Is this not the reason the second amendment exists? Regards An Australian Edit: I’m not advocating for violence. More so “a well regulated militia” which could be established by protesters or Democratic Governors for genuine self defence.
Protesters who use violence to protect their neighbors will be killed. This is fascism. We can’t use force to defend ourselves.
Best and simplest answer is that technically they’re still considered law enforcement. Nearly everything they’re doing is constitutionally illegal, but only the courts have the right to determine that.
If we start threatening police with guns, every single nook and cranny of our legal system justifies the police murdering us. Maybe some cops would get paid leave for a few weeks, or possibly even lose their badges, but that’s about it.
And then they’ll use it to justify an even more inflated budget for ICE, and everything will get exponentially worse.
So second amendment is totally useless then.
Yes. It was a fantasy written in a different time.
It is if the majority of the people with guns support the traitorous government.
Against a government with modern weaponry? Yes.
So, cowardice. Gotcha.
It would just escalate things. A few armed confrontations one week and the next week it would be tanks and Apache helicopters. Cops love to escalate.
Escalation seems to be needed. This is what America’s 2nd amendment is supposed to be used for.
Bunch of hypocrites.
They’re escalating anyway, in the absence of an actual justification they just make shit up and everyone knows it, refusing to actually resist them accomplishes absolutely nothing
Yup
I see u! How much are they paying you to ferment chaos?
*foment, dumbass
So you understood what I was getting at? Language is descriptive, not proscriptive. People who make fun of others for jargon or misuse typically don’t have much going for their argument or position.
Also, see here: https://www.dailywritingtips.com/ferment-and-foment/
I understand that you’re attempting to discredit someone who is 100% correct by making shit up and that you’re also illiterate
Because people won’t open carry when it’s against the law so they don’t get arrested. Unlike ICE, they’re following the law.
I believe open carry is illegal here in Illinois.
The meta I’ve heard is also that, if you’re gonna brandish or draw a gun, you’d better be prepared to kill with it. I’m not prepared to die shooting cops so I don’t feel like carrying. In the confusion of a gun fight I don’t think I’d have much to add by shooting anyone
Like if someone told me that the 2nd amendment just causes more shootings and doesn’t actually protect people on average I’d say yeah…
the meta youve heard js harmful.
“Brandish or draw a gun…better be prepared to kill with it.” — Normative, but the law is dead serious.
Illinois doesn’t have a standalone “brandishing” statute; threatening display can be charged as assault (often aggravated assault when a deadly weapon is involved). Separately, deadly force is only justified if you reasonably believe it’s necessary to prevent imminent death/serious bodily harm (or a forcible felony). Drawing in a way that threatens without lawful justification can be a crime.
The meta I’ve heard is also that, if you’re gonna brandish or draw a gun, you’d better be prepared to kill with it.
That’s dumb as fuck.
Glad I stopped trying to find logic in the average person.
Sounds like you’re the average person.
The only reason to open carry to a protest is as a threat. But if all you do is carry then it’s an empty threat. Don’t make threats you’re not willing to follow through on. And this is a dumb threat to try to follow through on.
Also a lot of the people who are against ICE are also against guns, which is pretty obvious. You don’t need to be embedded in us politics to know this.
You say that, but my father, when I was I growing up, told me that the only thing you’re supposed to aim a gun at is something you want to destroy.
Aiming a gun isn’t the same as brandishing or drawing it.
Maybe your father should’ve spent less time teaching you about guns and more time helping you with your English homework.
Glad I stopped trying to find logic in the average person.
Thanks for reinforcing this.
Aiming a gun isn’t the same as brandishing or drawing it.
I think it’s a distinction without a difference when you’re in a situation where both parties have firearms (and one party has the backing of the state and a monopoly on violence).
Please demonstrate this by aiming your gun at a cop and arguing that you weren’t brandishing with however many brand new holes.
Are you fucking stupid?
Aiming a gun at a cop is significantly worse than brandishing. Why would I try to argue what you’re saying unless I’m an idiot?
Oh, wait a minute. Gotta tap the sign.
Glad I stopped trying to find logic in the average person.
Also ignored. I know I won’t be able to tolerate any more drivel from someone like you.
In colorado last month, a teen was shot dead by police for simply saying he was going to shoot up a business. No fire arm was involved on his part. Just an aggrevated teen having a mental health crisis. The mental health crisis team didnt even get a chance to show up. The cops killed the kid within 5 minutes of getting there.
The cops here dont give a fuck about the distinction. They are trained to shoot to kill once they feel scared in america. By the IDF.
Keep going, you’ll cum soon.
Are you an ammosexual?
How’s that boot taste?
Armed victims increase the cost of tyranical actions but modern warfare and thus miltia movements is not just (have weapon, intimidate or kill enemy). Honestly one of the failures of the defense of the second amendment has been the failure to modernize and includr other parts of warfare.
Honestly there is a mixture of denial in what is actually happening and support too
I’ll give you a real answer instead of all of these other dork ass answers.
First, there aren’t enough of us to do so.
Second, you really haven’t thought through the repercussions of open carrying. Which relates to the first reason.
Open carrying puts a huge target on you. You need lots and lots of people to remain “safe”. And you won’t be safe. What are you going to do, shoot an ice agent if they try to arrest you? If that’s your goal, why open carry? Do you think that the government here is going to suddenly follow constitutional law around a citizens right to bear arms? As they’re literally illegally arresting people?
Sooner or later the amount of guns in this country is going to catch up to the ruling class but it’s not going to be at a protest.
I live in a city that’s half black, in one of several gayborhoods. I keep wondering when black and pink panthers will form and start patrolling. Probably when we get hit with our first localized stochastic terrorism incident. There’s a rainbow crosswalk that rednecks love to come do burnouts on. Tensions run high with highly conservative MAGA folks dominating the rural areas just miles from our very flammable houses with rainbow flags.
But you know what happens when the panthers start patrolling? Suddenly, gun control.
Our cops wouldn’t arrest them but the feds would probably escalate it. I am not sure how it’d play out today.
people are cowards
Because people who are legal concealed carry permit holders regularly get shot in the back by police. People who act like you can stand up to a major world military are idiots.
Don’t turn your back on the police and don’t face them alone, fucking duh. Cops are cowards, they’ll be a lot more hesitant to shoot someone if there’s a credible risk of dozens/hundreds of other people immediately shooting back.
No shit. That’s the problem. You bring your friends and the cops will bring their tanks. Then what, have a dick measuring contest?
… Oh wait, they’ll gun you all down and laugh about it instead.
So yeah, guns can be used, but let’s not pretend flexing your firearm in public will easily accomplish your goal. Be thoughtful and careful about when and where.
We had tanks in Afghanistan, didn’t stop us from losing. Nobody in history, no matter how well armed, has ever won a war against a dedicated insurgency.
It’s kind of like how many people are afraid of geese. An angry goose can give significant bruises and is basically impossible for an average person to restrain without killing the goose, so the only option is to run away. Because the easy win of breaking the goose’s neck is not on the table for most people.
The US lost in Afghanistan because the goal was to turn it into a functioning democracy, and the local culture did not support that. If the goal had been “winning”, the Army was entirely capable of slaughtering the large majority of the population and then importing settlers to numerically overwhelm the remnant population. Like our ancestors did to the Native Americans.
An insurgency vs an oppressive government is nothing at all like a pedestrian vs a goose, nobody has ever been killed by a goose. The goal was never to create a democracy in Afghanistan, it was just to plunder oil and opium. Wholesale unrestrained slaughter of the civilian population would have destroyed any plausible deniability about our actual goals and united the entire region far more effectively, giving us less time to loot. Also the US can’t afford to slaughter our own population like we did to native americans because we need their labor for our economy to function.
This right here. Asymmetrical warfare is terrible for modern occupying armies.
don’t face them alone
*pervasive surveillance state has entered the chat*
Idk how you figure that has anything to do with whether or not you open carry alone
How do you organize an armed group that’s big enough to be effective without the fascists hearing about it in advance?
You probably don’t, catching them completely off guard isn’t a reasonable expectation or a good reason not to try
skill issue
No, that’s when the tanks come in. Have you forgotten that the police have used airplanes and bombs to subdue people? They have even destroyed entire neighborhoods. In what world do you live where you think you can win here? You will be squashed just like millions before you and the world will keep turning.
Nobody in human history has ever won a war against a dedicated insurgency. You’re historically/militarily illiterate and a coward.
If you define failed movements as either “not wars” or “not dedicated”, sure. A recent depressing example I am assuming is definitioned out of your view is Hong Kong, which is firmly under the control of mainland China. A slightly more distant example is Northern Ireland, which is firmly part of Britain.
Hong Kong was definitely not even close to a dedicated insurgency, in large part because the majority of the population appears to understand that they’re better off with China than they ever would be with the UK. China never even came close to deploying tanks and bombs either, terrible example.
Northern Ireland was much more successful while they were still fighting, then popular support for the IRA waned due to concessions on the part of the UK because they could see they weren’t going to win.
They folded under pressure, they knew they were dealing with the risk of being disappeared.
Cool story
And you stopped arguing and started making personal attacks so this conversation serves no further purpose.
No, I made a coherent historical argument and then accurately personally attacked you, you’re using the second part as an excuse to ignore the first part but we both know you’ve got no counter-argument. Like I said, fucking coward.
The answer is that people aren’t willing to die in the tens of thousands to millions when they hope to unseat the scum in 26 ot 28
Because trump is hoping people will do something stupid so that he can overreact and put the entire country in lock down?
Unless you’re going for a violent uprising, violent protests typically do less than large scale continuous peaceful protests
The problem is that the latter also doesn’t happen in the US, it’s as if Americans just don’t care…
Oh yes, I know the excuses, we have a job, we have a family to feed, and DUDE YOU ARE A JEW IN GERMANY 1934, WOULD YOU PLEASE FRIGGING DO SOMETHING ALREADY?
even if no one does anything drastic, trump will escalate anyway. we may get something staged like with charlie kirk, but they may not even find a bullshit reason to justify themselves.
I’m not advocating for violence and 100% agree on the effectiveness of peaceful protests.
it’s as if Americans just don’t care…
They’ve been propagandized over generations into not trying. They have been lead to believe that what is here now is good and don’t see that it could be better.
Why do people think that guns stop bullets? Guns attract bullets.
Guns enable the oppressed to fight back against their oppressors.
Look at Iran to see what happens when people try to protest against abuse without having firearms to protect themselves from said abuse.
Ice thugs arresting unarmed citizens and lawful temporary residents brandish firearms and shove you into a van.
Ice thugs arresting armed citizens will probably shoot first.
In no case will they identify themselves or allow for an orderly review of all the paperwork every citizen would surely have with them at all times.
Americans are domesticated cowards
Don’t have kids, leave the country if you can afford to.
Yes, we are. Unfortunately, I cannot afford to leave. If I could, my partner and I are unmarried, so it would be hard to find a place we could both move to, and I don’t think she’s willing to leave her dad. This stress has been at a dull roar since last November. I am not OK. I am not OK.
Im an american who does not believe in guns as effective. They have bigger guns after all. Im a city boy though and do think gun laws should be local but never disallowed on private property where the owner allows it. I compare it to the old westerns were you had to give up your gun to the sheriff while you were in town.
Because the White House is looking for an excuse to have the military start slaughtering civilians and imprisoning democrats. A general strike is what we need to do
We need both
At a certain point we have to fight back.
The argument of “we can’t respond to their violence with violence or they will become more violent” doesn’t hold water when they are getting increasingly violent anyway.
It’s a coward’s fallacy
We may reach that point.
We should try a general strike first. We don’t even need to combine it with protests. We just have everyone stay home and refuse to work. You can fight the government by playing old video games or watching TV.
The only significant general strike planned right now happens in 2028 from the Auto Workers Union.
It’s a coward’s fallacy
Most of us are cowards, so this checks out.
It is very cavalier to say that unless you are willing to be one of the first sacrifices.
im already in the line of fire for being trans, may as well take some nazis with me
I do understand your point but the military was told to attack and commit war crimes on American civilians so I just think that a general strike would be the most effective strategy in the situation we currently face. That’s just my opinion on the approach that would be the most efficient at this time.
Once 11mil more strike cards are filled out it begins.
Otherwise we are waiting until 2028 when the Auto Workers Union starts their planned general strike
I will keep trying but I have very little faith in my fellow countrymen
Italy made it happen today with no preparation
I was once on a train in Italy and the train had a wildcat strike. It was just that train and only in that one location. Everyone on the train was resigned, because it’s part of the culture.
Italy has had a long history of radical communist and anarchists, actually having political status and pushing back continuously. Here we are, trying to make it part of our own local cultures. There’s a lot of work to do.
Italy has massive nation wide unions (syndicates) and these strikes had more participation than any other in recent years. They exist today because of huge support for communists in the WW2 aftermath. I don’t think the US has anything of the sorts
No I think McCarthyism was detrimental to our unions
They didn’t grow up isolated in a country 50x the size of Italy with a completely different system of values and it isn’t legal for their newspapers and government to use propaganda against them.
Tbh i don’t even think half the country knows what a strike is, let alone has class consciousness
If you feel like participating you can go fill out a strike card.
The working people of italia are all joined by a single piece of spaghetti
it isnt legal for their newspapers and govt to use propaganda against them and a different system of values
I’m sorry, what?
Mussolini’s grandchild literally represents Italy in the European Parliament, you’re pretending america is some special fascist wonderland, when it’s just a culture built on dispossession, which plenty of Italians have migrated to, contributed to, and benefitted from
I’ll give you one thing, Italy has a much higher union density than the usa (30% compared to 10%), i know for a fact it’s near impossible to get younger folk in a settler nation to join a union
anyway whatever, watching a bunch of yanks suddenly start up with has anyone thought about a general strike? will never not give me a laugh
join your union, read Lenin, start exercising
.ml
Blocked
It’s the most powerful tool in our arsenal. And it’s just sitting right at our feet. But we just won’t pick it up. I don’t get it.
General strike now.
