Not to play ‘devils advocate’ or whatever you’d prefer to call it, but i’d rather ‘blue’ make it PERMANENTLY ILLEGAL to ever consider doing [INSERT BAD THING] to [INSERT GROUP HERE]. Holding the vote hostage because ‘if you vote red, they’ll do [INSERT BAD THING] to [INSERT GROUP HERE], so not voting for us every time means you implicitly support doing [INSERT BAD THING]’
Except instead of magic we have to actually pass laws which require you to elect people and go through a tedious process.
Coming from a communist, vote today, protest tomorrow. I’m voting for Kamala and then immediately protesting for the Palestinians AFTER her election (hopefully).
At least we will still be able to protest if Kamala wins
I love the saying, “The trees vote for the axe, because the axe has a wooden handle. Eventually, there’ll be no more trees.” I’m paraphrasing.
Oh shut the fuck up, just because we lack compassion for Gazans doesn’t mean we’re going to end democracy.
This shit is frustrating, but I just can’t waste any time on them. They try to make their indecision into something moral, but I think it’s just fear. Like deer in a headlight. The world and it’s realities are coming at them at a break neck speed and they’re terrified, so they do nothing. They tell themselves that it’s better to fall into facisim than putting on your big girl panties, growing up, and doing what needs to be done. Vote today, protest tomorrow. And the day after, and the day after that. Write your representatives, call them, bother them, go to their offices, let them have no peace. But do not delude yourself if you’re too scared for that. Throwing your vote away is helping anyone but your ego.
Coming from someone who always votes left down the ticket because I live in a republican state hell hole:
There’s a reason we want democrats in charge. They aren’t perfect, but my state had a democrat governor (somehow) for 8 years until this year. The very first thing the supermajority red government did was axe the ethics board. The next thing they did was pass laws banning books that acknowledged gay culture at all and a unilateral bathroom bill with felony penalties.
The “both sides are the different flavors of fascism” take only works when you’re completely blind to what republicans are actually out there doing.
wow books and bathrooms? and we have been worried about 100s of of children murdred every week for last one year and countless other civilians.
if i had to guess the dnc got booted because they did nothing of what was campaigned for and shit on their actual voters like biden.
This almost reads like you think the republicans would do anything about gun violence. But you must know they don’t give a single shit about your children unless they can fuck them.
Sorry but the democrats won’t save us. I’m not gonna support the people who I am currently watching commit genocide as if they won’t do the same to me as soon as it benefits them.
Awwww, drag thought you were a leftist. 😢
I am drag, just a very, very disillusioned one. I’m sorry to dissapoint you but I can’t compromise on this one.
Disillusioned? The illusion is that we can maintain our purity in the face of fascism. The illusion is that the USA is a democracy. It’s not. It doesn’t give us the choice to say no. It only gives us one, very limited choice. If we want more choices, we have to create them ourselves. And we can only do that if we get our hands dirty with the work of preventing further decay.
We have to bail the sewage out of this shit-river skiff with our bare hands. It’s disgusting, but it’s the only way to survive long enough to patch the hole properly. The idea that we can get the job done with our hands clean is the illusion.
one of these choices is going to delay the bad things slightly more which is very important for buying time for us to organize
the people you say will defend trans people from eradication cannot even say they will protect trans people’s right to healthcare, or even their right to exist. you need to understand that they will throw trans people, and really all queer or minority groups, under the bus the very second it becomes politically expedient.
It’s an election where you have to sway undecided voters, and by the numbers, trans are not that target. Point blank. You have two choices right now, as shitty as that may be. Which side do you think there’s a better chance of progression at?
In case anyone doubts my comment about how liberals will apply the same logic to trans rights as they do to Palestinian rights, look no further.
There aren’t enough of us to be worth considering on our own. That means our only hope of security is through a voting bloc that rejects the ideology of lesser-evilism and stands up for everyone on principle. Otherwise they’ll sell us out the very moment that defending us becomes an electoral liability. Take note.
So you think we should abstain from voting to somehow create a utopia of equality, that has literally never existed in history or any country ever, instead of working towards the best possible chance? Even MLK said how it would take the help of white people to get black peoples rights. You aren’t going to win this war on your own, you need pragmatic support of others to win this fight.
Are you lost?
What?
You’re attempting to justify liberalism’s tendency to self destruct via “pragmatic” lesser evil voting in a left wing space. Liberals are not left wing. Harris is not left wing. Harris is as dangerous to the left wing population as any other cop turned president.
What the actual fuck are you on? It’s Harris or trump. And so you’re for Trump because Harris is a former DA?
How did this line of thinking even come up? Because what you’re saying here is that Trump is the only choice.
I’m not even american so yall do yall. But your head is so far up your ass that shit is coming out of your mouth. Instead of making it impossible for an actual fucking fascist to win, you’re playing right into it.
Lesser evil is all the US has. You only have two parties lmao.
Edit oh shit comrade. I see what you’re doing. I always forget how many poor russions are on here. Lmao. Nostrovia or whatever
He’s not American either. He’s either Chinese or Russian.
Is this where the people in panel 3 hang out?
Well panel 3 is an obvious strawman, but yeah
Those are quite obviously stick people
BlueMAGA propaganda out in force today. Someone at the pentagon be getting overtime.
stop trying to make bluemaga work Gretchen it’s embarrassing
Ah yes, the famous pentagon blue maga shadow task force focused on lemmy.
There’s dozens of us.
Oh look, a straw man! Liberals just can’t help themselves lmao. I bet their exposure to leftist ideas is their “Obama insults Trump” moment.
They truly cannot mentally reconcile being fascist genocide supporting capitalist dogs.
Well, yeah, since you’re a fascist, I’m sure those libs must be driving you crazy.
Cool story bro. Guess you’re okay with trump winning and he also supports genocide
By giving your unconditional vote to Harris, you’re not saying “I’m voting for the progressive candidate because of trans rights”. What you’re doing is saying “you can being the most republican-minded, Dick-Cheney-endorsed, conservative economically, and gaza-genocider candidate, as long as it’s minimally less harmful than Le Drumpf”. That’s how you enable the constant slide to the right in politics that you’ve seen for the psst decades. The idea isn’t solely “I’m too morally superior to vote for either wing of the American Corporate parties”, it’s also “enough numbers of progressives conditioning their vote to the end of genocide might make the dem administration sway towards ending the genocide.” And if not even that will make democrat leadership even question their commitment to the extermination of Palestinians, then the conclusion is simple: death to America.
If Harris wins, the republicans will nominate “evil candidate Mk.2”, and we’ll have you libs criticising people for protesting against Kamala’s support of the genocide, saying that “protests weaken democrats and we need them to win again in 2028 or else…”
So instead your proposal is to vote for project 2025 and watch the world burn?
God, you’re so brainrotten by the narrative of “not voting for Harris is voting for Project 2025” that you can’t even get the words of the comment you’re responding to into your brain.
your proposal is
My proposal, as stated in the previous comment that you answered to: “enough numbers of progressives conditioning their vote to the end of genocide might make the dem administration sway towards ending the genocide”.
What part of that isn’t clear, or what part seems like calling for Project 2025?
Question for the people posting this kind of meme, and fighting with leftists online: do you spend half this much time calling your dem reps/senators and demanding a change to their policy of supporting genocide? No need to reply, this is just for you to consider.
i swear to fuck, if i don’t stop seeing this garbage after the election then I’m going back to reddit.
If hearing about your countries support for genocide and your complicity in it makes you want to stop listening, you should think harder about your actions.
(Assuming you are from the west)
There’s a difference between hearing that your country is flawed, and hearing that your country’s flaws are a reason to become a centrist.
Question for the people fighting the folks (most of which are leftists too) that vote Democrat out of self preservation: do you spend half as much time attacking Republicans too, or organizing out-of-parliament opposition?
A vote for Harris will not make things better. But if Trump wins, it will get so, so much worse.
You accidentally commented on the wrong post.
Sorry dear, I’m not voting for genocide. Get a candidate that doesn’t support genocide.
Imagine voting for fascism. That’s what you are doing.
Nope, I’m not voting for Harris or trump, you must be confused dear.
I’m not your dear, friend.
The absolute irony in fascist liberals saying this.
Everything they accuse leftists of really is a projection, it’s incredible.
I’m no liberal lol
There isn’t one
Coin flips always have the 1/500 chance of landing on the rim. If I make a binary decision with extreme ramifications into a trio of options, it’s not malicious disingenuousness, it’s just bad luck!
Claudia de la Cruz and Jill stein do not support genocide. One of those two are on your states ballot.
No, they just support authoritarian dictators that support genocide.
Nope, they objectively, probably don’t. But enjoy living with knowing you directly caused the death of millions of children.
lol, no
That’s not how any of this works
Jill Stein supports the genocide of Ukraine.
The US is not commiting genocide in Ukraine.
Americans are killing Palestinians?
Yes actually, even before Biden stationed 300 permanent troops to over see the thaad system we’ve deployed, many civilians volunteered for the IDF.
You are choosing your enemy. If you want to try persuading the Hitler-admiring fascist of your cause, I wish you all the best, but I’d guess the other candidate could be the easier choice.
As an outsider, I will consider you a bunch of complete morons, if you choose a second coming of Trump. I wished I lived on a different planet, where your choice wouldn’t affect me at all.
I would love it if there was one like that, but unfortunately there is not for this election. I am very protective of my trans and queer friends and if trump is elected it will directly affect their lives in harshly negative ways. If you look at what is happening with trans laws in red states the framework for a genocide is there and there are certainly voices in Trump’s circle who want that to happen on a large scale.
What’s happening in Palestine is awful and I want the least amount of awful to happen in the world. Having another genocide happen on top of the one already happening would help absolutely nothing and hurt a lot of people.
Defending genocide because you’re scared you’ll be the target if you don’t makes you no less of a genocide supporting fascist. There were Jews in the Nazi party until the very end, a few knew what was happening and stayed.
They are not victims, they’re Nazis. Same with those that choose genocide in hopes they won’t be the target.
Ha! Lemme tell you bout a guy that has a copy of Hitlers speeches on his night stand…
Cool, let me tell you about the 30% of Palestinians that are missing or dead that Harris has stated is not a red line.
Whoever is selling you your narrative is lying to you. I firmly believe that a Harris loss will pave the way for a Trump hotel and luxury condos in Gaza. And the U.S. will become a dictatorship. But believe whatever you want. Just know that the people handling the anti-Harris narrative never talk about the Republican view on Gaza or the fact it’s Congress that votes on the aid, not the President.
Harris has already greenlit hotels in Gaza. She has stated repeatedly she will not change from Biden’s foreign policy, and Biden’s Israel policy is stationing troops on n Israel and a carrier off the coast so no one can stop the genocide.
What in fucking FOX NEWS is this shit? This is some TELLING shit you know. Like, mask-off level TRUMPER shit.
Yes, trump supporters famously are against genocide and Israel. You’re so smart.
Sorry facts hurt you this badly that you completely malfunctioned.
Are these “facts” in the room with us right now?
Because yes, Trump supporters (and Iran Psyops) would gladly feign support and “care” about a cause such as this, in order to try and sway people to vote third party, knowing that it would hamper votes for Harris.
And I’ve looked for this “Harris has greenlit hotels in Gaza” shit. This is straight out of Newsmax or some Qtard conspiracy site.
None of these concern-trolls are going to vote anyways. Most of them are foreign operatives, or some well-to-do who’s gotten caught up in the rhetoric - because most people don’t have the free time to participate in slacktivism.
Well as long as you Nazi adjacent cult members keep that same energy if Harris pulls a Clinton instead of crying for 8 years straight that people didn’t like your warmongering fascist.
I know that your whole schtick is calling people Nazi, Fascist, Racist, etc while not actually understanding what those terms mean, so this reply is legit hilarious.
You literally attempted to defend a developer that was kicked off of the Linux Kernel maintainers list, and called me a racist for showing he had state-sponsored ties to the Russian government not just a day ago.
You never showed that, so good work making up history. What’s that called again?
In any case if you support genocide, if you vote for genocide, if you’re such a pathetic coward that you excuse genocide because you’re scared you’re next, you’re a fascist.
I guess it’s too practical to think, “hmmm, which candidate is more likely to lessen or work to correct the genocide of Palestinians?”
A non-vote or third-party vote is a vote for Trump, Trump will not “just” support genocide, he’ll participate. I hope you enjoy your Trump vote, Trumpet.
It’s not the people casting no-votes who are the problem, it’s the two-party state that divides and conquers us all. I mean the majority of the public doesn’t support the genocide in gaza, but here we are bickering with each other because we don’t get a voice…
No doubt, but we need to take things in steps, step 1: keep Trump out of office then step 2: focus on things like RCV and getting big money out of politics.
But you don’t get to solve that problem with this vote. You try to solve the problem of the two party system with a sustained effort over time, but it’s not on the ballot this year.
The US currently has troops in Israel helping their genocide.
I’m not voting for genocide, Nazi scum.
A non-vote or third-party vote is a vote for Trump
Are you telling me Trump won the 2020 election with over 60% of the vote??
A non-vote or a vote for third party is a vote for Harris obviously.
Get with the program, sweetie. Biden is the only viable candidate and a vote for anyone other than Biden is a vote for Trump.
yay! they are pretending to protect queer people while pretending to care about brown people dying in the third world for the country’s murderous power pursuits!
such an improvement!
All these “lefties” is weird. Yes, i understand your concern, but have you guys tried to convince Trump supporter to join your course and support your course? Because at this rate those independent WILL NOT WIN, drawing vote from Democrat is securing Republican position. Your strategy is not pragmatic and will only make sure you score an own goal.
As a British person, I think living under Keir has made me even more apathetic to the US’s faux-democracy. The attacks against trans people, disabled people and Palestine have arguably got worse, even if the authoritarian element has got some of the nastier neo-Nazis a bit disorganised.
What people say about Palestinians today, they will just as quickly say about trans people tomorrow. As long as some minority is in the crosshairs, none of us are safe. The only viable strategy to ensure survival is solidarity, to recognize that our struggles are united and that an offense against one is an offense against all. Otherwise, you might as well be a pick-me.
One of the most important things we learned in English class when studying fascism was that when it comes to fascism, you’re next. It is not wise for a minority to throw the other under the bus, as if their suffering does not matter, not only because it isn’t moral, but you’ll see the people use the same excuses when your rights will be in danger.
Drag agrees, and would like to thank you for speaking up against these non voters. As you say, we need to have compassion for Palestinians. If Harris loses the election, then Trump will bomb the West Bank. There’s a lot of privileged losers saying we can afford to take that risk in the name of making some kind of point about democracy. That the lives of Palestinians don’t matter. And precisely as you say, if we abandon our Palestinian siblings by not voting for Harris, then it’ll be the trans people going to the concentration camps next. Drag thought maybe .ml was beyond saving, but your words prove that not everyone on ml is willing to let fascism happen in the name of ideological purity.
