I am an Indian and I have noticed that Indians are way too proud of their country for some reason and at the same time lack any civic sense towards it, they are extremely loud and extremely proud. We feel like the world revolves around India and our culture is superior to that of others. Also, a considerable chunk of the population has been sold the “India is a world-leader” myth and they think India is somehow leading the world in innovation, science and technology, human development etc.,
Now, I know for a fact that this is not true, when I try to gauge the perception of Indians abroad on Twitter, I get pretty negative results, but Twitter has nothing good to say about any group of people, so… I kinda wanted to know what you people though of India, don’t base it upon the etnic Indians who might be your friends and are decent people, but base it upon the news you read, the stories you hear from those Indians, etc.
At a risk of downvote oblivion, this is what comes to mind to me. Keep in mind that this is just what I perceive about India through all the media I’ve consumed so it can come across as a bit prejudiced. I’m sure there’s more nuance.
The good:
- Amazing food, rich culture
- Seemingly big into tech.
- Very colorful.
- People seem generally friendly.
The bad:
- So. Insanely. Chaotic.
- Basic sanitation and infrastructure seem stuck a few decades ago.
- Female emancipation is lacking as far as I can gather.
- A lot of inequality in general.
- The weather seems like hell to me.
- Even though they’re big into tech, it comes across to me that the government and general population is still stuck in the mid 90’s regarding devices (pc’s etc, smartphones excluded).
I feel combining this with @[email protected] likely creates a fairly accurate sense for the place.
India is, well…despite their historical advances in medicine and continued strong cultural fascination with academia, at some point they became nothing but call centers, distribution points, and scam centers. There is certainly more to India, though when I think of hacking, I think of China and Russia. When I think of scams, unfortunately India is top of the list.
My general impression is that India are really good at scientific innovation and so on but only because the incredible inequality allows India to channel its resources so that it can be on par with other countries a fraction it’s size.
If they did the work required to lift the poor regions out of poverty, and sometimes just straight up feudalism, the country would become a proper superpower with far reaching cultural impact but right now India seem to slide further into Hindu nationalism so now it’s more of a worry for everyone else if India became another dictatorship like china.
To be fair, every country believes their culture is superior in some way, partly because it’s beneficial for governments to instil a sense of nationalism in its citizens. India’s not alone in that.
I can attest to that. I was born and brought up in India, and right now in the US for education. It’s kind of the same here as well, just expressed differently due to cultural differences. The fact that the US is actually the world leader at this time makes these people much more dangerous imo.
In any case, I’m more hopeful about my country after the last election. They seem to be rejecting religious fundamentalism to some degree. It’ll take time, but I think we’re finally starting to see through BJP’s lies. I hope I can go back to India soon enough. (It’s hard to get good jobs in my field there at the moment. Counting on it changing at some point.)
I agree, but we have crossed a limit between self-love and self-obsession. It’s hindering progress because people in India are not even ready to acknowledge what’s wrong with our priorities, culture and way of living and are calling anyone who questions their way of life anti-national. Sometimes, it feels like I am living in Eritrea or something!
You see that everywhere. Even within countries that aren’t classed as developing nations. The UK massively shot itself in the foot with the disaster that was Brexit thanks to nationalistic propaganda and outright lies from campaigners, and US liberals have faced “anti-American” backlash for their views.
Sadly, I have nothing good to say, other than the food is delicious.
India is one of the last places I’d like to visit. This is based on how India has been portrayed in various travel shows over the years (Amazing Race, Top Gear). It looks crowded, dirty, and the locals often aren’t very friendly, especially towards women.
One of your main exports to the west is scam calls. It’s a huge PR problem and your government refuses to address it. Your other main export right now is Russian oil.
Indians used to have a fairly large online presence in English-speaking spaces with mixed results. There were a lot of helpful tech bros on YouTube, but also a lot of horny dudes on Facebook. I don’t really see much of either of those anymore though.
My wife works in software testing and has regular interactions with Indians. Some are really nice, but others are really not. Misogyny is far too common and when Indians are rude they are boldly rude.
I hope that India doesn’t make the same mistakes my county (America) made, such as trying to be a major international player while ignoring the people in need at home. They’re already going that way, but there’s time to change course.
Also, I’d like them to fix their issues with Pakistan. That border was drawn by the British specifically to cause problems, and falling into that trap is letting the previous colonizers win.
Culturally, not a fan, for many reasons others have mentioned - and the whole caste system thing tends to sour a lot of the otherwise positive aspects.
That said, the food is EXCELLENT, and that must not be overlooked.
When I think of india, I think of scam centers disguised as tech support.
Talking of tech support, I must mention that your McAfee subscription has expired and at a low cost of $40 you can get lifetime access :)
I’ll share my perspectives on Indian colleagues. Not Indians raised Americans (who are more Americanized), but Indians who are from India.
Like others, I feel like this is a general sweeping comment that can be seen as racist and inaccurate. I agree. I try my best to keep it in check.
Indian women come off as entitled. They are both strong because men in India have been rude/off-putting to them, but also demanding. I recall one Indian woman tell me how she used to get catcalls and even had some pretty rape-y language thrown her way and she shrugged it off, calling those men pathetic. But then in her own words, “Would have been treated like a queen” by those toxic men.
Indian men come off incel-y. Not just the young ones, but the married ones too. My one “friend” made a pass at my 14-yo cousin. I now keep him at arms length. The married couple, the husband was a total creep to my wife. Then he defended himself saying that’s normal Indian men behavior. His wife was upset, so maybe it wasn’t? Either way, I didn’t appreciate it.
I only know about a dozen Indian folks in my circle. And again, Indians born in America are completely different.
I think it has a rich history and culture. That being said, I’ve never been, but the news that comes from there doesn’t make me form a good opinion. I always hear about horrific sex crimes against women, or gang rapes, or murders. I’m certainly not going to say that’s all they do, but that’s the bulk of news I hear about it. I hear about the scam centers that seemed to be baked into society. I hear about the caste system, the lack of cleanliness and infrastructure, I hear about the overcrowding. Yes, I hear that they work towards better tech, but the news I hear from there had places it squarely on the “Do not visit” list.
I hear that India is fun for parties and weddings, but also that it’s extremely dirty and a dangerous place to visit. I’m a man, but I especially wouldn’t want to be a white woman visiting, I’ve seen videos of how they’ll stare with no regard for how she feels - Indian men have a very poor reputation when it comes to how they act towards European/US women.
the “news” i “know” about india is little, some historical “facts” written mostly by uncivilized brutish invaders compacted to youtube videos by part or fulltime streamers. Some other “facts” which sound often bad i sometims mostly have from official media known to promote any “nice” propaganda - that is, depicting other countries worse than the own one so that people do not hunt their own gov with garden forks just to stop the crimes. Well i really “know” nothing about India.
But beeing proud of culture usually is a good thing, but that is only if it is culture and as such does not(!) base on abuse or similar.
Maybe what you experience could be a crowd effect that protects the people from seeing what they (group, society) do wrong while at the same time it protects the worst wrongdoers from punishment or at least from getting stopped. Such as it could be a self-sustaining downwards spiral taking more and more and everything down with it slowly increaaing pace. At least what you wrote sounded a slight bit chilling like that.
It could be hormones and how culture tells you to act or not act on them, or a lack of culture about such, maybe a combination of culture to “support your group” while that support does not always protect integrity of the overall concept of what that culture was meant for. A group of people cheering to each other how good they are might not want to stop cheering for “minor reasons” because it just feels good. While doing wrong things they could “help” each other (which is supposedly a good thing but can do lot of harm too) with arguments that this wrongdoing would be ok or even "good’ in this specific moment because of <insert_bullshit_here>. alltogether spiralling downwards doing so more often every day. So all of them can go on wrongdoing while feeling well supported or even falsely feel superior in general.
however a figure (real/not real?) well known in india once said something like “it is better to calm down and just do your thing than to overreact”. (this is the shortes version i’ve ever tried to compact it to but maybe you get the idea anyway).
I know for a fact that this is not true,
i don’t know the underlying things that make it a fact, plz share.
Of Modi, who was chief minister of Gujarat in 2002 when more than 1,000 Muslims were slaughtered in an inter-communal riot, she observes: “The courts, the press, the parliament are not functioning as checks and balances. If they were, he would be in jail today.”
Warning: sweeping generalizations ahead. These are the kinds of opinions I would normally keep to myself.
Based on what I’ve heard from my Indian coworkers, I think India has a culture of ignoring rules that leads to a lot of government corruption. They praise the ability of many people to hire domestic help, but of course they’re the kind of people who can afford it and not the ones providing it.
Based on what I’ve seen in the news, India has a huge problem with Hindu nationalism, which is basically just Indian flavored fascism from what I can tell.
Based on news about the US, I gather the caste system is so pervasive that rules against caste discrimination are being put in place in some parts of the US with large Indian populations. The caste system appears to be a sight variation of overt racism.
Culturally I view India a lot like I view Brazil, The Philippines, Hungary, and Turkey. Economically I view it as similar to China, only a decade or two behind.
I’m not surprised Indians are irrationally proud of their country; Americans are the same.
Generally, I think of India positively, but your march towards authoritarianism worries me. The last election lessened that worry a bit, but I still feel nervous about a regional nuclear war* between you and Pakistan or a land war with China, particularly as the region dries out.
As long as India strives to be a democracy and outlooks between you and Pakistan lighten, I feel pretty good about you guys.
*a regional nuclear war could cause seasonal disruptions to the entire planet, like some massive volcano eruptions that have dimmed the planet for a decade or more.
My background is US.
I still feel nervous about a regional nuclear war* between you and Pakistan or a land war with China, particularly as the region dries out.
Neither will happen. Both our politicians and Pakistani generals love sabre-rattling. Both also love their wealth and status too much to do anything stupid. And while China can really hurt us in a potential war, they can do at least as much damage by stopping exports to us.
My background is US.
Ah yes, self-titled world’s police.
your march towards authoritarianism worries me
Yeah, you may want to rethink that one given how the US acts.
Yeah, I poke fun at your comment, but I mostly want to push back on this idea of “authoritarianism.” So here comes a bit of a rant, but hopefully a compelling one. The problem with authority isn’t that it exists or that it is used, but who holds that authority, how it is used, and who benefits from how it is used.
Leadership stems from authority. Parenting stems from authority. Social contracts are upheld through their authority. Saying “no” is using a personal form of authority. The bartender cutting me off is an authoritarian act! You know what else is authoritarian? “Bringing democracy” to another country. (Seriously, how is that in any way democratic?)
Authority is just an active extension of power. Both authority and power are neutral. They aren’t inherently good or bad, but they can be used for either. Good and bad themselves are mostly a matter of perspective, who do they affect and how are what we care about. How are people affected by authority, how that power is used, and who are affected by it are a few of the aspects that help shape what we view as good or bad use of authority.
So if whether authority and power are good or bad is dependent on how they are used, then it matters a whole lot who has that power and what their interests are. Do they share their interests with you? Do they share them with most people? Are they using that power to mainly benefit themselves or to benefit others?
I would say that it doesn’t matter that power and authority exist and are used, they are a part of existence. Who has that power and their interests are what actually matter. Authoritarianism is an empty concept, lacking any real substance. Every decision you make is authoritarian. Upholding social contracts is authoritarian. Staging revolutions and quashing them are both authoritarian. ALL governments are authoritarian otherwise we could do whatever we wanted!
You live in the US, can you walk into a grocery store and a small amount of food because you need it? No, because it against the law. You must use US dollars. Can you go pay in a foreign currency or trade in other goods? No, unless the owners of the store forbid it. Can you diddle or traffick kids for other people to abuse? No, US laws forbids it (but they’ll excuse it if you’re rich enough, because money grants power). Can you walk into Congress or any business and use your authority to make them operate exactly as you want? No, you don’t have that power.
Instead of focusing on the empty word, authoritarian, a word that is essentially, and often baselessly, used to mean “evil thing we don’t agree with,” we should instead be looking at who holds the power that lends that authority, what are the interests of those with power and whether those interests align with ours.
You don’t like a government because it leans too far from your interests? That’s a good reason not to like them. That’s a good reason to go authoritarian on their asses. You don’t like a government just because they use their authority? That’s hypocritical. You use your authority all the time and may even do so to overthrow them…if you had the power.
