There’s a great initiative going on right now trying to hold Ubisoft and other game publishers accountable for shitty practices like this by trying to petition governments from a few different nations to create legal protections for people to continue to have access to their games they purchased after the publisher decides to abandon a game. If you live in an EU country especially, you might be able to help sign a petition still: https://www.stopkillinggames.com/
The petition doesn’t seem to be active, i.e. signable, right now.
There’s a bunch of petitions and actions possible on various parts of the world. It’s not just one meaningless online petition but a comprehensive plan to bring this to attention of various governments worldwide. Keep an eye out, there might be something you can help with in the future depending on where you live.
They just need to come out and “lease” the game.
“Buy” should no longer be on any selection as far as live service games go, or any game dependent on developer servers to operate.
How’s the lawsuit in Australia doing by the way?
Ubisoft has done a fantastic job of convincing me to never buy a Ubisoft game ever again.
Not sure that’s how a company is supposed to work, but they sure seem to think so.
Well, they aren’t alone. Blizzard and Activision is on my blacklist. As well as pretty much any studio own by Microsoft at this point… Oh, and Sony! Can’t forget about them.
The list is long.
Nintendon’t!
It’s better than what Bungie did with Destiny 2… just gutted 1/2 the content from the game, including all the story missions and the first several paid expansions.
They wanted to attract new players with a smaller download size, but the new players come in and go “WTF is going on?”
Both of those things are shitty; it’s just one of them is worse.
That’s the most baffling MMO decision I’ve seen, tbh. WoW has plenty of issues but at least they aren’t just deleting the continent of Northrend to save on install space or anything
Bungie’s problem is they don’t really want to make a story based looter shooter, they want a free to play PvP gacha engine.
I would’ve been fine with that if that’s how they launched it. It wasn’t. I stopped when they sunset a bunch of shit the first time in the first game. I figured the second would be more of the same, but sunsetting entire DLCs is nuts.
Whoa, wtf? How did I miss that drama, haha holy shit. I definitely remember downloading it a few years ago and being aghast at its absurd size (think it was around 120GB? which nowadays that’s pretty par for the course because fuck optimization). But gutting half your content just to save space… have they not heard of compression? Like what the hell were they thinking haha
They didn’t just remove story missions and quests and things, they removed entire PLANETS from the game. It was crazy!
IMO once you delist a game and shut down servers where people cannot play anymore then it should become open source and not protected IP.
Open source is too far, but as part of a shutdown of a game and it’s servers there should be a year long period where the publisher is required to release the game without DRM, including the server software, to all customers.
I could see it going through Steam, you get a message “Delistment notification: The Crew is being delisted, get your permanent copy now!”
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I get what you mean but that is not feasable, however, if we look back at the old multiplayer experience like in Unreal Tournament 2004, the company runs a master server, and the community runs the game servers.
The master server just lists the game servers and allows for a server browser. That is WAY less resource intensive and can be run almost indeffinately.
The master server for UT2004 ran continously for almost 20 years, and when Epic announce it was shutting down, a fan server was created and after a quick edit of the config file you can play UT2004 multiplayer exactly like it was in the past.
So let’s go back to that model of multiplayer, it requires a bit of skill to set up your own server securely, but you’ll have way more choice and less commitment of resources from the publisher making it available for longer at less cost.
eventually there’ll be some breaking operating system or hardware change that will force the use of a virtual machine, compatibility software, or other types of emulation to keep playing.
I still can play Unreal from 1998 on modern Linux. Faust bless Torvalds and his “never break userspace”.
Worse solution, but I would accept if publishers were forced to clearly display the exact date when the game will stop functioning at the point of purchase and all advertising materials.
I see what you’re getting at but this would be difficult for a publisher to stick with in the event the game does horribly. Requiring them to keep their word to the date advertised would end up with them only guaranteeing a week, or send ramifications through all industries requiring truth in advertising.
A middle ground would be simply to legislate that when games require online connectivity for any reason, the appropriate software is released to allow a locally run server to enable online function at the time the company decides to decommission their servers. Then require them to hold these files in an accessible manner for at least as long as the servers had been active for.
That would be difficult in the event the company goes out of business, but I’m sure this would be a difficult thing to explain to most politicians so maybe not so simple after all.
If they can’t keep their committed date (or fold entirely), then the source goes open. If every copy happens to get deleted during the bankruptcy, treat it as criminal fraud by the top levels of the company and go after everyone that could have decided to improve backups and other IT methods of avoiding that but didn’t. That’s assuming it was accidental, higher penalties if it can be proven to be deliberate.
In an ideal world, the penalties you describe are suitable. Though, gaming industry aside, for the executive level of most any corporation, being a scapegoat and handed a golden parachute is the worst case scenario for them leaving. In many cases floating across the street right into another executive position.
Jail time isn’t a likely outcome. It just isn’t the world we live in, unfortunately.
Yeah golden parachutes are such a joke in this society that likes to pretend to be a meritocracy.
Though on that note, I’d love to see a law that limits golden parachutes to the lowest paid position in the company. Hell, I’d be ok with that being scaled to full time. Not because disgraced executives deserve even that much but because it would give some incentive to increase pay rates across the company. I’ve also long thought that executive compensation should also be limited by some multiple of the lowest pay. And yeah, I’d include stock options and grants in that (for both employee and executive compensation).
Agreed. The whole idea of these huge payouts could be eliminated and replaced with what exists for everyone else - severance pay. Calculated off a regulated minimum formula, based primarily on how long the person served the company.
I also agree with you that the top and bottom salaries should have a correlation. The C suite making the salary of a shelf stocker in one day should not happen. I think I could accept that the top gets somewhere around 10 or 20 times higher salary. Even 100x would be an improvement to the way it is now.
Like you point out, between stock options and whatever else, an executive salary could be a few hundred thousand, even if their total compensation is tens of millions. In fantasy land it would be nice if, once a company grows to a certain point, say a billion dollars in value, if it were required to convert to an employee owned cooperative entity.
It’s a shame things are the way they are. Maybe one day we won’t have politicians that can be bought. That’s a different discussion altogether.
Full refunds would be reasonable, if they wanted to protect their IP
Is there a source for Ubisoft wondering why they are a hated company or did you just make that up
Pretty sure it’s just a figure of speech, bud
Dude there’s literally an entire article about them saying that gamers should ‘get comfortable with not owning their games’, a lot of Ubisoft Connect accounts that had ‘The Crew’ have had their licenses revoked, and the game has been shut down since April 1st.
Okay but my question was specifically if Ubisoft was asking that question at the same time they are making these decisions. That last panel would be funnier if it were true.
Man I was so sad when Ubisoft bought Blue Byte. I always held out hope that they’d switch publishers eventually but they never did and then they got bought. Now I know I’ll always have to put up with Ubisoft bullshit to play Anno, one of my all time favourite franchises.
who’s laughing?Ubisoft of 2010 (ish) had some real great games. Shame they’ve become what they are now.
2010ish?
They’ve had some shoddy shit, but they also have some solid titles in their backlog. The Rayman series, P.O.D, Gex, Splinter Cell, the original Rainbow Six titles, Beyond Good and Evil.
I’ll take my pills and go sit down now.
The recent Prince of Persia game was actually pretty good. I definitely acquired it on my Switch thru alternate methods, but I almost felt bad because I do wish for them to return to that kind of game design on the regular versus a one-off with that title.
RIP Red Storm Entertainment.
Here’s a neat tip:
You can go to most publisher or developer pages on Steam and “ignore” them to prevent Steam from ever showing your their slop again.
Example:
- Go to: https://store.steampowered.com/developer/Ubisoft
- Click the “Settings” cog.
- “Ignore this creator”
You can do the same with EA, 2K, etc. Don’t even give these parasites microseconds of your time when they release their next slop title.
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LEMMY GOLD!!! 😳
Unfortunately this doesn’t seem to apply to publishers or developers that don’t have a landing page
All this has done is taught me not to BUY Ubisoft games.
I learnt that over a decade ago.
Don’t buy a Ubisoft, EA, or frankly any big publisher game.
I wouldn’t trust CDPR so easily yet after how diabolical the launch of CP2077 was.
The launch was terrible, but there are some things that keep them apart from the rest of terrible launches.
Cyberpunk 2077 was a really ambitious game, with a lot of new mechanics and incredible graphics. Beasts like that are really difficult to optimize for a large range of computers with different specs, so at first it ran poorly on some.
The most notably buggy release was the PS4 one. And rightfully so. They were trying to run a truly next gen game on a console which was more than a decade old. They not only had to optimize the game, but they basically made a completely different game, with different assets and engines, which was really difficult to do. Still, it was too much for the console, especially old PS4s that were full of dust or had old fans and were overheating.
Another important fact is that users were also pressuring CDPR into releasing Cyberpunk 2077. It was delayed at least once (maybe twice, I don’t remember), and people wanted to play the game. They probably had to choose between delaying it another time or releasing it without polishing it that much.
I believe it was Cyberpunk 2077 that started the trend of “release now fix later” games. However, I don’t think they really did it on purpose. The game was too ambitious for its own good, and having to develop, optimize and test two basically different versions of it was too big of a task for a studio that in today’s terms wasn’t even that big. The rest of the AAA producers just realized that CDPR still won loads of money at launch, and decided to release incomplete games on purpose, after seeing that CDPR could make profits that way.
But must importantly, CDPR did an amazing job at fixing the game, unlike many other studios releasing broken AAAs. They optimized the code, fixed most of the bugs, improved the AI massively and made the game really stable, to the point where I’ve seen it running at 40 FPS on 10+ year old overheating laptops. Even though it took a while, they still delivered the game they promised to their buyers.
I would argue No Man’s Sky started the trend of “release now fix later” but I suppose they are not a big AAA studio. I suppose CDPR wasn’t really considered as AAA until the release of Witcher 3.
You guys don’t have good long-term memory.
Thanks for providing a lot of insight to the conversation.
Cyberpunk 2077 was a really ambitious game, with a lot of new mechanics and incredible graphics. Beasts like that are really difficult to optimize for a large range of computers with different specs, so at first it ran poorly on some.
What about all the other “Ambitious games” that we’ve had over the years that come out just fine? A game being ambitious does not excuse a company releasing the game in what is blatantly an unfinished state. This isn’t the case of a game having a few performance hiccups here and there but rather egregious bugs and severe performance issues across the board. This is stuff that is all over youtube, reddit, twitter and so on. It’s pretty well documented how bad the game was.
The most notably buggy release was the PS4 one. And rightfully so. They were trying to run a truly next gen game on a console which was more than a decade old. They not only had to optimize the game, but they basically made a completely different game, with different assets and engines, which was really difficult to do. Still, it was too much for the console, especially old PS4s that were full of dust or had old fans and were overheating.
Again, this really isn’t an excuse. They had the power the can the next gen versions of the game if it was so difficult to pull off. They also had the power to delay the game in order to make sure that it was ready for launch. They could have done so many things such that the last gen versions of the day would either never see the light of day or be ready for launch. CDPR are a big enough studio to pull something like this off. They’re not a small indie studio.
Another important fact is that users were also pressuring CDPR into releasing Cyberpunk 2077. It was delayed at least once (maybe twice, I don’t remember), and people wanted to play the game. They probably had to choose between delaying it another time or releasing it without polishing it that much.
Yes, there may have been pressure. But no, the consumer base does not have anywhere near enough power over corporations like you’re trying to imply. Games aren’t just released early because “Oh no the consumers are getting angy”. Though once again this was their fault due to them giving the consumer a completely unrealistic initial release date that they obviously could not hit, considering the absolute state of the game at launch.
The most likely explanation is that they were simply trying to get the game out as soon as possible to cash in and they absolutely did not want to miss a major sales period such as Christmas. They were simply trying to drop a minimal viable product with plans to fix it later. Turns out they dropped a less than minimally viable product in their rush to make some dosh. Knowingly too if you look into the allegations that I’ll link later.
I believe it was Cyberpunk 2077 that started the trend of “release now fix later” games.
No. “Release broken fix later” has been a thing for maybe the last decade. Do people not remember shitshows like AC:Unity? Cyberpunk is most definitely not the first game to be “Release broken, fix later”.
However, I don’t think they really did it on purpose.
I don’t think it was dropped broken on purpose. But I do think it was an attempt to drop the usual bare minimum product. Just so happens that they miscalculated and dropped something less than minimal. It’s still gross incompetence and shows the consumer they’re more than willing to drop something bare minimum with the promise of fixing it later. Rather than dropping a complete game.
The game was too ambitious for its own good, and having to develop, optimize and test two basically different versions of it was too big of a task for a studio that in today’s terms wasn’t even that big.
Again, not an excuse. They’re a massive studio, big enough to have people that know how to plan a project like this, people that understand their limitations and what is or isn’t achievable. It’s standard project planning practice.
But even then there are allegations that people in the company were aware that the game was not ready to launch.
And yet they still dropped the game.
There is no excuse for the launch of CP2077.
The rest of the AAA producers just realized that CDPR still won loads of money at launch, and decided to release incomplete games on purpose, after seeing that CDPR could make profits that way.
The industry learned this about a decade ago. We’ve been plagued by half baked launched for so long at this point that you don’t have to go far to find out about it.
But must importantly, CDPR did an amazing job at fixing the game, unlike many other studios releasing broken AAAs.
In this case I think it’s less fixing the game and more finishing the development of the game, all things considered. The thing they should have done before releasing the game as if it was a finished product when, in fact, it clearly wasn’t.
There’s fixing a game and there’s what CDPR had to do to CP2077.
Yes, a lot of companies don’t fix their games. But at the same time most of these companies don’t release their games in such a state that they start getting into legal trouble over the launch of their game.
https://www.nme.com/news/cyberpunk-2077-investigated-polish-consumer-protection-agency-2855205
Cyberpunk was such a massive disaster that they didn’t really have much choice other than to finish working on their game. To repair the massive hit to their PR as well as other issues such as the class action and the whole debacle with Sony kicking the game of the PS Store.
Even though it took a while, they still delivered the game they promised to their buyers.
Yes, it’s good that they stuck with the game and did more than the bare minimum to bring it to a better state. But it’s not exactly something to praise them over. It took them ~2 years to bring the game to a state that it should have been in at launch. Instead of launching the game in a finished state, they knowingly dropped the game in an unfinished state. They also put out a review embargo preventing reviewers from informing the consumer about said issues, they actively worked to mislead the consumer about the state of their game.
What CDPR did is absolutely not excusable under any circumstances.
Their next projects should absolutely be scrutinised until they prove that they have learned from their mistakes.
I believe it was Cyberpunk 2077 that started the trend of “release now fix later” games.
Hardly. That’s been a thing for a while now.
Decades
I think release then fix became common as soon as internet distribution became practical
Back when everything was on physical media the releases were more polished
Good on ya. Don’t BUY them.
Fully agree with it, but they’re still extremely popular, and people will gladly keep handing over their money.
For me, I say “Ok” to them wanting us to get used to not owning our content - followed with “Then I’ll pay rental prices. Which means I’m not buying at $60+ dollars, if all I get to do is rent it then I’ll pay <$15 going forward.”
Alternatively: 🏴☠️
Do what you want cause a pirate is free, you are a pirate! ☠
I wonder how long it’d take until they take down STEEP. I suppose it’s even less popular than The Crew, but I liked it that much I’d pay once more if someone would keep it alive after Ubi does the Ubi thing. Extreme sports are rarely portrayed in games, and for me it would be a huge loss even though I feel like I enjoyed every penny I spent at least thrice.
