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Why not both
i would find amusing if countries retaliate US tariffs by singling out Musk and Trump companies
That website is satire if I remember correctly.
Yes it is. It’s a Canadian satire site.
Absolute gold
“I’m sure Americans can sleep soundly knowing that their entire economic future is being steered by the guy who bankrupted four separate casinos.”
I think this is the sanest thing that has been said in the last couple of hours. I’m still recovering from the trump speech from yesterday, so not totally sure.
I also am reeling from that speech. I suspect I may have lost some brain cells in that.
Bernie Sanders had a pretty reasonable take on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlrQKv1vN_4
Top that with copyrights removal on Tesla tech.
Copyright removal on all Disney products. Role expiry date back to puss them off.
The whole “China bad America good” concept has been put in a different light of late.
Does EU/North America fear truly China because of its expansionist policies, or simply because their skin is a different colour? It’s not like the USA is above tampering in foreign government and bugging electronics.
I say go for it, Canada. If only because it’ll push Tesla off the scoreboard without the tariffs. They can’t compete.
the skin, china has been making stuff that is cheaper than american/western sourced, and they dint like it, especially with the ev situation. granted chinas other tech not so much, because china rather industrially espionage in most cases, even thier “research” is scrutinized by peer review alot.
also chinas expansion policies, they almost never follow through, or does it in a way its very slow moving.
The only difference is that “China bad America Good” has shifted to “China bad, America also bad”. None of the issues people have with China have magically gone away.
Exactly this. Why is this so hard for people to understand. China Russia the US and Israel can all be bad at once! Hating one doesn’t mean you have to side with the other!
I think a big part of why western countries “fear” china in the automotive space relates to local companies’ workers being expected to compete in a race to the bottom for compensation for labourers.
Just look at the fashion industry - sales of five dollar dresses made by workers at shein in miserable conditions dwarf those of 200 dollar dresses produced by local workers with a comfortable quality of life.
This is a fair point. China treats workers poorly, and they leverage labour camps for minorities.
Why not both?
If things keep getting worse, could Canada in theory steal IP and just try to make the best EV it can by copying others including Tesla (if it’s worth copying)?
It’s a great time to boost Canadian manufacturing. Hint hint Ottawa
On that front, they pretty much already were doing that. The big battery plant in Windsor should be ready to start ramping up production later this year. There was a lot more, but most of it has been paused since Ford decided to delay EV production at Oakville.
Yes there is no reason they wouldn’t be able to. Russia is doing it with all the companies that pulled out. The McDonald’s there is still running with Russian supplies*
Historically, companies like coke during WW2 when they lost access to the syrup invented Fanta. Wasn’t the same product as it is now but they still went their own way during war times.
*I have not verified if this is still true but it was when the war began and MD pulled out.
As much as I hate Elon, this is a terrible idea. Cheap Chinese trash mobiles built by Uyghur slave labor are not the answer.
How about we build cars in Canada instead?
Build cars in Germany, Japan, South Korea and the like. focus on something non car you can sell to them in return. You can do anything but not everything.
Building cars is something we already do in Canada. And there’s currently a lot of capacity coming online to build electric cars. Pretty much the entire car could be sourced from Canadian parts, including the batteries. I think semi-conductors are the only thing that doesn’t have a domestic source right now.
Sedans please.
Except they aren’t trash, they’re better than Teslas that’s for sure.
Except they aren’t trash, they’re better than Teslas that’s for sure.
It’s possible to be trash and also better than Tesla…
That’s a low fucking bar lol
They are still data hungry, surveillance machines that are allways online and gps tracked. We need cars without that kinda shit built in.
exactly like their US counterparts though
There has been talks about forcing Chinese cars to come over disconnected. Every new car is a surveillance machine. The western brands will not be asked to disconnect anything and it will probably be illegal to do so yourself, so Chinese cars might be an actual win in that regard.
American car company secretly send your driving data to your insurance company so they can squeeze more out from you for any minor reason they see fit. There’s no reason canada insurance company won’t do that. Scared about chinese car collecting your data is kinda missed the point, you should have stronger data protection instead.
I’de rather China have my data than an company over here. What are they gunna do with it that would affect me?
Correlation attacks, China is king of hoovering up data.
Overly dramatic example: you are in the armed forces, you have a TikTok account, you post a bunch of shit that shows you are in the armed forces. You get deployed for some covert fuckabout and are told to leave your phone at home. You turn off your phone, pick up 3 of your buddies in your Chinese EV and drive to the base/airport/sea port. Dozens of people do this and by seeing the pattern China knows that a bunch of armed forces are being told to quietly deploy.
A less dramatic example might be figuring out where politicians are by knowing where their employees are.
Why would I give a shit about China knowing about where murderers are?
Hello, ml.
Nobody hoovers up more data than the US.
Remember when Elon remotely unlocked that cybertruck recently and accessed the cameras?
Nobody hoovers up more data than the US.
The US can’t even unlock an iPhone without calling in 3rd parties. EVERY Chinese made device collects data, and every Chinese business gives full access to the Chinese government. The US government does collect data but it’s no where near the scale of the Chinese.
Remember when Elon remotely unlocked that cybertruck recently and accessed the cameras?
He unlocked a device made by a company he owns, running software they designed on a network they operate. All that shows is that Tesla’s vehicles are not properly secured and remote access can be abused by Tesla employees.
We have roughly three million ways to say “US bad” right now, and you pick a less than true one.
US government data collection is not on the scale of China. The US is limited in what it gets from companies. China is absolutely not.
Yes, the US should absolutely have more data protection laws. The EU is better. China is absolutely not.
False
What are they gunna do with it that would affect me?
Use it as blackmail if we ever end up in a war against them
that’s exactly what got us in this mess in the first place.
What mess? American Imperialism / Capitalism imploding on itself?
A foreign power having far, far too much control over our economic possessions. Information is a resource; what they do with it is inconsequential, we have to stop giving it away to people simply because they’re our ‘trade partners’ right now.
So a direct consequence of Usamerican capitalism/Imperialism, got it.
That’s what my friend in NZ told me too, they’re really good, better or the same as Tesla.
My toenail clippings are better than Teslas.
But we were fine with the usa destroying multiple countries, participating in many coups and supporting Israel for decades.
At least keep the tracking and voice-recording (for Ai) in-country. I don’t see that in a provable fashion in the cheap asian cars.
I would be sympathetic if the Uyghur stuff was true.
Do you have any substantial sources, to objectively prove your claims. I’ve never seen anything convincing.
I’m not intending to simp for China. They are authoritarian. But I’m also not going to fall for propaganda especially if it’s false. The USA has a motive for making the masses hate China.
Yes. It is absolutely shameful propaganda to the most humanist response to terrorism in history: Education and job creation. Very significant prosperity in region. The political designation of genocide is based on some unwed mothers with 4+ children going to UK to say they were now sterile, FFS. The anti-China hateful have no metrics to stop hating China. Only propaganda amplification.
It is absolutely shameful propaganda to the most humanist response to terrorism in history: Education and job creation. Very significant prosperity in region.
America said the same thing when they forced assimilation on the native population after stealing their land.
The political designation of genocide is based on some unwed mothers with 4+ children going to UK to say they were now sterile, FFS.
Again, your only defense to actual evidence is just logical fallacy. You aren’t making any argument in good faith.
The anti-China hateful have no metrics to stop hating China. Only propaganda amplification.
I actually admire a lot about the Chinese government, they’ve done wonders in recent decades to undue nearly a hundred years of foreign interference and imperialism. That doesn’t mean I’m not going to be critical of the things I don’t like about the government.
The simple fact is that they have a fairly well documented history of oppressing non-Han minorities in the country.
Oh boy, genocide denial.
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The majority of UN countries are on their side, Muslim majority countries included.
And claiming “U.N. body rejects debate on China’s treatment of Uyghur Muslims in blow to West” means a majority of countries on their side is just dishonest. China has a massive economy and is able to put political pressure on plenty of nations in the UN.
This would be like saying America has never pressured another nation into voting for something in the UN.
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even the countries that abstained are on their side.
What do you mean by on their side? Are you saying they don’t believe human rights violations happened, are you saying they are just politically aligned with China, or that worried about political backlash from China?
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linking wikipedia is providing an enormous list of sources and summaries
at this point, the uighur issue is the bullshit asymmetry principal: it’s been proven time and time again and anyone asking for “sources” isn’t arguing in good faith: they’re relying on the fact that asking for sources takes thousands of times less energy than countering
so that’s what you get: a massive list of pre-prepared sources
Dude, they’re literally doing their due diligence and recognizing that the western propaganda machine has incentive to misrepresent China. It doesn’t sound to me like they were denying any kind of genocide, just asking for legitimate information. Why would you shame that? Why would you shame an earnest request for info? Don’t you see how that plays into division of the working class?
Let’s work together here, bub. At least TrancendentalEmpire’s response wasn’t just snarky shaming.
What they were doing was textbook sealioning. This information is right there for anyone to find and has been for years.
This information is right there for those who have heard the term in the first place. This is literally the first time I’ve heard of this, so thank you for informing me, but don’t treat people like they’re horrible humans just for not knowing.
People aren’t just born knowing things.
If China is authoritarian and censors all information that makes China look bad, and spreads propaganda to other countries that those Governments are spreading propaganda to make China look bad and China isn’t actually bad, does it matter what is motivating the US to say “China Bad” when they objectively are?
I would be sympathetic if the Uyghur stuff was true.
This is denial, plain and simple.
It is not everyone else’s job to provide this ignoramus sources on the facts of the matter when we are all communicating on the internet where those facts can be found. Especially when no source can possibly be good enough when “they haven’t seen anything convincing yet” even though everyone but China and their allies are saying the same damn thing, including people who have fled China, and they are only referencing US sources.
Let’s use some simple logic here, bub.
I don’t think that being uninformed is denying genocide and I think it’s antisocial, divisive, and not beneficial to any of us to treat it as if it is.
I don’t think that being uninformed is denying genocide and I think it’s antisocial, divisive, and not beneficial to any of us to treat it as if it is.
I don’t think deleting the parent comment so context is lost is good practice. I think it is antisocial, divisive, and not beneficial to any one who wants to keep up with the conversation.
But you did it anyways. Like how OP explicitly denied a genocide is happening.
Both things happened, and that’s a fact.
I deleted it before I had any responses because I regretted posting it, and yknow what, I’m allowed to do that.
How the fuck am I supposed to know you were in the middle of typing a comment? Jfc.
I’m going to go touch some grass, I’m getting too pissed off at shit that doesn’t fucking matter.
Why would organisations who aren’t scared to criticise the west and have a really good track record like anmety intl and HRW make this up?
It’s really fucking hard for me to understand why many people have so much trouble accepting both China/Russia and the West are heavily unethical. There’s no magic place that does everything ethically, and I don’t know why we’re refusing to acknowledge the cultural genocide of a large population, leading to extreme suffering for hunderds of thousands, because it criticises one country. It doesn’t matter who did it, it absolutely is awful, and we shouldn’t be denying it. Denying it only compounds the extreme suffering the population faces.
It’s so weird to me that people who defend China’s treatment of Uyghurs turn it into a US vs China thing. You can look through my recent history and find me saying that Biden, Harris, and everyone in Congress who clapped for Netanyahu have committed genocide and can rot in hell. Trump, of course, is even worse. This isn’t a “muh both sides bad enlightened centrism” thing because this isn’t a “sides” issue to begin with. Three of the four major superpowers on Earth right now are authoritarian hellholes, and the EU is on its way to joining them with its shift toward neo-Nazism.
There is plenty of evidence widely available from organizations like human rights watch and amnesty international. Claims that deny any evidence exist of the persecution of China’s Muslim population rely on logical fallacies to attempt to obscure the validity of the body of evidence. Namely ad hominem attacks against the individual who first gathered the evidence to begin with.
While the researcher obviously has biased opinions about the CCP, that doesn’t affect the validity of the evidence gathered, most of which comes directly from publicly available information released by the CCP itself, or from leaked internal communication from party members that have been widely verified by reputable journalists and organizations specializing in human rights violations.
While I personally wouldn’t claim that there is a genocide as we traditionally understand it has occurred, it’s hard to deny that the Uyghur people aren’t being systemically oppressed or that significant human rights violations haven’t occurred.
Simply looking at publicly available census data releases by the CCP we can tell that Uyghur people are being driven from culturally important sites that are being replaced by ethnically Han Chinese, and that Uyghur populations have been shrinking at a worryingly abnormal rate.
If we look at recent history of ethnic conflict within China in tibet, Manchuria, and inner Mongolia, I fail to see why it’s logical to assume that the accusations of crimes against humanity is pure propaganda.
Han chauvinism is well documented, and even Mao Zedong spoke about how it would negatively affect the future of the party. Ethnic conflict/cleansing has been a constant in the region and is part of the foundational history of modern China.
While I personally wouldn’t claim that there is a genocide as we traditionally understand it has occurred, it’s hard to deny that the Uyghur people aren’t being systemically oppressed or that significant human rights violations haven’t occurred.
It is politicization to be overly critical of China over what is a reasonable solution to peace and prosperity in the region, while the west contributes to 1000x worse treatment of Palestinians. That politicization gap shows that there is zero concern for actual genocide or persecution and instead a desire for (or avoidance for Israel for) political criticism independent of prosperity/facts.
It is politicization to be overly critical of China over what is a reasonable solution to peace and prosperity in the region
So… Forcing an entire ethnic group into concentration camps, forced migration, forced assimilation, and depopulation is reasonable? For what, because there were a couple attacks from some extremists?
while the west contributes to 1000x worse treatment of Palestinians.
I wasn’t aware it was a competition? Human rights violations should be criticized no matter who’s doing it.
That politicization gap shows that there is zero concern for actual genocide or persecution and instead a desire for (or avoidance for Israel for) political criticism independent of prosperity/facts.
Again… I’m not the American government. I am very critical of the US governments involvement with many genocides throughout history. I am also very critical of any government who participates in similar human rights violations, because I’m not a massive hypocrite.
So… Forcing an entire ethnic group into concentration camps, forced migration, forced assimilation, and depopulation is reasonable? For what, because there were a couple attacks from some extremists?
Hard proof of all of that has never been produced. Contrary facts exist for all your points.
What do you consider hard proof?
As I said, most of the information used has been verified by independent reporters or human rights organizations.
If you required the same level of “hard proof” as you are dictating for China then most crimes against humanity never happened.
We have video and pictures of concentration camps, we have verified internal documents, we have demographics released to the public by the offending government, we have personal testimony, we have announcements from the government admitting to moderate the birth limits of an extreme minority in the country…
What else could you possibly want?
secret papers can’t be hard proof. Neither is a photo of what may be a prison. There are extremely weak documentaries trying to hype up “re-education”, but the US pledge of allegiance would be equivalent indoctrination.
If you required the same level of “hard proof” as you are dictating for China then most crimes against humanity never happened.
at the risk of whataboutism, you have Israel engaged in genocidal mass murder on video. Politics of shit talking China is far more important than any objective principle of oppression.
We have video and pictures of concentration camps, we have verified internal documents, we have demographics released to the public by the offending government, we have personal testimony, we have announcements from the government admitting to moderate the birth limits of an extreme minority in the country…
There is genuine context/exaggeration to all of these points. Demographics and income specifically show Xinxiang doing better than average in China.
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Oh I think you registered on the wrong instance
Hexbear is what you’re looking for, this way most of us won’t see your comments.
While there are still a lot of low quality things produced en masse in China, this take is getting more and more out of date.
South Korea and Japan used to make cheap crap too until their industrial output developed to the point the average quality was high.
We have reached this point to a certain degree with China too. Their EVs sure as hell are better than Tesla’s.
There’s a lot of high quality stuff coming out of China now, along with crap.
Aren’t Chrysler, Fords, and GMs already built in Canada, or at least a bunch of the parts of them?
They should ban the Cybertruck altogether for being an unnecessarily dangerous vehicle.
LOL, have you seen the EVs that are coming out of China nowadays?
If they were trash the EU and US wouldn’t put tariffs on them, because they wouldn’t threaten our own manufacturers no?
Cheap Chinese trash mobiles built by Uyghur slave labor are not the answer.
Source?
How about we build cars in Canada instead?
Another person who thinks the world is like a SIMS game… just press the button and the factory pops up, right?!
EVs are easier to build than gas cars at least
In that article it is mentioned that Trump is going back on an agreement he signed a few years ago.
Therefore agreements made with Trump do not mean anything. He will choose not to honour them if and when it is convenient to him.
But then I guess we already knew that from his business practices.
The art of the deal is to make the other side believe you are honourable, use that credibility to offer more than you intend to give and leverage them to give you what you want. Then invent a pretext to cancel the deal and keep your ill-gotten gains.
The problem with governments dealing with trump is that they trust him to be true to his word. I do not believe he will. I fear he will use this approach with Ukraine to hand them over to Poo-tin. Then when it’s to late for the international community to do anything he’ll just say Zelenskyy didn’t hold up his end of the bargain.
Electrek (the publisher of the article) seems to be a bit of a shill for Chinese EV companies, or he’s getting some kind of commission. He’s repeatedly promoted Chinese factories, goes on Chinese factory tours, etc… I don’t know what the angle is, but it’s vastly different from similar sources like Electroheads out of the UK.
That said, fuck Tesla.
Also, Canada should invest in building more micromobility devices here, like e-bikes, e-scooters, etc. The future isn’t cars, and we need more affordable, accessible modes of transportation.
Electrek (the publisher of the article) seems to be a bit of a shill for Chinese EV companies,
They are a shill for best EV options to have EVs everywhere. China has good EVs, and more than 50% of car sales are EVs because they are good. Our EVs are improving rapidly, and sales growth is good without achieving China levels, but their tech trickles down to us as slow as it is.
Also, Canada should invest in building more micromobility devices here, like e-bikes, e-scooters, etc. The future isn’t cars, and we need more affordable, accessible modes of transportation.
Electrek also shills ebikes. Mostly NA brands even if they are made in China. Agree that these are awesome urban mobility options.,
We know that new(er) cars have spyware controlled by some government or corporation. If my privacy is going to be violated, I’d rather have a hostile gov/co do it. I’m not a government employee. When it comes to national security, I’m a complete nobody. I don’t give a shit what Beijing knows about my life, because they don’t care, and probably won’t share info with the West. Maybe they’ll share it with Russia, but again, that’s irrelevant to me.
I want Washington (and, to a much lesser extent, Ottawa) to know as little as possible, because I don’t trust them, and it’s much, much easier for them to make my life difficult if they want to.
I’d like to hear your opinions on this take.
By far, you should worry about your own government disapproving of you, and then using your car to kill you. Worrying about China only applies if your government helps force war on China. Probably the reaction to war on China, by China, is bricking your car instead of targeting everyone to crash or become an Israeli pager.
Would the Chinese EVs even meet our safety standards?
Almost certainly, because our safety standards are garbage, because we force ourselves to be in lockstep with NHTSA as to not make trade and travel difficult with the US
You should also worry about if Chinese EVs meet reasonable labor standards. Which they don’t.
They meet EU standards.
That’s my concern as well. Seeing what happened with the cheap hoverboards and ebikes makes me wary of being too lenient on these.
Seize all Musk and Trump-owned assets.
Make the USA a Canadian province! Oops, got carried away.
It could be territory… province maybe in the future when they develop anything resembling good manners.
Our version of good manners is Southern Hospitality.
We have the most polite racism.
That’s too far. Just parcel out the east (well, some of the east) and west coast into separate nations and form an alliance with those ones. They should stay separate, at least until they can get over their gun and money craze.
I obviously don’t understand the economics of it and I realize that China will always have the upper hand on price but is there a reason every western EV has to be $40,000+? Like surely it’s possible to build a barebones model for less than 30k right - especially if I don’t need or even want touch screens or fancy interior materials or heated seats or anything.
If I specifically don’t want touch screens, what then?
Me too! What is the cost/benefit FOR ME? I understand what it is for the manufacturers but it’s a UX nightmare, especially when you’re trying to drive too.
Legally, cars sold in the US have to have a backup cam, so there has to be a screen, so it might as well be a touch screen.
I agree this is dumb and that’s why I drive an old car with nothing but bluetooth
My guess is that none of them are at scale to the point where the margins are great. To make the margins acceptable price had to go up.
Nothing is really profitable in auto until the whole production line is operating at full scale.
Yeah that makes sense, I bet you’re right or at least that’s a large part of it.
Reminds me of this video I saw about economies of scale specifically regarding a special part that went into a guitar. The maker could get the material and produce that part pretty cheaply until the automotive industry stopped using that same material. Suddenly they could barely source the material anymore and just had to cancel the part.
That’s crazy but makes sense. Basically benefiting from autos overflow.
Higher profit margins.
Europeans get the bulk of cheaper and smaller EVs. Meanwhile in North America, Ford stopped selling sedans. It’s a niche that car makers could fill if they wanted to.
It’s a combination of issues. In no particular order;
- precursor availability: All the stuff that EVs are made of, is made in China. If you want to build EVs it’s easier and cheaper to get all the parts in China than it is in the US
- logistics: China has more modern roads, railroads, ports etc. That makes it much easier to get parts in and finished products out
- government aid: China has prioritized EVs for a long time and has all kinds of policies to encourage EV production
- EV infrastructure: China has more EV charging stations than the US and EU combined
- limited ICE competition: China doesn’t have any big ICE vehicle companies. There are no significant groups in China advocating against EVs
Labor costs don’t seem to be a factor at all. EVs are made in modern factories that are almost completely automated. The biggest part of “precursor availability” is likely batteries. The main innovation in EVs was the batteries. The electric motors, chassis, computers, etc are all secondary to batteries that can safely hold a lot of charge and discharge reliably. China dominates that market too.
How about the rare earth materials as well as much more expensive metals in the motor and electronics construction? An ICE engine is well understood and you can pick up a higher performing aluminum block and head crate motor for ~$13k or so. The higher trim Tesla motors are ~$20k, and they can have up to four motors. That’s a huge difference.
China has more rare earth deposits than the US but that’s a bit misleading. Rare earths show up in trace amounts all over the world. China has them in higher concentrations.
The bigger issue is that China has been the main refiner of rare earths for decades. That means they have all the infrastructure for actually making it available and they’ve developed a bunch of technologies and processes to do it way cheaper and more efficiently than anyone else can.
I don’t know the pricing specifics of EV motors but I have some familiarity with electric motors, in general. The technology hasn’t really changed much in a long time. We’ve have 3 phase motors and hall effect sensors for ages. They’re better than older electric motors but the huge technology leap, that made EVs practical, was the batteries.
No way does an electric motor cost that much.
Have you seen the amount of precision engineering that goes into building a combustion engine? That is ridiculously expensive.
No way does an electric motor cost that much.
Did you check numbers before you posted or did you disagree out of hand with zero thought to it? I didn’t pull these numbers out of my ass.
https://gbtimes.com/how-much-is-a-tesla-motor-replacement/
$10k-$30k, I posted a midrange price. Another site had them as “cheap” as 7k, but either way if you need 2-4 of them it’s not cheap.
That precision engineering has been establishing itself for well over a century, we get the cheaper price thanks to the economy of numbers. piston engines were driven by steam well before ICE. Yes, I am abundantly familiar with ICE engines having built several and in fact have one under assembly in my garage right now. There’s a massive difference between a boring consumer grade crate motor and any purpose-built high-end track motor as far as engineering goes even if the parts are essentially the same.
You seem to be comparing a crate motor with the full cost of replacement of the Tesla motor. Also, is that the motor, or the whole drive unit, which from my understanding includes the differential?
Touch screens are actually cheaper than physical buttons as it’s the reason why so many electric cars have them. Most of the cost comes from the batteries so they try to save in other areas.
We should see more physical buttons back in newer electric cars as the batteries get cheaper to mass produce.
No kidding, I didn’t know that. I did some checking and it says replacement batteries are $5-15k! Well silver lining is the price is dropping precipitously:
Jan 26, 2024 - According to the DOE, the cost of a lithium-ion EV battery was 89 percent lower in 2022 than it was in 2008
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I imagine China is subsidizing the R&D of their EVs while American car companies are trying to recoup those costs
China has been subsidizing EVs since 2010.
Longer than that. China has been promoting battery technology as a strategic initiative since the 90’s.
Every major company subsidizes R&D. That’s what federal research grants are all about. The NSF, NIH, etc do.
Other US subsidies on EVs aren’t specifically restricted to R&D but US companies could apply it to that, if they want.
Definitely related. EVs are relatively new technology and internal knowledge for engineering R&D, materials, and manufacturing infrastructure all have to be spun up. All this, and you need marketing/planning folks to decide on what sort of vehicle will sell the best against their engineering capabilities.
touch screens are a lot cheaper than buttons because you only need the one. and if one trim level of a car has heated seats, they all do because it’s a lot cheaper to only produce one kind of seat.
car economics are weird.
That’s why I snatched up a Bolt before Chevy (temporarily, they say) discontinued the line. I even did upgrade it a little to get heated/cooling front seats and a heated steering wheel plus the extra safety features. $32.5k with a $7.5k rebate from the federal Clean Vehicle Credit. So $25k for a car with a 175-280 mile range. (175ish in winter when the battery is less efficient, 280 in summer).
Of course the IRS fucked up the point of sale rebate when I was purchasing, but it’s finally incoming with my taxes this year.
Western culture is built on delivering value to shareholders first and foremost.
Switching from one Authoritarian to another is never the solution.
