We have joint custody. Daughter lives with each of us for 2 weeks at a time.
Wtf dude! Mom should not be encouraging that.
I’m really sorry. This is a terrible situation for you - and your daughter.
Die zweite Hälfte ist ja auch mal … etwas
This seems extremely phishy
Okay, most people here talking about “is it legal, is it gross, is the ex a cunt, all of the above”.
I’d just like to point out that regardless of all of that, since there is legally nothing you can do, the best you can do is support your daughter. Don’t engage with the toxic ex. Just let your daughter know that you’re not happy about it but that you respect her and support her no matter what. And behave accordingly, don’t get mad at her, show her your kindest side.
What your ex is doing feels like manipulation to distance her from you, in addition to rage bait you. Don’t fall for that.
This is a good levelheaded response. I’ll also add I have 2 relatives who had similar age differences in dating. One ended in flames like most relationships do for 17 year olds (and honestly that whole relationship stunk of trouble from a mile away) but the other they’re still together almost 20 years later as she’s turning 35 and he’s approaching 65 (they’re at a similar emotional maturity level, and honestly could grow more as people in order to live more fulfilling lives but I digress)
Give your daughter the support she needs. Let her know you’re there for her and will catch her when she falls and maybe it’ll work out, maybe it won’t.
Yeah, if (more like when) things go south for the daughter, he’s going to want her to feel safe and supported enough to call him. If she feels pushed away she might not reach out for help when she needs it, which is the worst case scenario.
If I had to guess, this is a daughter trying to fill the void of a father figure. I don’t see a problem with the pairing but the reason is unfortunate. The dynamic won’t be normal but that’s not necessarily a bad thing.
The man will likely move on when he realizes he can’t get more than the physical aspect from this. He’s probably just reliving his youth for a bit anyway. It’ll pass.
TBH, it works for some people. I have a cousin that was happy for 30 years when he married a similar age gap in the other direction.
It really depends on the person. My boss from the bike shops was 20 years older than me and his wife was my age yet they made a great couple too. They were both pro amateur level cyclists and finding a good match like that is not common.
I was physically disabled at 29, and if I was somehow able to recover, I would likely be more interested in someone 10+ years younger because that is how long my life has been in limbo. I didn’t get a lot of the life experiences.
In the world of today, expecting the old normals is pretty much nonsense. Where I live, there is no chance someone in their twenties lives on their own and has any kind of financial stability unless their parents are creating it. Those types of people look to marry and date within their social class. Only fools at the bottom fail to see the social classes and caste systems in all societies. Your ex is likely right in my opinion. Most of our religious and cultural norms are little more than a tool to suppress the peasantry. Resisting the unfamiliar is common tribalism behavior but it has little to no value in the present world. The man’s age is irrelevant against the measure of the man. I’m against taking agency away from your daughter. Meet the man with a open mind and then make your case with your daughter if you need to, but don’t be dogmatic.
I disagree, but your post is thoughtful. I’ll just point out:
Only fools at the bottom fail to see the social classes and caste systems in all societies.
In my country, people of all classes fail to see the social classes.
You are not wrong, but age gap should be considered relative to the people age. 20 yeats difference between 20 and 40? I guess, still not the best thimg ever… Between 17 and 38? It’s very very different, people mature A LOT between 17 and 20. Then of course it depends on the person, maybe this 17 years old is mature for her age, but maybe she is just being taken advantage of.
Also, the wording of the mother really implies it’s an assimetric relationship, not really one between consenting adults, of course we don’t know, but still…
Not saying it is like normal or anything. Am saying society in general in the west has far too authoritarian mindsets that are just dumb. If you go telling this girl she doesn’t matter, at that age, you’re shooting yourself in both feet and likely the head as far as she is concerned. She will not stop because anyone said so. She might listen to some amount of reasoning, but dogmatism has absolutely no chance of reaching a better place. It has a very good chance of getting MUCH worse.
Am saying society in general in the west has far too authoritarian mindsets that are just dumb.
How does that have anything to do with a creepy 38 year old dating a 17 year old?
That is true, for an adult issue, a serious and adult conversation must happen with this girl, even if it could be okay, the situation itself should be evaluated because it can get very gnarly. We don’t know much about OPs way to handle it, but it’s also possible this specific situation is fine.
Either way, I agree that just telling your daughter to stop doing something she clearly feels like doing, even if she has a distorted view of that something, is not going to help anyone.
3 adults and only 1 cares about the child.
This sounds like the beginning of a telenovela or a “Law and Order: Special Victims Unit” episode.
Definitely a lot more than mildly infuriating.
This definitely feels like a job for a professional family therapist.
What a cunt.
Sounds like the mother knows that the daughter is well aware of what it’s really about and that she enjoys the spoils.
That’s quite different from “but I KNOW he really LOVES me!!!11”.
I don’t suppose there’s any chance this could be used as grounds to get sole custody?
It’s difficult though, because she’s old enough that it’s not going to be very long before there’s nothing you can do to stop it, and even if you mean well, there’s a chance this could irreparably harm your relationship with your daughter. Especially if it takes lawyers to do…
Would you be alright if she were 18 and “legal”? What’s the age difference you would be comfortable with?
OP is from Germany, where the age of consent is 14.
Legal doesn’t make it not gross.
As a 33y/o single white male, lemme tell you that anyone below 25 is downright unrelatable, 21 y/os aren’t sober enough to give you any real meaningful consent, and younger than that might as well be children.
I get it though, I’m talking about a relationship. Hooking up with 18-20 is appealing for a hot minute when you only pay attention to physical attraction. But when you think about yourself at 18-20 you were still super influencial and don’t know how consent fully worked yet.
Plus, unless you’ve been an athlete in top physical shape, age has caught up with you. ED hits in the 30s. Muscles weaken. Arthritis is beginning to form. I’ve never had cavities until 31.
I have stuff and money. But stuff and money is a power imbalance. An intimate relationship with someone so young would feel closer to a lengthy time with a naive hooker more than anything.
I’ve always held to the rule of divide your age in half and add 7 as a good judge of the absolute youngest age you should consider dating someone.
At 18, that would mean 16 is the youngest they should consider dating. At 38, it would be 26.
I’m right around the same age as you, and I feel much the same way. I can relate to and was on very good terms with the high school kids I used to work with at my old job all through my late 20s, but I could never imagine myself dating someone who is in college or just graduated. Even at that age, people are still developing so much and lack life experience that it’s hard to relate to them on the same level. I could relate to them in the same way as the kids I worked with, in a “I remember what it was like to be that age” kind of way, but that’s about it.
Legal doesn’t make it not gross.
That’s talking from a western and probably highly US-influenced perspective. Most westerners will probably find it OK if a 35 yo woman dates an 18 yo man, but the other way around it’s “gross”.
If we’re fine with 18 year olds making decisions like enlisting in the army, why are we grossed out by them dating people double their age?
I have stuff and money. But stuff and money is a power imbalance. An intimate relationship with someone so young would feel closer to a lengthy time with a naive hooker more than anything.
That’s great for you, not all 18 year olds are naive hookers.
No, they aren’t. I didn’t say they were. I said it would feel like that. There is no 18 year old who has advanced education, faced many of the challenges of adulthood, and they still have 7 years of brain development left.
By that logic, 18 year olds shouldn’t drive, own a gun, enter the military, bear children, and many because they are in danger of killing themselves and others. Why are you not drawing the line at all those things but dating older men? Dating older men is more dangerous than the military? Than driving? That choosing the wrong profession?
No, I stated that it being legal doesn’t make it not gross.
Something being gross is an opinion. The law can change. In my opinion, it’s gross. I’m not arguing against the law, I’m saying it’s gross.
Instead of being offended, and trying to deflect my opinion on things that I coincidentally agree on (yes, I think 18 is too immature for all of that. I’m basing that opinion solely on the age when brain development finishes at 25), try to convince me it isn’t gross.
I’m disagreeing with the legal gross thing, I’m saying you are highly influenced by a US perspective that isn’t morally superior to anything. Also, I’m not offended, you seem to be since you’re the one repeatedly saying “gross” like a little child. If you cannot be reasoned with and will just be “grossed out” by it, well then, there’s nothing more to say.
But that’s not how that works?!?
It’s gross to me.
It’s legal. I’m not advocating changing that. I’m expressing my opinion it’s gross.
What you are saying is that I can’t have my opinion. Or that my opinion is wrong. Yes I judge others based on that opinion. But my opinion isn’t preventing anyone from being gross.
Is there some translation thing going on here where my opinion has direct impact on you? It’s not meant to. It’s meant to say that I think a 38 y/o and an 18 year old dating is gross.
Because it’s an opinion, if you wanted me to have a different one, you would explain why it isn’t gross. Instead I’m “influenced by a US perspective (that is not true, your opinion is common here too).” Morally superior? Fine. Maybe I am being morally superior, but I am not advocating for it to be illegal. That doesn’t make sense. 18 has been decided in the States as the age of majority. Adults can adult.
It’s still gross.
