This is why voting needs to be really easy. If a phone app/website is good enough for banking, it is good enough for voting.
I knew it would be that Tom Scott video
Yeah, I think it’s the best detailed, but beginner-friendly, overview of why electronic voting is a bad idea. Heck, I’m Australian too, and we treat pens as too high-tech for our elections because they could be switched for ones with disappearing ink.
IMO analogue is just better for elections. Whether mail-in or not, there’s a physical object with your vote attached, not just a few bytes in a computer. It is far, far harder for a bad actor to control an election when they have to contend with faking thousands of bits of paper.
How would that not just make them vote due to whatever bullshit commercial they saw the day before?
How is that any different to now, beyond just more people being disenfranchised from voting due to not being able to stand in line for hours?
Its different in that they actually have to take effort to vote so that would tend toward more educated voters and ones that actually care and are not just swayed for a moment while laying in bed.
more educated voters
Yeah, no - that’s not how it works in the US.
There is only one political party intent on making it harder to vote (GOP), as they have long deduced that they are unable to win when voter turnout-out is high. Reminder that the only time a Republican president won the popular vote in the last 30+ years was in 2004 - and required both 9/11 and the incumbency advantage to get it done.
Conservatives don’t want educated voters, they just want to incense their (gullible) base and disenfranchise everyone else from voting.
If conservatives are the ones that dont want educated voters, why do the democrats directly seek to get younger people to vote and even want to lower the voting age?
Why are you conflating age with intelligence?
I CORRELATE age with knowing what is going and being deceived less. So now see above question.
No one is trying to get the voting age lowered. Could some people be talking about it and some media hacks focus on that talk? Sure, but not anyone with any power to do anything. It’s like those on the right who want to increase it again to 21. Are there some talking about it? Sure. Will anything be done about it? Not anymore chance than it would be lowered to under 18. It’s a BS media talking point click bait
Sorry man but you are wrong. It was a couple years ago, but they had an actual vote on this and about half of house democrats voted to lower the age, and virtually no republicans did. Democrats would like to lower the age because they would get more votes. I can look it up if you wish, but its a thing they want.
I disagree that we need to cater to the laziest people in the country to get their vote. Voting is already very easy, especially in states with a mail-in ballot. If you can’t even be bothered to open a letter, fill in a couple of bubbles, sign your name, and drop an envelope in your mailbox, then idk that we actually want your opinion on who should run the country.
By “you” I just mean anyone, not actually you.
Disabled people exist so it wouldn’t just be “catering to lazy people.” And like you pointed out, not all states have mail in ballots. An online option would be good for people who literally can’t stand in line hours.
As someone who works in IT, an online option is a terrible idea for a number of reasons. Instead, every registered voter should get a mail in ballot automatically sent, and if you prefer to vote in person you can do that instead.
Clearly the office of President should be left vacant.
Ideally an electoral system should have the “none of the above” option. If it gets the majority the elections are repeated with new candidates, and previous ones are disqualified for a number of years.
I’d rather have ranked choice voting. And get rid of the stupid electoral college.
A national RCV race would be an absolute nightmare to count if it ever became remotely competitive. Approval Voting is better in general, but especially for big, competitive elections.
This will likely be the first year I won’t be voting. I moved to a state with no early voting, and it’s all in person. Additionally, I’m in a blue city with a red state government, so voting locations are minimal, and my job only allows 2 hours to vote. I don’t really see it happening.
So mississippi?
Indiana, actually.
You can vote early in Indiana.
Looks like I misunderstood what I had read previously. Thank you.
All of that means that it is much more important that you do vote; they are actively trying to stop you for a reason.
I’m well aware, but I have to go to work. I’m just not sure how it is possible while meeting the obligations of my survival.
I’m not sure what is worse: Soviet elections without choice or American elections without choosing.
Leaving the office empty for a term is the only democratic outcome.
…okay, you’ve convinced me. As someone from a beige state that’s been presidentially blue for over 30 years (meaning my vote means dick-all due to EC shenanigans), I will continue to show up and vote to make sure it stays that way.
Maybe one day I’ll even get an inspiring candidate to vote for.
I’m assuming you’re showing up for more than presidential elections, though, right? Where your vote counts even more?
If you think presidential participation is low, you should see state and local numbers. Or don’t, if you’re prone to depression.
Yes. Unfortunately I live in a nepo congressional district where the mob boss’s — I’m sorry, party power broker’s — little brother has a seat for life and runs unopposed every primary. And said “power broker” is VERY deeply embedded in the state dem machine (and much of the business dealings in and out of the public view), to the point where court action was needed to stop the ballot placement fuckery.
It’s also next to impossible to dig up information on county commissioners, township committee, and school board candidates. “John Doe was born in neighboring Othertown but has lived and worked in Hometown for decades. He has three children in the local school system with his wife Jane. ‘I care very deeply about policy and I think things should be good, not bad.’ John likes to go for long walks in the local park when he’s not hang gliding at his mountain vacation house.”
Unfortunately techniques like this work, as (at least) one of the Moms Against Liberty types got voted onto the school board last term. The term before that, they were all mask-off for the standard conservative Covid crap and lost… but not by much. They scrubbed their online presence to be as generic as possible… and the only POC on the board lost her seat.
And yes, I am prone to depression.
And yes, I am prone to depression.
Felt.
You intend to vote red?
No, they were saying they didn’t bother since their party was winning anyway. Easy to misread though.
Ah, that still seems like a risky move.
Yup, that was the point. They used to do that but now realize they might actually be needed.
I did vote in 2000. “Wait… so the son of the VP during Regan’s Reign of Dementia is really a for real candidate?” Didn’t matter, state went blue, Florida did not because some guy named Chad Brooks hung his brother in front of SCOTUS.
I did vote in 2004. “Well this guy is completely forgettable but at least junior is going to follow in daddy’s footsteps and be a one pump chump.” Didn’t matter, state went blue, I begin to question reality.
I did vote in 2008. “I have no idea who this guy is but he talks a good game and he pisses off the bigots.” Didn’t matter, state went blue, record numbers came out to vote, and my mom suddenly cared about politics because she’s a racist piece of shit.
I did vote in 2012. “Let’s keep this rolling please and thank you.” Didn’t matter, state went blue, Bain Capital went on to kill both KayBee Toys and Toys R Us as revenge.
I did not vote in 2016. “These choices are bullshit, what the hell.” Didn’t matter, state went blue, large areas of empty space went red, and the oval office went orange despite almost three million more people voting for Buttery Males over Fraud Inc.
I did vote in 2020. “This election smells of mothballs and Icy Hot but at least I don’t have to stand in line.” Didn’t matter, state went blue, record numbers came out to vote, fascists went mask-off.
I will vote in 2024 (and already voted in the primary, which… didn’t matter). “I truly believe we are living in some sort of simulation, how can this possibly be real life?”
Pass the coconuts.
hey, maybe it doesn’t feel like it matters, but the margin of popular vote victory does mean something for the effectiveness and legitimacy of the ruling party (especially in the face of coup attempts)
Thank you for elaborating, and apologies for assuming I fully understood.
I totally get the existential dread, anxiety, and depression. Never easy to cope with.
All good, you covered for me while I was trying to be witty >_>
Let’s not forget the third party and Harambe stuff. Some of that flipped swing states Red.
aren’t the libertarians on the right wing of politics and the largest 3rd party?
I don’t think Harambe got that many votes but I’m too lazy to look that up
Australia has mandatory voting. Why not the US?
Just wondering, how is mandatory voting enforced? I assume vote cops don’t show up at your door… What if you turn in a ballot with no choice marked?
You are allowed to cast an empty ballot, or write in a candidate who isn’t running. You just have to participate. When you go, you get marked off an electoral roll. Those people who don’t show up get a fine in the mail of something like a couple of hundred dollars. Not bad in isolation but this applies to state, federal and local elections so about 3 times in a 3-5 year period, for something which takes all of 15 minutes out of your day.
I very much prefer California then, which mails every registered voter a return-postage-paid ballot and provides locked ballot boxes if you prefer, as well as having in-person voting places. I mail mine in, at least a week early, and if I didn’t get the text notifications I could walk in and do provisional. My spouse is basically bedbound but can vote from home.
I think we can request to vote by post although I’m not really sure. We can vote early in person though, and many people do
We can. And pre-poll votes. We don’t need to mail forms to everyone as most people can and will make it to a polling place on the day.
We can also vote out of state or from outside the country at an embassy or High Commission
And you can buy a sausage on a slice of bread
You receive a penalty notice in the mail and have to pay a fine. Similar to a traffic infringement or parking fine.
All elections are held on a weekend and voting booths are everywhere, to make it a little easier for everyone to vote.
You can choose to not mark the ballot, no one would know. As long as you turn up to a booth and get your name marked off, then you are considered to have voted.
As a result, voter turnout is generally over 90%.
And yet they still regularly have a right wing government fucking things up for them. Perhaps turnout is not the primary issue after all.
Eh, not fucking things up in the way that seems to happen in the states. Our conservative government is much more corporate oriented and less strong on climate policy, but they aren’t insane. They don’t tend to strip rights from women, and almost the entire party supported gay marriage legalisation with many openly stating they personally disagreed with it but understood that their constituents needs should come before their own opinions.
Edit: I guess to expand upon my point, mandatory voting means candidates need to run on a platform which considers the needs of the whole population. Optional voting means that if 50% of the population doesn’t turn up, and 30% of the remaining population feels very strongly about an extreme view, it becomes easier for that extreme view to win an election.
Also preferential voting means you can actually vote for the candidates you want (you can’t ‘waste’ your vote by voting for someone other than the big two parties like in US), and (afaik) when your do this, and a candidate wins based on your lower preferences, that candidate gets data on what your first preferences were (so e.g. they know that a certain percentage of my voters had a higher preference for this other party, which means next time around I should possibly consider adopting some policy from this other party).
(I might have gotten some details wrong, someone feel free to correct me)
Yep. Us Aussies can only waste our vote deliberately. If we want to vote we can number every box. And because we have a single transferable vote we have a lot of boxes, the last senate vote form had more than 40, and you could vote any of them first
And if the rest of your electorate didn’t rate your number 1, you might agree on number 2
News reports call out the losers — this party is last, its votes get distributed per the voters’ forms and you watch for which bars on the graph grow as the shooters and hunters party (I didn’t get to vote in the election where the sun ripened warm tomato party failed to get elected) is excluded. A forty horse race is better than a two horse race
It’s also nice to choose your actual preference, even if it isn’t popular
Not sure how it is there, but in a few areas you basically lose your right to vote of you don’t. Which is fair motivation.
Teacher: If you don’t go to school, you’ll be punished!
Student: Oh yea, what’s the punishment?
T: Suspension from school
S: Great, glad we’re on the same page, see ya never
Looks like they mostly pay fines. So let’s figure out approximately how much money it will make and sell it to the Republicans as a money making venture!
Because mandatory anything is spun as an attack on our freedoms, and our generally-undereducated masses eat it up.
We could probably spin it around and give a tiny tax break for those who vote. It’ll still definitely get attacked though.
We could probably spin it around and give a tiny tax break for those who vote.
Now you’re talking!
It’ll still definitely get attacked though.
Yeah. It’ll be presented as unnacceptable to us temporarily-embarassed-billionaires.
If they can find a way to block student loan forgiveness they’ll find a way to stop this. Just need to get it in front of the SC and it’ll be squashed.
We could probably spin it around and give a tiny tax break for those who vote.
Now you’re talking!
Make tax refunds and all tax write-offs contingent on proving you voted. >:D
You still have the freedom to not vote. However you have to go to a polling station and get your name marked off but no-one can force you to write on the piece of paper.
Because the government really doesn’t want people to have a say. People are stupid. So let’s just have a mock vote with some old wizard math that adds up to who the fuck knows but your guy lost.
Netherland doesn’t have mandatory voting and yet our turnup is around 75-80% consistently for years
Source https://www.parlement.com/id/vh8lnhrp8wsz/opkomst_bij_tweede_kamerverkiezingen
That said, it seems the US has a turnup problem to solve
millions of libertarian party voters not turning up /j
Lmao the same people suppressing voting rights wont agree to that
Would input from the people who otherwise wouldn’t have bothered to show up be useful?
It’s a dangerous line of reason you’re skirting around there buddy.
For anyone like myself that was interested in 2020:
Found it here (Although the data source is shown on the chart)
I think the most interesting thing about these two maps, is that Georgia kind of proves the people wrong who don’t vote “because it wouldn’t make a difference in my state”.
I think trump woke a lot of people up. clearly there’s still ground to cover but it looks like clear progress in voter turnout
Everyone was also at home/working from home/on flex schedules due to covid in 2020. People had time to vote, they had time to research things and take part in political discourse. Everyone always forgets that little historical tidbit.
2024 may hit record low voter turnout as the nazi’s ratchet up anti voter laws, removing polling places, and companies keep putting the economic screws on their workers with stagnant pay and forced return-to-office so citizens don’t have time to think about the political process.deleted by creator
The problem I have with mandatory voting is, besides the fact that it would require a national holiday and changes to timing that would already drive up voter participation… given current political behavior in the US it’s going to drive a lot of apathy voting to just avoid the consequences that could be more harmful than not.
I absolutely think every citizen should be voting, but it’s also not really right to just force them to do it- Give them the resources (time off) and the reason to actually do it, and we’ll have turnout of 70%+.
Another shout out to all the states that have at-home voting through the mail. You get a pamphlet with their stances and websites and you have a long time to get it in. It’s an amazing thing.
This is an example for the primaries in August: https://voter.votewa.gov/genericvoterguide.aspx?e=888&c=99#/
That’s why Colorado is on the 2016 chart with such good turnout. It’s incredibly easy to vote here. You’re automatically registered. You automatically receive a blue book weeks ahead. You automatically get a mail in ballot. And there’s thousands of drop-off locations. Mine is literally two streets over. Takes like 4 minutes to walk there, I don’t even bother to mail it in because it’s almost just as much work to do that as drop it off.
I live in Oregon and can vouch for this system. Voting is super easy. You get mailed your ballot, you can fill it out and mail it back at your leisure, or turn it into your local county drop box if it’s too close to election day. The system is secure, all ballots are verified and create their own paper trail. No voter fraud, and anyone who claims there is is just a piece of shit.
Seconding your vouching. It really is painless.
In most of the countries of the World elections are on Sunday and Saturday for this exact reason, US could change to weekend voting days as well:
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/46ukem/so_camerons_eu_referendum_is_on_a_thursday_which/
Another confirmation that Russia is European country.
Also, US, please fix yet another thing you are worse at than Russia.
Who debated that. Historically, culturally Russia is European. Most of the population of Russia lives on the western side of the Urals.
But using it as a good example of elections, well… In the US you can choose from 2 candidates. In russia you can select from 1…
Can Biden just say fuck it and declare a national holiday? Would that help at all? What about making voting mandatory like we have in Australia? You get a small fine if you don’t vote which is usually enough incentive.
Having a national work holiday would do wonders for voter turnout. Most people in states who are required to vote in person can’t get the time off to visit a poll booth while they’re open.
It wouldn’t really help I think, I think what needs to be done is a change in the verbage and communication, nov 5th should be communicated as the deadline, and early voting should be renamed to just be the voting period.
In my state early voting starts on Oct 17th, meaning you have more than two week for in person voting.
Absentee ballots (mail in) can be cast as soon as you get it, which is typically almost 2 months in advance.
Besides, the people who would get ‘national vote day’ off as a holiday are the people who probably already have the means to get to a ballot box.
2020 was the highest US voter turnout in over 100 years (percentage wise), and it was still atrocious. Also worth noting, trump got the second most votes of any presidential nominee in US history, thankfully beat by Biden, but it’s not like all of the new voters were purely against trump.
Wow this diddnot voté guy seems wildly popular 🫨
I’d love to see something like ballot included in tax returns (for folks who don’t otherwise request a ballot). Near-mandatory voting, with abstaining being allowed.
None of my coworkers that want Trump to win are registered to vote. I don’t know if that means anything.
If all of the people who didn’t vote because “It would never make a difference” actually voted, we could have had a constitutional amendment by now removing the electoral college.
“We’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas.”
Has someone run on that platform before? Can’t vote to change the system if no one is running (allowed to run) who plans to change the system.
Seriously
I love how the takeaway from this is “yeah fuck politics amirite” and not “dude it is THERE FOR THE TAKING for anyone who is inspiring enough to actually get people voting for them”*
(*and who feels like overcoming the significant hurdles of the media and the DNC cooperating to do their best to tank their campaign which they will definitely do if you are inspiring enough for people to want to vote for you)
THERE FOR THE TAKING I tell you
Nah. There’s always going to be those, “They’ll never win”, “they’re not a practical choice”, “Voting third party is a waste” types.
Democrats and Republicans can only agree on one thing. They don’t want more competition. I think that’s why voter apathy is so bad
I have a former roommate that her reason for not voting is that she doesn’t think it effects her. She thinks she can live an apolitical life because she just doesn’t want to deal with it. Meanwhile she can’t afford anything because our state makes it really hard to get food stamps
voting third party will just split the vote for the side you want though (and thats a big problem when the opponent is literal evil or whatever, and the margins are so tight), we need to switch to a better voting system like ranked choice voting to allow more than 2 options.
Wait, what was that quiet bit in the middle? /s
democracy may not be available in all areas, ask your local TV conglomerate whether democracy is right for you
Just having the vote on a non working day or giving (almost) everyone obligatory paid leave that day is way easier and could already have quite an impact.
we really do need a default option for “fuck off im not voting”
Are the states that have a majority swing states, so have more advertising and campaigning, or are they just more politically active?
Politically active. MN is decidedly not a swing state and is here.
