Will it be effective?
Spoiler
No, it was not very effective.
EDIT: The banning event continues. Please consult the modlog to observe.
https://lemmy.world/modlog?page=1&modId=7121342
If you scroll down to about a day ago, you might be able to observe an emerging behavior from this mod.
EDIT 2: The mod in question moderates a total of 108 Lemmy communities. How deep does this conspiracy run? Is this mod a lost Redditor? More to come!
EDIT 3: The mod has now removed my comment all together, one might assume because it was still receiving upvotes in the 2 hours following my ban. Are there similarities here to Watergate? You be the judge!
EDIT 4: The mod in question has now been removed as a mod of the [email protected] community, as a result of their abuse of power.
https://lemmy.world/post/19731457
This was their response:
EDIT 5: This will be my final update, since as far as I see it, the issue this thread focuses on has been resolved. To quote Beaver herself in a very ironic comment she made directed towards someone else:
Clearly this was all just a case of…
meatsplained lmao
I unironically love the terms “meatsplained” and especially “carnist.”
On my next date I’ma say: “I’m a Carnist… RAWR” and then click my teeth. Clear test for taking or leaving.
Corpse munched is a good one. Blood mouth is another. I’ve heard something about cadaver as well, maybe cadaver eater? Can’t remember.
Seriously how fucking old are you? Does that ever work? It’s just so ridiculously childish and funny.
Carnist Bloodmouth sounds like an Ork name.
They always make me laugh because it reminds me of a kid on a playground not really knowing how to throw curse words so comeing up with something like, “poopie buttface!”
They so damned silly.
You’re right, I’m honestly embarassed.
Sorry that wasn’t directed at you. The “you” in my rhetorical question was the silly vegan extremists, not you. That was not clear. Go ahead and claim the word and make dinosaur nodes. It makes their silliness even funnier and takes away all their power.
(edit: this was a stupid thing to say.)
Correction: it was silly, and so I loved it 😂 (Maybe I misunderstood, I just wanted to advocate for it being okay to be silly:-)
Buffy or Firefly?
You’d be surprised how often that happens when people find out you don’t eat meat.
It’s, like, a lot.
oh, good point… OK I won’t do it, thanks for the tip!
It’s also hilarious how they thought they could just ban an instance admin, and when it didn’t work call it abuse.
If you consult the modlog, you can see a point during the hubris at which the mod in question was removed as a mod from the community. It is suspicious, and might suggest they were a mod deemed to be spreading misinformation.
Also they made a post which was being openly hostile to Lemmy.world’s mods, I mean what the fuck?
Yeah that mod was a real piece of work, it’s probably for the best that one of the other mods removed her and her alts from the community, and also is in the process of reversing their malicious actions.
I wondered why I hadn’t seen all this drama, but then I remembered I blocked all the vegan communities right after I joined Lemmy, along with all the trans and gay stuff, and the tankie instances.
I don’t want to see their shit and chances are they don’t want to see mine.
You don;t need to announce your shit out loud, big man.
I got banned for saying I didn’t think the meme was funny.
I legitimately do not care about that, but I do care deeply about how funny Beaver’s tantrum is, so I hope she keeps it up.
It’s funny that she thinks she’s accomplishing anything here but all that’s happening is that she’s eroding her own credibility, especially with those angry memes targeting people who aren’t Vegans and her beef with the Lemmy.world admins.
She’s eroding the credibility of the community she champions as well.
This isn’t the first time a very loud minority ruined things for the rest of their collective.
That’s very true, her behavior is indeed quite harmful towards the community she claims to support and erodes the credibility of their movement. Even though the thing about crazy vegans is largely a stereotype and all vegans are not like that, she is perpetuating that stereotype by her own behavior.
beaver is hilarious
The heck is going on?
Dunno. Trouble at the mill.
The users at lemmy.world basically already drove the mods in that community to suggest vegan communities on other instances to basically not have to put up with the rest of lemmy.world. It’s a dead community walking and the whole ordeal convinced me to block .world. I’ve seen less content, but damn has my experience on Lemmy gotten a whole lot better.
Wow, blocking LW is a bold move.
Interesting experience, your feed must indeed be much quieter
You’ll probably never see this, but I applaud you. Isn’t that the whole point of the fediverse? You can control who and what you see, and if you ever change your mind you can easily undo it. (And I get it, everybody needs a safe space sometimes.)
I wondered that myself, does blocking the instance also block comments?
It does not
My client does, but I have the option to click through if I think it’s worth it. Connect is the client.
Justified ban imo. You weren’t there to discuss veganism as a vegan, you were there for drama. It’s not spam when they make a lot of posts to their own community. Unless the content is hateful, the correct response is to block.
It’s not spam when they make a lot of posts to their own community.
I disagree. I see this often from lemmynsfw or various meme communities where some users tend to just dump 5-10 or even more threads. Neither Lemmy nor mbin really uses algorithms to prevent communities from showing up more than once, so you’ll always get the full load of those submissions spammed into your feed.
And no, blocking the entire community is not a valid solution when you do not inherently disagree with it.
I was never there, I was merely passing through All.
The OP literally shows a screenshot of your comment
What I mean to say is I didn’t enjoy a stay. My comment was made in a manner I would have made in any other community that popped up on All, that was serving up terrible meme after terrible meme. I wasn’t there to do anything.
If you were never a member of the community, then you’ve lost nothing from being banned, and the mod was right to decide that your comment wasn’t a good faith contribution from a member of the community.
Increasingly I believe communities should be able to hide from All. I step into places without realizing it too. They want an echo bunker, not a public sidewalk
To expand:
c/veganism isn’t actually a place to discuss the merits or news about vegan topics, or recipes.
It’s a place for vegans, and only vegans, to share likeminded opinions on their world view. This is not unique to this community.
Being a non vegan, and sharing a non vegan opinion there is not what they want. They find it offensive, and nearly bannable in general.
Ultimately, that’s ok, it’s their community.
The problem comes in when their posts land on All, where anyone sees it and feels invited to read and comment and vote. (Which I believe they are). So a mechanism to keep them off All would be useful to discourage people “walking by”
deleted by creator
Well put.
If outsider opinions are nearly always considered “bad faith”, the situation is a systemic issue with the visibility of the group.
Increasingly I believe communities should be able to hide from All.
Definitely
And I would say with such a rule, places shouldn’t have a rule 5 style rule AND be found on All. It should be either or. If you expose yourself to the public (to expand traffic), you.have to be thick skinned enough to handle public banter, which will not align with the community core.
Oh man, I am so happy I blocked that community months ago because I just have no interest in it or their diet.
I’m interested and I’m cutting down on animal sourced food, but they are aggressive, ignorant and overall annoying, so I blocked them some days ago. I’m not sure what their goal is. Gatekeeping veganism so that nobody considers it?
I’m not sure if you saw the recent community update, but things have died down at /c/vegan. Up to you, but posts will probably be leaning more informative and less antagonistic now that the situation has been resolved.
I haven’t seen it, but now I’m curious. Thanks
There are plenty of other spaces where vegans can respond to “plants feel pain” and “but what about lions” a million times a day, but that gets old pretty quick. The goal is to have a space where vegans can just interact amongst themselves, which necessarily requires some degree of gatekeeping
I understand what you’re saying, but I still think they could do without being such assholes about it. But I don’t have to interact with them and blocking is easy, so be it what it is.
Take the community private? Have Moral purity test for admission?
They thrive on the nonsense.
Then shouldn’t their space be private, so they don’t show up on all? They are begging for downvotes with how nasty their memes are. I understand their point, but i am sure that my understanding is much better reserved for non jerks.
How does one make a private lemmy community?
I don’t know, don’t have an instance. If it’s not just an option to still be federated but to opt out of having community posts being featured in all then maybe they should defederate with all of the other ones so they can post terrible things about the people they hate behind everyone else’s backs. Or they can just accept that when someone (even a mod) posts something antagonistic, it’s going to get down votes.
I seriously doubt that vegan posts showing off durian jerky, or even posts about how long cows could live if the meat industry didn’t slaughter them at peak profit efficiency, would be downvoted that much.
It’s amazing to watch progressives eat themselves in real time on a small scale.
EDIT 2: The mod in question moderates a total of 108 Lemmy communities. How deep does this conspiracy run? Is this mod a lost Redditor? More to come!
What was the name of that mod on reddit with 5k communities? I remember they were very well known, but it’s been a long time since having an account there.
It sounds crazy to hear someone mods 5k communities or 108 until you put eyes on them and realize most are dead, functionally dead, or memes. I modded 100+ subreddits on reddit when I was there, the drop in population after about the fifth was massive. After about 15 or so we were at truly inconsequential populations.
I do wonder however if it suggests things about a person, that they moderate that many communities. For instance, is it indicative of power seeking behavior?
I do not recall, but they must have received a very large paycheck each month!
IIRC it was more that they paid to be a mod. Someone had money to burn.
Could have been any of a few dozen.
That being said, there were a couple that were automod only mods. They’d get added to help set up and maintain automod, and never do anything else.
They’re not worth mentioning
Removed by mod
Mods 108 communities?
What we have here, sir and/or madam, is a Reddit mod. Excessive modding, a smell you can’t quite place, same techniques.
Gotta say: I was hoping we wouldn’t be followed by that type.
Pretty sure the Reddit mods were the biggest group of complainers against Reddits API changes, since they used third party apps in order to mod.
So it stands to reason a ginormous group of them switched to Lemmy and had plenty of free time to mod there as well.
It is inevitable, all lemmy instances will eventually be taken over by supermods that leverage their power to harass.
This vegan fiasco isn’t even the first time but I guarantee you the admins will leave them to powermod the remaining 107 as they see fit.
I guarantee you the admins will leave them to powermod the remaining 107 as they see fit.
Well, in this case the person in question couldn’t handle the fallout of their actions, and actually deleted their whole account.
Powermods like that don’t usually have only one account, and since they can mod themselves wherever they go, they usually do.
Nuking an account is just changing skins. The admins have the power to track and fix that, but they won’t.
Out of those, less then 10 are active
There are plenty of LW mods who mod a higher number of active communities
This has been a problem in Lemmy.ca for a while and I brought this up on [email protected] a while back:
Weird that criticism of Spam wouldn’t be acceptable in a vegan community!
That’s why you go with
!Incidentally, vegan Spam does exist both in the official Spam brand and in another brand called unMeat. As someone who really doesn’t like Spam, though, I’m unqualified to judge it.
Ah, this explains it! Saw I was banned from a community that I’d never posted in and evidently one of the mods is a wanker. Mystery solved :)
Am I missing something here? The vegan community is for vegans and people to ask questions about being vegan but is not for debating about any part of being vegan. That is their rule 5, which I see people break every day thinking it is ok to shit all over vegans there. If you don’t want to hear about vegans then block the community.
Consider the absurdity of that statement for a second.
How can a non-vegan ask a question about the lifestyle without engaging in a debate? How do you actively interact with information without debating it?
Debates don’t have to be antagonistic. When both parties are genuinely interested in questioning their own values and opinions they can be incredibly rewarding. I can understand a rule against antagonism, but disallowing debates inherently precludes honest questioning for people interested in growing their knowledge on the lifestyle.
Well it gets fatiguing to debate all the time, especially when some people are just trolling. But you can ask questions like what do you do for protein, B12, iron, etc. without debating. What are some staples that vegans eat, is it easy to make vegan food, how expensive is vegan food, what does a balanced vegan meal look like, what are some recipes, etc. Even asking can a person thrive on a vegan diet through all stages of life and you’ll probably be given an article or recommended to watch Game Changers.
I think they want to stop the antagonistic people, especially if all they want to do is say: it is only natural to eat meat/we evolved to eat meat, humans have dominion over animals, animals don’t have feelings, vegans are just being overemotional aka only logical people eat meat, it is ok to kill animals, killing animals in factory farms is ok because it is efficient, there isn’t enough land to grow vegan food for everyone, etc. Just shit that’s been responded to a million times and at this point seems bad faith since it’s been debunked before. Maybe they could have a sticky or wiki about these common arguments, idk I am not a mod.
It also matters what your tone is and that can be the difference between someone asking questions in good faith vs someone doing an antagonistic debate. But yeah at this point vegans do not need to question their values or opinions when it comes to their diet and lifestyle. You cannot convince a vegan it is ok to kill an animal for food but you might be able to convince a non-vegan it is wrong to kill an animal for food. Anyway that was just my thoughts on it.
The bans seem to be targeting downvotes without other contribution and cheeky comments such as the one in the OP
Rule 5 - This community is an echo bunker.
Many people see a post on All, never notice the community name, never read the sidebar, comment, and move on.
but is not for debating about any part of being vegan
If that’s the case, I want to know why perfectly innocuous comments are still removed. Seems like they operate on a whim.
Cause over the last few weeks, a bunch of debates over moderation drama have been full of people attacking vegans over the cat taurine debate. That drama is over and it reached a consensus resolution between the mods and admins. If they’ve made an executive judgement that the moderation drama is no longer relevant and baits carnists into breaking rule 5, then removing that debate is a valid application of rule 5.
Odd then that they’re using Rule 5 bans on people like me who never posted to their community
Depends on the context maybe? Idk I am not a mod. I’ve just seen comments about arguing for eating meat or saying something like “I’m going to eat 2 hamburgers now because of you” which are just annoying. I thought that was what this was about. I’ll leave my comments up for anyone else confused.
Thanks for adding context, I had no idea what rule 5 was.
This is their rule 5:
That rule seems very… Open to interpretation. Thanks for the info though.
This good advice. Everyone should block the community.
Well yeah if seeing vegan content upsets you enough to break their rule 5 then it is not a good community for you. And that is ok, honestly I get grief in real life about me trying to be vegan. Having place amongst other vegans and people not anti-vegan is nice. I also don’t know the context being the post so if there is something I’m missing feel free to tell me.
I got banned (rule 5) for downvoting a meme with misleading information. I’m not vegan, but I like the idea in general so I did enjoy seeing content. But things have gone off the rails recently.
This is entirely a mod issue. I’m vegan, and they need to be removed. They are ruining the image of the community so that people like OP start pushing for everyone to block it. If that isn’t ruining the prospects of our cause, then I don’t know what is.
I’d say not just recently. They’ve stepped it up after the big drama but been at it for a while.
Oh, but the “why do you hate veganism huh??” memes continue. Yeah, it’s definitely the veganism I can’t stand and not the fan club!
Hi there. Things escalated really out of control due to a rogue mod, but the situation has since been resolved, and things should be back to normal.
Ah I see. Not sure what is going on then.
Fwiw, anyone giving you grief irl is a jerk, unless you’re trying to convert them.
Away from the internet, I know a good handful of vegans that I gladly cook for. Not regions everyone hates y’all for living your beliefs.
And, just for full disclosure, I troll vegans online. That’s where most of the jerks that are vegan do their thing, not irl.
Me and you, if life threw us together, I’d make you my vegan chili, and we’d chill. But I’d still troll you online if you did the usual online stuff that gets vegans painted as crazy.
Which is my best effort at saying that that’s probably what you’re missing. Even people like me that have no problems with the precepts of veganism per se, we can get tired of the vegans that take things too far, and then the entire belief system gets colored by that brush. It creates a general fatigue, then a general stereotype, and that turns into assholes going to vegan spaces and being assholes (as opposed to only doing it in other spaces). That in turn makes militant vegans go on the warpath, and you get stuff like this drama lol
It’s a cycle of annoyance and limited perception. That cycle attracts the worst elements of humanity
Thank you for posting this. I know now that it was because of voting which is ehh not as bad as I thought. But yeah IRL my family and partner aren’t very supportive, I’ve been trying to ignore their comments. It’s just hard sometimes, like just last night my partner said they felt sorry for me during dinner because I didn’t have meat in my meal. I think that’s probably why some vegans become more aggressive online as well as the cycle going on. Idk I just like reading articles and seeing recipes. When I first went vegan my dad tried getting my whole family to convince me to eat meat again. I love my dad but that sucked. I also love my partner and they are otherwise fine, but they seem to have a problem and are adjusting to my new diet. I can understand the fatigue a vegan may go through, but banning people for voting isn’t exactly what I had in mind as their rule 5.
I’m sorry you went through that. It shapes us to have thicker skin, but it can also lead to bad outcomes depending on the friends and family involved.
Ed Winters talked about this on his channel recently. One of the biggest reasons people don’t go vegan, and one of the biggest reasons pushing people away from the movement is the social dimension: living with people and still holding them as on your side when they very clearly violate your moral code. It’s one of the hardest burdens of vegans, as I’m sure it can be for other minorities. Again, I’m not equating vegans to a minority group like LGBTQ or POC. The animals are the minority group. But when you have discrimination and sometimes segregation for specific groups in society, you can start to draw parallels.
Good luck with your vegan life from a fellow vegan 🤙
I’m sorry you’re running into such a degree of outright opposition. I never have understood that part, why someone that loves you would be persistent and nigh aggressive about something that’s essentially not their business.
Somebody wants to make a change, move towards something they feel is better, you support that, even if you need to draw your own boundaries about it.
That would be exhausting to deal with for anyone, the opposition.
I kinda get where the mod is at, the way you describe the fatigue. I think it’s better to step aside once your at that point, refresh yourself, maybe make a decision about that being a permanent break from trying to herd cats online or not. I’ve had to do the a few times over the years.
I personally believe this particular mod may be abusing the community’s rule 5, stretching it to suit their agenda. But I’ll leave the interpretation up to you.
Note that others are reporting being banned by simply downvoting community posts. Suggesting further overreach.
I forgot Lemmy lets you see who downvoted and upvoted. Idk why that is happening. I thought the brigade was about comments.
I’ll be one to admit my own comment was a bit cheeky. I had honestly never really noticed the [email protected] in my All feed until today, when this particular mod started posting a great deal of really poorly formatted memes. My cheeky comment was my only ever comment in the community.
I can’t speak to any actual brigading, as the community normally isn’t worth my time, which is very, very important to me.
Not just poorly formatted…they were full of insults.
Theory: the posts are bait so Beaver can feel powerful banning people.
I’m on a (admittedly slow), slide towards vegetarianism so I’m obviously pro-vegan…but apparently I got banned two days ago for rule 5
Users cannot vote in a community that has banned them. If the mod wants to restrict voting only to people who vote in good faith, that’s their prerogative. It’s probably a good idea, it prevents downvote spam from bots and the like. When you have a community that has very different values from /all, maybe kicking the /all people who vote against the sub’s values out is good. Voting is participation.
When some of those mods are perfectly fine with lgbtq persecution, and make it out like vegans have it worse, or dont care because they wouldn’t have to see it personally…
I’m just going to go ahead and consider it a toxic shithole. Worst part? Different mod, but they seem to be all over the same vegan communities, so none of them become worthwhile.
I personally don’t care if they ban me since I’ve blocked the communities anyway. Just unfortunate as I really enjoy seeing some of the recipes, as there are a decent number of them that are gluten free (which I need to be).
Which mod is queerphobic? Can I see the evidence?
Well, spoke to soon. I was banned for being ‘uncivil’ on the .world vegan community for calling out this same behavior, and hoping the community ended up somewhere other than on that particular instance.
Sooo… yeah I’m keeping the block. Maybe expanding to some mods there would be sensible.
Edit: There, all set now.
I’ll have to unblock, so I can do that later on, sure. Working so not paying much attention to Lemmy at the moment.
Edit: Sorry, my mistake, not a mod. An admin on the instance you recommend / link to in the side bar.
Shining transparency on these values and modding decisions to the attention of the fediverse then serves the greater good.
It does. You’ve opened the conversation about voting as participation and helped us reach some new ideas on moderation practice. It’s dialectics. As I said in another comment in this thread, I think the existence of posts like this is good even if this ban wasn’t a problem.
I think what you are missing is that they’re banning people for breaking Rule 5 that haven’t broken Rule 5.
Nobody is taking issue with them banning people that broke Rule 5.
If you don’t want to hear about vegans then block the community.
Doesn’t help much when one of their users is being so fucking stupid that news of it spreads across all of Lemmy.
The problem is, in my opinion, that they post memes that are clerly provoking non-vegan people for discussion.
It’s weird to jump under a “here are my 15 ways of cooking asparagus” post with anti-vegan content. But “look at these carnovorous clowns” memes are clearly offensive.
I don’t think it’s intended to provoke non-vegan people, I think it’s meant to be a ‘for us, by us’ community. PSA to all: there’s a block community button for communities that are not hateful or illegal (you should report those) but are things you’d prefer not to see on your personalized feeds
That’s what private communities are for. Calling people names while perfectly aware of it leaking into the public feed is a provocation. And it worked.
I’m not sure what you’re referring to re: name-calling tbh, and I think this thread is an overreaction, but I agree with you that non-private communities have some obligation to civility or something like that
Sounds like something a carnivorous clown would say!
(/s)
If they indeed promoted vegan diets for carnivores then I’m for a ban of the mod / community too. That’s very much animal abuse.
I’ve responded to this before and no one cared but here is the original thread since everyone has greatly exaggerated what was said about cats who are obligate carnivores not obligated to eat meat per se.
Also the notion of “owning” another animal is speciesist.
I’m not sure I can take the people in that community and what they claim seriously.
I admit I have no idea how to respond to that. Every vegan has different views on their lifestyle. I have two dogs, they eat kibble that has meat in it (they are very picky idk if I can change them to a vegetarian kibble), I homemake simple peanut butter biscuit treats for them, and I brush their teeth with meat flavored toothpaste. This is ok to me but is probably out of line for others. Some vegans would never own a cat and would rather own a rabbit or guinea pig instead. This vegan believes more that we shouldn’t have pets apparently. I don’t have this view so I cannot defend it other than they are trying to reduce harm in their own way.
And they’d ban you for your opinion.
The mod isn’t banning people for debating in the comments. A lot of people the mod is banning (myself includer) are people who only downvoted posts. Considering that a large portion of the posts are blatantly antagonist things like this, it easy to see why they’re getting downvoted. If you’re going to insult 90% of the users on an instance, then you’re going to get downvoted.
The mod could have made the community private so they could insult people without consequences, but instead, they decided to remain public while banning anyone who downvotes their insults. They want to continue to antagonize the instance while removing the instance’a ability to respond. They want to artificially lower the number of downvotes they get, so it doesn’t look like their antagonistic bullshit is as unpopular as it is.
Everyone could block the community, and if you choose to do that, that’s a reasonable response, but it shouldn’t be the only response. We should be able to express our opinion about the content in our feeds, even if it’s just downvoting it. Why should an entire instance be expected to hide from one abusive community?
I’ve been banned for breaking rule 5, which is weird since I’ve never posted in their community.
Have you had impure thoughts about breaking rule 5?
No, but you can bet your bottom dollar I will when I go to bed tonight.
![[email protected] mod suppresses criticisms of fediverse spam campaign, using mass ban technique to silence opposing viewpoints](https://lemmy.sdf.org/pictrs/image/3c83e0c1-768e-462f-8cba-e2d7dcdadee9.png){kind=link}
