Only 7% say they would pay more, which to my mind is the percentage of respondents who have no idea what “AI” in its current bullshit context even is
Or they know a guy named Al and got confused. ;)
A man walks down the street He says why am I short of attention Got a short little span of attention And woe my nights are so long
Maybe I’m in the minority here, but I’d gladly pay more for Weird Al enhanced hardware.
Hardware breaks into a parody of whatever you are doing
Me - laughing and vibing
I figure they’re those “early adopters” who buy the New Thing! as soon as it comes out, whether they need it or not, whether it’s garbage or not, because they want to be seen as on the cutting edge of technology.
I’m fine with NPUs / TPUs (AI-enhancing hardware) being included with systems because it’s useful for more than just OS shenanigans and commercial generative AI. Do I want Microsoft CoPilot Recall running on that hardware? No.
However I’ve bought TPUs for things like Frigate servers and various ML projects. For gamers there’s some really cool use cases out there for using local LLMs to generate NPC responses in RPGs. For “Smart Home” enthusiasts things like Home Assistant will be rolling out support for local LLMs later this year to make voice commands more context aware.
So do I want that hardware in there so I can use it MYSELF for other things? Yes, yes I do. You probably will eventually too.
I wish someone would make software that utilizes things like a M.2 coral TPU, to enhance gameplay like with frame gen, or up scaling for games and videos. Some GPUs are starting to even put M.2 slots on the GPU, if the latency from Mobo M.2 to PCIe GPU would be too slow.
Tbh this is probably for things like DLSS, captions, etc. Not necessarily for chatbots or generative art.
I would pay for AI-enhanced hardware…but I haven’t yet seen anything that AI is enhancing, just an emerging product being tacked on to everything they can for an added premium.
My Samsung A71 has had devil AI since day one. You know that feature where you can mostly use fingerprint unlock but then once a day or so it ask for the actual passcode for added security. My A71 AI has 100% success rate of picking the most inconvenient time to ask for the passcode instead of letting me do my thing.
Anything AI actually enhanced would be advertising the enhancement not the AI part.
I use it heavily at work nowadays. It would be nice to run it locally.
I’m curious what you use it for at work.
I’m a programmer so when learning a new framework or library I use it as an interactive docs that allows follow up questions.
I also use it to generate things like regex and SQL queries.
It’s also really good at refactoring code and other repetitive tasks like that
it does seem like a good translator for the less human readable stuff like regex and such. I’ve dabbled with it a bit but I’m a technical artist and haven’t found much use for it in the things I do.
https://github.com/huggingface/candle
You can look into this, however it’s not what this discussion is about
An NPU, or Neural Processing Unit, is a dedicated processor or processing unit on a larger SoC designed specifically for accelerating neural network operations and AI tasks.
Exactly what we are talking about.
Stick to the discussion of paying a premium for hardware not the software
Not sure what you mean? The hardware runs the software tasks more efficiently.
You don’t need AI enhanced hardware for that, just normal ass hardware and you run AI software on it.
But you can run more complex networks faster. Which is what I want.
Maybe I’m just not understanding what AI-enabled hardware is even supposed to mean
It’s hardware specifically designed for running AI tasks. Like neural networks.
An NPU, or Neural Processing Unit, is a dedicated processor or processing unit on a larger SoC designed specifically for accelerating neural network operations and AI tasks. Unlike general-purpose CPUs and GPUs, NPUs are optimized for a data-driven parallel computing, making them highly efficient at processing massive multimedia data like videos and images and processing data for neural networks
It’s like rgb all over again.
At least rgb didn’t make a giant stock market bubble…
DLSS and XeSS (XMX) are AI and they’re noticably better than non-hardware accelerated alternatives.
In the 2010s, it was cramming a phone app and wifi into things to try to justify the higher price, while also spying on users in new ways. The device may even a screen for basically no reason.
In the 2020s, those same useless features now with a bit of software with a flashy name that removes even more control from the user, and allows the manufacturer to spy on even further the user.Already had that Google thingy for years now. The USB/nvme device for image recognition. Can’t remember what it’s called now. Cost like $30.
Edit: Google coral TPU
I would pay extra to be able to run open LLM’s locally on Linux. I wouldn’t pay for Microsoft’s Copilot stuff that’s shoehorned into every interface imaginable while also causing privacy and security issues. The context matters.
That’s why NPU’s are actually a good thing. The ability to run LLM local instead of sending everything to Microsoft/Open AI for data mining will be great.
I hate to be that guy, but do you REALLY think that on-device AI is going to prevent all your shit being sent to anyone who wants it, in the form of “diagnostic data” or “usage telemetry” or whatever weasel-worded bullshit in the terms of service?’
They’ll just send the results for “quality assurance” instead of doing the math themselves and save a bundle on server hosting.
All your unattended date will be taken (and some of the attended one). This doesn’t mean you should stop to attend your data. Even of you’re somehow forced to use Windows instead open alternative, it doesn’t mean you can’t dual boot or use other privacy conscious devices when dealing with your sensitive data.
Closed/proprietary OS and hardware driver can’t be considered safe by design)
but do you REALLY think that on-device AI is going to prevent all your shit being sent to anyone who wants it
Yes, obviously, especially if you are running all open source software.
The other 16% do not know what AI is or try to sell it. A combination of both is possible. And likely.
The biggest surprise here is that as many as 16% are willing to pay more…
Acktually it’s 7% that would pay, with the remainder ‘unsure’
I mean, if framegen and supersampling solutions become so good on those chips that regular versions can’t compare I guess I would get the AI version. I wouldn’t pay extra compared to current pricing though
Unless you’re doing music or graphics design there’s no usecase. And if you do, you probably have high end GPU anyway
I could see use for local text gen, but that apparently eats quite a bit more than what desktop PCs could offer if you want to have some actually good results & speed. Generally though, I’d rather want separate extension cards for this. Making it part of other processors is just going to increase their price, even for those who have no use for it.
There are local models for text gen - not as good as chatGPT but at the same time they’re uncensored - so it may or may not be useful
Yes, I know - that’s my point. But you need the necessary hardware to run those models in a performative way. Waiting a minute to produce some vaguely relevant gibberish is not going to be of much use. You could also use generative text for other applications, such as video game NPCs, especially all those otherwise useless drones you see in a lot of open world titles could gain a lot of depth.
The dedicated TPM chip is already being used for side-channel attacks. A new processor running arbitrary code would be a black hat’s wet dream.
It will be.
IoT devices are already getting owned at staggering rates. Adding a learning model that currently cannot be secured is absolutely going to happen, and going to cause a whole new large batch of breaches.
The “s” in IoT stands for “security”
It’s not a full CPU. It’s more limited than GPU.
That’s why I wrote “processor” and not CPU.
Do you have an article on that handy? I like reading about side channel and timing attacks.
That’s insane. How can they be doing security hardware and leave a timing attack in there?
Thank you for those links, really interesting stuff.
A big letdown for me is, except with some rare cases, those extra AI features useless outside of AI. Some NPUs are straight out DSPs, they could easily run OpenCL code, others are either designed to not be able to handle any normal floating point numbers but only ones designed for machine learning, or CPU extensions that are just even bigger vector multipliers for select datatypes (AMX).
Bro, just add it to the pile of rubbish over there next to the 3D movies and curved TVs
As with any proprietary hardware on a GPU it all comes down to third party software support and classically if the market isn’t there then it’s not supported.
Assuming theres no catch-on after 3-4 cycles I’d say the tech is either not mature enough, too expensive with too little results or (as you said) theres generally no interest in that.
Maybe it needs a bit of marturing and a re-introduction at a later point.
I’d pay extra for no AI in any of my shit.
I’m sure that’s coming up.
As a yearly fee for DRMd televisions that require Internet access to work at all maybe
I would already like to buy a 4k TV that isn’t smart and have yet to find it. Please don’t add AI into the mix as well :(
Signage TVs are good for this. They’re designed to run 24/7 in store windows displaying advertisements or animated menus, so they’re a bit pricey, and don’t expect any fancy features like HDR, but they’ve got no smarts whatsoever. What they do have is a slot you can shove your own smart gadget into with a connector that breaks oug power, HDMI etc. which someone has made a Raspberry Pi Compute Module carrier board for, so if you’re into, say, Jellyfin, you can make it smart completely under your own control with e.g. libreELEC. Here’s a video from Jeff Geerling going into more detail: https://youtu.be/-epPf7D8oMk
Alternatively, if you want HDR and high refresh rates, you’re okay with a smallish TV, and you’re really willing to splash out, ASUS ROG makes 48" 4K 10-bit gaming monitors for around $1700 US. HDMI is HDMI, you can plug whatever you want into there.
AllTVs are smart TVs if they have no internet access
I was just thinking the other day how I’d love to “root” my TV like I used to root my phones. Maybe install some free OS instead
You can if you have a pre-2022 LG TV. It’s more akin to jailbreaking since you can’t install a custom OS, but it does give you more control.
We got a Sceptre brand TV from Walmart a few years ago that does the trick. 4k, 50 inch, no smart features.
Look into commercial displays
The simple trick to turn a “smart” TV into a regular one is too cut off its internet access.
Mine still takes several seconds to boot android TV just so it can display the HDMI input, even if not connected to internet. It has to be always plugged on the power because if there is a power cut, it needs to boot android TV again.
My old dumb TV did that in a second without booting an entire OS. Next time I need a big screen, it will be a computer monitor.
Except it will still run like shit and may send telemetry via other means to your neighbors same brand TV
I’ve never heard of that. Do you have a source on that? And how would it run like shit if you’re using something like a Chromecast?
I don’t know about the telemetry, but my smart tv runs like shit after being on for a few hours. Only a full power cycle makes it work properly again.
I got a roku tv and i don’t even know what that means cuz my tele will never see the outside world
Still uses the shitty ‘smart’ operating system to handle inputs and settings.
I just bought a commercial display directly from the Bengal stadium. Still has Wi-Fi.
I just disconnected my smart TV from the internet. Nice and dumb.
Still slow UI.
If only signage displays would have the fidelity of a regular OLED consumer without the business-usage tax on top.What do you use the UI for? I just turn my TV on and off. No user interface needed. Only a power button on the remote.
I don’t have a TV, but doesn’t a smart TV require internet access? Why not just… not give it internet access? Or do they come with their own mobile data plans now meaning you can’t even turn off the internet access?
A lot of TVs are requiring an account login before being able to use it.
OK, that’s really fucked. What the hell? Wait a moment… that means they could turn the use of the TV into a subscription at any time! That’s crazy…
They continually try to get ob the Internet, it’s basically malware at this point. The on board SoC is also usually comically underpowered so the menus stutter.
I never needed a TV, but now I for sure am not getting one.
IDK why people are downvoting you, I am sure you’re not alone with that sentiment.
I am generally unwilling to pay extra for features I don’t need and didn’t ask for.
raytracing is something I’d pay for even if unasked, assuming they meaningfully impact the quality and dont demand outlandish prices.
And they’d need to put it in unasked and cooperate with devs else it won’t catch on quickly enough.
Remember Nvidia Ansel?
I was recently looking for a new laptop and I actively avoided laptops with AI features.
Look, me too, but, the average punter on the street just looks at AI new features and goes OK sure give it to me. Tell them about the dodgy shit that goes with AI and you’ll probably get a shrug at most
