It’s a bit shocking to me when I see people online putting 9/11 conspiracies in the same box as “MAGA” conspiracies (for lack of a better term, sorry).
For reference, I was 24 in 2001 living in central NJ. Even without social media or fake news websites or what cable news has become today, I have vivid memories of people having the firm belief that there was something up with the attack on 9/11. Was this just my social circle?
Jet fuel melting steel beams was one of the more fringe and unfounded (and quickly debunked) ideas but the rest of everything on that day was questionable. Tower seven falling, the missing plane debris at the pentagon and central PA, the military / president not responding to known threats, if a person with limited flight time could hit a tower, the fact that Bush attacked a country that had nothing to do with the event, and so much more are still, I thought, reasonable questions - especially when looked at together.
This is not about rehashing each theory. Or maybe it is? Have I missed that everything has been debunked?
I mean, I still believe 9/11 was an inside job or at least high level officials, including Bush, were aware it was going to happen and did nothing to stop it. I thought this was still a common opinion of most or many Americans over the age of forty.
You aren’t imagining things. People got caught up in the weird details, the fact that the plane meant for the white house just happened to not reach its destination (even though George W. Bush who was president at the time was in Florida anyways), the supposed untrustworthiness of the US government (staging terrorist attacks to garner support for things wasn’t even a new feature among American agencies, though all confirmed proposals had been rejected by the president), the fact this resembles something out of Nero Caesar’s playbook (which would make the whole thing kind of well-established at this point), and the fact that Osama Bin Laden’s response message to Americans was “released” just before the next election (almost like they were trying to then garner support for an election).
Seek out reasons to conspiracy-theorize though and you will find an Achilles Heel one out of ten times, and people here conjure them at a megafactory’s pace. Raising an eyebrow towards the conspiracy theorists is the fact the circumstances from the Middle Eastern perspective that led to the attack though, as well as the fact there even was direct acknowledgement by Osama Bin Laden and later their hosts in Pakistan at all, make it so that, even if it had been American agents who carried it out, it still might as well have been carried out by Osama Bin Laden by some form of proxy/tribute (in other words, his nation made it impossible to say they hadn’t looked forward to overseeing it, and from a war standpoint it would have been an act of war in a way either way, plus there are the witness accounts of the plane passengers, like we should ignore those), and it skews matters that both planes and buildings in New York City were not built to code (absolutely every liberty was taken even considering the more lenient building code at the time, for example the stairs were like motel stairs and the anti-fire system was inadequate), which throws a wrench into discussions of architectural physics (of note, I consider it odd people use physics to determine the suspects, that’s more of something that merely makes one wonder the “how” about something we all know physically happened).
Rule of thumb, when people go about this, I would think one should think in terms of a court of law. You’re a prosecutor making a case against or in favor or a suspect. Are you going to say “look at the physics of something that clearly happened, that doesn’t look right” or “but Emperor Nero did it” or “the person I’m accusing has a track record” or “some things seem awfully convenient”? Maybe you would, but that’s you, and testimony would become your nightmare. Also note that I’m sure nobody is saying agnosticism isn’t completely possible, even though people would think “alright, either you think they did this or that person did it”.
No, this was just your social circle. I know literally zero people who ever bought into any of that crap
I knew a dude who swore up and down the jets had missile launchers on the front they fired just before impact.
Im so glad archive.org exists. People keep trying to change history when you can just go to archive.org and see all the real actions people took those days.
Well, this one is real
Bush attacked a country that had nothing to do with the event
Well, yeah. That’s not really in the same category or ever really disputed
So your evidence that it was only spoken about in my social circle is that your social circle didn’t talk about it?
No, that’s my evidence that it wasn’t ubiquitous and typical.
Maybe not just your social circle, but social-circle-specific.
Seriously, it was pretty fringe to be openly truther back then.
It wasn’t till Obama that we started getting all these batshit insane morons on parade.
Birtherism really pushed it, but basically losing 2008 made the right desperate, they were willing to recruit from anybody, anywhere, right when social media started its upswing.
I think we can say most of our modern conspiracitardacy was fairly quiet till the social media wave.
That is not what I recall. What I do recall was both republicans and democrats having serious concerns that the government knew something we didn’t and that we were attacking a country for the president’s personal vendetta. This is based on my personal interactions with friends, family, and coworkers, as well as national and local news and newspapers. Granted, I’m from central NJ so perhaps we on higher alert and more “purple” than the rest of the country.
batshit insane morons
Was it birtherism or just Sarah Palin?
I think we can say most of our modern conspiracitardacy was fairly quiet till the social media wave.
I fully agree that social media has made things worse in this, and almost every, regard. Though, I’m trying to understand the mindset of Americans in 2001, not today, not post 2008.
The conspiracy around 9/11 was that the government knew more than they were telling us. That perhaps they were well aware of the event, possibly took part in it, and/or used it to manipulate public sentiment for invading Iraq for no other good reason or perhaps (ok, this I admit is crazy) setting up a new world order where we give up our rights for the sake of “national defense”. There would be no Wikileaks if there was no 9/11.
I admit this are a bit fringe-sounding but we were all aware of this back then. Didn’t most people believe there was some plausibility in these theories?
Don’t most people today believe the government knows more about 9/11 than they’ve told us?
we were attacking a country for the president’s personal vendetta
This had nothing to do with 9/11. Invading Iraq was much later. You’re conflating the two.
“Bush did 9/11” is crazy talk. “Bush invaded Iraq because he wanted to get back at Saddam Hussein and make money for Halliburton” is not.
If it’s your understanding that Bush’s invasion of Iraq in 2002 “had nothing to do with 9/11”, you are grossly mistaken.
https://www.congress.gov/107/plaws/publ243/PLAW-107publ243.pdf
Yeah it had something to do with it in that it was used as an excuse to invade iraq - not in that iraq had any legitimate ties to 9/11.
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/9-11-and-iraq-the-making-of-a-tragedy/
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/may/19/george-bush-iraq-ukraine-speech
My brother in christ, I’m not talking about the pretext the government used to attack Iraq. I’m talking about the fact that the two things had nothing to do with each other.
Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. The fact that the government used that as a pretext doesn’t magically link the two things.
I see.
Iraq - the country, had nothing to do with 9/11 - the attack.
Not, Iraq - the invasion of, was disassociated with 9/11 - the attack or national moment.I mean, 9/11 and Iraq are indeed magically linked, thanks to Bush. “Magically” is actually a great word to define the link between the two. Look - Cheney just pulled a Saddam out of a Bush!
I can’t say this was super prevalent in my social circle at the time in the suburbs of Boston. The only part of it that some people sorta didn’t exclude was the possibility that Flight 93 was shot down and we weren’t being told.
Yeah, I didn’t necessarily believe that, but I figured if they did, that was understandable in the circumstances.
Never known a real person to think it was an inside job, just internet whackos…so yea same as the Maga crowd - or any other whackjob conspiracy like flat earth, big foot, vaccines cause autism…
Central NJ - it’s so close… so to me its no surprise ppl are speculating and then that transitions into conspiracy theories that are perceived as fact.
Idk, I am similar to OP I think? From my perspective and memory, almost all of my social circle has some amount of confusion about different parts of the whole attack. Like how the fuck building 7 fell like it did or various aspects of the pentagon plane, or how we ended up in all the countries we did after the attack. But no, they weren’t “truthers” spewing these theories on Facebook or accusing some single government authority as the ones behind it.
I was 31 when the attacks happened.
While I do think that there was an awareness that an attack was possible, or even in the works. I sincerely doubt that anyone truly thought that 3 airplanes were going to be flown into buildings on that day and one crash in a PA field. The US had the attitude that we were isolated and well defended enough that such attacks were unthinkable. The complete one sidedness of Gulf War 1 really gave the US an out of proportion notion of being invulnerable. Even though the WTC was bombed 9 years prior, two years after the end of GW1.
Conspiracy denotes malicious intelligent intent. The reality is closer to stupidly complacent. Sometimes the two are hardly indistinguishable.
It wasn’t most people, but there were a lot.
A lot of people made fun of those theories and sarcastically pretended to believe in them. Maybe that’s what you remember. Our human memories are not very reliable.
I have vivid memories of people having the firm belief that there was something up with the attack on 9/11. Was this just my social circle?
“Conspiracy” covers a lot of area.
There’s people that think explosives were planted because “jet fuel can’t melt steel beams” and they’ve always been ridiculed.
There are people that look at facts that the different intelligence agencies had all the information to put it together, but due to Dick Cheney requiring each agency only report to him, he was the only one that saw every piece of the puzzle and would have known enough to stop it. GW didn’t even know enough, because Cheney was the only one talking directly to GW.
So some people have always thought Cheney (whether on his own or not) allowed 9/11 to happen to justify the wars he started under Regean and HW to continue indefinitely.
There’s people who claim Israel funded and caused it, when there isn’t really any evidence.
There’s people who claim Israeli spies were caught celebrating… But that was undocumented immigrants celebrating they got the day off work.
https://www.thejc.com/news/world/who-were-the-dancing-israelis-of-9-11-c7f9b960
That’s how conspiracy theories spread.
They took a kernal.of truth and build on it till it becomes something completely out of control.
Immediately after 9/11 everyone had questions and that’s 100% normal, I think that’s what you’re remembering.
It’s not the same as insisiting an unfounded conspiracy theory was true based on spurious evidence.
Thank you for the most thoughtful and direct answer.
The conspiracy is that the Saudi’s funded it and the families of 9/11 are still going after them so I guess it’s not a conspiracy. The stuff they found was pretty fucked up and deserves more investigation. Remember Bush protected Saudis and outed CIA agents probably to protect his obvious incompetence.
https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/11/us/9-11-families-saudi-arabia-lawsuit/index.html
so I guess it’s not a conspiracy.
It’s not a theory* it is a conspiracy.
As I mention above, the central power in SA needs us to keep other regional powers at check and the Wahhabi in power.
Even if government officials where involved on the attacks, that would be against the direct interests of the Saudi Crown.
In all cases, 9/11 was stated by the perpetrators to be used as an attempt to take the US out of SA (sacred land for Muslims) and every one had allegiances with either the Muslim Brotherhood (and through it Iran), Al Qaeda or, like in Bin Laden’s case, both.
This guy though fell from grace and started his campaign against the US during the Iraqi invasion, when the king and government decided that his plan of fighting with faith wasn’t as sensible as US tanks and planes.
In fact he tried to convince the Saudi scholars to issue a fatwa against the US deployment, but they preferred to keep their necks.
What I’m trying to say is, the SA government is a cruel, despotic and brutal regime but had little to no benefit from aiding in 9/11. Did they fuck up? I guess royally so, but I don’t see why would bite our hand.
Then again, I know nothing…
The only conspiracy that I or people I know may have given credence to is the idea that people high up in the House of Saud knew about, condoned and/or funded the attacks.
And there’s actual evidence that it’s not just a theory.
I’ve always thought the conspiracy theories like “Jet fuel can’t melt steel beams!” Were just memes, personally
I think to the majority they were. But as with most online jokes, sometimes people believe them.
There are a few conspiracy theories remember hearing a lot about (aside from steel fuel melting jet beams and tower 7) that I never quite followed up on. If know of evidence debunking these please share…
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CIA confiscating Security cam footage from a gas state across the street from the Pentagon which shows an American cruise missile hitting it instead of an airplane.
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No plane debris found at the Pentagon
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That entire wing of the Pentagon which was hit was “conveniently” closed for renovations
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No plane debris at the crash site in PA, which is said to have went down because the pilots bravely crashed on purpose to thwart the terrorist plans
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The owners of the twin towers updated huge insurance policies the day(s) leading up to 9/11.
The jet fuel burning steal beams is an interesting one. I remember, perhaps weeks after the event, if not days, scientists being interviewed on national news explaining the science about this and being very clear that this was certainly plausible - it wasn’t just the jet fuel but the surrounding materials and chimney like effect of the building which increased the fire’s temperature (don’t quote me on these details).
How it became the most prominent conspiracy theory is wild to me. Not dissimilar from a random xenophobic Facebook post about illegal immigrants eat pets becoming a major talking point during a presidential debate. Or how it was verified that the 2020 election was the most secure in our nation’s history yet more than half of Americans believe voter fraud is a serious threat.
As you’ve pointed out, that’s just a fraction of the “coincidences” surrounding this event. Individually, I could understand they’d be forgotten or swept under the rug but as a whole, it’s just a lot of stuff to swallow if you want to believe the “official” report. At the same time, I acknowledge that for this many “coincidences” to be planned out would probably be impossible to cover up.
In comparison, consider what’s know and still covered up about the JFK assassination. This is relatively small potatoes in scale compared to 9/11.
What’s the point of the government hijacking three airliners but then deciding to use a cruise missile on the Pentagon? The explosive dynamics of a cruise missile and a giant hollow tube which carries people are different and both look nothing alike.
Luck.
Flight 93 left wreckage when it crashed. The FDR and CVR were located around 20 feet/6 meters underground. The reason the parts are small is because the plane was put into a nose dive at a steep angle and crashed with a very high amount of force.
Coincidence. It’s a building which would be one of the first targets for a major terrorist attack.
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I still believe 9/11 was an inside job or at least high level officials, including Bush, were aware it was going to happen
Crazy talk. This was absolutely not a widely held opinion.
9/11 in itself would not be as sketchy if they did not use it as pretext to force through a ton of privacy violation laws which just so happened to be ready and only needed an excuse. And invade the middle east with a convenient pretext. And the FBI having advance warnings about 9/11 which were ignored.
I don’t care about whether it was jet fuel or pre planted explosives. 9/11 was used as an excuse to invade countries which we now know had nothing to do with it. And at the time the government knew they were lying about those countries complicity. So I still believe there is more to the story than what is made public.
not in my circles. Certainly taken advantage of big time though with bad laws.
