- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
I switched to windscribe last month because the proton CEO starting spewing politcal BS, and I wanted port forwarding that wasn’t locked behind a shitty GUI.
As far as I was concerned setup was super easy, the VPN speeds were great, and port forwarding worked really nicely. The whole price for a fixed server and port forward, + unlimited data was a bit much (at $95/year) but for the ease of use and speeds I was getting, I was happy to stick with them.
My setup is a always-on server with a 1gbps connection, where yes, I fucking seed my shit, all of it. I have about 30TB of linux ISOs and counting, and it’s rare that my combined upload speed is less than 1MBps, ever.
Which lead me to getting banned from windscribe with no notice or warning in the middle of last week. This lead to me having to spend tracker points to avoid HnR, and i’m also unable to grab any new ISOs until I find a new VPN provider that won’t ban me for actually using the service full time.
I did shoot them an email (after talking’ with their AI bot first), and they were actually helpful enough. The offered to restore support, so long as I promised to not torrent with them again (which, I honestly did promise not to. I’m not sticking with a VPN service that can’t handle me actually using it for what it’s advertised for) and they did unban the account. Whole email chain took about three days to get resolved.
My sticking point is that they still have instructions on setting up torrents on their own website, and that they specifically allow for unlimited data (with the plan i paid for) so long as it’s just one user. I did not break those rules. After clarifying that in the support email, they still said that I was using too much data (despite the unlimited data advertisement) and that torrenting was not allowed on their service.
TL:DR: Windscribe bans you if you use a lot of data, and support says torrents aren’t allowed, despite their website advertising such. Proof in the attached images.
If y’all have any other suggestions for a VPN that allow port forwarding i’d really appreciate it.
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proton CEO starting spewing politcal BS
Context, please?
What started it I think is this twitter post praising trump and the republican party: https://xcancel.com/andyyen/status/1864436449942110660
He later doubled down on it (if I recall correctly) and the company has generally been making some highly questionable decisions since
Alright, have you actually read his tweet?
I know you just linked it, but have you actually read it, the context, and given it some thought?
Sure you can look at it as just a bit of politicking (if a poorly thought out one), but it’s really just the tip of the iceberg. Proton hasn’t done anything that clearly crosses an unacceptable line, but they’ve made a lot of other highly questionable decisions in a relatively short timespan
oh, actually now that I looked it up closer, starting about 9 months ago they did a foot in the door manuever (a survey with leading questions followed up by misrepresenting the results) and then aggressively pushed an AI service that, you guessed it, tries to read all the emails you write and receive, totally undermining the end-to-end encryption. (the claim is it works locally, but most users have their data processed on the proton servers unencrypted)
And the way they did it is straight out of the enshittification playbook where they first promise that it’s “business only” and then later try to push it to all users, and claiming it’s off by default while it’s actually on by defaulthttps://pivot-to-ai.com/2024/07/18/proton-mail-goes-ai-security-focused-userbase-goes-what-on-earth/
(this article only covers the early portion of the debacle)
this isn’t even all the problems with proton either, though all the other things are pretty minor by comparison (eg. quitting mastodon “because it’s too expensive to maintain” (?))
aggressively pushed an AI service that, you guessed it, tries to read all the emails you write (…) (this article only covers the early portion of the debacle)
Did you actually read it, though?
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They claim to respect privacy and - to date - have done nothing to suggest that they don’t.
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It’s running on European-run Mistral.ai, which is subject to all the standard GDPR rules.
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IT’S OPTIONAL (there goes the “aggressive push” bit)
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NOTHING EXCEPT FOR THE PROMPT IS SENT TO MISTRAL (there goes the “reads all emails” bit)
I get it. People see “AI” and immediately panic. But it doesn’t seem like the panic HERE makes any sense at all.
quitting mastodon “because it’s too expensive to maintain”
I’d say having to either pay a guy to maintain the account or pay for software that allows cross-posting to both Twitter and Mastodon (with both having different limitations) gets expensive if you realise that they were getting minuscule engagement on Mastodon. It’s a shit move, but I get where they’re coming from. Same reason why Garuda Linux has a subreddit, but not a Lemmy Community.
but they’ve made a lot of other highly questionable decisions in a relatively short timespan
Nothing you’ve shown me so far is anywhere near the point where I’d be suspicious of them.
Don’t get me wrong: I’m not saying they’re the end-all-be-all of privacy oriented services. There’s a bunch of stuff they do wrong (especially with how they farm engagement on their TT account), but as far as privacy and security themselves? I’ve yet to see an issue.
- They claim to respect privacy and - to date - have done nothing to suggest that they don’t.
If you ignore all the fast and loose they play with privacy, sure, there is “nothing to suggest” they don’t respect it.
IT’S OPTIONAL (there goes the “aggressive push” bit)
It’s not an aggressive push if you ignore the part where they repeatedly use the foot in the door technique where they first promise they won’t do something, and then later do it anyways.
They claim it is optional but they just shove a pop-up in your face about AI, while misleading you about how it works. This is about 1 step away from how most companies “allow” you to “preserve your privacy” by carefully clicking “no” to a long list of popups suggesting you give them cookies and share your emails etc.
This may be easy to dismiss as “problem between keyboard and chair” but when it predictably leads to many users thinking it’s off but being surprised when they find it turned on without them realizing it it’s not much consolation
NOTHING EXCEPT FOR THE PROMPT IS SENT TO MISTRAL (there goes the “reads all emails” bit)
How do you figure that works? The server somehow corrects your spelling mistakes without reading the email containing the spelling mistake? Again, End-to-end encryption is a core advertised feature of protonmail, and this completely sidesteps it while actively misleading users into thinking it doesn’t
If you ignore all the fast and loose they play with privacy, sure
I’m not ignoring it, I just never heard about it. Got some articles/examples?
It’s not an aggressive push if you ignore the part where they repeatedly use the foot in the door technique where they first promise they won’t do something, and then later do it anyways.
Can’t comment because I haven’t seen the original announcement. Are you sure it wasn’t to the tune of “it will be available for Business” and then people extrapolated that to mean “it will never, ever, ever-ever even remotely touch the ‘civilian’ accounts”?
They claim it is optional but they just shove a pop-up in your face about AI
Ah, yes, recommending new features, the Hitler of XXI c’s IT.
Come on now…
while misleading you about how it works
Please elaborate.
it predictably leads to many users thinking it’s off but being surprised when they find it turned on without them realizing it it’s not much consolation
I mean… Yeah, they added the button instead of having the user toggle a switch for the button to appear. But, as I’m reading it, it’s not the feature that is “on” or “off” in the sense that you seem to see it. It’s not “‘on’, therefore it’s doing something behind the scenes”. It’s “on” as in: “the button is visible, and if you click it, you can start interacting with it, but it does nothing unless you tell it to do something”. I may be wrong, of course, but I wouldn’t discount the entire company on the basis of a Reddit comment.
How do you figure that works? The server somehow corrects your spelling mistakes without reading the email containing the spelling mistake?
If you ask Scribe to correct spelling mistakes, then the prompt contains the email you asked it to correct, that seems fairly obvious. It doesn’t, however, “read your mailbox”, because it can’t.
They claim to respect privacy and - to date - have done nothing to suggest that they don’t.
Didn’t they deliver environmental activists to Spain’s authorities?
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Umm… Yes? What’s that got to do with anything?
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context was provided in a relatively neutral way
Was it, though?
What started it I think is this twitter post praising trump
That’s a pretty non-neutral way to present things, considering nothing like that happened in said tweet.
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Goddamnit, I just made an email with them, trying to get out of google’s monopoly. Does anyone know an email service that doesn’t suck?
Self hosting
That is in the back of my mind. God help me I may just do it.
It is actually quite a lot of work if you’re not already familiar with the ideas, I’d only suggest it if you personally want to develop the skills.
The most popular alternative seems to be tutanota, though there should be a lot of alternatives though they may be very niche
(it seems tuta has some technical limitations if you want to do automated emailing, and the UI is a bit clunky, but it’s not a privacy or security problem)
The whole “scandal” is bullshit.
Look at the linked tweet, mate. Trump appointed Gil Slater as Assistant Attorney General or the Antitrust Division.
Slater was known for being anti-Big Tech.
Yen is famously anti-Big Tech.
He calls the appointment a good choice.
That’s it. He doesn’t say “Trump is great”, he doesn’t say ANYTHING about Trump himself, he just comments that “appointing this person (who we know is anti-Big Tech) to a high position in the Antitrust Division is a good choice”.
But since we live in the world where saying “Trump, maybe, potentially, accidentally did something good” means you’re in a cult because you didn’t call to hang him for everything he does, we are where we are.
He literally said that they are now the party of the little guys. That’s what “the tables have turned” means. That says a lot about how he feels about Trump, and a lot about how much you can trust his judgement on anything.
Yeah, if you cut up his Tweet into single sentences and then read each one completely outside of any context, then you could argue that Andy Yen got brainwashed into being MAGA.
But that’s not how language works.
HERE’S the full Tweet. For your convenience, I’ll quote it in full:
Great pick by @realDonaldTrump. 10 years ago, Republicans were the party of big business and Dems stood for the little guys, but today the tables have completely turned. People forget that the current antitrust actions against Big Tech were started under the first Trump admin.
Nothing he wrote here are lies. The antitrust actions against Big Tech were started by Trump’s administration. The whole thing about banning Tik-Tok was their idea.
Appointing someone who’s known to be “anti-Big Tech” to the second highest position in the Antitrust Division at the DOJ objectively sounds great and is a good move.
So, with the Dems fighting to stop Trump admin’s moves against Big Tech, the tables were turned at the point in time the Tweet was written - in 2024, before the inauguration and the swearing-in of Trump!
I’m assuming that if you asked Yen today what he thinks about Trump and his administration, he’d have a vastly different opinion. But calling him a “Trump supporter” based off of that tweet is just… either ignorance, or some silly form of fundamentalism.
If anyone thought Trump’s party was the party of “the little guys” at any point in time now or before the inauguration, they shouldn’t be trusted with a pair of blunt scissors, much less a key piece of IT infrastructure.
And if you’re gullible enough to think that’s a reasonable defence, I’d put you in that category too. I’m not really interested in anything else you have to say, that was just a disqualifyingly vapid argument you just made.
Bye.
I just find it sad that we came to a point where any public discourse is this tribal.
There are things the Trump admin did objectively right (often for all the wrong reasons), but people like you will not only not allow themselves to acknowledge that, you’ll put people like me, who do, to the “Trump supporter or gullible fool” basket without giving it a second thought.
We blame the right-wing for creating a massive divide in society, and then this happens? The left-wing is equally as responsible for this divide, it seems. At least for maintaining, if not deepening, it.
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I am not American, but this doesn’t sound particularly convincing.
Irrespective of where you stand on the political spectrum, you can reasonably state that Trump and his regime are extremely corrupt and are unlikely to have any good faith interest in targeting American technology oligarchs via anti-trust.
Yen almost certainly knows this. So there had to be something else going on. Doesn’t necessarily have to be support for Trump, could be an attempt to gain favour.
At any rate, Yen clearly disrespect his customers by engaging in faux-anti-trust polemics.
you can reasonably state that Trump and his regime are extremely corrupt and are unlikely to have any good faith interest in targeting American technology oligarchs via anti-trust
NOW you can.
In 2024, you couldn’t, because his previous admin, as bullshit-filled, corrupt and dishonest as it was, DID do some good things (mostly in a bad way - if it was all good, it was usually by accident). The anti-trust stuff was some of those good things.
And don’t get me wrong - I know full well that Trump never intended any of that stuff to benefit the “Average Joe”. I’m willing to bet my life’s savings that he and his admin did it to show “who’s the boss” to all the “tech bros” (who were famously anti-Trump at the time). I guess you could say it worked, considering how they all sided with him now.
But, again, we NOW know what the true intentions were. In 2024, looking at the first term, you COULD honestly say that Trump did some good in a fight against Big Tech.
And, again, all Yen said was that appointing someone known for being anti-Big Tech into such a high position in the DOJ was a good move, and stated the obvious (at the time) fact, that Dems were very much siding with Big Tech, which did not benefit the average citizen.
Yen clearly disrespect his customers by engaging in faux-anti-trust polemics
From a purely tribal (“us vs them”, “Republicans vs Democrats”) perspective (“anything they do is wrong and evil, anything we do is correct and good”) - yes, you’re right. From a more saner perspective of just looking at facts of life (anti-trust work, the appointment to the DOJ, Dems’ stance on Big Tech), I don’t see any disrespect at all.
The disrespect I am referring to has nothing to do with US politics or tribalism.
It’s disrespectful because he think his customers are stupid enough to buy his ruse about “genuinely” thinking that a Trump admin would be concerned about anti-trust.
In a global context, skepticism of oligarch groups is not “minority position”. In many countries, if you start spouting random polemics about how “Oligarch X actually cares or might do some good”, people will think you hit your head or you’re trying to launch a new career as a standup comedian with a focus on politics.
You referenced the current US admin assigning someone who is allegedly anti-trust? So what? What does this have to with anything? This is not some sort of silver bullet and it’s a bit sophomoric to claim this is of any significant importance.
But, again, we NOW know what the true intentions were. In 2024, looking at the first term, you COULD honestly say that Trump did some good in a fight against Big Tech.
In 2024, you couldn’t, because his previous admin, as bullshit-filled, corrupt and dishonest as it was, DID do some good things (mostly in a bad way - if it was all good, it was usually by accident). The anti-trust stuff was some of those good things.
This is not at all convincing. There are multiple examples of two-stage oligarch/authoritarian takeovers in flawed democracies (I can come several of the top of my head). This is not unique to the US. An oligarch regime is not going to suddenly have a massive change in heart.
What exactly were the good things? Which major company was broken up? Which executives went to jail?
Try and look at what I am saying outside the lens of internal US politics. As I said earlier, I am not even necessarily saying that the Proton CEO is a Trump supporter, that doesn’t make the situation any better.
It’s disrespectful because he think his customers are stupid enough to buy his ruse about “genuinely” thinking that a Trump admin would be concerned about anti-trust.
But… He never said that?
He said that “democrats used to stand for the little guy, but tables have turned”. Again, in context he’s 100% correct - Dems went to bed with a lot of big business while Reps started a lot of anti-trust anti-BigTech moves (which, due to tribalism, Dems criticised).
He doesn’t say anything else - nothing about him “thinking the Trump admin is concerned about X”, he just states a simple fact.
And we live in a time when stating a fact makes you “the enemy of the people” because, apparently, “my feeling are more important than facts” rings true on both sides of the political divide… And that’s shameful.
You referenced the current US admin assigning someone who is allegedly anti-trust? So what? What does this have to with anything?
Well… only just the fact that this is precisely what he was commenting on?
What do you mean “what dos that have to do with anything”?? It’s got literally the entirety of it.
What exactly were the good things?
DOJ Antitrust Lawsuit Against Google (2020)- Focused on Google’s deals with Apple and others to maintain default search engine status, thus harming competitors.
FTC Antitrust Lawsuit Against Facebook (December 2020)- To potentially break up Facebook by forcing it to divest those companies.
DOJ Antitrust Review of Big Tech (2019)- Laid groundwork for later actions, like the 2020 Google lawsuit.
FTC Tech Task Force (2019)- Re-examined acquisitions like Facebook’s of Instagram and WhatsApp.
Trump’s Executive Order on Section 230 (May 2020) to weaken legal protections that shield social media platforms from liability over user content and moderation decisions. - didn’t get much done as actual change would require Congressional action. But it intensified scrutiny of Big Tech.
And indirectly: Trump supported conservative-led Congressional hearings and investigations into Big Tech’s political power and influence or pushed the idea that companies like Amazon were harming small businesses and exploiting USPS.
Obviously, most of these were fuelled by his pettiness (he always complained about social media having anti-conservative bias and wanted to hurt them in retaliation), but you cannot look at these and go “all of this is shite” and not be considered either insane or a fundamentalist.
Which major company was broken up? Which executives went to jail?
Don’t be childish. We’re not talking about completely redefining the tech landscape, we’re talking about reining a couple of “too big” companies in.
Try and look at what I am saying outside the lens of internal US politics. As I said earlier, I am not even necessarily saying that the Proton CEO is a Trump supporter, that doesn’t make the situation any better.
What you seem to be saying is: “he didn’t criticise Trump, therefore he went against his client-base’s belief system, and that’s a bad thing”.
Am I getting this right? Maybe elaborate on what’s your exact stance on Yen if I’m getting something confused?
Wasn’t sure if this was the right place, but I figured someone should know about this. For what it’s worth, I would actually recommend windscribe if you don’t plan on doing torrents all the time, or you have sub 1gbps internet. Just sucks that I hit their “unlimited” internet limits on my home connection.
They have a page on their site about chargebacks. They’re confidant they’ll win them, but they still ban because it costs them money. I’ve done one anyways; as far as my reading of their tos goes, I was in the right. Might as well make this experience cost both of us money, instead of just them.
Their guide for using torrents with their service; https://windscribe.com/knowledge-base/articles/using-windscribe-with-torrent-clients/
Their FAQ on bandwidth and chargebacks: https://windscribe.com/knowledge-base/articles/why-did-my-account-get-disabled/
They have a page on their site about chargebacks. They’re confidant they’ll win them
The portion about chargebacks refers to being outside the refund period, nothing to do with p2p or bandwidth caps.
The fact that they have anti-chargeback wording on their public website speaks volumes. I get they have anti-union posters in their breakroom too. Fuck this company!
Lmao I like the tl;drs on TOS page. Some of them are a little reductive, but it’s still better than making it a giant illegible block
Thanks for the warning!
I’m not trying to convince you either way, but can you point to the ‘political BS’ Proton guy said that made you flip? I use Proton and also veer hard left wherever politics are concerned, and I personally think the whole thing is way overblown. I may have missed something though, happy to hear otherwise, because in my understanding all he did was soft-endorse someone who identifies as republican at the moment
Here’s the exact post that got the Proton CEO in trouble:
Maybe Gail Slater really is a great pick for Assistant Attorney General for the Antitrust Division. Frankly, I have no idea. But I won’t do business with any company that carries any water whatsoever for Trump.
He also went on Reddit and defended his statements by saying he wasn’t familiar with American politics and he’s sorry if he triggered people. So he’s claiming to be unaware of thing because he doesn’t engage in American politics, and at the exact same time, he’s using right-wing talking points like misusing the term “triggered” to mean “upset left-leaning people”. Something he could only have picked up if he’s lurking in right-wing spaces.
he’s using right-wing talking points like misusing the term “triggered” to mean “upset left-leaning people”.
At this point you can pretty much pick up that term from anywhere. We might think it’s dumb, we might use it sarcastically, but it’s entered our lexicon.
While that’s true, “I’m sorry that you got upset at what I did” is in no way actually an apology or an admission that they might have been wrong, so…
My comment is in no way related to the CEO dude
He called republicans “Republicans” and the Democrats “dems” in the comment.
Yeah I’m with you. I’m more pissed with Proton for disengaging via Mastodon than at the stupid CEO - but none if it is a good reason enough to opt for lesser services. Proton’s doing good stuff.
The strong other half of my reasoning was port forwarding being locked to GUI. I use a lot of scripts to keep my server restart process simple.
Wait, port forwarding on Proton is locked behind a GUI? That doesn’t seem right - I use proton with port forwarding for my torrent setup on my NAS and it connects to VPN just using environment variables from a docker compose file. No Proton software installed at all.
Also fully possible I’ve misread something; apologies if so.
I don’t know about ‘locked’ so much as ‘hard to get running with headless linux’. I looked into it two or three times and was stymied by the various ways it went wrong.
In comparison, windscribe had me choose a port on their website, and then I used that in my docker run command and it just worked.
That’s understandable. I do recall when setting up my stuff that Proton’s documentation left a lot to be desired. Thankfully I found the Dr Frankenstein guides that walked me through it. I don’t do much script writing of my own though, so that may not be helpful for everyone.
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I was one of the people who based my opinion of Proton on that tweet and swore off them until someone else shared that link with me. It’s excellent, thorough, and makes a convincing case that Yang is actually left-leaning. I can only assume that you’re getting downvotes from people who haven’t read it.
The downvotes are for the unnecessary holier-than-thou rant at the end attacking everyone using this very site.
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I’ve seen that Medium article shared here before and find it very unconvincing. While I agree that framing the Proton CEO as an evil Nazi lapdog is a bit much, here’s a comment I saw on Lemmy another time this was discussed that explains why the article is flawed better than I could.
It sounds like they banned you for excessive usage. They allow at least 1tb a month because ive used that amount regularly with them.
It is a bit misleading for them to be calling it “unlimited” tho
I don’t think this is misleading. Misleading is when you use technically true facts to draw someone towards an incorrect conclusion. Calling a plan unlimited then having a limit is more like fraudulent if you ask me.
Buried deep in the terms of service where nobody will ever read will be a “reasonable use” clause. That’s the justification for why it wouldn’t count as a fraud.
I do agree however that as a consumer we are constantly being defrauded by corporations free to do whatever they wish without repercussions.
Buried deep in the terms of service where nobody will ever read will be a “reasonable use” clause
Their ToS is pretty succinct and clear. There’s no “reasonable use” or any similar wording, and also no wording in regards to p2p or data caps.
Beware of the leopard
I agree, but the 40gb limit on my phones “unlimited” plan seem to disagree with reality, as does the $30 per 500gb comcast would charge me if i use over 1.2tb…
Not saying it isnt false advertising, but its how a lot of internet service providers choose to advertise things these days.
It is a bit misleading
If it’s limited, it isn’t unlimited. That looks like a lie to me, and not “a bit misleading”.
Which is why they said the issue was torrenting and not using too much data. It’s an unlimited plan and they would never think to put a limit on data usage. They just object to torrenting and it’s pure coincidence that they only object to that when someone is using a lot of data.
It’s not “a bit misleading” for them to call it unlimited and then ban people for using too much data, it’s extremely misleading, almost bordering on scammy. If I were OP I would’ve done a chargeback and switched VPNs instead of begging them for an unban. They deserve it for lying and trying to deceive customers. Vote with your wallet (and chargebacks) if you want companies to stop doing shitty shady like this.
it’s extremely misleading, almost bordering on scammy
It’s neither of those things either. “Misleading” indicates their representations were technically true, but it sounds like this is just a straight up lie.
That’s true, they outright lied, it’s not one of those technically true situations they outright lied and said unlimited and ban people for going over an arbitrary data limit, not even temporarily cutting off connection, outright suspending their accounts.
The unban was just to check if the refund process would go through. Since it didn’t then I did a chargeback.
That makes sense, best to try and give them a chance before going the ugly route. I do try and point this out since there are a lot of people who believe you should never EVER do a chargeback since companies, especially the sleazy ones claim it’s not allowed or broadly illegal (likely because if people were more inclined to do it, they’d be in big trouble).
“a bit”. this post just proves they are lying all around
Didn’t the, do the same with the lifetime VPN for 10€/year and later stated the lifetime is meant to be Putin’s lifetime, i.e. when he dies the offer expires? Same with the 40gb/month for free which they randomly changed…
I’d recommend AirVPN. Here’s why I’d recommend them, in their own words:
No traffic limit. No time limit.
No maximum speed limit, it depends only on the server load
Every protocol is welcome, including p2p. Forwarded ports and DDNS to optimize your software.
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As a rule, the more outdated a service’s website is, the better the service is.
It’s funny that you mentioned this, because the crappy website is one of the things that sold me on it. It reminds me of the old internet.
It’s also surprisingly affordable, I got a 3 year subscription for something like $60. I was during a sale.
Came to give AirVPN a shoutout too. Been with them since 7 years. Using both their client and native wireguard kernel module. Very happy.
AirVPN seems really good, I liked Mullvad but unfortunately they dropped port forwarding which really ruined them as a VPN service for Torrenting.
Same here. Switched from Mullvad to AirVPN once they dropped port forwarding. I have had several issues with the Eddie client, but wound up dropping it in favor of gluetun and Wiresock with Wireguard configs and have had zero issues.
I switched to AirVPN about 6 months ago and I’ve been really happy with the service. Was previously using NordVPN, which was fine, but I was looking for a VPN provider that offered port forwarding and AirVPN does that. I don’t have hard stats on this, but I do feel that having access to port forwarding has improved my overall torrent speeds since switching.
The CEO of Windscribe is an Elon stan so you didn’t switch to a more left-leaning provider than Proton.
I suspect most CEOs are, The vast majority just have enough common sense not to ruin their relations with the 99 percenters.
Holy shit, you’re not lying. The literal first Post on his Twitter
You’re going to be very hard pressed in finding a VPN that supports torrenting. People abuse it. That’s why mullvad pulled port forwarding support.
Additionally people misinterpret what they can do even if their VPN does support torrenting. It’s still illegal to use their service to torrent anything other than legal torrents…
There are no services available to you that allow you indiscriminately to torrent illegal content. They simply don’t exist. And even if you get lucky enough to find one they won’t exist for long. lol
Every part of your comment is wrong or false. Air, O, Proton. There’s 3 that are “mainstream”.
There’s multitudes of smaller providers that allow it.
Mullvad removed it because of CP and extremist content being hosted behind mullvad. It had nothing to do with torrenting as they had no problem with it for the many years.
Many countries don’t even acknowledge DMCA. Some have their own that have higher criteria for enforcement like the NL, others just don’t care. Hosted many things out of Vietnam, Kosovo, Hungary, etc.
It’s evident to me that you’re either stupid, or lack the ability to read. You make up your mind on which is which.
It’s not possible for a company, no matter where they are in the world to permit users to do things which are illegal. Period. Proton cannot allow their users to use their VPN to use the torrent network to download IP. As with any company anywhere in the world. To live in some state of reality to be unable to acknowledge this is the most insane shit I’ve ever seen in my life. You literally are living outside of reality here… The sheer level of stupidity here is fucking insane to me, so I’ll try one last time to put it into perspective for you;
I’ve said “Murder is illegal, no matter where you are. You can’t just kill people” and you’ve said quite unironically “GLOCK allows their customers to kill people, they’ve made murder legal.”
Do you genuinely not see how fucking idiotic and stupid you sound?
Many countries don’t even acknowledge DMCA.
This also has nothing to do with DMCA–which is a US law and cannot be enforced in other parts of the world. As I’ve said from the very beginning, theft of IP (torrent or otherwise) is individually illegal in all but less than 5 countries on this planet… It doesn’t matter how you do it, or where you do it. It’s always going to be illegal because all of the countries from which these VPN providers originate, it’s illegal in those countries.
I’ve done my very best to explain this very simple concept to you–that you can’t break the law just because you’re behind a VPN and they don’t actively pursue you for every little infraction–but if you still don’t understand it after all this, then do us both a favor and just take a vow of silence for the rest of your pitiable life.
I mean Jesus Christ.
Mullvad didn’t pull port forwarding because of people abusing torrenting. They pulled it because interpol resorted to telling everyone to block their servers after mullvad wouldn’t/couldn’t assist in its investigation into csam sharing across forwarded ports using stuff as simple as the windows file and printer sharing system.
What caused them to pull port forwarding was the threat of being dropped from the routing table over stonewalling a police investigation into csam, not torrenting.
This is well documented and reflects the experience of many mullvad users including myself over the time period that it occurred. Saying that the decision had anything to do with torrenting is just false.
People abuse it
My Man, unless you buy all the bullshit that YouTubers claim VPNs do, the only reason to get one is to torrent
There are no services available to you that allow you indiscriminately to torrent illegal content. They simply don’t exist.
Yes, most VPNs will allow you to do that just fine. And they exist for years.
My Man, unless you buy all the bullshit that YouTubers claim VPNs do, the only reason to get one is to torrent
This is one of the top 10 dumbest statements I’ve ever seen on the internet and shows a total and complete lack of understanding what a VPN is, and what it does.
Yes, most VPNs will allow you to do that just fine.
There are currently 2-3 countries where torrenting IP isn’t illegal. Unless you have a VPN in one of these countries, there are no conditions where its “allowed,” because it’s entirely illegal. Even if it’s not expressly outlined in a services TOS it’s still illegal, and therefore not allowed. Even if they expressly permit it, it’s still illegal, and therefore not allowed.
I absolutely fucking beg you to use the brain you were given and stop embarrassing your parents who put time and energy into raising you.
This is one of the top 10 dumbest statements I’ve ever seen on the internet and shows a total and complete lack of understanding what a VPN is, and what it does.
Well then explain me why I would need a VPN in the year 2025 with encrypted connections and HSTS being the norm
There are currently 2-3 countries where torrenting IP isn’t illegal. Unless you have a VPN in one of these countries, there are no conditions where its “allowed,” because it’s entirely illegal. Even if it’s not expressly outlined in a services TOS it’s still illegal, and therefore not allowed. Even if they expressly permit it, it’s still illegal, and therefore not allowed.
It’s illegal, but in practice not enforceable if you hide between a VPN in another jurisdiction.
So in practice you can do it and nobody gives a shit.Well then explain me why I would need a VPN in the year 2025 with encrypted connections and HSTS being the norm
To connect to a network, which is private and virtual. As the name suggests, this is the reason for which VPNs were invented and are still used today. Using VPNs for “privacy” is how they’re popularized for anyone who doesn’t actually know what they are and how they’re used. Which clearly includes yourself. To believe that there’s no legitimate use for VPNs outside of their layman’s usage is so incredibly fucking insane.
If you’re going to speak about something, do yourself a favor in the future and at least do a cursory Google search to find out what it is that you’re speaking about first so you don’t look like a total idiot. For fucks sake.
So you’re moving Goalposts again?
Nobody was talking about a VPN for accessing your private home or company network. Even you were talking about a commercial VPN Providers…You’re really insufferable
Using a VPN for accessing your private, home or company network is the literal reason for which it was created and designed.
It’s in the fucking name, virtual private network. I don’t have to mention it like it’s somehow tangential or some kind of secondary and unused function of the technology. It is it’s literal primary focus.
I’m having a conversation with a literal child trying to explain to them the purpose of a network software that is self-evident in the fucking name of the software itself, and you have the balls to say that I’m insufferable? This community is fucking insufferable–filled to the brim with 12-year-olds that don’t know their ass from their elbow and assert with absolutisms without reading or understanding anything at all. It quite literally brings bile to the recesses of my mouth.
There are currently 2-3 countries where torrenting IP isn’t illegal.
Why are you moving goalposts? You stated originally:
You’re going to be very hard pressed in finding a VPN that supports torrenting.
MANY support it. Supporting something in of itself doesn’t speak to it’s legality.
I know they’re not popular anymore, but PIA supports it, was taken to court over it, provided nothing (no log service, so couldn’t provide anything) and walked away clean. You don’t get that if what they were doing was illegal. And if they thought the risk actually mattered, they would have changed their policy to keep their company alive. But they didn’t. So they support it (about as much as anyone would care to support it) and have been tested by courts.
The sad part is… if you had read the OP, you could have done 3 seconds of research and found https://windscribe.com/knowledge-base/articles/using-windscribe-with-torrent-clients/… Which is literally the VPN service being discussed EXPLICITLY talking about configuring torrent clients. Wouldn’t creating pages to support users who are looking for configuration for this “illegal” thing be direct evidence that you’re full of shit?
I absolutely fucking beg you to stop embarrassing the dictionary by learning and using words correctly, and to stick to the topic that you literally brought up.
Why are you moving goalposts?
There are no goalposts. This isn’t my opinion. It’s an incontestable fact that stealing IP is illegal in 98% of every country on this planet. You can choose to live denial in some virtual fantasy where you pretend that this isn’t true, but you can’t change facts. Period.
MANY support it.
There is no VPN on this planet which “supports” theft of IP. There are providers which don’t actively seek to ban users for doing so. Which is absolutely not the same and you pretending that it is, is disgusting behavior. Truly infantile.
There are no goalposts.
Yes you did. You switched from “supporting” to “illegal”. Which are two separate and distinct conception. Murder is illegal… How many people around these parts support Luigi? See… two completely separate topics.
This isn’t my opinion. It’s an incontestable fact that stealing IP is illegal in 98% of every country on this planet.
Cool. Then next time don’t talk about “support” when you meant “legality”. And further please cite the 98% claim, as I will definitely contest it. And be careful to fall into the trap for countries that DO care about IP laws, but only within their country (China).
There is no VPN on this planet which “supports” theft of IP.
So you think they setup these torrent help pages and don’t expect people to use torrents in an illegal manner? Do you think that the Windscribe page wouldn’t come up in a lawsuit if they were dragged into one to put some onus on the provider themselves for supporting their users in the process of torrenting illegal content?
You think these companies are just stupid? You think they don’t recognize that capturing this group of customers is valuable to them?
Which is absolutely not the same and you pretending that it is, is disgusting behavior.
I never weighed in on my thoughts on the matter at all. You have no idea if I support torrenting illegal content or not.
Truly infantile.
Says the person who’s failing to comprehend basic language and easy premises while claiming actual things that nobody else claimed.
Now that I have a bit more time later in the day…
https://privacysavvy.com/security/torrents/safest-countries-to-download-torrents-and-worsts/
Switzerland Switzerland tops the list of the most torrent-friendly countries. Swiss law gives every citizen the right to download music, movies, books, and all types of copyrighted content as long as it’s for personal use.
Spain Spain is almost as safe a country as Switzerland for torrenting and filesharing users. The legal precedent was set in 2006 when a judge ruled that downloading, keeping, and using copyrighted files was fine as long as no profiting was involved.
Poland The legal status of file sharing is nowhere near as explicit in Poland as in the previous two countries. Instead, it’s more of a nobody’s land. No written law or official legal precedent refers to “personal use” as an acceptable instance of possession and use. However, there seems to be legal consent in legal opinions that point to the private use of copyrighted material as legal and acceptable.
And this is just the EU… You think ANY African or South American government gives a flying fuck? (Really the best you’ll find is that it’s illegal on paper but there’s virtually/effectively 0 enforcement).
You think most of Asia gives a flying fuck?
China as mentioned before only cares if you’re stealing from within China. Russia is the same in that they don’t care about outside companies but only if you hurt another Russia/friendly company.
To be frank, it’s only a handful of countries that actually care about international IP laws. You’re so far out in left field with your claims that it’s actually sad. It’s almost like you live in one particular country and assume the rest of the world is the exact same. When in reality the rest of the world really doesn’t care, like nearly at all.
Mullvad didn’t remove port forwarding because people were torrenting too much they removed it because people were using it for real criminal activity like hacking and CP and they were getting heat for it.
I have no idea why you’re mentioning legal versus illegal torrenting as laws differ everywhere, they’re not banning OP for illegal activity, they’re not scanning all your files to determine whether it’s legal IP or not, and they’re banning him for using too much bandwidth.
Mullvad didn’t remove port forwarding because people were torrenting too much they removed it because people were using it for real criminal activity
Regardless of your personal feelings on the matter, pirating IP is illegal. The statement you just made is unabashedly stupid beyond all measure. Everything you listed are crimes.
I have no idea why you’re mentioning legal versus illegal torrenting as laws differ everywhere
There are less than 5 countries on the planet where pirating IP isn’t illegal. This isn’t a “well, it’s illegal in Arizona, but not in Idaho!” type of deal. It’s essentially illegal in every sovereign country on the planet save for a few.
This community is so incredibly naive and stupid sometimes. I swear to God.
Is there a “Confidently Incorrect” community here? Regardless, it always seems to be the most condescending people that make the most generalized and factually incorrect statements, then sneer at the person that was actually right… 🙄
The statement you just made is unabashedly stupid beyond all measure
It’s hilarious you keep making statements like this as every point you make has been shown to either be uninformed or completely false. I sense strong projection here…
Everything you listed are crimes.
Torrenting isn’t a crime and downloading others’ IP is also not a crime. Sharing others’ IP can be a crime in some jurisdictions. There is also a gap as wide as the Grand Canyon between sharing a Taylor Swift album and distributing child porn or hacking into government systems which is why I put a qualifier on my statement. I’m surprised a stable genius such as yourself couldn’t understand the difference. You’re basically claiming that speeding and murder are equivalent crimes here.
It’s essentially illegal in every sovereign country on the planet save for a few.
What exactly are you defining as illegal here and what’s the level of enforcement in all these locations? Weed is illegal everywhere in the US, and yet I have been able to drive down to a store and buy it for the past 10 years without issue. Once again you don’t seem to grasp what you’re discussing, and I notice that you conveniently left off the rest of that statement since you presumably can’t form a coherent rebuttal like we keep seeing in all of your other comments here. For someone who puts their intelligence in such high regard, your replies seem to be anything but.
Sweetheart, if you’re going to participate in online communication you need to keep up. And you need to read the entire statement and not just cherry pick like what you’re doing now. Not once did I ever say torrenting is illegal. I said very specifically an exactly that torrenting IP is illegal.
That’s not a contestable statement. It’s not an opinion. It’s a literal fact. There’s no politics here, where I say a statement that you disagree with and we agree to disagree. There’s no version of this where what I’ve said is wrong and you’re somehow correct. It’s a wholly truthful statement from start to finish… And you’re pretending like it’s not by cherry picking the very first part of it and convincing yourself that I’m saying that torrenting by itself is illegal and I think you know at least on some basic level of intelligence that that is not at all what I have said, and it’s concerning to me that maybe you don’t even understand that you’re doing it. It’s truly sad and pathetic thing to see…
Look in to I2P
Thanks for the note OP. Which VPN providers are you looking at for public torrents?
Odd. I’ve been torrenting with them for years at this rate. Even have my media server up 24/7 with qBittorrent running. I guess I’ll have to find an alternative in case this winds up happening to me.
Same I’ve been using them for years without issue. This guy must have been using MASSIVE amounts of data.
About 8TiB upload and 2TiB download over the course of this whole mess. I don’t have exact numbers because WRT stopped counting for some reason, but I can infer based on January numbers.
Windscribe encrypts your browsing activity, blocks ads, and unblocks entertainment content
so that was a lie
I think that refers to geoblocked content.
Agreed, but that’s also weird. Suddenly they’re the arbiter of what rules are okay to break and what aren’t? Sounds like they’re just trying to keep costs/traffic down.
Meh, switch to usenet. Download as much as you want, at max bandwidth 100% of the time, with 0 need for a vpn and no obligation to re-seed content for months on end.
Do you have a guide or something to get started? I’ve considered doing this a couple of times, but haven’t had the bandwidth to dig in and figure it out.
Good on you! Usenet has been around for DECADES.
I don’t have a guide that’s modern. I’m just remembering how I used to connect in the 90s-2000s.
I don’t have a guide, but I knew nothing about it and it took me like 15-30 minutes total of googling and researching to set it all up.
In short, you need three things: (here’s what I’ve been using)
An indexer: NZBgeek Just like a torrent indexer, but for .nzb files instead of .torrents
A provider: Frugal Usenet Where you’re downloading data from.
And a client: SabNZBD
When it comes to which provider to choose; pretty much all of them provide similar retention and unlimited data cap, so you really just need to look for something nearby. Often people will recommend having 2 providers one covered by DMCA and one covered by NTD to make content more available; but I’ve not really noticed a need.
Why would having a provider covered by the DMCA be a good thing (not offhand aware of NTD but I am guessing it is similar to the DMCA)? I have also been interested in trying Usenet, so thanks for sharing three examples of what to look for!
NTD is the European version of DMCA essentially.
It’s not a good thing; but usenet providers like any other internet service are generally subject to one or the other depending on their location, so it’s good to know which one covers the provider you use.
With providers spread across the globe, mirroring each others data, and subject to different copyright notice/takedown laws; the whole system is quite robust against removals. While you can send notices to individual providers, It’s extremely difficult to coordinate a global takedown effort and truly remove content from usenet as a whole.
That’s why multiple provider’s in different regions can be beneficial. Some people will buy ‘block’ accounts (a fixed amount of data to be used as needed, vs a monthly cap) for a provider in a separate region to fallback on when the data has been taken down from their local provider.
What does retention mean in this context? File retention? Is there any way to integrate with Kodi or other media server like debrid services?
Them calling it “unlimited” when there’s a limit is wrong, but so is using all of the available upload bandwidth 100% of the time on a cheap home VPN service when you consider the current market prices for data transfer. Mine’s limited to 200Kbps. Seems fair for $7/month or whatever it is.
Them calling it “unlimited” when there’s a limit is wrong, but so is using all of the available upload bandwidth 100% of the time on a cheap home VPN service when you consider the current market prices for data transfer. Mine’s limited to 2Mbps. Seems fair for $7/month or whatever it is.
they shouldn’t make it unlimited them, skill issue on their part.
If you’re selling me 1Gb networking speeds, with no bandwidth limit, it’s not my fault for using all of it lol. I’m just using what i pay for.
That’s technically within your legal rights I guess, just like (depending what the fine print says) it’s within their rights to throttle all your traffic one way or another to a low speed including the stuff you actually need to go faster. The places that always have low speeds for everyone are like that because they’re designed to cater to people who don’t give a shit about what their fair share might be and just want to max out their connection. Those services are fine for torrenting, useless for everything else. Windscribe isn’t one of those but it could become one if enough of its users think like you and insist on it.
Hopefully they’ll set a soft 2TB limit or something before they do that, though.
I thought this was your Internet service provider. This is a VPN service? Holy shit what’s the point of a VPN with rules like this. Fuck em. I use proton and am looking to switch because the CEO is a right-winger but they don’t pull this shit.
AirVPN (Eddie) has port forwarding. The interface isn’t very appealing and their website is meh, but it works and I got a great deal on a 3 year subscription.
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You could pay less for that stranger but understandable
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Does that even work? These companies know the IP ranges of many VPNs and block them.
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I’ve seen a grand total of one influencer make a good argument for a VPN and that was Alan Fisher saying “have you observed your work skirting regulations that they shouldn’t be? Are you potentially reviewing legal materials on your work’s WiFi that your place of work might prefer you didn’t know about? To help avoid retaliation, you might need a VPN such as one from today’s sponsor…”
If your workplace lets you run a VPN on their device/network they’re probably not looking through your traffic
