northern Gaza, start taking over West Bank, killed a record number of journalists in any conflict ever, kill the people they were negotiating with multiple times, and let them start a war with Lebanon and Iran. Oh and also sent backup to Yemen and put troops in Israel to protect them from retribution since apparently Israel is the only country allowed to defend themselves. Trump will do the same thing, but just talk about it more. It’ll be tough for him to reach those heights, even if he sends more troops in, it’ll just be continuing the logical next step of what Biden was doing.

It’s pretty normal for people not to vote for someone genociding their family. It’s her fault, not the voters. The same way Democrats threw away the votes of the left and Palestinians because they didn’t care if they were being genocided is the same logic the right uses to vote for Trump for the economy despite all the damage he’ll do to women and other minorities. You’re all equally selfish and you don’t have the moral high ground when you’re supporting a genocide and quieting any dissent on it. People tried to say this could lose her the election, but nothing can be the politicians fault, of course, just the voters.

Anyway, turns out it wasn’t the genocide anyway. She lost Michigan because of it probably but it didn’t matter anywhere else, and she lost the election before it was even added. You can add up all the third party votes and it didn’t amount to shit. It was the economy. It always is. People in fucking rural Pennsylvania haven’t been reading hexbear posts or whatever. They just didn’t buy what she was selling.

Or course, if it was the genocide, that just proves what the left was saying all along: she’s got to do better on this issue or she can lose the election, and she’d rather lose than not do a genocide. Turned out she probably would’ve lost either way but still, hopefully the next Democrat candidate will do better, or we can supplant the party with a new one that can run an actual campaign. You can keep doing the bullying thing, but it didn’t work this election, or in 2016, and it won’t work next election either. Stop trying to convince the voters to care about what you want them to care about, and telling them not to care about what you don’t care about, and time to meet them where they are.

Good idea. I haven’t used my local library in awhile, but I’m worried about library funding with Trump. It’s why this is the first time in a long time I looked into a book from the library. I’m using any excuse to like you said, argue their services are being actively used. It’s good to hear it confirmed that it does actually help librarians and that they’re encouraging that.

Because she’s party of the administration in power and people aren’t happy right now, so they blame whoever is in power even if it’s not quite their fault. They don’t care that the rate of inflation slowed to basically normal, they care that things are still expensive because their wages haven’t risen to match the raised inflation and their savings are lower. It used to be easier for incumbents, but as the conditions in the US continue to degrade from late stage capitalism and 60 years of neoliberal policies, I have a feeling it will continue to be the opposite.

Holding the line won’t work with people getting poorer every year (and if your wage doesn’t match inflation or the rising costs of housing or transportation, that’s what happening, you’re getting poorer).