It is clear that the signal to noise ratio of the WWW is getting worse. It’s much harder to find good content when using a good old search engine. And if it’s good it is usually hosted on Reddit or Stackexchange.
So remember, even if it’s easy too Google something (well, it isn’t nowadays), we want to create a fediverse of good content that helps people (I hope). So, it’s always better to write a real answer if you have the time and energy. Please help boost the SNR and reverse the AI fueled information degradation loop.
Check on Ecosia!
If you don’t show me that you at least made some effort to investigate: No.
Its a bit annoying when i google something and search forums and cant find an answer and i go to ask reddit or a forum and someone says"just google it" like am i really expected to make a preamble every ask-post that I’ve searched already?
i really expected to make a preamble every ask-post that I’ve searched already?
Yes. You need to show your effort, otherwise your question will be considered lazy. This is specially true regarding technical issues in volunteer forums.
The seminal essay “How To Ask Questions the Smart Way” explains these and other finer points.
While I agree that the search engine has gone to shit, the problem I have with people who ask really simple questions is that they haven’t done the bare minimum to ask for help.
Simple questions have fairly popular answers and even an enshittified Google search will return the correct result within their fucking AI.
If you have a simple question and the answers seem confusing, tell us why the answers are confusing. Don’t just ask the question.
Being able to Google your question is an important skill, but so is asking a question in a forum. Since forum posts are at their very nature asynchronous, being able to do your own searches shows those who are trying to help you that you have the skills to read their responses and extrapolate to your situation and then take the appropriate action.
I provide a lot of free support on various Linux and developer forums. The sheer number of people who want me to hold their hand is too high.
There is no bare minimum to ask for help.
There is a bare minimum to responding to someone asking for help, though: Being willing to provide some. Replying to tell them they haven’t earned the help yet is just being an asshole for the sake of feeling self-satisfaction, and it’s actively making the Internet a worse place.
Don’t do that shit. They don’t need to know your feelings on the issue, and neither do the rest of us. Nobody asked about them.
Yes, it also leads to people like me feeling like they need to go down a rabbit hole for 5 hours before they’re “allowed” to ask. Then, upon finally asking, they come to find out the answer was quick and simple and they could have saved many hours.
This is such a problem for me. Hot damn do I envy people who don’t let the fear of seeming stupid keep them from just asking the damn question.
Ignorance is bliss?
The issue with that is trolls who either 1. ask for source when something is an easy to find fact of life (i.e. it doesn’t need a scientific paper / article or whatever to prove). To later try to convince / discredit you that your link does not show what you claim (when it does). This one is to waste the other person’s time and nothing else, and is really popular by kremlin bots 2. launch an outlandish claim with no source, you counter it and then you are asked by OP to provide your source, then back to 1. for the rest of the bullshit that they do.
Ultimately it doesn’t matter much when you reply to 2 - 3 people like that, but posting more often, it does simply waste your time.
This is still better than the opposite tactic of sending your opponent to google it and when they don’t find anything saying that it’s because they are not trying hard enough.
Source: google it
I dont think I’ve hardly ever seen someone asking for sources on obvious truths or pretend a source is lying. They just say Nuh uh or Cuss out
I have, however, seen a LOT of people claim shit that isn’t true at all and try to pass it off as basic fact, and
I’ve seen even more people post sources that don’t actually say what they’re trying to prove.
And i dont think this is really the point of the Google it conversation
Not sure if everyone knows this, but: if you don’t want to answer the question—you don’t have to post a reply! Crazy idea, I know.
I don’t actually own this, but I saw it used once 10 years by my fathers aunts best friend. I guess it would work for what you need it for.
Ah come now my dear sir/madam/xir, who can’t resist a bit of trolling here and a google-it there.
what if i want to answer the question but i have none of the relevant knowledge and also don’t really understand the question itself?
ChatGPT, while it deserves almost all the hate it gets, is actually pretty good for that use case.
ChatGPT just told me to “google it” :D
lol … ChatGPT suggests you ask ChatGPT … then the two ChatGPT start conversing with one another and you in a three way conversation … a few minutes go by and they decide to log you off
Just Google it.
I disagree. Questions that can be easily looked up using a search engine are actually adding to the noise.
It’s also just plain disrespectful to expect people to look stuff up for you because you just couldn’t be bothered to type your question into a search engine yourself and perhaps look further than the first few results.
For the last decade, the vast majority of helpful results for obscure things has been reddit posts of users asking the exact same question. Usually the person answering knows some context that the person asking isn’t aware of needing to include in their question, which is why they couldn’t find it on their own. Heck, a lot of the time I was missing the same piece of information!
Without someone answering the ‘easy’ question, there wouldn’t have been any results that were clear answers to those questions.
I think we’re not talking about the same kind of questions here. Questions about “obscure things” someone “couldn’t find [the answer to] on their own” are almost by definition those that cannot be easily looked up using a search engine.
I’m talking about questions like “When is Easter in 2025?”, “What does the W in George W. Bush stand for?”, “Where will the next Tailor Swift concert take place?”, “Who is the oldest member of The Beatles?”.
Those are different from questions like “Can you recommend a children’s book about bears for a 4 year old?”, “Which smartphone should I buy as an environment-conscious person?”, “My car is making some kind of scratchy noise. What could be the cause?”.
When asking about the Beatles, are they asking about those still living or all of the founding members? Sice many bands have changed members over time, could they be asking about the time in the band or their age in years?
Suse, this was easy for the Beatles since they had a single lineup and are popular enough that all of that is easy to find. But it is a good example of a simple question that could be asking different things based on context and even if they get an answer it isn’t necessarily what they are looking for, but they didn’t know how to ask. Follow up questions are possible when interacting with others who may point out missing context, but not for search engines.
Also, kind of funny that you are an instance with ‘discuss’ in the name and you are opposed to discussion about easy to search things.
When asking about the Beatles, are they asking about those still living or all of the founding members? Sice many bands have changed members over time, could they be asking about the time in the band or their age in years?
Either way it would be easy too look up. The person asking would be aware of what they actually want to know after all.
you are opposed to discussion about easy to search things.
No, I’m saying questions with definite answers that are easy to look up are unnecessary noise. On the contrary, those are exactly the kind of questions that do not invite discussion. I’m all for people discussing anything they like. But if you’re just wondering how many ancient world wonders there are, maybe have a look at the Wikipedia article first.
I’m all for people discussing anything they like. But if you’re just wondering how many ancient world wonders there are, maybe have a look at the Wikipedia article first.
El oh el
I know right? People conversing about their problems?! The nerve!!! This is MY space, not theirs. People should only be allowed to post what I approve!!! and I do NOT approve oc asking for help, those fucking betacucks. let me scroll linux memes in peace
Then don’t answer and move on. Most of the time I see someone say “JuSt GoOgLe It” they don’t understand the question.
Stack overflow is garbage because questions were answered a long time ago and those answers have become irrelevant over time.
There’s also no reason to be toxic.
That’s exactly what I do. I’m also not saying people should actually comment “JuSt GoOgLe It” or be otherwise toxic. Just that unnecessary questions exist that add more to the noise than to the signal.
The amount of times I’ve googled a problem, and the first result is a forum post of someone just being told to google it then locking the thread is way too high.
These ones plus “this is a duplicate of <link to question that is only kinda related and doesn’t address the specific problem being asked in the newer question>”.
Fuck busy body moderators. The people you “have power” over can see how stupid and incompetent you are and being able to shut down forum conversations about it doesn’t hide it, it just means people know not to bother saying it where you’re looking.
I have started getting pissed at people who snap at someone “Don’t necro this post” (Or any of the numerous other things they say), on information that is well outdated that could fucking seriously use an updated answer.
End rant…I’d prefer not, though…I want to keep this rant going.
There’s a few things I hate people for regardless of context and one of those is lmgtfy links
I’ve never had issues with looking anything up. By downranking Reddit and using a search engine with a good indexer that downranks bullshit and generated websites, which mine is really good at, I haven’t noticed much change from how it was before.
But I agree with the second part. That’s something that never occured to me, and it makes sense. I was usually trying to answer questions I knew, and never had the urge to reply “just google it”, so it doesn’t change much for me, but it’s a really good point I never realized.
In the before times we had libraries of books that’d teach a person anything they wanted to learn. If a person had a question and the book didn’t answer there was someone there who didn’t know the answer but damn well knew how to find it. We never had to sort through piles of garbage content produced to waste our time for profit.
Even the early Internet was this way. Its slow degradation became a nose dive with broad adoption of Facebook and AI. I had to starting writing a line of code to search. And, that doesn’t even work anymore.
I used to be pretty good at googling stuff, but the last 1 or 2 years it just won’t work anymore. For instance, I had to charge a battery yesterday, and the power led started blinking when I put the battery in. I didn’t know if this meant either charging or faulty battery, so I googled it. Got pages of ads for this particular charger, but no answer. So google is just a big marketplace these days, and nothing more.
Just so you know, a dremel battery is charging when the power led blinks.
Did it not have a manual?
Just yesterday I was looking for similar info on a thermostat. Given only the brand name and knowledge that it was a thermostat, I found the product line, tech specs, and manuals. (I didn’t find the answer I needed, but that’s because it was “the button can be programmed to do different things by the control system”).
It does, but google decided I needed to buy a new one, not download the manual.
Usually both of those options are on the same page. If you have one, you have both, or at least a lead on their support site.
What’s your search engine of choice?
SearxNG To quote old Ben, “This is the weapon of a Jedi Knight. Not as clumsy or random as a blaster; an elegant weapon for a more civilized age.”
I’m using Kagi, but as of right now I’m not sure if I can recommend it. The last year with it was amazing, but for the past few days I’ve been getting blocked searches from my VPN out of nowhere. That would be a dealbreaker for me, but I hope it was just a mistake and they will fix it. It’s the first time it has happened in the year or so I’ve been using it.
Apparently, they are also adding a bunch of AI features, but I only noticed it when I was looking up the feature page, and I haven’t noticed any of it in my feed before that - so I guess they don’t push it on users and it’s optional somewhere out of the way, so don’t let that discourage you. (Though, it would’ve discouraged me, if I saw that before I started using it. But as of now it doesn’t affect you unless you look for it, I guess)
Other than that, the search is awesome. But since I’m using it exclusively for like a year, I can’t really compare it with other engines, it’s possible that I’m just used to it.
I haven’t noticed any of it in my feed before that - so I guess they don’t push it on users and it’s optional somewhere out of the way
That’s a bold assumption.
Remember that most people don’t even know there is something called “rankings” or “indexer” in this context.
I’ve made posts and videos about fixing cars or other items where there were no answers available anywhere, where I also go into detail about root causes so that the problem doesn’t repeat itself.
My absolute favorite videos for car repairs were some shade tree mechanics who just recorded what they were doing and talking through the steps. No fancy lighting setups, no separate camera person. Just explaining and sharing knowledge for something that I couldn’t figure out by reading words because the written word was just ‘lightly hammer’ and they showed the angles and explained where the parts were frequently getting caught.
You are a hero.
Repair steps are one of the few tasks that I feel videos are better than words (and sometimes pictures). It definitely helps to see the motions they’re taking and a single capture of the location from walking up to the car (or other repairable object) all the way to looking at the part that needs fixing.
Do you mind elaborating on your search setup? I’d like to be able to avoid a ton of bullshit especially while working.
I just use Kagi, which seems to be pretty good at filtering bullshit by default, and have mabually downranked reddit and twitter, ot any other site I found and don’t like. But it’s been a long time since I used other search, so I can’t compare it much since I’m used to it. Never really had any problems with not finding what I need.
Just googlw it is unfortunate shorthand for “learn it by doing research and troubleshooting”, a skill sadly very scarce. I agree it’s toxic and unhelpful. Guiding people to be better at finding information on their own is the way.
Asking someone else a question is also doing research.
Can’t argue with that.
Never thought I would see anybody call having to scroll past some sponsored links and reddit results “hard”. Compared to what, farting? Honestly folks, after 2025 we’ll probably all have a different view of what’s easy and what’s hard.
It’s not hard. It’s that information from people has become more fact than a single persons opinion on a topic. Do you have any idea how many variables are involved in why my cucumbers are dying in my green house? How many links and articles I’ve read before just asking it to the community and finding the answer in literally the first person who replied?
Information, wisdom, knowledge are all empowered by a community, and trusting a search engine to populate those will eliminate the community aspect of information gathering. It’ll cause the watered down, lost in information practices that we have going on today.
Doing this, in 30 years no one will be able to grow cucumbers in their greenhouse becuase all the information you’ll have will be based off the same shitty technique and everyone’s attempt at that technique, and no one will talk about the nuanced variables.
The cucumbers is an example.
I too value the advice of people sharing their experience on reddit, but I also see way too many highly upvoted posts crediting Nikola Tesla with inventing everything but fire. Top google results are increasingly useless junk, but so are top social media results. Having grown up with physical encyclopedias I wouldn’t say information is “hard” to find.
Physical encyclopedias are just time capsules of knowledge, sometimes irrelevant. And pricy too. Having them and then saying information is easy to find is entitlement.
I see what you’re saying. Top up voted corporate social media posts and AI finding top results for search engines and query requests is exactly why people need to ask other people wtf is going on with anything. It’s confusing enough to try to parse through irrelevant information, maybe asking someone will narrow down what you need to know.
Fine I’ll just tell people to Duckduckgo it! /s
Jokes aside I agree with this message. Better to give at least a basic idea on where to find something, or just don’t be a pedantic cock and give me the damn link, your word is not good enough okay buddy, pal, friend.
I’ll just tell people to Duckduckgo it!
Duck it.
What I’d like to become the standard is:
If the question makes it super obvious the asker has zero clue what they’re asking or trying to do, lightly correct and steer them to beginner friendly resources.
If the question is competent but focusing the wrong direction or will lead to a bad habit, essentially, they know just enough to be dangerous but they’re about to be dangerous, more pointed and technical correction and steering them to either articles or better search terms to use.
If it’s a pointed question with the information to show they’ve done the normal information gathering and either need opinions that are beyond the theory or book standard information or they don’t answer the question, answer the question. Ideally also giving sources to back up your answers.
Bonus points if you can do the above without coming across as a dick. Unless they ask to ask. You can be a dick to those people.
Search engines are mega sucky these days, but Wikipedia has never been better. I find myself going straight to wiki any time I need a quick fact or basic info.
I can’t imagine just how much more lost we would be if we had an internet without Wikipedia…
What would we be using, some form of online Encarta? Ugh.
Wikipedia is an internet gem
I give them a few quid every month. Might be the only regular donation I’ve got going at the moment (was being the sole earner for 3 until recently so yeah, rebuilding slowly)
Hear hear! We’re all witnessing what can happen with something nice, if you nurture it and keep improving, slowly, instead of the new pattern of Embrace, Extend, Extinguish or insisting on extracting maximum value. Modern Wikipedia is often rich in content and fun to use. I love it :)
Also, fuck Google. I’ve been removing the word from my lexicon. I say, let me search (or research) that instead
deleted by creator
Duck you 🦆
can you ducking duck off you ducking ducker?
IRL i’ll say ‘online search’ or ‘internet search’ now, and no one ever asks me about that or tries to clarify with ‘google?’, so the message seems to be coming across just fine.
Same. I still choose to believe that not using Google as a verb makes a dent in the behemoth. Usually gets a curious reply like “what, like Bing?”
Even if you want to be snarky, at least do something like:
I [googled it](searchresult.com) for you.I understand the temptation for snark, but if you’re going to snark, I suggest that “here is how I googled it for you” is a better response, wherein you explain the terms you chose and how you selected the most pertinent result.
Definitely more work, but even if the OP is infuriating, there are people who will find the answer in the future, and who would benefit from the explanation of something that might be obvious to us but not them.
Alternatively
I googled it for you > Copy pasted answer in case the source disappearsI’m not kidding, one time I saw that and the first result was back to that thread where the only answer was to Google it.
