I’ve heard the legends of having to drive to literally everywhere (e.g. drive thru banks), but I have no clue how far apart things are.
I live in suburban London where you can get to a big supermarket in 10 minutes of walking, a train station in 20 minutes and convenience stores are everywhere. You can get anywhere with bus and train in a few hours.
Can someone help a clueless British lemmyposter know how far things are in the US?
EDIT
Here are my walking distances:
- To the nearest convenience store: 250m
- To the nearest chain supermarket: 350m
- To the bus stop: 310m
- To the nearest park: 400m
- To the nearest big supermarket: 1.3km
- To the nearest library: 1.2km
- To the nearest train station: 1km
Straight-line distance to Big Ben: 16km
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Rural southern Georgia: 300m to the only gas station/convenience store in town. 10km to the nearest real supermarket, medical center, pharmacy, tiny library, dentist, and a couple of restaurants. 30km to the nearest big box store (Walmart). 100km to the nearest small regional airport. 120km to train station.
Off topic, but after I moved halfway across the US, I wondered what that same distance would be driving across Europe.
I moved from the NW corner of Washington state to about the middle of Iowa, roughly 2000 miles or 3200 Km (roughly, I said)
Its looks to be the same as going from Lisbon to roughly halfway in between Berlin and Warsaw, using google maps to follow roadways.
I can’t imagine all of the different cultures you would see traveling most of the way through Europe, and most of what I saw on my trip through the States was empty dead grass fields, farmland, a couple dead deer, and a ton of truckers.
At my parents’ place, it’s about 9 miles (~14km) to the nearest gas station/convenience store, which has super limited hours, or roughly a 15 minute drive. It’s about 14 miles (~23km) to the nearest grocery store, or about a 20 minute drive.
I live in the suburbs of a major city, so the nearest stores from me are around a mile (1.6km) away. The nearest big supermarket is like 2 miles (3.2km) away.
Depends.
If you live in a very rural area it can be more than an hour by car to some of these things, 50 miles or more, other items may not exist at all like public transportation. Inter-city public transportation is all but imposable for smaller locations, difficult and lengthy the greater the distance and size differential in locations.
I used to live in a metro area. Everything was within 10 minutes walk except medical care, but walking to the subway would get you to top tier medical facilities in about 15-20 minutes. Getting to nearby “bedroom” communities was also pretty easy thanks to a commuter rail.
I now live in a suburban area that has OK bus service but it’s not very convenient to where I live at all. Everything is within a 10 minute drive, and unfortunately a car is necessary due to the lack of sidewalks in many places. It does have light rail to a major metro area, about two hour’s ride, and then you can access the metro area major transportation network to all nearby areas and further away. Probably about as good as it gets in the US.
Nearest store of any kind - 1 mile
Full serve store - same
Library - .75 mile
Bus stop - 1.2 miles
Small park - .5 miles
Large park - 3 miles
Access to light rail - 4 miles
Knock off this “public transportation is only for big cities” propaganda bullshit. The US literally had a comprehensive rail network. The town of 1000 I used to live in had a train that connected to anywhere in the nation in the 1930s.
I really don’t know what you’re on about. I stated what we have today. Period. My comment has nothing to do with “propaganda” or rail history in the US. Did you even reply to the right comment?
Did you read your comment?
Inter-city public transportation is all but imposable for smaller locations
You took that out of context.
That was intended to mean, as I said, in a modern context. As in you cannot get there via public transportation today. This conversation has nothing to do implementing transportation, this has to do with what we have and how accessible smaller towns are.
So were you looking to be angry or something?
To piggy back off this comment, I’m surprised the streetcars in Kenosha, WI don’t get brought up much for what we could have:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetcars_in_Kenosha,_Wisconsin
It began in June 2000. It was done by doing the municipal equivalent of looking for deals on Craigslist; they bought old cars from larger cities and did a little conversion to get the track gauge right.
Can every small town do this? As it stands, probably not. It depends on larger cities having hand-me-down trolleys, and there just aren’t enough cities doing that for it to work on a widespread basis. But I think it does show that there’s a path to doing this in North American small cities if larger cities can get their shit together.
I can probably offer some insight, as my in-laws live in Wimbledon, some of my family live both near and far from DC/Baltimore, and I live in the Netherlands.
My London experience is on par to yours. Everything is walking distance and the things that aren’t are accessible by public transit fairly easily.
The Netherlands imo is even better planned and connected than the UK. The convenience store is around the corner from my townhouse. Two large chain supermarkets are just a 3 or 7 minute walk depending on which is preferred (the 7-min one is pricier but better selection) and there are more a few more minutes walking. The bus stop is 3 min away, train is a 10 minute walk. Parks and bike lanes all around.
DC is also very walkable and similar to London. Bike lanes. Everything is accessible and public transit is pretty good. Lots of convenience stores, small grocers, and even some larger chains. A few metro lines even go far out to the suburbs. I like the building height limit, which makes the city feel more open. Rock Creek Park is massive and you feel like you’re in the forest.
Once you get to the suburbs there may be a convenience store a 10-20 minute walk away, or a grocer if you’re lucky, but generally this is when you’ll be needing a car, as public transit becomes scant. Many Americans are walking averse; my husband and I are the odd couple that parks at the back of the lot when visiting Costco instead of spending half an hour hoping to get a spot by the doors. Most stores will be in plazas or strip malls.
My father lives out in the country. He loves having acres and acres of no one around. His house is an island. There’s one 7-11 in his tiny village. He’s lucky it’s a 5 minute walk from his house. If I want to get groceries when visiting, the nearest store is 8 miles away (a leisurely 4 hour walk; 10 minute drive). Oftentimes there are no sidewalks; mostly long stretches of road with big shoulders. I don’t think there’s public transit there; I’ve never seen a bus. There are farms everywhere so parks need to be driven to, however, they are pretty big with lots of room for activities.
It’s likely not too different from comparing London to Dartmoor. Much of it depends on where you are (population density). Some areas have great public transit and access to services, others don’t.
Hard disagree on DC. The public transit is bad, the train only goes a few places, and the majority of the city is not easily walkable, only the touristy parts. I’d also call it a depressing shithole, but that borders on opinion.
Depends on the part of dc- big chunks of it have $5 million homes for miles. Every major city has slummy areas, but dc for the most part is expensive as shit and gentrified combined with endless government buildings. Also has one of the best museums in the world with over a dozen massive buildings, all free.
You might be thinking of Baltimore :P
WMATA busses need serious work and there aren’t enough bike lanes for last mile connectivity, but by US standards it’s about as good as it gets outside of NYC.
The busses are the main differentiation between European and US cities in my experience. Only Seattle and SF get close to running a decent bus service.
Fair enough, not everyone will have the same experience. The busses can suck; at least the metro is tidy and runs well. My cousin in Georgetown doesn’t have a car, and he manages to travel to and access everything he needs, including going out to Potomac or Silver Spring. Going east/west is tricker, but on the flip side DC is rather small for a major city, and they’re building the purple line. Public bikes and scooters are also everywhere which is nice for visitors. Additional bike lanes and connectivity is needed for sure.
Compare to Baltimore, where they have the one metro line, which is broken half the time.
I live in the suburbs of a decently sized but not super large city in WI.
- Convenience store: 120 m
- Chain supermarket: 2.6 km
- Bus stop: 5 m
- Park: 450 m
- Big supermarket: 3.1km
- Library: 1.5 km
- Train station: 58.9 km :(
I live in a suburb in the U.S.
- To the nearest convenience store: 322m
- To the nearest chain supermarket: 2.4km
- To the bus stop: 2.6km
- To the nearest park: 5.5km
- To the nearest big supermarket: 6.1km
- To the nearest library: 7.7km
- To the nearest train station: N/A
Notes:
- The “convenience store” in my example is a gas station, technically you can buy lottery tickets, candy, cigarettes, beer, and a few things like that - but very limited inventory, it’s mostly for people buying gas. It’s also very unusual to have a gas station like this located basically in a suburban area, most places you would have to go much further to find one.
- no sidewalks or safe passage, you walk on a dangerous road with ditches on either side to get to the convenience store.
- the only public transit is a bus, it is used only by poor people, and it doesn’t cover the west half of the city (for example I was unable to use public transit to go to school)
I have run to the park before despite being far away, but I think most people would (rightfully) think I was suicidal for doing so. A lot of the way to the park requires walking on dangerous streets where people drive fast around blind curves and where there is little to no shoulders to squeeze by if there are cars, most of the way has no sidewalks, and I have to cross busy roads where drivers are going 80+kmh.
Owning a car here is considered a part of being an adult, people without a car are seen as childish or immature, and usually suspected of being drunks who have lost their license due to DUIs or felons who cannot have a driving license and aren’t allowed to leave the state. It is assumed everyone drives everywhere, alternatives are unthinkable to most people here.
Those distances would be perfect for a bicycle if you had save bicycle lanes
Well, those distances use a nearby highway, and there are no bike lanes anywhere (let alone sidewalks). As mentioned earlier, being suicidal means I did use a bicycle anyway, and after a couple years I had a brain injury, was hit by cars twice and ended up with permanent injuries. So… yeah, I don’t recommend cycling (if you feel like being alive and able-bodied, anyway).
What is also not mentioned is that the nearest supermarket is a shitty Walmart, the nearest park is very small and not really worth going to, and the bus is not a practical form of public transit here.
I have to drive 20 - 30 minutes to actually get to stores, parks, or other places I would actually go to. I think that’s pretty good relative to most people, I live in a centralized location and most places are equidistant. I used to live in a nearby more rural town and I had to drive 45 - 60 minutes to get most places, and that was much worse.
(That’s why I said if you had safe bicycle lanes. But are there no local politicians who’d be willing to do anything about that? A gravel road isn’t that expensive and would suffice.)
The county mayor describes himself as a Rothbardian, and the government here sometimes feels openly hostile to people, but especially to bicyclists. I received a lot of harassment for cycling, it is not supported culturally, and is even viewed as though I am a political enemy of the people. Huge, lifted emotional-support trucks are pretty common here.
Damn
Rothbard opposed egalitarianism and the civil rights movement, and blamed women’s voting and activism for the growth of the welfare state.[24][25][10][11] He promoted historical revisionism and befriended the Holocaust denier Harry Elmer Barnes.[26][27][28] Later in his career, Rothbard advocated a libertarian alliance with paleoconservatism (which he called paleolibertarianism), favoring right-wing populism and describing David Duke and Joseph McCarthy as models for political strategy.[29][30][24][31] In the 2010s, he received renewed attention as an influence on the alt-right.[32][10][33][34]
Oh and bicycling also wasn’t popular in Europe when my grandfather was young (50s/60s), when you were cycling people thought you were too poor to buy a motorcycle. But mindsets can change, now bicycling is hugely popular both for moving around (especially in cities) and for sports.
yeah, during COVID the mayor became famous for running attack ads against the health department, and as a result of his leadership the state legislature stripped the health department of their ability to implement any policies or directives
I’ll just use the same criteria you gave as an example.
- To the nearest convenience store: 1.5mi (2.6km)
- To the nearest chain supermarket: 1.8mi (2.9km)
- To the bus stop: 0.5mi (800m)
- To the nearest park: 0.3mi (480m) - I’m lucky to have several parks in my neighborhood
- To the nearest big supermarket: 2.1mi (3.4km)
- To the nearest library: 2.2mi (3.5km)
- To the nearest train station: 5.1mi (8.2km)
nearly 3km to convenience store or supermarket… in a city? i get the other comments with similar numbers but they said they’re in the middle of nowhere, in the suburbs and such.
also i live in such a big city that 300k feels like a small neighborhood.
I was going to call it a “small” city but Google told me that 300k is mid-size so I went with that ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The city is ~350 sq km and our tiny downtown area is probably about 1 sq km, so the entire city is kinda like a suburb. Heck, I’m from Houston which is known for its urban sprawl, and yet there’s lower population density where I live now.
I live in suburban Kansas City and these are the distances to the things you mentioned -
- Convenience store - 1.2 miles (1.9km)
- Chain supermarket - 2.8 miles (4.5km)
- Bus stop - 1.2 miles (1.9km)
- Park - .4 miles (650m)
- Big supermarket - 5.5 miles (8.8km)
- Library - 1.9 miles (3km)
- Train station - 7.4 miles (11km) (trains are not really a viable transport option here)
- Airport - 29.1 miles (46.8km)
The closest publicly accessible business to me is a fast food restaurant about a mile away.
Basically if I need anything, it’s a 30 minute walk one way to get there. It just isn’t really viable as a regular thing to spend an hour walking to get to/from a convenience store, or 2 hours for a grocery store. Instead, I spend 10-20 minutes in my car for those errands, and save the extra time for walking my dog (since he couldn’t go into any of the places mentioned above either, so his walks would have to be in addition anyway.)
OP dweller here!
I will add that indeed these suburbs are designed for driving, even if there are good sidewalks and parks everywhere. Where I am at, everything feels like a 5 to 15 minute drive away. Banks, pharmacies and lots of restaurants have drive-thrus. Major intersections are typically one mile apart on a squared grid. The major stroads are often lined with big stores and restaurants with giant parking lots, while the interior parts of those grid blocks are housing colonies, schools and parks. Different suburbs are connected to each other and the city with arterial highways. And compared to Europe, fuel is very cheap. Cartopia.
To be fair, you live in a large city. Cities here in the states also have many points of interest close by. In the suburbs, places are more spread out, same as they would be in the UK. It’s all about location.
I live in a town of 220,000 in the UK.
I’m a 5 minute walk from a small supermarket.
10 mins from a corner shop.
5 minute drive from a huge supermarket.
10 minute walk from a doctors’ surgery.
20 minute walk from a dentist’s.
20 minute walk from an opticians.
5 minute walk from a park.
15 minutes walk from primary and 10 minutes walk from a secondary school.
But we don’t really do suburbs in quite the same way, and they’re much more walkable than the pictures I’ve seen of US suburbia.
Far.
Houston tx, sprawling urban hell. in a swamp. I’ll only give a few
My most common doctors office: 16miles, 26 km My best friend: 30 miles, 50 km Bus stop: 2.5 km Grocery store: 6 miles, 10 km
Keep in mind this is a major metropolitan city with 4 million people, fairly hefty public transport, and is surrounded by other smaller cities. From center it’s like 15-17 miles to the next edge. There’s a smaller city inside of Houston called Bellaire lol.
Let’s just say I have an office job and still manage to drive 35,000 miles a year.
Fun fact: the circumference of the earth is 24,000 miles!
I used to work as a service technician so I’d also have to travel more than the circumference of the earth every year. I feel your pain lol
I want to add that in many places in the US it is not just the distance, but the danger and outright discouragement of walking somewhere. For example, I contemplated using a train to get to Lego Land in California from Oceanside, California. After getting off of the train I would have to walk 1.3 miles, which is only a minor inconvenience. However, after reviewing the walking route google has this qualifier: “Use caution - may involve errors or sections not suited for walking”. This prompted me to review the walk using street view and I came to the conclusion that there was not a safe route.
This is just one example of something that I think should specifically be available. There are many places where walking is encouraged and convenient, but it is by no means universal.
Nashville TN suburbs and here are my walking distances:
To the nearest convenience store: 6km To the nearest chain supermarket: 11km To the bus stop: 6km To the nearest park: 4.1km To the nearest big supermarket: 12km To the nearest library: 13km To the nearest train station: 25kmBut what’s your straight line distance to the Parthenon?
