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“It is no measure of health to be well-adjusted to a profoundly sick society.”
Two things can be true
There’s still reasons to take medication and treatment of ADHD. Even though society is built to just make people on the top money and grind you down doesn’t change that fact.
Why do I need legal meth when you can take a fucking chill pill? Amirite?
The existence of one doesn’t disprove the other
False dichotomy. Why not both?
Broken societies breaking people…
Broken people breaking societies
Well duh. Ofcourse other people are the issue and not me.
that is part of the reason i don’t take dangerous drugs just so i can act more like a normie. bonus for not being treated like a kid/junkie.
Unmedicated ADHD has worse outcomes for a bunch of things like relationships, risky behavior (e.g. addictive behaviors), and tasks that require sustained concentration (e.g. driving). It is more often comorbid with other issues than not like anxiety and depression.
Personally, I’ve lost my ability to do many things I enjoyed after changing to non stimulant meds when getting them was nigh impossible (plus other side effects were starting to make them not worth it). Tango because it’s exhausting to have to pay attention to the flow of dance, plan what I’m going to lead, and execute it in sync to the music. Scuba because underwater is not where you want to run out of executive function no matter what kind of society I’m in. I almost lost my martial art because I didn’t have enough executive function left to practice safely about 2/3 of the way through class (luckily, I do adequately on my current meds). I’ve made absolutely idiotic relationship decisions when I was on stimulants but it was past the time of day when they wore off. It can be difficult to get started even on things I enjoy. Etc etc.
There’s no society that fixes me. I do ok in this one because of the coping behaviors, systems, and medications. But I would press the button that got rid of my ADHD without hesitation.
I almost lost my martial art because I didn’t have enough executive function left to practice safely about 2/3 of the way through class
along those lines, I’ve been thinking about getting into tai chi. think it’s adaptive enough that it works with adhd?
I tried it and got bored. Ymmv. You’ll have to shop around for something that you like and a decent teacher.
a decent teacher.
that’s what makes the class really, regardless of the martial art they’re teaching.
I like the nomadic/sedentary comparison of ADHD/normie. When things are steady and unchanging, and planning is usefull, then ADHD sucks. When things are chaotic and unpredictable, ADHD is a superpower (and medication hinders it).
My ED goes away when I need to react to a problem. Not sure how this extends to other people though… I’m good at problem solving, so I don’t get anxiety in front of the unknown.
tbh I am always disappointed when this conversation comes up in these spaces. I feel entirely left out and invalidated. It’s difficult for me to avoid the assumption that many of the people taking the opposing position here are self-dX. Like how mild are your symptoms that they go away when people are nicer to you and lower their expectations of you?
ADHD fucking sucks. I don’t mean the way people treat me sucks. I mean ADHD sucks. It is a roadblock that prevents me from accomplishing goals that I set for myself, even if I take a week off work to do it. Even if the goals are just for fun. I want to be able to focus on programming. I want to be able to focus on writing. I want better executive function. I want to be able to consistently make better choices. I do not want to be cared for. I am an independent person and I always have been. Living in a multigenerational household where my grandma does my laundry and I cook on odd numbered days when I feel like it or whatever will not change the way my brain works. It also just sounds like a nightmare.
For what it’s worth when I clap back at the “ADHD is a you problem” I’m not saying the meds don’t help. You can pry these drugs from my cold dead hands!
If life was more accommodating maybe I could use them to be the person I want to be and not to enable me to suppress burnout symptoms so that I can participate in capitalism.
Imho, the expectation that we musts et goals and achieve them is partly due to the society imposing this on us… Yet it’s true that we must still set goals regarding food and sleep!
When I’m by myself (ex: backpacking), I try to avoid setting goals, and to go with the flow. The hardest part is not to overpay for things when normies assume that “not planning” is a good reason to screw someone over. (ie: they didn’t book in advance, so off course it’s normal to charge 5x the price!)
I decided that I don’t want to be a virtuoso at the guitar, I just play for fun. If I can’t practice a full hour everyday because of my ED, I no longer care.
Unmedicated ADHD isn’t half as bad, if there’s a supportive community surrounding people.
Smaller families, atomized society, individualism all make is harder to socially compensate and coregulate.
Did you read my comment or do you just feel like saying both my experience and the research of experts aren’t worth anything? How the hell is a supportive community going to keep me from drowning or crashing a vehicle? I’d still be tired all the time, I’d still turn into an idiot when exhausted, I’d still be depressed. Society doesn’t change my neurochemistry.
A loving community that personally knows you and how you operate help of course. Not being along when swimming or someone else driving for example. Or you living a life where you don’t even need to drive a vehicle daily.
Exhaustion and depression are a result of constantly being overwhelmed, hypervigilant, and so on.
Your environment and activity can change your neurochemistry in a major way.
Let’s say you lived in a multi generational family. You don’t need to do all the laundry and household chores by yourself, nor do you need to manage them. Singing silly songs with a companion during chores make them more easily doable for someone with ADHD.
depression [is] a result of constantly being overwhelmed, hypervigilant, and so on.
Wrong. Absolutely incorrect. Stop reading whatever self help bullshit that told you that.
multi generational family
This sounds like absolute hell. Not all of us have good relationships with our families. Most of the people with ADHD have at least one parent with ADHD, and guess who has problems regulating emotions. And guess what kind of risky behaviors the children will engage in.
Even though there are more people to do chores, there are more people producing dishes, laundry, trash. It’s a wash at best for neurotypical people, but a bunch of people that have a hard time initiating tasks? Again, doesn’t seem like a rosy picture to me.
Studies have shown community is a key component in reducing addiction. A society that accommodated different sleep patterns would probably lead to less tiredness (I am a night owl but my job is 8-5, for example.)
Society doesn’t change your neurochemistry, that’s true. But it can change what your neurochemistry has to contend with. Consider a basic inorganic chemistry scenario: some materials dissolve in water much more readily when the water is hot. Does that mean they are insoluble, or poorly soluble, in cold water? Not at all. The environment impacts that behavior.
Goodness, I’m so sorry to hear how heavy your ED is. ED is the worst.
Tango because it’s exhausting to have to … execute it in sync to the music.
This is interesting – for me music is great for my ADHD because moving to beat harmonizes my otherwise completely discooridmated body. I can feel how movjng to a rythm extinguishes the restless inside me.
I really envy you people who would thrive in a different world. Since I stopped taking meds I have found it utterly impossible to maintain good habits. I don’t think socialism is gonna fix my brain you guys.
Well, I discovered (the hard way) that unreasonable, explosive rage is a side effect of that, so Vyvanse costing 800 is a feature, not a bug.
I found that I was more irritable on Vyvanse but I didn’t get explosive rage. Boring stuff like doing my laundry, getting to work on time, and brushing my teeth twice a day being less painful was more than a fair tradeoff imo.
If you read the documents that come with the prescription, “rage” is one of the explicitly listed possible side-effects. I didn’t read that until after I had difficulty managing my emotions in the face of stupidity.
We are broken because society is broken.
1000s of years from now, whatever proceeds us will be judging us for our microplastics use, just as we judge the Romans for their lead use.
we still use lead water pipes, tbf and we know the romans knew it was bad for them
I think you meant “whatever follows us”.
Or “proceeds from us.” “Precede” means coming before, “proceed” means originating from.
Yes
An animal just needs to survive. Would you have been able to survive in nature with your condition, but not in society? Then it’s society’s fault.
Humans are social animals that live in societies. Alone in the wilderness is not a natural state of living. To live in the wilderness, humans need to be in a group a handful of people at least.
Are you alive in this society with your condition? Yes…well then it’s not a problem. /s
You’d most likely be miserable without it too, just physically instead of mentally. It wouldn’t be easier, it would just be different problems.
Society is our natural condition though. The problem is that our societies are diverse and at war with each other, so it’s becoming overwhelmingly hard to tell which ones are ergonomic, and which ones are exploitative. Doesn’t help that the most ergonomic and non-exploitative societies around also feature significantly reduced individual consumption rates and lack of private property rights. Here in the west we are morbidly addicted to both.
This is just adjacent to that doctor Phil’s fat is good shit.
You have a chemical inbalance in your head causing undesirable behavior. End of story.
I am the last one to claim that adhd is not a disability, because i have to fight that freaking flipper machine of a brain daily in order to do things i want to do, but the bad comes with good and i think some changes in everyday processes and expectations would benefit a lot of people no matter if they are neuro-divergent or ordinary brained.
so no, “chemical inbalance” is not the end of the story, neither for treating adhd nor for society being able to utilize it’s people to the best of their abilities in a sustainable fashion.
Ohh right, and that means society is broken and the meds aren’t needed and that is societys issue how to utilize your ADHD workflow 🙄
ADHD ain’t your fault. It is your responsibility. And the world isn’t broken because of it.
yeah, lets also get rid of evelators, escalators and wheelchair ramps, because why should we care about people that can’t walk.
of fucking course it’s societies responsibility to work for the people that make it up and of fucking course that’s often not the case regardless of ones bodily configuration. the world is full of processes that don’t serve anyone and tackling those is what’s called progress.
but hey, whatever, live’s probably fine for you right now, so all must be perfect.
What device can I build you to make it easier?
The meds are required to function in a society that only makes room for a narrow band of people and behavior. We could improve society somewhat and our brains might not be such a barrier to having our needs met.
Two examples: My home is very ADHD friendly. We do chores at weird times, don’t panic if we stop in the middle of something, get things done in burst when we need to, give each other space when we are having deregulation issues and know that we have each others back. My workplace is also pretty neurodivergent friendly. We get up and walk around in meetings, I keep snacks and toys around for people who need a little boost or just a little something different to do for a few mins, we have layers of safety and redundancy so there is no single point of failure, human or otherwise. And we’re engineers who operate major utility infrastructure.
We can do better, or we can decide we love the taste or boot so much we just bend ourselves into something we’re not.
