Hi all! This is an alt for anonymity. Please be gentle, this is a hard topic for me to discuss.
I’m a progressive United States citizen who is looking to get out. I’m of Italian descent so I’m working on getting Italian citizenship through jure sanguinis, but it’s going to take some time, if it works at all (gotta substantiate some relations) and won’t extend to my husband until he completes a citizenship test, which he can do after living in Italy for two years.
Here’s my big question: is moving to Italy even a good idea?
I know there’s a significant element of fascism there, but that seems to be the case to varying extents throughout Europe. I’ve visited a few times as a tourist and everyone was very kind. I also have a US cousin that lives there as a permanent resident near Napoli and she is very encouraging, saying people will be welcoming. We don’t want much, just to make a living and maybe have a kid.
Italy has just changed it’s rules on citizenship. You now need to prove you had an Italian parent or grandparent in order to be eligible. Before, there was no generational cut off.
I literally just read about this. There goes that opportunity. Ugh.
Depends on how committed you are to the change.
Here’s the Reddit sub on the issue of citizenship by ancestry: https://www.reddit.com/r/juresanguinis/
Thanks for the link. I don’t understand your comment, though.
You would have to move to Italy and live there for a certain number of years. For you it is probably 10 years continuous residency although as your ancestor was Italian it might be much shorter. To go and live there you would need a visa - a work visa or maybe something like an elective visa (private income so you’re not a burden on the sate), or an investor visa (buying residency).
If you were to have a child while there I don’t know what that would mean. It probably means they would be eligible and you would have the right to stay and look after them. But you would need to carefully assess what that would mean for the child’s statehood and identity.
Thanks for the summary, much appreciated.
Unless you’re a directly targeted demographic, leaving the US is the coward’s way out. You abandon everyone who doesn’t have the means to flee. Stay and fight for something. Running away from problems doesn’t solve them, it just cedes power to the problem.
TIL: disinformation is a synonym for “presumptuous asshole”. Who knew?
TIL a ham sandwich is a synonym for cowardly pig. But we both knew that already.
LOL
You don’t know anything about this person or their personal circumstances. The only thing I know about you, based on your post history and these two comments, is you’re a divisive moron.
Dogmatic idiots like you made your country the shit hole it is today. Fuck off, blue MAGA.
I was planning on leaving if the orange got reelected. I only didn’t because in the years between when I made that decision (2021) and now, I found myself in a relationship cohabitating with my partner. She’s here as a refugee and can’t leave or that gets rescinded. It took some serious soul searching to decide to retract my longstanding plan to escape this hellish fascist-speedrun. I was even doing phone interviews. If you think you could be happy, do it.
politically speaking i think that makes no sense. i mean, you’re leaving because of the far right in power in the u.s., but then again italy is being governed by the far right. leaving your country, and therefore much of what you know, your support network, for political reasons only makes sense if there’s a well funded fear for your life because of your political activities. in that case i (as a communist) would probably go to a country with bland politics (where the far right would have no risk of reaching power for at least 10 years or so), or a straight up communist country, even if not of the same persuation.
there are other things that might make italy more attractive, such as having public healthcare, decent education, some social security coverage (subpar as compared to much of the rest of western europe, i think), cheap groceries. however, on the other side, housing and utilities are expensive. it will be better if you have a degree or some sort of qualification in high demand, it will be easier for you to get a job. however, when you’re an immigrant, locals will probably give preference to other locals, at least because it will be easier to communicate with.
Yes but isn’t Italy part of the EU? Once he’s in, it is easier to move to a different more liberal country member of the Union.
Learn the language as soon as possible, at least basic level. Bureaucracy is going to be hell, there’s no nicer way to put it. But I think you’ll enjoy living in Italy. You are not happy where you are now, so it’s great you’re doing something about it. Best of luck!
Moving to another country, especially when the native language is not English, that’s a massive challenge. It’s important that you’re going there for a positive reason. Otherwise you could have chosen anywhere, right? So your motivation to be a community member there would be low. So don’t just run away from Musk. Find other goals and reasons to aim for Italy.
Also, every country and city has some assholes loving in it. Not everyone is very kind. That’s life.
I wouldn’t want to live near Napoli, or anywhere in the south. Italy is basically 2 countries. The rich north and the extremily poor south. It’s a nice country but also has it’s own issues. I love to go on holiday there, don’t know if I would want to live there. But I have the luxury of living in The Netherlands, I guess anything is better than the US right now. Knowing the language helps a lot, if you do not speak it then for sure learn Italian, even if it’s just the basics. Americans don’t have a great status as expats or tourists, anywhere really, adjusting to the customs and loosing the americanism is recommended.
Might I ask about your concerns about Napoli? Are they more than crime?
Are there any areas you’d recommend? We’re looking for more community/family engagement and a slower lifestyle, if it helps.
I was just a tourist, so take that into account. But in Napoli I felt fine on the main shopping streets, but when I would take a side road I felt very unsafe and watched. It’s clear you don’t belong there and you feel a target on your back, or at least that was my experience. Tourist heavy areas are better, but there are more pickpockets there too. I felt like I constantly had to look over my shoulder and shouldn’t divert too far from the busy roads.
[I hate the north, they put up their nose at us like we’re peasants.
It’s really bad how the country is so divided. It would be better for everyone if this would change. But there’s a lot of crime in the south, so I wouldn’t want to live there.
You emigrate to Italy and then you’ll be an immigrant from the US. One’s a verb, the other a noun.
Once you have Italian citizenship you’ll be able to live an work anywhere in the Schengen region. So a lot more options once you’re in.
In the future, consider ensuring you actually know what you’re talking about before attempting pedantic corrections.
That’s not the difference. Both words have noun and verb forms.
Immigrate = to move to a place
Emigrate = to move from a place
Immigrant = a person who moved to a place
Emigrant = a person who moved from a place
So they would be emigrating from the US and immigrating to Italy. They would be a US emigrant and an Italian immigrant.
I’m comparing my options with the US, China, and Japan. All three have their issues but quality of life is much higher in the latter two.
I would consider Italy to similarly have a much higher quality of life which is worth it with all politics aside.
You comment about Italy having been fascist, and I would respond with no matter what you think about the political situation in China life is leagues above that in the US. Point being it would very much be worth it!
I’d vote with Japan tbh. there’s some communities of foreigners that live around Tokyo usually.
That’s our vote too currently :)
Plenty of Chinese and Americans in Tokyo and the best parts of China plus more. Also, a good location between the other two countries. If China didn’t have such a pollution problem it might be a more difficult choice. I really cherish the pristine nature in the US and Japan.
How do you move to china??
For me I would stay with family and apply for a PR. For people in general it’s very easy to come over to work or study.
I’ve dealt with US and Chinese immigration a lot recently and got to say Chinese immigration almost made me cry with how efficient and kind they were versus the US. US took years, hundreds of pages, thousands of dollars, and rude staff. Recently Chinese immigration interaction they only took three days and they called and fixed a mistake for us. They realized I could get a better visa than I applied for and did the paperwork and applied for me without an extra charge.
Hm, maybe I should learn Chinese after German haha
It’s a very cool language. Its grammar is dead easy causing me to think it’s actually not that hard! :)
China is also a very nice place. Two things from my latest visit that are new to me:
One how much Chinese families put children before all else. I always knew this but didn’t experience it until I had my own. It’s so sweet how many random people are kind because you have a child. I rarely experience this in the US.
Two how above and beyond family members go to treat you well. You want to do or consume anything, they treat you to it. Meals made for you. Clothes washed. You’re your parents, or parents in laws, child forever. In America, I find even with the sweetest parents a line is drawn after you turn 18. In China no task is too small for a Chinese parent to do. My love language is spoken but China makes me fully understand how much more meaningful action is. You can say anything but will you actually do anything at a minutes notice?
Just thought I’d share some positive experiences I’ve had :)
If you contribute financially you will find a warmer welcome, I guess
I can’t offer much but to say I’m quite jealous, lol. My wife and I have researched just about every possible opportunity to do the same, just to find everything either doesn’t apply to us or is just out of reach at this time (and for the foreseeable future). Asking for help around this topic typically leads to an insane amount of backlash online, so I’ve found…
If you’re able, come as an expat. There are lot’s of jobs that allow you to stay and after 5 years (differs by country), you can request citizenship.
Yeah, the Italian subs on the other place weren’t very kind when I asked a few years ago.
If I might offer some possibly applicable advice, hire a genealogist if you think you’re eligible but are stuck. I spent ten of hours researching what seemed like a dead end. We hired a genealogist who found what I needed in less than two hours and pointed out another eligible line I didn’t know qualified.
We’ve explored that route pretty thoroughly, unfortunately… Neither of us are eligible.
The far right national government certainly isn’t good, but you’re right that it’s probably not that far off from most other big european countries right now. Definitely research the specific region you’re moving to, there are often extremely large differences between regions in european countries when it comes to political leanings, general tolerance and economic opportunities and it’s not always as clear-cut as “big cities good, countryside bad” or “north good, south bad”.
Not to hate but what steps have you made to change your current situation? All Europe is moving towards the far right spectrum, if Italy were to be in the same boat are you going to keep on running? Why not try to improve your local community and make a change instead of running away. That’s the main reason why we are in this mess, instead of communities coming together, people leave and the o lay ones left behind are the ones voting for where we are at now.
No hate at all, it’s a good question. We’re both politically active, we even met at a protest lol. We’ve been involved in local politics for over a decade.
We’re now in our thirties and are just tired of the US employment rat race and general political apathy. I’m not going to pretend we’re not being selfish. We’re just tired.
What’s one guy gonna do against 52% of Americans who came together in their communities and expressed the democratic will to choose Fascism?
Unite his community, find like minded people and create a movement to vote these guys out? That’s literally the American dream
That assumes that like-minded people exist in sufficient quantities to do this. If they do, why haven’t they voted already if they do? Why do they need to be told to do something or united at all when OP doesn’t? What’s different between them?
52% of those who voted
In reality, Trump was voted in by around 32% of Americans who are eligible to vote. He’s tearing everything apart with a mandate from 23% of the US population.
Democracy, baby!
You should drop this argument. Those who haven’t voted are assumed to have the same distribution as those who did.
Republicans turned out at slightly higher numbers than Democrats relative to their representation in the U.S. population (8 points vs. 5 points).
And there’s a lot there suggesting a leftward lean from the independent portion (eg. disproportionately non-white, non-Christian and urban)
Agree. I got downvoted to shit for making this point although, as an outsider, I probably came across as smug or something.
Quasi-compulsory voting is awesome.Do you have any evidence to suggest that whatsoever?
Life is most certainly better in an Italian city then an America mid tier nothing city.
Italy is being run by fascist lite.
So like the US dems?
Is that any worse though?
Fascista Leggera ⚖️ Full blown McFascism
Fascista Superleggera V12
Just wanna say warm wishes, share your research if you find anything.
