If you asked me like 4-8 years ago, I felt kind of neutral about things. Now I don’t feel an ounce bit patriotic or proud enough to even state that I’m an American.
Now, when I see an American flag around, I see it as a symbol of fascism, anti-intelluctialism, neo-nazism, and late-stage capitalism amongst other things. If there’s an American flag flying on a car, I can totally see that person possessing at least one of those qualities.
I suppose it’s good to be self aware and not blindly feel patriotic and ignoring that your country needs improvement.
I don’t know what I’m expecting in the comments here but just thought I would get this off my chest.
No, you shouldn’t, because nearly half the country voted against Trump. It wasn’t enough, but it certainly indicates a significant portion of the country opposes him and the ideologies behind him. What we, as Americans, should be ashamed of is our pathetic educational system, which is at the root of this problem.
Both Republicans and Democrats are at the core of this problem. Republicans don’t want any public education at all and Democrats have polluted public education with Far Left propaganda that has fueled conservative rage and helped Far Right people divide the nation. Race and gender issues have eclipsed class issues, which are the real problems of the nation. As much as LGBT and racial groups deserve their particular rights, the real divisions at the heart of America are between the middle- and working-classes and the ultra-rich. Corporations are the prime devil that need to be taken down, not White men. Plenty of White men are suffering at the hands of corporations and they need to be woken up. The most recent election has shown that non-Whites are just as susceptible to Trump’s charms as anyone else. We need to stop focusing on superficial divisors such as race and gender and start focusing on class divisors much more.
Democrats have polluted public education with Far Left propaganda
I’m not familiar with that. Please cite a reputable source.
Less than a third of eligible voters is not half the country. The winning vote was “nobody” if you include all non-voters. I’d bet if “nobody” was on the ballot they would get even more votes. I wonder why they don’t offer that option? Because they have decided that you must be ruled. There is no alternative according to the ruling class. Convenient how that works out.
The US hasn’t had more than 2/3 voter turnout for over 100 years. This was the second-highest turnout in that time. That is abysmal.
You can blame those non-voters till you’re blue in the face, but the reality is that the US system doesn’t get people to vote, because people hate the options, and that is a perennial problem.
As an anti-aurhoritarian I’ve been of the opinion that that we’ve been an authoritarian hell hole for pretty much all of my life. Yes Trump is a fascist but the government is also heavy-handed when Democrats are in power. If you’re encouraged that almost half of the votes went to authoritarian Harris, I’d say you shouldn’t be. She wasn’t a leftist, honestly I think of her as a little bit fascist too, just less ironically puritan.
You know that two things can be bad, but one is worse than the other right?
I’ve always felt pride in the ideals of my nation, and shame from its actions.
But at least I still hold onto the ideals. It’s not nothing.
No, but to make a post about how “cringe and icky” you feel is pretty fuckin cringe.
It also doesn’t make a ton of sense to be fine with America through the duration of Trump’s first presidency (which started 8 years ago and ended 4 years ago) but to feel icky for his second presidency??
Which also implies that Biden was the turning point for your loss of patriotism.
Something tells me this might be the first election you were old enough to vote in. And if that’s the case, I hate to break it to ya but each election season is always better than the next.
I didn’t get the chance to vote in the last two presidential terms that’s correct. I also had political views back then. The difference here is we reelected someone we knew was garbage, and not only that but a threat to our democracy.
Before that, I could see the flag as a symbol of hope, and a symbol that if there is an inherent goodness in all of us, maybe, a slim majority of us can vote for someone less bad than the orange rapist.
After the election, if I had a flag to wave, I would rather pull it down or fly it upside down out of embarrassment. We truly are a nation run by idiots.
Upside down flag means distress. Seems pretty valid right now
Same, I just feel kind of gross now when I see it. Sad as I still love my country, just not what it’s doing now.
Every time I see flags out in public, it just reminds me of authority.
I don’t like authority, from schools administrators to employers, or even parents, fuck them all, wannabe fascists.
Flags, school logos, corporate logos, or the concept of the “family name” its all the same. (I’d change the family name if it doesn’t cause so much paperwork trouble)
Maybe this flag as a replacement?
Found the anarchist
Are you on Lemmy? Yes? Then you’re just shooting fish in a barrel on that one.
None of us are using Lemmy because we agree with the status quo out there.
Thanks for the laugh. It’s basically all I can do at this point is laugh about how shitty it is.
“To this extent? Yes.”
Came here to post this. Thank you for your service.
I am from Canada, and while the flag could go either way for me, mounties, even in their blood-red uniforms do turn my stomach. (Paintings by Kent Monkman, showcasing the “Sixties Scoop”
Our past further back has not been much help.
In addition to the physical appropriation of land was the colonial effort to eliminate the transmission of cultural identity, traditional skills, and connection to the land. Beginning in 1883 (while this was the date of the first federally established church school, similar institutions existed as early as the 1830s, years before Canadian federation) Indian Residential Schools (IRSs) were established in Canada (as were American Indian Boarding Schools in 1862). Children were forcibly removed from their families and were institutionalized in IRSs with the explicit goal of ‘taking the Indian out of the child’. These mandated church-run IRSs endeavoured to save the souls of the ‘savages’ by immersing them in Euro–Christian beliefs and eradicating access to traditional socialization values, language, practices and ways of life. By the 1930s, roughly 75% of First Nations children attended IRSs, as did many Métis and Inuit children. The last of the IRSs was closed in 1996, but by then several generations of children had experienced the mistreatment that abounded in these institutions.
Then to really prove we could be as evil as everyone thinks we’re polite, we added this gem to our crown.
“It is readily acknowledged that Indian children lose their natural resistance to illness by habituating so closely in the residential schools, and that they die at a much higher rate than in their villages. But this alone does not justify a change in the policy of this Department, which is geared towards a final solution of our Indian Problem.” -Duncan Campbell Scott to BC Indian Agent Gen. Major D. MacKay.
And there are those who say it is in the past, and everyone is crying over things from long ago, yet 1996 is not so long ago for Residential Schools, and our police deny any ongoing wrong-doings. I for one do not feel patriotism for our past, though I have some small hope for our future.
You tell me, man. Over here in Brazil, seeing a national flag outside the context of “it’s world cup match day” generally signals whoever is flying it is a fascist twat.
Dang, that’s interesting. Thank you for the context. (-an embarrassed american)
Fun little anecdote – One of my neighbours is one such twat. They used to fly a Brazilian flag from their window.
Then Jan 8 2023 came and went, and the “patriots” failed to manifest a CIA-backed military coup in our country by camping outside army boot camps (because the CIA right now has other problems and doesn’t care to fund right wing dictatorships in Latin America, and our military does not like to work and will never move their asses, for or against any cause, without a fat paycheck telling them to) – And they became disillusioned.
So they replaced the Brazilian flag, with the flag of SE Palmeiras, a soccer team. Which is hilarious because Palmeiras has history with the original fascists, like the Italian, Mussolini-before-he-was-hung ones.
It’s a good step to consider patriotic ideology as prelude to fascism and tribalism. Welcome in the world of great oportunities, free from borders and labels put with force in your mind. Welcome there, human!
As a German, I feel you.
Here’s an alternative take to upset the boring consensus here.
Patriotic pride (not necessarily nationalism) is the inevitable product of social cohesion. A society which is cohesive is one where people look at strangers and see them as members of their tribe - essentially, as extended family. It’s a society where citizens are therefore willing to pay high taxes to fund those strangers’ welfare benefits, for example. No welfare state has ever arisen in a country without this essential quality. Almost by definition, social cohesion is closely correlated with patriotism. In the world’s most redistributive countries - I’m talking about Scandinavia, of course - you will see more national flags than you might think given their “leftist” reputation. In Sweden, ordinary houses sometime have flagpoles in the garden, I’ve seen them. None of this is coincidental.
Patriotism can be a dangerous slippery slope, yes. But it’s also what empowers strong states and collective action. Nobody wants a patriotism-free world more than the billionaires that everyone hates here. Be careful what you wish for.
It also stands for showing sign of dementia these days.
No. The
Great Value Bars and StarsStars and Stripes make me feel nothing but shame right now.Team america, world police
We suck.
And don’t forget, ACAB.
The greatest lie the Right ever told that the Left bought hook line and sinker was that they were the ones who represented America.
The thing is, while the US has it’s horrible history and present, the people who fought for the ideals we’re supposed to have are also just as much American as any conservative asshole. MLK Jr was American. Frederick Douglass was American. John Brown was American. Mister Rogers was American. Abolitionists. Suffragists. Union fighters. People fighting for fixing the problems, righting the wrongs, holding our country accountable for it’s own ideals, are just as much a part of that flag.
The assholes laid claim to that flag and the people who are aware of the problems, who have legitimate concerns with the bullshit this country has done and continues to do, accidentally let them.
I agree with this with every piece of my heart. I’d like more than anything for American non-maga’s to take back the American flag (and the gadsden for that matter). Let them have their maga and thin blue line, but ceding the American flag to them is essentially admitting that you don’t want to be a part of this country, which only makes maga’s feel more comfortable about labeling you as an “other”. I know, I grew up in a conservative family, and still live in a conservative state. It’s a self-exacerbating problem.
I can sympathize with those that really are done with the country, but I’m not ready to give up yet. We can flip the script. Pride marches should be flooded with American flags. Civil rights too. Force conservatives to come to terms with the fact that they’re no more American than the trans-commie over there waving the big-ass American flag. If we’re so lucky to make it through this and come out the other side a better country, I wouldn’t necessarily be opposed to changing the flag. But right now I believe it makes strategic sense to claim the 50-stars. Fly your other flags with it if you don’t want to be confused for a conservative, then you’re essentially projecting “hey, I’m American too, dumbass!”.
TL;DR: the American left needs stop being so self-concious about what waving an American flag says about them and realize that a.) non-maga’s waving the American flag can be a powerful propaganda tool, and b.) they can take it back.
🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲 NAZI AMERICANS FUCK OFF 🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲
Being an American is supposed to be about learning to be better and doing the next right thing.
This requires introspection and critically assessing our system to ascertain whether or not it’s lifting us - and the world - up. This noble, inclusive, empathetic approach (which we fail at all the time but we often try) is literally impossible for conservatives.
So then the question is, what should the flag represent, the people or the ideals? If it’s the ideals, then some real shitheads are trying to steal your flag.
The flag represents whatever we are, and right now we suck.
