The poll is over, and the result is clear:
#FireFox users have very little interest for Chatbot integration into their browser.
I am very much aware that the people, who voted in this poll are hardly a representative sample, but more than 2.4K people is a better size than many “professional” opinion polls.
@mozilla & @firefox should take people, who actually care about their #browser choice, seriously.
I still seriously believe that #Mozilla’s fate matters,
https://berlin.social/@mina/113102817500429735
1/3
I can’t wait for other browser engine to caught up with Firefox
I mean, I don’t have anything against the chatbot feature, but this is coming before the tab group functionality…
Presumably this one’s less work, so even with them being worked on at the same time, no real reason to hold back the one that’s done sooner. But apparently you can try out tab groups already: https://lemmy.ml/post/20000489
I used to always have a ChatGPT tab pinned, so I wouldn’t mind. That said, the integration is just plain terrible. To be more precise, the whole experience with the sidebar is terrible. Why can I only have one and not even choose the default one? I need two clicks to get to the assistant, which is one more than just pinning a tab…
In Brave, the integration is so much better. They have a dedicated button (that you can also disable iirc), that opens a sidebar with only the chatbot. Moreover, you can choose from a bunch of models or link your own. You are not constantly at risk of accidentally sending something to it when selecting text, because neither is “AI” the top option in context menus, nor is one opening automatically. AI doesn’t appear in search. And it can even do more (e.g. “summarize this entire page”), while there is also no need to log in.
In short: This seems not thought through at all. And if it was, maybe the reactions would be less negative.
as being a prominent and established way of accessing the internet without using a product owned by one of three three tech giants.
No niche browser can play the same role.
To me, hopping onto a running train doesn’t seem to be the way to go when it comes to creating and keeping trust:
People, who think that cars are a terrible way of getting people around in cities, don’t want “another Tesla”, they want a good bicycle.
Here we have a problem, common to many non-profits:
Fake Professionalism!
I don’t believe that CEOs, who demand a 7 digit salary, have the ability to understand the soul and heart of a collective of people (in the case of many #FOSS projects: some of the world’s most skilled and talented programmers), who donate lots of their time and energy for a project they believe in, and hence lack the credibility and skills necessary for making them thrive in the long term.
Firefox’s ever falling market share proves that.
3/3
If I want to use a chatbot, I’ll access a website that provides one.
My browser is supposed to be a program that lets me access the internet, and nothing else.Or I’ll have one installed as a separate app, which will have access to data on my system.
So either it’s a separate app, or it’s a website. I don’t see a need for my browser to be that app.
And if I really really really wanted one in my browser (which I don’t but for the sake of argument) I’ll look for an add-on.
Same reason I don’t want my browser to filter or ban my content but I totally use unlock origin.
Couldn’t be more accurate.
What Firefox provides here:
A connector to LLM providers. Accelerators (context menu options).From a coding perspective, this should ideally be a very lightweight functionality.
This feature is very analogous to options to add a search engine, and also to provide accelerators via context menu.
While it can be done via third-party or Official Mozilla add-ons, but (to me) it still makes sense to have it part of the product.
Eventhough I am not pro chatbot, such a poll is unfortunately completely worthless. Only random samples (or at least representative ones) allow to say something about a group.
If we go into an AI fanboy forum and ask the same question, we may find 3000 people saying the exact opposite. It just means nothing whatsoever.
Yes and no.
Obviously, the people questioned here, are not representative for the entire FF user community.
However: The Fediverse at large is a community of mostly tech-savvy people, who do care about independence from major corporations.
These are, in fact, also the people who are the core users and developers of FOSS software.
Whilst the exact percentage means nothing, the tendency is so clear that it should, at least, be taken into consideration.
Did you read part 2 & 3?
https://johnmjennings.com/an-important-lesson-from-bullet-holes-in-planes/
The responses needs to be contain representation at least equally to non Firefox people who no longer care to answer a poll about a product that they don’t use. Why? Only current users are going to answer the poll, not the people with the cuts and pain that forced them back to Chrome or safari. Asking survivors how to reinforce survival actually doesn’t solve for why do many people off board Firefox.
Frankly you should ask people like my 60-70yo parents why chrome not Firefox. You’ll learn more from that than the corrected responses of people who loudly have preferences but at the end of the day would stay either way. My parents tried Firefox, but then left it. Although they only tried from insistence from their son.
PS: I agree with the poll. I don’t want a chat bot either. If I did, I’d install a plugin that integrates once of my own choosing. Given the availability, privacy, and ease of lmstudio I’d rather leave it in its own place outside the browser and network. I don’t know how those like my parents feel about a bot that can probably answer their questions. I also doubt they care. Maybe it would help them ask questions they’re too embarrassed to ask friends and family for. Usually how to questions they’ve asked dozens of times. But that’s super dangerous.
100%. I feel like the broad fediverse community is not a fan of generative AI
Does that mean they are not representative of the general population…?
The general young population uses a fair amount of LLM services, so yes
There’s also the fact that it’s a false dichotomy.
No shit
Its shocking how out of touch they are
Almost none of the people who are excited about AI know anything about computer science. I say this someone who always encounters idiots claiming my computer science degree will soon be obsolete because of AI… lol
I get this in penetration testing too.
The AI has never successfully hacked (technically it’s not hacking because it’s authorized but you get my point) any system of even moderate complexity. That doesn’t mean the system is secure it just means the AI isn’t good at it.
The main issue is it’s not good at “if X therefore Y kind of thinking”, It may very well successfully identify a system as having a particular type of architecture but then it doesn’t follow through with the connotations of that.
I may not have to write all my own reports anymore, but I’m still going to have to do the job.
Asking mastodon users whether they’d choose AI over Privacy is like asking Elon Musk if he’d rather end poverty or buy another mega yacht.
As the “tech guy” who my family turns to for advice, I do not have a single family member other than my younger brother who has any interest in AI-assistance. My brother wants it to cheat in school.
As the tech guy
My parents really like it - they like that they can say what they want to say and get it formatted for an email
I don’t think you thought this one through!
To be the guy known for ending poverty for all time, having statues in every park on the planet? Or just another boat to park in your mega-garage of boats?
Easy choice.
Yeah, I dunno about that considering he promised to end world hunger if the UN could show him how the money was used. They did and he essentially told them to fuck off and donated it to himself instead: https://truthout.org/articles/musk-pledged-6b-to-solve-world-hunger-but-gave-it-to-his-own-foundation-instead/
We’re talking about two different things here.
Actually trying to end world hunger vs pushing a button and having it happen. The former is really hard and probably way beyond the means of any individual, no matter how wealthy. The fact that Elon promised to do it is only evidence of his extreme ego, not his ability nor his ethics (which his donation to himself calls into question).
If he could push a button and end world poverty at a nominal cost of $xxx billion, I think he would do it. But to actually put in the work over a lifelong project which has a high potential to fail? I don’t for a second believe he’s capable of that. But who is?
He did not have to provide lifelong project and work on it. He just needed to donate his money and people in UN would have worked with that money. Even if it didn’t work, he’d still have done a real great job by donating that much. And maybe we could have learn money is not the solution and we need to change approach.
Can this poll be considered official ? I clicked the link and it looks like a Twitter poll or something.
Of course, it’s not official.
I made this poll, as just a normal Fedi user.
It got more attention than I had anticipated, though.
This post is confusing because I recently did take an official Firefox poll involving AI features (and others).
I’m sorry.
It was certainly never my intention to impose myself like an official channel or something like that.
I still welcome a debate here.
Why not just PWA to side bar extension support? If users want that side bar to a chatbot. Boom easy. If they don’t or any other option its there too.
If they really want to support local ai specifically focus on the web3 API stuff for it.
Just be a web browser dammit lol
Mozilla is desperate for any cash influx, AI in a browser is a hot sounding thing, right now. Perhaps they also hope they can leverage it for extra income.
I run a Nightly on one of my machines and it was weird seeing the option and I hope it does not make it or that it gets removed.
It’s just a plain integration with 3rd-party or self-hosted LLM service.
I’m not sure if Mozilla will make money from this feature in any way.
Have you read anything about it anywhere?
Maybe they can offer a LLM router and privacy proxy service like they do with VPNs?
Not who you asked speculating.
I mean I’m desperate for them to get a cash influx too, just not really sure how this does that. Maybe set up for another preferred default deal like they have with Google? Maybe privacy focused option as SaaS offering like they do with their VPN, but you ahead of the curve instead after VPNs became so common you trip over them.
I do not know either. But with the recent Google, Anti-Trust ruling, there is a chance the Courts could force Google to break the deal they have with Mozilla in the future. I assume Google will appeal, but if that goes, so does 80-85% of Mozilla’s income. Selling Mullvad’s VPN is not going to cut it, so maybe they think they can cash in with “AI” somehow. Since you are right, maybe the best VPN’s aren’t dirt cheap but they are certainly not expensive in most Western countries. Besides, most users do not use VPNs. As of 2023, only about 31-33% of all internet users do.
please for the love of god almighty dont ad a chatbot or any other kind of gipity! even if one disregards all the concerns about privacy, software bloat and energy usage (climate change), one has to remember the purpose of firefox, or any other browser for that matter: loading websites. nothing more nothing less.
computer scientists: we have invented a virtual dumbass who is constantly wrong
tech CEOs: let’s add it to every product
Borrowed from here
Firefox user here: Fuck no I don’t want a chatbot built into my browser.
You are definitely not alone!
We want lighter and faster browsers that load up less features, block all unnecessary data collection and spying and java scripts, consume less hardware resources, and don’t choke and heat up 8-gb ram laptops just because I openned 1 tab.
I don’t want Siri in my internet. I don’t even like it when it automatically searches and returns suggetions for mere typing anything in address bar. If I wanted a chatbot, I know how to visit chatgpt or any site myself.
It’s just an integration with LLM services and not AI baked-in the browser code. You can even self-host any such service (Ollama) and integrate Firefox with it. That will make sure your query is not leaving your network.
Just a minor nit pick but it’s JavaScript, not Java Scripts (javascript and Java are massively different things).
Also blocking JavaScript on the web in 2024 is really not practical. Nothing will really work without it.
You used to be able to run Java in the web, I remember the pain of applets.
