- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
You must log in or register to comment.
Can someone explain the 4D chess going on here? AFAIK this was just tweet diplomacy, the US hasn’t passed anything about this. So why would google want to handle all the complaints and backlash they’ll take for this?
I think something official was actually signed in the last few days. Dumbest timeline.
So why would google want to handle all the complaints and backlash they’ll take for this?
Because it’s worth getting on trump’s “good side”, per Ajit Pai’s reasoning
backlash? where? did google received any complaint ever?
From official heads of state even: https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/mexico-president-presents-letter-google-about-gulf-mexico-name-change-2025-01-30/
Time for a repeat comment: Organic Maps does everything Google Maps does (except traffic conditions), and is FOSS. Please encourage places to contribute business information to Open Street Maps.
I think this is important. That said, traffic info is the whole ballgame for many people. People who live, work, and drive in metro areas frequently use map applications even when driving everyday routes to avoid traffic.
I don’t see Google/Waze/Apple maps getting any less popular unless there is a FOSS alternative that includes live traffic, which does not seem possible while remaining free. People will choose free every time, especially since Google maps works so well.
Personally, I would pay some amount for a privacy-minded alternative, something like OrganicMaps with live traffic. But I doubt it could ever attain the user base it would need to provide accurate traffic info.
Yea, I really wish I had more spare time. Algorithms like this are an area of expertise for me, and I’d love to build an anonymized service that works with Organic Maps. It’s annoying when I know it is something I could make that would support high volume, but just don’t have time for (mainly because of all the ongoing optimization it would require).
“Except traffic” is not a little thing. It’s like putting up an ad for a house with all the features you’d expect, except a roof.
With my daily commute, there are a dozen routes I can take and traffic conditions make it so that from day to day, there can be an hour difference between different routes. It’s literally the only reason I use navigation apps over a cheap GPS unit with no live online connection requirement to navigate.
Traffic condition can only be provided if you track millions of phones. I don’t want that, so I opt out. I don’t want Google to manage traffic for me.
Or you can do it like News stations do and just use a fucking camera feed and police acanner to have someone say “hey - there’s a lot of cars at Interstate 99 and Main” or “There’s reports of a wreck at 300 Elm street”.
Traffic reporting doesn’t require device-level tracking.
to have someone
In order to do this at scale, that’s a lot of someones who all need to be paid. You’d need several people, per city, to manually review traffic cameras and manually issue reports.
Unless you want to pay $200/mo for traffic updates, you can’t do this using humans.
Growing up, we had 5 TV stations and 20 radio stations that managed to do it just off of cereal advertisements. I’d gladly pay 5 bucks a month for it, and with millions of people in the metro area just having 1% of people use a $5/month service you’d be looking at 6 figures a month, which is plenty to pay for the service.
The only way to know if it would work would be to roll the dice and make a startup. You’ll need enough cash to cover a year or two of projected operations, the capital to develop the application and infrastructure in addition to the money required to advertise the service.
At the same time you have to realize that your proposition for potential customers is ‘You can pay us $5 to get the service that Google gives you for free and it only works in this one metro area.’ De-googling is a popular topic on nerd social media but the average person would gladly trade all of their privacy to pay less money.
If we could magic wand a company into existence and capture all of the privacy focused customer base in a large metro area then yeah, the company could pay the operating expenses. But going from ‘This is a cool idea’ to ‘We have a successful service that has a positive cash flow’ is a hard, capital intensive, process.
Talking about FOSS; I prefer OsmAnd because its licence is GPLv3, as opposed to the Apache 2 licence from Organic Maps.
Yup, big OsmAnd fan, too. We use it for backpacking and biking, but have found OM to be more driver friendly, which is why I recommended it here.
Where are you located? I’m still seeing the correct name and I’m in the USA
Not sure if memeing or serious
In Taiwan it says:
Gulf of Mexico(Gulf of America)
Same for me in the US!
Same here in Canada, though I get the American version with an American VPN.
Same for me in Australia
I wish I could degoogle my android phone. Sadly, it would mean many of the apps I use would stop working…
As far as I understand, only F-droid apps would work on e.g. GrapheneOS - is this wrong? I believe there would be issues with
- Local chatting app
- Local map app (As good as OrganicMaps is, it seems to have limited support in route finding)
- Local banking app
- Local investing app
- Apps for university affairs
- Zoom
I feel so sad that I am locked to the platform…
As already commented, the vast majority of apps are fine with Graphene and its optional sandboxed Play Services. Mainly some banking apps can be tricky, but otherwise you’re good. You can also use alternatives like Aurora Store rather than Google directly to get your existing apps which aren’t on F-Droid; the only real exception there is paid ones.
I got a Pixel and made the switch over about a year ago, and it has been pretty smooth sailing. I also really do appreciate having full control over which permissions to allow each app. I know some people do prefer to run Google’s stock camera app or keyboard, but it’s easy enough to not give those network access to phone home.
Same as almost everyone, I need some apps that just won’t work, even with sandbox GSM and Play (ie: banking apps, ev charging, my kids’ school reporting app), so I just have a sub-200 dollars phone just for that (One Plus n200 is now 84 dollars).
Since I only use apps when there’s no other option (web version and PWA for everything else), it’s actually refreshing. I charge my car at home unless I’m on a road trip, and only use banking apps 1 day of the month to get paid and pay bills. Outside of that, I’m home free with everything self hosted and absolutely no social networks other than Lemmy and Mastodon.
Unfortunately, if you want privacy, you need to compromise. However, absolutely nothing will make me drop my GrapheneOS use for everything else.
I get it that’s not optimal, but the alternative, in my opinion is even worse.
Good luck degoogling, and I wish you enjoy the mental health improvement once you do.
For most of those things you could probably use the browser on a degoogled phone? I can’t speak to your specific banking or university apps.
You might want to set up a separate work profile to sandbox that browser usage and/or dodgy apps (see Shelter if you can’t do this through the Android settings).
How do people feel about e/OS? I just started playing around with it on an old phone and it seems to work with most apps, including banking and Google apps (their store has an optional Google login).
You can get by for most apps with MicroG which is a cut down implementation of play services but some apps will absolutely refuse to run on a non-factory Android image.
Last time I was on a custom ROM I got most things to work to some extent but some jush didn’t work e.g. NFC payments via Google Pay.
IIRC there’s legislation being discussed in the EU that could compel Google to offer hardware signatures for custom ROMs in future.
You can install any app on GOS. You can use sandboxed google play to use the gplay store as normal, or Aurora Store if you just want gplay apps but not services.
GrapheneOS has the option to run sandboxed google play services which you can then download any google play store app. This allows for much greater security as the apps cannot see the other apps you download. Also, you could use Aurora Store which allows play store app downloads without a google account.
There are issues that can pop up and is something you’d need to look into on app by app basis. Lately, it seems they have most banking apps working though.
I feel like my local bank etc. is relatively shitty in terms of software, so I am expecting it to not work anywhere other than android & iOS. Local map apps and local messaging app is the bigger issue for me, though.
Yea it can be tricky. If you have the time to test it out its worth the privacy upgrade.
Just be sure you have an accurate image of your default OS, for your carrier if applicable, so you can revert.
You should check out Sapio maybe someone has already checked if your banking app works!
I moved to GrapheneOS a few months ago and haven’t really looked back. Someone else below covered using the Sandboxed Google play / Aurora Store (I use both, in addition to fdroid).
Although I could conceivably install more apps, using GrapheneOS had made me think more deeply about whether I actually need an app, instead of using a web browser. It’s true that using the web is a degraded experience (likely intentionally so, in some cases), but this is a cost I’m willing to pay for better security and privacy.
Finally, I wanna rep Magic Earth as a solid alternative to Google maps. Route finding is accurate and includes traffic warnings, etc. It uses OpenStreetMap data FWIW.
Yeah but some apps just do not have website equivalent, which is the main issue. For instance, the local messaging app does not have web version.
On the Magic Earth app, does it show multiple alternative routes? I found Organic maps problematic in that it only gave a single route.
F-droid works on any Android phone, doesnt need to be GrapheneOS. I have installed in on regular installs plenty of times.
i know its not as easy / inconvenient, but is there any way to use the companies website instead of the app? For example, i usually log into my banks website to check things or to make a transfer between accounts. Yes you cant scan a check or make desposits, but i also not use a lot of companies App’s in the first place. I just dont understand why everyone needs apps - do you really need an app for your ISP?
Yeah, I meant that most apps are not available from F-droid.
Local messaging app does not support web version. Silly/outrageous, I know; guess they want iron grip on the data. What can I do though, when everyone uses it.
You do not use banking through mobile at all? Seems that would be inconvenient at times.
Yes, Tim Apple bent the knee, but the company seems to be holding steadfast.
IIRC Google shows different names and borders depending on the location you’re accessing it from. They just follow whatever the local government thinks is right.
In Portugal, it appears as “Gulf of Mexico (Gulf of America)”
That has to be illegal…
In Germany, it is still “Golf von Mexiko”.
Edit: when you zoom in, it is the same as in Portugal.
Same in Canada.
There’s no thought in our government, so they’re already messing that one up. Also, it’s just the president who cares (and I guess some people who voted for him), I’d imagine a majority of people here aren’t calling it the new name (or even know the name changed).
I’ve always heard locals just call it “the Gulf.”
Slow your horses there partner. That sounds an awful lot like facts and logic. We don’t do that stuff here, so quit using that brain of yours. Take the outrage bait and join in on this circlejerk.
Yes, big international companies bowing down to local authoritarian governments… nothing outrageous going on there in the world. This definitely hasn’t helped dictators remain in power or target citizens, jerk away!
Use that logic to form sarcastic, misconstrued, and dangerous viewpoints and throw facts out the window! How fun!
Lad. Google has always done this.
You access Google maps from different locations and you’ll see names and border changes.
Because, and this might surprise a sheltered yanks such as yourself. There’s a whole world outside your borders, and different cultures call different locations different names.
You guys have got way bigger fish to fry than this.
Live in the south Bud, your yank shit can go out the window. We have bigger fish to fry than the worlds largest company that influences elections and controls our data and produces algorithm’s to ensure our behavior?
The point is Google has always done this shit, just because someones been pissing in your cornflakes every morning doesn’t mean you can’t get upset when they eat asparagus. Or better yet, maybe care they’re pissing in your shit to begin with?
It’s not about “bigger fish to fry”, ain’t no one frying fish in this fucker. We’re just talking and spreading awareness, idk wtf you’re doing here besides complaining about people being aware (this is a degoogle community after all).
(this is a degoogle community after all).
And there’s way more important thing to complain about when it comes to Google then something as routine as this.
The only thing you are spreading awareness about, is how sheltered you are.
This same thing has been done for the Persian/Arabian Gulf, something that I can’t help be suspicious that it’s never been brought up.
Holy hell, talk about projection with your sheltered remarks. Did you try searching for persian arabian gulf before commenting? “I haven’t seen anyone complaining about one thing, so no one should be complaining about this thing.” You’re seriously saying this?
“I deem anyone not agreeing with me as a sheltered yank, I am definitely not a sheltered southerner with a bias”
I wish I could actually add anything to this conversation but your last response was just a “nuh uh!” with more insults sprinkled in (I guess to make you feel better about yourself? how’s that going?). You’ve wasted time proclaiming this is a waste of time. Glad you got bigger fish to fry, can’t wait for what great subject we should be focusing on with our comments.
I guess everyone would benefit from seeing your comment history and all the great fish frying you’re doing. Us plebs talking about such mundane things is such a waste since you’ve highlighted it for the community. I imagine there’s a whole plethora of comments you made about Google that will help lead us into a better future.
Typical sheltered yank. Only complaining when something affects you.
great subject we should be focusing on with our comments
Something actually relevant to Google? And not standard operating procedure.
I would hate to see what would happen when you learn about how Google maps handles all the disputed borders in the world.
You’re right. No more braining!
I’ve reported an issue. Enough people do it they might do something.
Osmand+ still gulf of mexico… Just sayin.
Australia google maps user here:
Organic Maps is still keeping it real for me
Using the website from outside of the US shows it with its proper name, but then the asshat version in parentheses.
I have no use for a map service that isn’t sure about the names of places.
Yeah, same here in Australia.
Same in the US when you zoom out.
Might be caching though, those tiles are probably cached.
Google has the ability to stand up to trump. To destroy him, frankly.
But they’d have to not be little bitches, so I guess they don’t.
Degoogled since 2018
hardcore mode, google domains blocked by DNS
YouTube scrap data
GrapheneOS with used Pixel
Preferred search engine?
Self hosted Searxng for me
I’ve been using startpage for about a year now, has worked great.
Isn’t that just Google with an extra MITM for everything? Sure it protects your privacy a little bit but the same bad actors are still getting their ad revenue from your searches, correct? Or do I just not understand how start page works?
SearXNG, personally.
Same, same. Fuck Google.
I’m never going back.
“degoogle” - uses Google phone
100% These people think they are sticking it to Google by buying a pixel and installing a custom ROM. Instead they just inflated Google’s user count.
GrapheneOS is not a custom ROM and I bought my phone second-hand, so I didn’t give my money directly to Google
This will be a problem until a non-google open OS is adopted for mobile phones. Right now that list is incredibly short and nothing competes in the flagship department. I don’t see it changing anytime soon because gen x and millenials may be the last generations that have a signifigant portion of itself that has a grasp of how computers work beyond “tap app icon, app does things”.
Thing I took for granted like how a file system works is lost on my kids (late Z early alpha). Explaining what a file extension is like teaching a new language. I used to think “training wheels” for learning computering via tablets and phones and touch screens were a good thing but there is nothing that compels people today to shed themselves of them. It feels very reminiscent of my childhood and teaching my boomer dad how to right click. I think computer literacy needs to be required education, but I’m afraid that the definition for computer literacy might be meaningless nowadays if it doesn’t go beyond open app store, install app, run app.
US public education computer literacy is dead, and it’s not going to get better for at least 5+ years, best case scenario. Even if the person that is elected after Trump is a Democrat, it will take years to rebuild to where we were before big tech started bribing school IT departments. You think Apple/Google/Microsoft give a flying fuck about computer literacy being taught in schools? Because that’s who currently decide the computer literacy program that the public school will provide. Whichever vendor they decide to go with. At this point I’m not convinced that Google is a better choice than the others, but it’s also akin to choosing the least shitty sandwich at a shit-sandwich buffet.
In hindsight, this has been a downward trend since the proliferation of smart phones circa 2012. Google (android) isn’t the best choice, but it is much better being open source over other ecosystems namely Apple. There is also an issue I strongly suspect that wireless carriers wouldn’t allow open hardware/software on their networks because they have baked in restrictions in the major OSes on how you can access the network like tethering. I don’t expect that to change for the better either because even when net neutrality was a thing wireless was exempt from the rules. Kinda reminds me how back in the day ISPs had to be forced to offer naked DSL (internet from the phone company without requiring phone service). This all has deep issues that won’t be resolved anytime soon if ever. I’m putting my money on Linux becoming an actual threat to Microsoft and Apple in the desktop, laptop, handheld space and then that spreading into the mobile and tablet space. Depending on how Apple and Google antitrust situations are handled, we could start to see a shift by the end of the decade at best. This is why the tech sector will cozy up and do the bidding of whoever is in power. They won’t run the risk of drawing the ire of the government to break up their monopolies so long as the party in power believes tech companies are in their party’s pocket. This shift happened when Biden’s election was inevitable toward Democrat favored polices and it’s happening now for Republican favord polices since the last Biden Trump debate made a Trump victory inevitable.
My points are the tech sector is blatantly doing whatever it can to keep its power and change won’t happen quickly if it happens at all.
This trend started waaaay before 2012. When I graduated highschool the only computer class that was offered was a basic MS Office and advanced MS office. The people making these type of decisions for public schools are rarely tech literate themselves, they physically cannot make an informed choice. This will not be resolved until big tech is dissolved, or strong regulations are pushed by the voting population. If anyone wants their children to be tech literate I recommend getting your kids in front of a keyboard and mouse instead of a touchscreen as early as you would allow them to use a tablet. The tablet will be easier for both of you, and that’s exactly what they want.
It’s a funny irony but a Pixel with GrapheneOS is the gold standard for mobile device security. Buy it secondhand and cut out their profit.
Sure, sure. As long as you can trust Google’s custom silicon and custom security processor. I sure as fuck don’t, regardless of what Graphene OS claims. They are going to need to go to much greater lengths to assure me of that, and I can pretty much guarantee the Graphene devs won’t be able to do that.
Leaked Cellbrite docs indicated they couldn’t get in. I’d consider that pretty reasonable assurance. If you’re implying that Google has a backdoor… I think the argument against large/unstable conspiracies would apply.
This is so much horseshit I can’t even begin to unpack it. You really think those docs aren’t edited? They are 100% verified truth? That is a hunch at best. And so is my claim, it’s a ‘vibe’. I have zero proof of my claims, but I wouldn’t do anything I consider ‘secure’ on any Android device.
There is no fucking way in hell I would consider any Android device a secure device, in any way shape or form. It is, at best, a controlled device that most users do not have control over.
And claiming that anyone that doesn’t buy into the cellblite ‘leaks’ is a conspiracy theorist is also horseshit. (Or any leaks for that matter)
You can literally monitor the outbound DNS on a pixel with graphene and no apps and you’ll see zero DNS requests to any Google servers. Quit spredding FUD
What’s the alternative?
For me Linux has been working pretty well
Linux on a mobile phone? Which device? Which Distribution? What works 'pretty well? What doesn’t work all that well?
On a phone ?
Honestly? In 2025? In the real world? Apple is the only alternative. And it really actually hurts my soul to type this reply out. I hate Apple. I think they are clowns. I hate closed platforms, and I think Mac’s are trash because of it. I have used every single version of Android. All of them, even pre-stable. The only alternative to Google is 2025, in regards to a mobile OS that works with my services and devices that I already own is iOS. The only way to get that is to buy a phone from Apple. And ‘normies’ care VERY MUCH about being able to use their already purchased shit. I wish Europe or Asia would actually try to compete against US big tech. It’s a very strange marketplace, nearly the entire planet trusts US companies with basically their entire infrastructure. The only major players in computing are US based companies, aside from MAYBE Canonical/Ubuntu. In the mobile market, I don’t see a way out of the duopoly at the current moment. If my phone died today I would replace it with an iPhone. And I wouldn’t be happy about it.
Apple is the only alternative.
Nah. Fuck Apple! I know it may be too much but they’re dead to me after I bought AN OFFICIAL REFURBISHED Apple device for my dad (old had problems) and received it with a motherboard problem (?), it couldn’t read the sim for more than 1 hour straight. Contacted support multiple times and “Try this useless troubleshooting steps you already tried countless times” or "The sim is ruined so it doesn’t touch the sim pins correctly (or some bs like that) " or “It’s your carrier” or “From our remote tests, the phone works perfectly” or other Apple shit I forgot. After my last call I said “You either take my phone and check it or refund me”, they took it to check if was the phone, got it back ~2 days later FUCKING WORKING as it should. I guess was really the sim, not the phone 🤔🤔
The worst part is: They didn’t even care to give me something in return for the trouble! No, not money but they could’ve extended my warranty for a month or 2 as an apology but “Nah, we can’t. Fuck you now”
I’m reading this as Apple fixed your refurbished phone like you asked them to. I do not see how you should be entitled to extra warranty because of this, or any other compensation. I can assure you that Google would also not extend your warranty for an issue of this nature. My friend is dealing with pixel warranty support as we speak and it sure as hell doesn’t sound any better. I totally understand ‘writing off’ a company after you feel personally wronged by them, but I wasn’t including warranty issues on refurbished phones in my requirements for my next mobile device. You asked what the alternative is and realistically that’s the only one for 99.99% of the population.
My choice is to just not have a smartphone. Something like an old Nokia is what I use, CatB40 specifically but the company licensed to make those no longer exists. I hope Cat find someone else and they still make a line of dumb phones not just smartphones but I don’t really expect it any time soon.
If mine dies probably just get a regular dumbphone for like £10. Can’t collect much data if all it’s capable of doing is calls and SMS which I rarely even use.
That’s super cool for you. If I didn’t work in IT I might try to achieve something similar. But honestly suggesting that the average person on the street go back in time almost 20 years in regards to their mobile device is just going to get you laughed out of the room. Do you use mobile banking? Do you carry a camera around with you at all times? Do you listen to music? For me music is a big one, I’m not listening to any god damned radio commercials and I don’t have CD player in my car anymore. How would you entertain yourself on a long car ride alone in this scenario? Do you have any IoT or smart home devices? How do you interact with them? I know a few people that are a bit older than me that don’t ‘get’ smartphones but then use a tablet on the couch pretty often. My uncle doesn’t have a smartphone, and is kinda smug about it, but also doesn’t really leave the house without his android tablet. I guess if you don’t actually want to do any computing on the go a dumb phone is fine for short texts and phone calls, but finding one that works with 5G is another challenge these days.
Nah. If it’s a choice between GrapheneOS on a pixel or an iPhone I’d take my chances with the pixel.
It would be pretty easy to detect if there was unexpected traffic with any google services.
You do you but IMO Graphene is your best chance in 2025.
Nah. If it’s a choice between GrapheneOS on a pixel or an iPhone I’d take my chances with the pixel.
Why? Not trying to be a dick about it, I just want to hear your justification. Thanks.
deleted by creator
I just need to use Gemini until this semester is over, then I’ll be degoogling completely. I just wish I could deapple too, but nope. Nearly every OS for mobile is built on android, browsers that are for “security” are run on chromium, safari is good for security but you have to pay for iCloud plus or whatever they call it to get the private relay option, it is infuriating that we just can’t get freedom from this garbage. Things are purposefully made to be so expensive that only huge companies can afford to run it, openAI and meta literally pirated books, articles, journals, etc and although WE don’t like it, the government doesn’t care because OpenAI and meta are big companies who can do those things; neither Trump nor Biden gave a shit about it. We need
