Hi all! This is an alt for anonymity. Please be gentle, this is a hard topic for me to discuss.
I’m a progressive United States citizen who is looking to get out. I’m of Italian descent so I’m working on getting Italian citizenship through jure sanguinis, but it’s going to take some time, if it works at all (gotta substantiate some relations) and won’t extend to my husband until he completes a citizenship test, which he can do after living in Italy for two years.
Here’s my big question: is moving to Italy even a good idea?
I know there’s a significant element of fascism there, but that seems to be the case to varying extents throughout Europe. I’ve visited a few times as a tourist and everyone was very kind. I also have a US cousin that lives there as a permanent resident near Napoli and she is very encouraging, saying people will be welcoming. We don’t want much, just to make a living and maybe have a kid.
You emigrate to Italy and then you’ll be an immigrant from the US. One’s a verb, the other a noun.
Once you have Italian citizenship you’ll be able to live an work anywhere in the Schengen region. So a lot more options once you’re in.
That’s not the difference. Both words have noun and verb forms.
Immigrate = to move to a place
Emigrate = to move from a place
Immigrant = a person who moved to a place
Emigrant = a person who moved from a place
So they would be emigrating from the US and immigrating to Italy. They would be a US emigrant and an Italian immigrant.
In the future, consider ensuring you actually know what you’re talking about before attempting pedantic corrections.
I’m comparing my options with the US, China, and Japan. All three have their issues but quality of life is much higher in the latter two.
I would consider Italy to similarly have a much higher quality of life which is worth it with all politics aside.
You comment about Italy having been fascist, and I would respond with no matter what you think about the political situation in China life is leagues above that in the US. Point being it would very much be worth it!
How do you move to china??
For me I would stay with family and apply for a PR. For people in general it’s very easy to come over to work or study.
I’ve dealt with US and Chinese immigration a lot recently and got to say Chinese immigration almost made me cry with how efficient and kind they were versus the US. US took years, hundreds of pages, thousands of dollars, and rude staff. Recently Chinese immigration interaction they only took three days and they called and fixed a mistake for us. They realized I could get a better visa than I applied for and did the paperwork and applied for me without an extra charge.
Hm, maybe I should learn Chinese after German haha
It’s a very cool language. Its grammar is dead easy causing me to think it’s actually not that hard! :)
China is also a very nice place. Two things from my latest visit that are new to me:
One how much Chinese families put children before all else. I always knew this but didn’t experience it until I had my own. It’s so sweet how many random people are kind because you have a child. I rarely experience this in the US.
Two how above and beyond family members go to treat you well. You want to do or consume anything, they treat you to it. Meals made for you. Clothes washed. You’re your parents, or parents in laws, child forever. In America, I find even with the sweetest parents a line is drawn after you turn 18. In China no task is too small for a Chinese parent to do. My love language is spoken but China makes me fully understand how much more meaningful action is. You can say anything but will you actually do anything at a minutes notice?
Just thought I’d share some positive experiences I’ve had :)
I’d vote with Japan tbh. there’s some communities of foreigners that live around Tokyo usually.
That’s our vote too currently :)
Plenty of Chinese and Americans in Tokyo and the best parts of China plus more. Also, a good location between the other two countries. If China didn’t have such a pollution problem it might be a more difficult choice. I really cherish the pristine nature in the US and Japan.
If you contribute financially you will find a warmer welcome, I guess
I can’t offer much but to say I’m quite jealous, lol. My wife and I have researched just about every possible opportunity to do the same, just to find everything either doesn’t apply to us or is just out of reach at this time (and for the foreseeable future). Asking for help around this topic typically leads to an insane amount of backlash online, so I’ve found…
If you’re able, come as an expat. There are lot’s of jobs that allow you to stay and after 5 years (differs by country), you can request citizenship.
Yeah, the Italian subs on the other place weren’t very kind when I asked a few years ago.
If I might offer some possibly applicable advice, hire a genealogist if you think you’re eligible but are stuck. I spent ten of hours researching what seemed like a dead end. We hired a genealogist who found what I needed in less than two hours and pointed out another eligible line I didn’t know qualified.
We’ve explored that route pretty thoroughly, unfortunately… Neither of us are eligible.
The far right national government certainly isn’t good, but you’re right that it’s probably not that far off from most other big european countries right now. Definitely research the specific region you’re moving to, there are often extremely large differences between regions in european countries when it comes to political leanings, general tolerance and economic opportunities and it’s not always as clear-cut as “big cities good, countryside bad” or “north good, south bad”.
Not to hate but what steps have you made to change your current situation? All Europe is moving towards the far right spectrum, if Italy were to be in the same boat are you going to keep on running? Why not try to improve your local community and make a change instead of running away. That’s the main reason why we are in this mess, instead of communities coming together, people leave and the o lay ones left behind are the ones voting for where we are at now.
No hate at all, it’s a good question. We’re both politically active, we even met at a protest lol. We’ve been involved in local politics for over a decade.
We’re now in our thirties and are just tired of the US employment rat race and general political apathy. I’m not going to pretend we’re not being selfish. We’re just tired.
What’s one guy gonna do against 52% of Americans who came together in their communities and expressed the democratic will to choose Fascism?
Unite his community, find like minded people and create a movement to vote these guys out? That’s literally the American dream
That assumes that like-minded people exist in sufficient quantities to do this. If they do, why haven’t they voted already if they do? Why do they need to be told to do something or united at all when OP doesn’t? What’s different between them?
52% of those who voted
In reality, Trump was voted in by around 32% of Americans who are eligible to vote. He’s tearing everything apart with a mandate from 23% of the US population.
Democracy, baby!
You should drop this argument. Those who haven’t voted are assumed to have the same distribution as those who did.
Republicans turned out at slightly higher numbers than Democrats relative to their representation in the U.S. population (8 points vs. 5 points).
And there’s a lot there suggesting a leftward lean from the independent portion (eg. disproportionately non-white, non-Christian and urban)
Agree. I got downvoted to shit for making this point although, as an outsider, I probably came across as smug or something.
Quasi-compulsory voting is awesome.Do you have any evidence to suggest that whatsoever?
Life is most certainly better in an Italian city then an America mid tier nothing city.
Italy is being run by fascist lite.
Is that any worse though?
Fascista Leggera ⚖️ Full blown McFascism
Fascista Superleggera V12
So like the US dems?
Just wanna say warm wishes, share your research if you find anything.
As I haven’t seen this mentioned so far: Be sure that you both learn the language.
Seen a lot of posts in other immigration heavy subs/communities where people move to europe and don’t make any effort on learning the local language, and then are surprised/depressed that they can’t find any friends or jobs
I agree only like 20% with this. I’m an European who migrated for studies and work to 5 other European countries. It does help to learn the language but if you go to a big city or a university town, most people will speak English and you only need to learn the coffee place/restaurant/supermarket basics. It’s still a big decision and op shouldn’t do it on a whim
I have an Italian friend, so tried to learn Italian. I did French at school (30 years ago), so how hard can it be, right?
Real fucking hard.
WHY DO SO MANY THINGS HAVE GENDERS?! WHY IS AN APPLE TREE HE, BUT AN APPLE IS SHE?! (or is it the other way around?)
I’m English, so I guess I’ll just carry on the grand tradition of talking louder and using hand gestures.
WHY IS AN APPLE TREE HE, BUT AN APPLE IS SHE?!
Just wait until you learn about eggs, ears or fingers
Bapidi booopi?
Most Italians don’t speak correct Italian. As long as you make yourself understood, in day-to-day life it doesn’t matter.
Of course work may require you to perfect your language skills for certain roles.
100%. We’re taking classes and using Babbel already, just in preparation. I doubt we’ll be fluent by the time we’d move, but we’ll be functional. We just don’t want to be more entitled Americans who expect everyone to speak English. We want to do the work.
Hello, Italian here.
So I’ve been a traveller most of my life, for work, and when I was younger, like so many Italians, I dreamed of emigrating to so many different places; life had other plans, and I stayied. Luckily I was able to make a career in a profitable field, and over time I came to appreciate my own country, always looking forward to coming back home.
There’s much to be said for Italy’s cultural heritage and natural beauty, and anywhere you may be in our country, a weekend getaway to visit a beatiful city, historical sites, beach or mountainside is always fairly accessible.While the rightward move is worrisome, we also have the factor that governments in Italy rarely last to the end of their mandate (we’ve been getting better on that), let alone get elected more than once. Italy was never rid of fascism, in part because that wasn’t in the US’ interest, but also always had one of the strongest communist factions in Europe, so who knows.
What I’ve got to warn you about is economic struggles: Italy has among the lowest wages in developed Europe, for most of us it is impossible to afford an abode alone, most people wait until they’re married because it takes two working people to be able to pay for a single apartment or house (houses for most people are only affordable way outside of cities) and where possible we get mortgages, because rents are impossible; all of our lives are coloured by monetary constraints: we drive small cars because they’re cheaper to own and operate, we mostly hang clothes because driers are another appliance you have to buy and are expensive to run, we rely on a deteriorating public healthcare system because private healthcare is, while usually affordable, an expense we cannot afford.
That said, if you can manage to find good paying jobs, in my opinion this is a good place to live. Of course you need to speak Italian, there’s very low knowledge of English here.
Best work chances are in the North, unfortunately it’s also the least appealing when it comes to natural surroundings, fog, humid heat and bad weather are typical unless you go WAY north to the Alps. If you really feel the need to be in a left-leaning environment, Emilia Romagna is the “red” land of Italy, since the country’s creation has always been governed by left wing parties, and as such has among the best public infrastructure.Let me know if you need to know anything more.
Thank you so much for a very helpful and detailed response. We’re both planning on working remotely and we’d actually prefer to live outside of the cities. I’m good at learning languages and my husband is bilingual and excellent with accents, so we will work at being fluent in the language of wherever we settle.
In your opinion, can we ever be fully accepted by any Italian community or will we always be “that (hopefully) nice American couple”. I worry because we’re missing all the cultural touchstones gained from growing up in Italy. We’ve been advised to be persistently nice with neighbors and that bigger cities will have English speaking immigrants we can meet up with, but we really want to integrate, acknowledging it’ll take time and effort. Do you think that is possible?
We’re both planning on working remotely and we’d actually prefer to live outside of the cities.
Meaning you already have jobs lined up for this? Remote work in Italy is not uncommon but not super common either, and usually it’s not full remote. Be aware that many areas of Italy have poor connection speeds.
can we ever be fully accepted by any Italian community
I don’t see why not. Maybe focus on being yourselves rather than what you want to be seen as! Of course making new friends as adults always presents challenges, anywhere, but Italians are known to be friendly and outgoing.
Meaning you already have jobs lined up for this?
Yeah, we already work remotely. My employer is fine with my working anywhere in the world. My husband’s employer isn’t, but he’s working on new employment. We can survive on my income alone.
Maybe focus on being yourselves rather than what you want to be seen as!
Thanks, that’s the plan! We’re both friendly and outgoing, I think more than most Americans, so I’m hoping that helps.
Thanks again for the info and your encouragement. We experienced a lot of xenophobia when we previously asked on Reddit, so this has been really refreshing.
If you need anything else let me know! Godspeed.
Italy was never rid of fascism, in part because that wasn’t in the US’ interest, but also always had one of the strongest communist factions in Europe, so who knows.
Ok! Better be fascist then communist, seems it is not equal (for me), but Italian fascist new better…
It’s not really clear what you’re trying to communicate
If you’re white and have a reasonable amount of money you’ll be fine anywhere in Europe 😬… I’m only half joking.
Oh hey, we’re kinda on the same boat here (without the jure sanguinis part). Probably would try to get to a university instead. A big bet, I know, but there’s not much to go on here either.
Lol my country is falling to the fascists. I may as well move to a country that has already fallen to the fascists.
Italian fascists are left wing compared to the Trump admin
Progressive here too. We’re staying on the blue coast.
Take a trip to Italy, as long as you can, and do a ton of research before you commit. That is a very large commitment, and you should have the language down pat, enough savings for a year, and a job lined up, or very strong prospects. If you are missing any of these things, I wouldn’t recommend going.
For me personally, I wouldn’t move unless there was significant danger. The grass is always greener. There will always be benefits and tradeoffs. I couldn’t see my family moving to Italy, even if we were straight. Their slide is not too far off from our own.
US ex pat here:
I agree with a big decision, but I strongly disagree with needing the language down pat before you go. You should know some for sure, and mostly have a willingness to learn it. You’re going to learn so much faster while there than you will studying in the US.
Just need enough language to get by at first
anywhere outside Milan you won’t be able to rely on English for anything. Bureaucracy and services are going to be a nightmare without conversational Italian.
Totally. But “down pat” and conversational are a bit different.
I say go for it. You have better luck getting rid of fascism in Europe than you have in the US. Just know that if US influence is waning over this part of the world, it means US democrat as well. And China will likely become the new big influence on the region if not Russia. And such a transition will be very violent.
This is true, if Europe goes fascist the Americans will invade and bring y’all some more freedom. If the United States goes fascist we’re all just screwed.
