Is there a bee-ologist who can tell me if hornets are wasps, or are they their own thing?
The wasps around here have always been pretty chill around me, but I get wary around hornets.
So, first of all a bee-ologist can only help you marginally, as bees are in the same order as wasps, hornets and ants but relatively far removed from them. Hornets (genus vespa) and classic wasps (genus vespula) on the other hand share the same subfamily vespinae and are both considered wasps. This was a nice short dive into wikipedia. As I am a crystallographer any real entomologist can feel free to correct me.
My dad’s not a bee-ologist. He’s an apiarist(bee keeper). He is suuuuuper knowledgeable about wasps, hornets, and ants too because like me he’s a fuckin nerd!
I have not a single thing other than that to add to the conversation! 🥳🥳🥳🥳
Ok, fine, educate me, what do wasps contribute to the environment?
They’re pollinators. A popular example is figs but you’ll see them in flowers just like bees.
They eat the things that eat the things you eat.
Yeah… well the also eat my peaches and plums. So they eat my food, and that just ain’t cool. On top of that they set up shop by my front door and then sting me for just walking into MY house where I was letting them make a little room of their own. Not no more. Them bitchass mfers are back in hell where they belong, and my world is much better since I opened that portal for them.
yea, ok, we got rid of our peaches anyway, it wasn’t that bad :D but yea, keep boundaries, ok.
… they eat me?
Many wasp species, while not considered pollinators, still transport pollen and pollinate plants. Others hunt pest insects. There are also many species that are vital as prey for birds
Figs.
That’s only some types of figs and one type of tiny wasp. Most figs we eat are virgin fruit.
People who post shit like this are being intentionally obtuse and provocative. “Wasp” is a big tent classification, and what everyone else thinks of are a few specific creatures.
A wasp is any insect of the narrow-waisted suborder Apocrita of the order Hymenoptera which is neither a bee nor an ant;
Vast majority of things that are “wasps” don’t bite/sting and many are important pollinators.
The bitey stingy ones? Fuck em.
You lost me at the end. Now you’re the one being obtuse and provocative. Just because something stings or bites doesn’t mean it isn’t good for the environment.
Just because something is good for the environment doesn’t mean the environment can’t live without it
The world would survive an extinction event given enough time, that doesn’t mean the loss of biodiversity is acceptable.
Fuck you too, then
As someone who has a live and let live attitude towards most insects…when I got swarmed by ground wasps while weeding out my garden I had no mercy for them after. Aggressive doesn’t even describe how pissed they get.
It was the first time I didn’t feel bad about using insecticide. So yeah, the hyper aggressive, stinging ones can fuck right off.
I’ve found the best thing to use against wasps is diatomaceous earth. It’s non-toxic, and just very tiny silicate animals that get into their joints. It kills the entire nest and not much else around it.
That’s what they used when the wasps were in my siding and stinging me in my bed at night.
Oh that’s a great idea! I didn’t know diatomaceous earth worked on wasps.
I’ve used it to keep ticks and fleas out of the lawn area my dogs play in, and to get rid of ants.
I don’t know why it didn’t occur to me to dump it on the wasps, I guess I just thought they were too big? Doesn’t it work by puncturing their exoskeleton and basically sucking all their fluids out?(I could be misinformed on that)
Either way I’ll go that route if I run into that issue again! Then I don’t have to worry about contaminated areas of my lawn.
Thank you for the tip!!!
Shitty wasps like Yellow Jackets give almost all the other wasps a bad reputation. Yellow Jackets are mean and spiteful, even when they aren’t protecting their nest.
Most other eusocial wasps are pretty docile, unless you mess with their nest or really go out of your way to harass them.
In many parts of the world, like my own, there are far more species of solitary wasps than eusocial wasps. Solitary wasps are nearly all non-aggressive, they don’t have communal nests to defend, and they basically don’t have time to fuck around with stinging shit because they are too busy building a chamber for their eggs, collecting food for their upcoming progeny, and trying to stay fed and hydrated while doing it.
So what I’m getting at is that most wasps I encounter on a regular basis are pretty chill. Really, this goes for bees as well. Most of the ones I see on a regular basis are solitary types and non-aggressive. The most aggressive bees I tend to encounter are male carpenter bees. They are highly territorial and they’ll even buzz a human to scare them off. However, there’s no threat. Male bees and wasps cannot sting, they do not even have stingers.
The most aggressive bees I tend to encounter are male carpenter bees. They are highly territorial and they’ll even buzz a human to scare them off. However, there’s no threat.
No threat of stinging, anyway. They will absolutely wreak havoc on a wood framed house.
bzzzzbzzzBZZZZZ
Yes, sir, I see you. I see your little pile of sawdust on the fence, too. No, I’m not going to screw with it. I’m just installing this gate latch."
bzzzbzbbzbbzbzbzbzbzzzzz
This would go a lot faster if I didn’t have to keep ducking.
BZZZZZZ
Okay, I’m done, jeez.
BZZZZZzzzbzzzzbzzzz
…aaaaand under the fascia board it goes. Shit.
As far as I’m aware, it’s the females that dig the holes in wood as a nesting chamber, not the males. So I don’t think the males are even a thread to a wood framed house.
The females wouldn’t be a threat either if the males could just learn to keep it in their pantsTechnically correct is the best kind of correct.
I love carpenter bees. ❤️
You like having your property destroyed?
No, of course not. I’ve put out traps for them before. Then we’re really bad when I first moved into this house and I killed a lot the first two years I lived here. I rarely see them now but I still see them occasionally. If their numbers get crazy again I’ll put traps out again. For better or worse they’re the most common solitary bee in my area. I probably see at least 10x as many carpenter bees as bumble bees. I know because I’m always looking for those fuzzy butts lol.
Fair enough, seeing an occasional one is fine. I moved into a house with an infestation a while back, there were hundreds of them living in the porch rafters. There were dozens of them swarming the porch at any given time during the day.
Traps did nothing for me. I used liquid nails and filled in their holes at night while they were sleeping. 10% would chew their way back out, so I repeated until they were gone.
I don’t mind bees in general, but I have a distaste for carpenter bees after that experience.
We have paper wasps around here. They bump you before they sting you. Like “hey bump we got a nest here bump stay away bump” I’ve only been stung when I was shaking something out next to a nest and they saw it as aggressive + too close.
Yep, lots of bees and wasps do this because they don’t actually want to sting defensively if it can be avoided, so they are merely trying to intimidate a potential threat. Unfortunately, it’s very common for people to panic and behave erratically in response, and that tends to make the critters feel like they are in danger, so they do end up stinging. It basically becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.
Bees, wasps, ok, got it.
But mosquitoes? I’be yet to find a biologist that would advocate for preservation of mosquitos. Kill them with fire.
Ehem
where is this from?
There’s a backstory that’s revealed throughout the first Lilo and Stitch movie that Agent Bubbles was in the CIA in Roswell NM in the 60s and was able to smooth over an intergalactic incident by convincing the intergalactic government that earth is a critical ecosystem for protecting the endangered mosquito and to classify Earth as a wildlife preserve.
So there’s jokes peppered throughout the film as Pleakley joins the escaped prisoner capture mission on Earth to ensure minimal disruption to the mosquito food chain.
In case its not obvious, I recently rewatched that movie with my kids
never watched it but the movie poster never suggested to me such a story! I thought stitch was just an ugly koala like animal
Stitch is fucking awesome, wtf is this heresy
The first film is actually very worth watching. The TV series is worth paying attention to with your kids, at least for the first episode or two
Curious how the non-humans will look in the live-action version coming out. They got Stitch right, at least.
Aren’t they a major food source for other animals?
Mosquitos are one of the most prolific pollinators, I think you’d find most biologists would tell you this.
Damn, can’t even hate on mosquitos. Where will this ever end?
BTW I recently learned the itchiness is just allergies. Some people aren’t allergic to mosquito bites and donate their blood to them without consequences. Other than the odd transmitted disease, of course.
Frankly I’m waiting for humans to start infecting mosquitos with something instead of the other way around.
really, they are that relevant in pollination too? I thought it was some nutrient feedback link from large fauna to lake environments.
Here’s some mostly true facts about them in an easy to digest way:
https://youtu.be/Hz_DslzN2IA?si=NjBOK8LQxEDV_BBB
But yes. Mosquitos are more than just blood suckers.
this is great how did yt never recommend this guy to me, I’m always watching this sort of stuff :3
All his true fact videos are amazing and pretty well researched.
He just makes them palatable, enjoy!
Nah that’s just female mosquitoes. Male mosquitoes are pollinators. Unfortunately, male mosquitoes need female mosquitoes.
That thing we do where we dump genetically modified mosquitoes into an area to make sterile mosquitoes and kill them off is awesome because the gene dies out after a few years. It’d essentially a temporary and mild extinction we can do. It’s amazing because we don’t even need to decide if it’s correct to kill off a species.
It’s also worth noting that this technique has been used primarily in urban areas with introduced species of mosquitoes. It would have different effects if done in wild ecosystems on native species.
deleted by creator
If nature doesn’t owe us safety, we don’t owe it kindness either.
What in the giving tree is this bullshit?
Bees are like carpenters, they carry a knife but you’re not worried they might stab you for no reason.
Wasps are like meth heads.
They’re like meth head gang members that also call their gang to attack you after they do. That’s what terrifies me of them.
you leave them alone and they’ll leave you alone.
I’m with you. There are 3 European Paper wasp nests under my patio that have been there since spring. I have yet to be stung.
I’ve been thinking to get a bee suit to move them in the event they do sting me. Otherwise, I’ll remove the nests this winter.
When they start getting cold they might start stinging because why not? They’re gonna die anyways.
Key word. “Might”.
If only that were true.
Libs say that about everything and it’s never true.
Huh?
Nah thats bees. Wasps are angry bastards who will attack with no provocation.
but mosquitoes though
They have actually exhaustively studied this, and they offer zero benefit, they aren’t even a good food source for any known animal.
The risks associated with mosquito eradication are extremely low.
That’s like the only bug that’s like that. The rest are crazy important to their ecosystems.
This is just plain false. Them and their eggs are an important food source for all kinds of aquatic animals and birds. Also, their larva remove contamins for water.
Even logically this doesn’t make sense. What’s more likely: every insect is extremely important except one, or humans are wrong (as we so often are) about one species of insect?
The specific mosquito species that carries malaria isn’t all that important. Other mosquitos will occupy it’s niches. That’s the mosquito people want to eradicate
Sounds like massive human bias at play. Any source?
Don’t bats eat mosquitos?
Bed bugs?
Huge food source for cockroaches, which are in turn a huge food source for birds and small mammals.
They live fucking everywhere too, including in caves and drainage systems.
So what you’re saying is they should stay far away from civilization…
who is putting their bed in a cave
Multiple people in opal mining areas of Australia and at least one dude in a ghost town near death valley and at least one hotel off the top of my head. I’m sure there are more
sources?
Ticks can eat shit and die too
There are fish which are eating the larvae and also adult mosquitos.
They don’t feed exclusively on mosquito larvae/eggs. They can easily switch to another source.
I wonder how much has been studied about the ability of the other species to proliferate enough to make up and not be eaten out of existence. The mosquitos existing may not be the limiting factor on the population size of other species.
I feel like humans are the only species whose extinction would not have a negative effect on Earth’s ecosystem (quite possibly a positive one)
Aedes mosquitos serve no known ecological purpose. They are purely parasitic, are not unique pollinators (as in, any plant they do pollinate is also pollinated by other species), and do not make up a substantial portion of the diet of any species.
I would venture to say their extinction would have a positive effect on the Ecosystem by closing that transmission vector for the diseases they carry.
So basically disease wifi, then :)
Could it possibly act as a form of reservoir for diseases that control the size of certain fauna, like…apes?
All I could find as a positive for their existence is that in the past they have kept humans from inhabiting rainforests and marshlands, and more generally control where grazing animals can feed.
Good to know we are not alone!
I don’t advocate human death obviously but with the specific comment you’re replying to:
humans = bad for the environment
mosquitos = less humans overall
so mosquitos may be good for the environment in the most assholish of ways.
how many billionaires have mosquitoes killed so far? that is the correct question
Humans are not bad for the environment. Capitalism is bad for the environment. Before imperialism and capitalism, most places on earth were populated by indigenous humans who actually protected the land they relied on to survive. There was no drive to exploit the land for all its resources, and there was an existential motivator for preserving nature as best as possible.
See OP’s comment in a different thread: https://lemmy.world/comment/11768484
arguably, if we’re talking about what’s bad for the planet, you could easily just make the argument that humans are over populated due to our advances in science and engineering allowing us to both live longer, and protect ourselves from the various threats in the environment meant to keep is at a reasonable level of population.
Presumably, mother nature never intended for species to be consciously countering her very own playbook at every fucking turn possible.
Mother nature never intended anything because mother nature is just random chance and multiplication of the best fit
Yeah sure, humans outside of current realities don’t have to be bad for the environment…but we do live in that reality where most humans are really bad for the environment and mosquitos are killing tons of us.
Again I’m firmly on team human, fuck mosquitos. Hopefully some day we can get to a point where less humans isn’t good for the environment.
Fun fact: I’ve been doing a lot of reading about indigenous peoples, and one of the constant themes is how those peoples’ traditional life ways were net positives for the environment. In California, for instance, Native American agriculture involved controlled burns every twenty years or so - keeping the soil fertile and encouraging a healthy mix of the “wild” species they cared for. They had been doing that for maybe 20,000 years. So when “environmentalists” in the early 20th century decided native lifeways were primitive and bad for the environment, and established enormous national parks where natives were no longer permitted to hunt or gather and fires were stamped out immediately, those national parks turned into tinder boxes - instead of the controlled burns the plants had evolved to take advantage of, we ended up with decades of fuel building up in the undergrowth, turning into massive uncontrolled burns that killed everything, and then invasive species rolled up and finished off the native plants.
“But untouched pristine wilderness”… No. That never existed. That’s a racist trope spread by white colonists who wanted to think of Native Americans as enemies of nature in order to justify genocide. It’s the opposite of the noble savage myth and equally racist. Fuck John Muir.
Over and over again, when you compare areas where indigenous people had lived in their traditional lifeways to areas where the people were killed or exiled but the environment was left untouched, the areas where humans were genocided have less species diversity, less fertility, and less healthy environments overall.
And if we, 21st century humanity, can use our science and technology to rediscover the old knowledge, we can take up our previous role and manage the environment around us for the benefit of all. Hell, in a lot of environments we have a duty to do so - we brought the rabbits to Australia, who’s going to get rid of them if not for us?
And all that rant is to say, humans aren’t the problem. Capitalism is the problem. Greed is the problem. Humans have lived as beneficial parts of the environment for approximately 150,000 years and we can do so again.
About the national park undergrowth…how about the option to release herds of goats to eat all that extra stuff on the ground to avoid having it burn eventually?
I’m not an expert, but I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing. If goats aren’t native to the area, we’d want to be careful not to do more harm than good (like, what if the goats like the native plants but don’t eat the invasive species), ofc.
It’s certainly better than the logging industry’s argument that they can replicate the effects of forest fires by clear cutting old growth forests.
Adam Smith stands to speak as the ship rocks with the waves.
“The creation of wealth is what matters. If an industrious businessman wants to use available resources to create goods which he can then sell in the market he should be applauded for producing something of value. No one should be allowed to stifle industry.”
“But how can you not see what harm you are causing? By promoting this naked greed you endanger us all. Every day the planks of our ship grow thinner. And for what? So that some baron can collect more of our coin?”
“Tecumseh, you are a simple minded savage. The items for sale in the market today: toothpicks, wooden spoons, hair combs, if they didn’t have more value in that form then nobody would pay for them. The planks, the mast, and the deck boards of the ship must all have less value than the products made from them. The market has decided it is so.”
“This market is destroying the very foundation of our life. Even now the water is knee high in the bilge and rising faster than we can bail it out. We lived in harmony with the ship for years. But ever since you established the market your ‘businessmen’ have been tearing the ship apart. How can we continue to live if the ship is sinking?”
A loud crack as one of the spars snaps sending splinters raining down on the deck. Several well dressed passengers scramble to collect the pieces.
“You see, Tecumseh, even on a collapsing ship there is opportunity for profit. You can’t deny the genius of the market. And if the ship starts to sink the market will substitute another, better ship, as soon as it is profitable.”
“Sigh. Only when the last mast has snapped, the last plank has broken, and our ship is underwater will you realize that coin will not keep you afloat.”
humans have invented capitalism therefore humans are bad for the ecosystem. In just a century, it surpassed whatever good we did in the past.
Adding to that, indigenous Brazilians in the Amazon Basin area effectively created and spread terra preta (dark earth), which is extremely fertile and have been doing that for several centuries, that’s also a net positive for the environment
I imagine a world without bees and wasps to look more like those in my dinosaur books.
More wasp propaganda. Nature does not owe me safety. My house siding is NOT NATURE. I WILL REVEL IN THEIR DEATH THROES.
I will not stand for this Pro wasp propaganda!
listen, i didn’t ask to be born with a functional aversion to isopods and insects in general, ok.
I didn’t want this shit, but i got it anyway.
They didn’t want you either, but here you are.
im pretty sure the insects don’t care, they keep showing up in my room and i keep killing them.
Stupid question.
Could a wasp be bred/altered to not have a sting, or at best not have a sting that can penetrate human skin? It’s akin to domestication, but we selectively breed wasps to not be such cunts.
isnt this like just like, wasp eugenics
I’m all for it.
I’m unashamedly a vespidaephobic eugenicist.
You’re thinking of bees. Also iirc wasps used to be the only way to pollinate certain figs, and considering the popularity of figs through history, someone probably attempted this.
As someone who works outside several days in an area with multiple species of wasps, including murder hornets, that would be fantastic. I’ve not been stung yet, but it’s only a matter of time and I might be allergic (I’m allergic to bees, or at least used to be, but I only had light swelling from a paper wasp. Still, I’d rather not find out).
Speaking of, if we could make all my local snakes non-venomous, I would be delighted.
Bugs are cool as long as they are spiders who exclusively eat other bugs. And pill bugs.
