ID: Drawing of a duck billed platypus underwater, they’re wearing a rainbow coloured t shirt and a pink bum-bag, and saying: “Ally is not something you can self-identify as, it’s a title that you earn. Let your actions speak for themselves!”
Credit: Sophie Labelle
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Wow, this thread had me bringing out the ban hammer a lot!
Thank you so much for diving in to the cesspit, I knew there would be some push back, there always is, but I didn’t think it’d get this bad (and I have a lot of these people blocked already, so I can only imagine, because I’m not going to look, not today satan!). Sorry you have to spend your time dealing with the mess! 😩
Yeah and judging by the modlog, pretty arbitrary. I was expecting transphobia or similar, but the banned people were just annoyed by OPs “smugness” and then ban reasons are “you’re not the victim” or “playing victim when told he has to earn allyship”??? These are not real reasons no? Im not suggesting a power trip but are you OPs aunt in need of defending them or what.
There is no space on this instance or its communities for “allies” who think the tone of queer folks comics is the real issue that needs to be talked about
This sentiment is pretty much why the progressive movement is fucked.
The right leans hard into meme warfare, using whatever propaganda opportunities they can.
Meanwhile the left has endless debates about the purity of their efforts.
We’re so fucked.
No, it’s right. You can’t form an alliance with somebody without their consent. If you want to be someone’s ally, they’re allowed to disagree.
This isn’t about purity, but you tell yourself whatever you need to to avoid engaging in the mild discomfort of unlearning and challenging your privilege, existing bias, and the status quo, I guess… ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This is reinforcing their point though. The person you’re responding to almost certainly supports you unconditionally. But you’re at odds here because of a difference in experience/strife.
I recognize I have no horse in the race, but I do go out of my way to offer support. All I’m saying is your efforts are better spent fighting actual bigotry.
I recognize I have no horse in the race,
Then perhaps take the opportunity to sit down, shut up, and listen to those who do? Or are you convinced that your privilege makes you more informed than we are about our own situation and needs?
And you post things with titles such as ‘duck billed platypus’.
I got mine from the Emperor of Gay People in the mail just this Friday. I framed it and put it next to my n-word pass on the mantle.
Is that like a one time n-word pass or are you fully certified?
Certified, but I have to kiss Jesse Jackson’s ass every 3 years and maintain NAACP membership for recertification
it can be as simple as flying a rainbow flag
My wife and I are queer and have a pride flag on our house. One day a couple of kids came to our door while we were out of town. I was very worried because they were young and alone in the evening and we weren’t home. We answered them with the doorbell camera. They said they were queer and just wanted us to know that they’re happy to see pride flags in the area to know they’re not alone.
Hmm, I wonder what I managed to accomplish in the womb
Ah yes the famous title that floats over my head like in an MMO /s
Still, this is some weird gatekeeping. If I’m not an ally, I’m neutral, who cares
This kind of gatekeeping really pushes away potential allys. Probably not the best kind of rhetoric.
It only pushes away the “potential allies” who are unwilling to do anything to help queer people. Who aren’t allies.
Taking actions to be an Ally has risks for folks in some places. Where I am LBGTQA+ support is the norm and doesn’t really need to be spoken and when it is I’ve never heard anyone in over 10 years say a negative thing.
I have online though seen folks who try to speak up in Allyship of someone else get taken down. Subjected to purity tests by folks in an LGBTQA+ supporting community. It felt like the same bi erasure I’ve experienced and the same transphobia I’ve seen from parts of the LG community in the 2000s. It’s like saying someone isn’t gay if they haven’t come out. All it does is lessen the crew.
LGBTQA+ shouldnt be treated as a club with a rainbow dress code. It should be the future default standpoint of all of humanity.
So do I keep wearing my pin in support of my sister or do I just fuck off? I sick of constantly getting my cis white balls kicked in everything I try to do anything. The people I want to support keep kicking me for being part of the patriarchy, and the people on the other side keeping kicking me for being a sissy bleeding heart pansy. WHAT THE FUCK AM I SUPPOSED TO DO!
The point is - if it’s for your sister… Ask your sister.
The feeling of “What am I supposed to do?” is totally natural, and something you have in common with a lot of queer people. The simple answer is “Your best”.
You’re right, it sucks being told how you can and can’t identify. The purpose of the post seems to be to motivate allies to take more action to help. But I agree that the phrasing is problematic.
Just keep being supportive of LGBT people in real life and ignore random memes online. I consider wearing a pin as an action that qualifies as an ally. It’s looking like LGBT people might need more help than just a pin with the way governments are heading.
Also if you are dealing with people online, consider that they may be bots or trolls who may not even be LGBT purposely attempting to cause division.
If the pin helps your sister, then you’ve earned the title of ally. Does it?
“I have a marginalised sister who I want to support, but a generalised post on the internet that I took as a personal attack (if the shoe fits ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ) hurt my feelings by not prioritising them above her oppression and the oppression of those like her, and didn’t make sure to centre me and praise me for my minimal empathy every step of the way, so now I’m not gonna because! I’M tHe rEaL vIctiM hEre! sToP oPprEsSiNg mE!!!11” 🙄
You self identified allies just can’t fucking help but out yourselves, can you?
I have been active for decades in support of LGBT rights. Your commentary here is poisonous enough to bother me. This is not the way.
Your commentary here is poisonous enough to bother me
Then I guess your “allyship” is more about your ego than it is about the people you’re using as a debate tool and a trophy… ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You are just looking to instigate. You will be ashamed one day of the vomit you post now. I wont feed the trolls.
That person wants you to tell them what to do. They’re looking to you as a leader. Embrace the opportunity to make change by being a good leader who gives clear instructions.
I am not interested in leading anyone, and my life, and the lives of marginalised people in general aren’t a fucking educational opportunity. We are not obligated to invest endless time and energy, which we are already deprived of due to having to fight just to exist, to earn that right to exist from those more privileged than us.
If they genuinely want to be good allies, literally all they have to do is open a search engine and start looking through the endless information that already exists out there and start from there, instead of demanding it be spoon fed directly too them by the people directly impacted (and therefore fatigued), especially after they’ve shown zero initiative or interests in educating themselves.
especially after they’ve shown zero initiative or interests in educating themselves.
That’s literally what they’re trying to do right here and now and your spitting in their faces. Maybe don’t post memes about how to be an ally if you don’t want to actually help anyone be an ally, it’s more counterproductive to your cause than the apathetic allies you’re bemoaning.
What did they even say? I think they deleted their account or got perma banned from their instance because I can’t even find their account on their instance now.
They just asked what they could do to help be an ally, but it turns out the post OP is just a concern troll and doesn’t actually give a shit about allyship.
Okay, do you mind if drag tells them what to do instead?
Just keep wearing that pin, speak out against hate and maybe chill the fuck out?
No, no, don’t you see? They’re the real victim here!
Ok so do I wear the pin or not?
You wear the pin if it helps your sister. If it helps your sister, you’re an ally.
If that is the extent of your support, maybe don’t bother.
It’s not. Any further questions?
Divide and conquer is a strategy as old as time. Can’t fault you for trying.
Before I realized and came out as bi, I was in the GSA (gay-straight alliance) in high school as a “straight.” My state was voting to ban gay marriage at the time, and we campaigned against it. I got just as much if not more hate from people than the LGBT members. Maybe because they viewed them as a lost cause? It was usually adults yelling at a 17-year-old kid for being a “betrayer” and a “pervert lover” (I liked that one), just because I supported two consenting adults marrying regardless of gender. Staunch allies definitely earn the title.
During the Afghan/Iraq wars if you were against the war you were"un-American, “stand behind our troops or stand in front of them” I don’t see those people supporting veterans now that those wars are over. They’re a bunch of mooks.
It’s kinda crazy how supporting war isn’t seen as a betrayal of veterans.
It was crazy because we had military recruiters in our highschool every day. I have a lot of friends from back then that joined. I just didn’t want my friends to die for what amounted to a money grab.
Slightly unrelated rant.
I’m tried of these culture wars. It’s complete nonsense. I’m not particularly LGBT+ but it shouldn’t matter. This is about freedom for fucks sake! People just want to live and exercise their human rights! Anybody telling others they mustn’t exist their way is an enemy of humanity! The fact that people get denied jobs and even have their rights restricted, just because some asshole finds out the ID doesn’t match is fucking repulsive!
Recently had a chat with my aunt and she just “you can’t expect people to immediately accept changes”, shut the fuck up! It’s not a change! It’s a core value that’s been in our constitution for longer than any of us have been alive. But clearly, despite being raise on these values, I’m the only one who believes them. Like some fucking santa claus shit!
This attitude is why I generally only speak to my sister about trans stuff (she is trans); because even though I support the idea and want to learn more to be more supportive, a good chunk of the time I’ve been labeled a transphobe. It’s the one pattern I recognize with the community that irks me so much. The refusal to answer innocent questions about what shit is like for you, and assuming anyone who isn’t trans asking about trans stuff is a transphobe simply begging the question.
We will seemingly never earn the right to be allies so long as we are CIS.
Cis is a prefix, not an acronym, you don’t have to all caps it. And if you weren’t cis then you wouldn’t be an ally, you’d be part of the community; allies are cis by definition.
Try to understand that for most trans people, they encounter a shit ton of dishonest “questions” that are actually just ways for people to be transphobic . If 9 people punch you in the face after saying “knock knock,” you’d be telling the next person that says “knock knock” to fuck off, too.
There is also a non-zero chance that whatever you’re asking is a right wing talking point you’ve absorbed after it’s been laundered through various dog whistles. Which isn’t a personal flaw, right wing shit is prioritized by algorithms and media. Even trans people have to unlearn a lot of this shit. It’s even possible you just independently came up with similar phrasing or reasoning without realizing it had associations with right wing shit. But trans people just seeing your comment in isolation can’t know that.
Given the unprecedented existential threats to trans people going on right now in the US (likely where most of these people you’re talking to are from), maybe extend a little grace. On top of the general trauma of living as a scapegoat minority, many are losing or may soon lose health care and other rights. Expecting people to behave perfectly in the face of that is unrealistic.
I’m not saying don’t feel however you feel about it when someone blows up at you, just recognize the context of it.
I do also hate the dog whistle shit. You know how I end up learning what dog whistles exist? Because I say something some fucking neonazis co-opted without my knowledge and get assblasted for it because I tend not to hang around bigots to know their stupid lingo. 😠
Ignorant I may be; but the only hate I have is for hatemongers.
Ask drag as many questions as you like. Drag will answer in good faith, and if you say something that makes drag uncomfortable, drag will be specific and explain why drag is uncomfortable.
Most other trans people aren’t going to be patient with you, because you opened this conversation by assuming hostility from them. They’d rather answer the questions of someone who asks from a neutral or agreeable starting position. Drag will answer your questions anyway.
Oh, wow, so many questions! Is that the new tactic? Tell folks they can’t be free to identify how they feel now? Gee, I don’t see that going well for acceptance becoming common place but, whatta I know? Seems kinda on par with having been told, “… you don’t get to choose your gender, god does…”
How do we get or give these official “ally” titles to pass out? Do they need to be notarized or is there another way to make sure they are genuine? Is there a checklist or website available to ensure worthiness before certifying an ally? Is there a membership cost? Are all lgbtq+ folks allowed to certify, or only particular groups?
I have sooo many more but those seem important to start and avoid any penalties. …Oh shit, are there penalty fines??
Hand over your antifa membership card right now!
I pretty much never, ever post, but you’re a real piece of shit. You’re acting as if anyone who isn’t your idea of marginalized isn’t worthy of their own feelings and definitely not worthy of anyone else’s. You’re worse than the people you’re attacking in this thread and your words and actions will do nothing but move people who may be on the fence regarding their feelings about marginalized groups in a worse direction.
Or you’re a troll. Either way, huuuuge piece of shit.
Entering an alliance with someone requires their consent. You can’t just declare you’re allies with France, you have to go talk to a French diplomat first. If you don’t, then you’re free to help France, but France won’t protect you from invaders. If you declare that you’re allied with France without asking them, they might go tell the international community that you’re a liar. That would be a reasonable thing for France to do.
Fortunately, being an ally to queer people is much easier than being an ally of France. Drag is sure you can manage it if you present a strong enough ambassadorial case.
Okay, except lgbt people are not a state and don’t have any diplomats. But even nation states have detractors who don’t agree with the decisions made by the current head of state.
I think people are mad at this post because they don’t like that someone else should appoint themselves the arbiter of someone else’s morality or righteousness.
But there’s no “doing the right thing” people club. No one can tell anyone they aren’t an ally if that person is doing what they can against bigotry and discrimination.
Tbh, I just worry that someone who is judging people by arbitrary purity criteria is going to end up friendless or miss out on friends.
That said, don’t accept shitty friends. If someone isn’t living up to your code, then it’s acceptable to discount them as your friend, but I think it’s unacceptable to say that they’re a bigot or they’re discriminatory (unless they are).
Drag thinks you can call yourself an ally if you think your actions earned it. But if a queer person tells you you’re not and gives a reason, then it’s time to self-crit and really think carefully about why they said that. It means that they didn’t feel like you were helping them. You don’t get to say “nuh uh, I’m doing this for your own good”, that’s not a consensual relationship. Drag has seen that before. Cishet people saying they get to call themselves an ally even if every queer person they know hates them. For example, take J K Rowling. She thinks she’s an ally. She thinks she’s done more to help the queer community than almost anyone. This post is about people like her.
Oh yeah, because your support of marginalised people is exactly like our gender, or any other immutable characteristic we get oppressed and even murdered for, well done!!! We should have realised all along - it’s the privileged people who get to look at our oppression from the side line and decide whether to support our right to exist depending on how nice we were to them, who are the real victims here!!! (heavy fucking /s)
What’s next, you gonna come out with your own “blue lives matter” - “ally lives matter”??
Fucking pathetic, but hey, thanks for adding yet another example of exactly the kind of person this post is talking about.
You are not an ally to anyone but your own fragile little ego,
You get to choose if you’re an ally through your actions. If you already do good things to help queer people, then this post has nothing to do with you. The only reason for you to be worried by this post is if you don’t think you’ve done enough. Is that what’s going on here?
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