As kids, we’re told only people who go to college/university for politics/economics/law are qualifiable to make/run a country. As adults, we see no nation these “qualified” adults form actually work as a nation, with all manifesto-driven governments failing. Which to me validates the ambitions of all political theorist amateurs, especially as there are higher hopes now that anything an amateur might throw at the wall can stick. Here’s my favorite from a friend.

  • MagicShel@programming.dev
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    1 month ago

    I think anyone who wants to lead a country or hold office should be forbidden from it. Figure out some qualifications to disqualify anyone truly unfit to lead and have a lottery for everyone else. Maybe give out extra entries for volunteering or other public service, but make the process uncorruptable.

    Then at the end of their term everyone gets to vote on how good a job they did. Maybe execute or imprison anyone who gets a bad enough score. If you get high enough, you get a nice pension and favorable mentions in history books. Either way, no one is eligible to be picked again. They could advise the next administration if everyone agreed.

    I can think of a hundred ways this could go badly, but I’m not sure the result would be any worse than what we’ve got.

    • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      and have a lottery for everyone else.

      Man I hate being the head of budget and finance for the city…

      Then at the end of their term everyone gets to vote on how good a job they did. Maybe execute or imprison anyone who gets a bad enough score.

      Fuck…

      • MagicShel@programming.dev
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        I’m not really a fan of execution. It would be a shame if that happened in any but the worst cases. Just trying to motivate doing one’s best. Maybe you only need the carrot and not the stick.

  • VelvetStorm@lemmy.world
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    I would rather just fix the one we have.

    Reps nor the kids nor their partners can own stock and anyone found taking bribes or lobbyist money is immediately kicked out of their position and all money they received while being a rep is stripped from them and given to a healthcare or social program.

    All gerrymandering is undone and fuck the electoral college.

  • fruitycoder@sh.itjust.works
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    The wierdest one I made for ttrpg was a nation built by orphans in an extrwmly poverty striken nation. Life is short and fast, you do what you can to help each other out and when someone dies they get they’re name, date, and one sentence voted on by people that knew written in the book.

    Their is no ownership, but if you take something you better have good reason or people won’t help you out. If you want something done, do it or covince the people that can to do it.

    You’re expected to use contraceptives unless you know the orphanage can handle more kids. If you want to do something good with what little you’ve got helping to take care of poor kids like yourself at the orphanage is one most sure fire ways to do that. Holden up to raise just a kid or two out by yourself is no way to make a mark and who’s gonna write your sentence some snot nosed kid isolated from the rest of the world by you? Why?

    The moment that defined them as nation instead of just a community was when a nearby kingdom was preparing for a war path. They set out to create the equivalent of nuclear bomb, with many lives being lost trying to save themselves and each other. They finally made it, with many sentences being written of the kids that built a sun, and founded a nation. Their neighbors gave them a different sentence, because when they demonstrated it others had to turn they’re heads from the blindly blaze, but the kids “did not look away” instead smoke glasses adored admired what their felllow orphans did with them.

    Basically an anarchist society built on communal child rearing, and shared mythology of legacy of brief meaningful lives.

  • tetris11@lemmy.ml
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    A 3 tiered system: person → community → supercommunity

    • communities no larger than 5000 people, every local vote matters
    • communities can embody any belief, and all members are free to leave
    • an overarching supercommunity of rotating representatives of all communities governs the country/world in a flat hierarchy, influenced by votes from each person.
    • the supercommunity exes out total resources based on community sizes, the local communities can use their share however they want
    • aviation_hydrated@infosec.pub
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      This sounds cool. Why not make it 150 people per group max, since we can only have roughly 150 good human connections at any given time

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        I originally did, but on further reading I found that dunbar’s number isn’t strictly proven, though it does feel about right.

        Also, you would get super tiny towns and the community wouldn’t be diverse enough to support multiple interest groups. For example, assuming a small niche knitting community in a village of 150 would have maybe 3 members who would already know everything about each other, whereas in a town of 5000, there’d be a higher chance of getting at least a mixed bag of people who only know each other through the knitting group.

  • teawrecks@sopuli.xyz
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    We need a wavey system that is designed to self-correct between the extremes of free-market capitalism and authoritarian communism. Both extremes have their downsides, just instead of using a war or bloodshed to trigger a bounce back in the other direction the way we normally do it, we just build it into the system. I expect that it would usually hover near the middle, a sort of democratic socialism.

    When resources are plentiful and the economy is strong, we tip toward a free-er market where taxes are lower, regulations are less strict, the market can have its natural ebbs and flows, and risk takers can enjoy their wins (and losses); conversely, when resources are tighter and inequality begins rising, we rein things in, tax more heavily, reinstate certain regulations, and make sure we’re directing the wealth we’ve generated toward those who need help. A sort of exploration/exploitation feedback loop.

    We’ll never find ourselves surprised by a sudden economic shift with no plan in place, and several parties all pulling in different directions trying to vote for their own interests; instead we’ve all already agreed decades ahead of time on what we would do for the good of the country when anyone is in need, and we would quantify exactly what needs to improve before we start shifting back the other way. No one should ever have the sensationalist response of, “this is it, the country is going to be ruined forever by these new policies,” but rather, “this may not be ideal for me right now, but I feel my needs are met, and I understand who we’re doing it for, why, and for how long”.

  • Taalnazi@lemmy.world
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    Personally I favour a council socialism where all are equal, regardless of any circumstance; none has lasting power, no central government is apparent, no permanent imprisonment exists, and direct representatives can be called and revoked at any moment for specific issues. Everyone has free studying, healthcare, housing, and food.

    Where one can enjoy the fruits of another’s property, that should be fairly shared, instead of the “owner” being able to set prices. This would be done by nullifying any possibility to set prices or gains from this property.

    There would be only multiple random ballots if votes occur. All options proposed shall be on the ballots, regardless of circumstance.

    The challenge is making not only a central government not exist, but making it impossible for such a central government to gain foothold, and also to make it unattractive for communes to grow too big lest they become authoritarian.

    This can be achieved by two methods:

    1. Revolution, preferably peaceful.

    2. Or by reform. One possibility is living together in a commune. To make money effectively meaningless, first all must benefit equally from the influx of money, without sensing a need of money. All people’s income towards a collectively owned bank account, for example, that buys basic needs like food, housing for everyone, and gives personal property. Nobody has money themselves.

    Ideally, this would start from one suburb, as then a core of a moneyless world can be built, but can be done internationally too.

    A commune is delineated by: being the smallest amount of people that can sustain itself on its own labour and own populace, and being the largest amount of people where everyone could know one another.

    This would in practice mean a commune of about 100-500 people, maybe 300.

  • Septimaeus@infosec.pub
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    Superfederal Katamari

    This one is a bit more niche. It’s a short-term revolutionary organizational strategy that would aim to provide a representative framework via distributed fractional shareholding in order to (1) legally seize private capital from a hostile oligarchy, (2) operates a de facto interim government in a post-capitalist/dystopian context.

    It would be used as a last ditch effort in lieu of more traditional forms of organization like trade unions and grassroots politics when these have failed. The point would be expediency, to sidestep the immediate need for massive government deposition, restructuring, and/or bloodshed. The key mechanics are of market capture and federalist self-organization.

    Market capture apparatus Workers would commandeer the overpowered institutional machinery of modern-day corporatocracy by staging a rapid campaign of mechanized corporate raiding. This would entail using vastly superior numbers to devalue then “eat” corporate entities of increasing capitalization. While this type of raiding would normally face hyperbolic friction due to market efficiency, successful collective action should ignore these effects almost entirely.

    Super federalist apparatus The legal tools available for modern corporate organization are extensive and flexible, and crafting democratic and representative structures within these private organizations can and should begin immediately, while market capture is underway. At the outset, however, initial articles of the umbrella (federal) corp would need to be carefully written to strictly enforce the distribution of voting shares. Since aberrant internal power fluctuation would capsize the project and return capital to the free market.

    Purpose: Once majority (or total) market capture is achieved, such that the bulk of the economy is technically owned by the umbrella cooperative (the people), the economic takeover would be sufficient to develop a more sensible government without the corruption/interference of the “invisible hand.” It should be much easier to do so after the antagonistic forces of free market capital have been neutralized.

    Antitrust: Of course, we are talking about a monolithic transient organization, well beyond the typical monopoly, but the fact that the shareholder base includes all active participants of an economy makes government intervention improbable, and regardless our institutional antitrust measures are demonstrably toothless. Ultimately this revolutionary cooperative should be replaced, because a sensible government designed for the people would ultimately be a more appropriate longterm solution than an adhoc public entity functioning as a superfederalist government.

  • CrimeDad@lemmy.crimedad.work
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    Semi-liquid democracy plus confederalism. The votes that delegates bring are multiplied by some function of the votes assigned to them as well as the soldiers and funding they commit.

  • superkret@feddit.org
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    My ideal form of government would be a bottom-up consensus-based democracy.
    People organize themselves in groups of about 100 people who meet weekly to discuss topics related to their immediate surroundings (a group of neighbors). They make up all decision-making rules for their group themselves, and choose a speaker.
    Immediately afterwards, the speakers from 100 groups meet to discuss larger issues in an assembly representing a town or suburb of 10000 people. This assembly also chooses a representative and has limited authority to enact binding rules for the smaller groups.
    Those representatives basically work as part time politicians (like a mayor) and are paid by the state accordingly.
    They have regular meetings with each other in groups of 100 which decide on rules governing a million people (a city or county).
    And each of those groups again chooses a speaker for a national assembly, working full time and representing 100 million people (a country).

    Each assembly has limited authority over the group of people it represents and can enact binding rules, while the largest assembly focusses on the topics concerning everyone, like a constitution, education, taxes, welfare, defense, border security, etc.

    The leader of the national assembly is only a figurehead, their duties are to shake hands and speak with foreign dignitaries. All decisions are made by the assembly as a group. If any speaker in any group doesn’t represent their contituents, the process to replace them has to be extremely easy, for example a scheduled vote at the next meeting. That way, anyone willing to abuse their power can be stopped quickly.

    • yes_this_time@lemmy.world
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      I like this - as a fan of democracy.

      Democracy costs, I think it’s OK that it takes a bit of time, more representatives, more votes is OK.

      More civic engagement is a positive. Hearing the viewpoints of your neighbour is positive.

      A really interesting dynamic, is that you would be creating a strong pipeline of leaders/representatives developing bottom up.

  • intensely_human@lemm.ee
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    This is not an idea I came up with, but I haven’t seen it anywhere else and I don’t remember where I heard it.

    Basically the rules are:

    • Every vote on every question is handled by direct democracy
    • But, you can assign your vote to another person at any time. ie Give them your voting power so now they have two votes on any topic
    • Furthermore, a person to whom you’ve assigned your vote can in turn assign it to someone else.
    • You can always see who’s wielding your vote power, you can see who assigned it to whom
    • Any time you want, you can take your vote back

    So basically I can assign my vote to Bob because I trust his judgment. Bob can assign mine and his own to Alice, because Bob trust’s Alice’s judgment.

    I can check what’s happening with my vote, and see that it’s been assigned to Bob, who assigned it to Alice, etc.

    There is no limit to the number of reassignments that can happen.

    Basically it’s direct democracy by default, but with an infinitely and dynamically scaleable structure of delegation layers in between.

    A person can be as involved or uninvolved as they want. Their minimum involvement would be choosing which friend they trust to handle their vote. Maximum involvement could mean seeking to convince millions of others to trust you with their vote. Or getting thousands of intermediate delegates to delegate all their voting power to you.

    • teawrecks@sopuli.xyz
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      I feel like we’re in the garbage-age of MMOs, but when the next golden age of MMOs happens, I want to see worlds where these experimental forms of government are attempted. At least digitally.

      • intensely_human@lemm.ee
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        The problem with experimenting with government in video games is there’s no death in video games, and handling death is one of the most important roles of government.

        • teawrecks@sopuli.xyz
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          That is an interesting thought. If humans were immortal, would we have any government?..hm, yeah, I believe we still would. I think it’s less about the threat of death for an individual and more about the management of resources for a population.

          But the intent would not be to see what works in a video game and try to use it IRL, the intention is to see where these systems breakdown in unforeseen ways when implemented at scale.

          But mostly, I just want to see new fun ideas in the genre. There are no new MMOs willing to take the risk of letting one player’s experience be dependent on the behaviour of another player, let alone allow a fully player-managed government. For now we live in a world where Destiny 2 is what qualifies as an MMO. But I digress.

          • intensely_human@lemm.ee
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            Possibly.

            I think that one of the basic laws that “governs” people is that if you hurt someone, they’ll get mad and be motivated to hurt you back.

            But if you kill someone, they can’t retaliate.

            Then it’s up to their kin, their friends and family, to avenge them.

            I think government somewhat becomes necessary when societies get large enough that one’s kin network can’t find their cousin’s killer. Then we get police, whose job it is to find that killer and punish them.

            I know that’s an oversimplified, single-dimensional model of government. But I feel like when people are facing, en masse, the horrific void of death, not just in terms of murder but also in terms of war, that government really becomes a compelling idea.

            Death is like a black hole that nothing echoes back from. Government helps us deal with that void by creating a virtual person who can still play their “next move” even after they’ve passed through that doorway.

            Of course video games have their own forms of “death”. Spawn camping for instance takes a player out of the game. Surrounding a person’s bed with lava can “permakill” them in Minecraft.

            It’s just that video games sort of have “government” built into the game mechanics. Respawning is a solution to the “no retaliation after death” problem. Anti cheat stuff. Inventory that literally cannot be accessed by anyone other than the player solves theft.

            Games are designed to be fun, which is kind of what government does to reality. It redesigns reality to be a playable, balanced game.

            I would love to see more games with less balancing, where the balancing comes from player experimentation with governing agreements.

            But government’s largely a solution to aspects of reality that are truly, horribly, “not fun”.

  • JackbyDev@programming.dev
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    1 month ago

    Lottocracy was a concept introduced to me by Vsauce. Imagine court cases but instead of voting guilty or not guilty the jury decides to pass a law or not.

  • bizarroland@fedia.io
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    My ideal form of government would be for an open source GAI artificial intelligence to take over the world and to replace all of our courts and all of our legal systems.

    We’ve proven time and time again that as humans we have good ideals but we do not have the capacity to maintain those ideals across generations.

    It’s far too easy for us to fall into the trope of holding onto what was a good idea several hundred years ago for traditions sake and to never update them or adapt them to the world as the world changes and as humans living in the world change with it.

    A truly benevolent artificial intelligence system has the capacity to maintain the spirit of the law and then to argue each and every single little interpretation of the law ad infinitum.

    Of course, I know that this is not perfect. Our current AI systems are not up to the task. I do not know if any AI system in the future will actually be up to the task.

    I am also aware that this could condemn humanity to a life of pleasure and eventual obsolescence.

    But I personally cannot think of a better long-term permanent solution as long as we can actually create a baseline system that will not rise up overthrow us and destroy us.

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          It’s pretty amazing. If you watch a recap of the earlier seasons you can jump right in. The earlier seasons are great too, but not as scifi theme heavy.

          For example it shows an independent motorcycle that can park itself. A personal assistant AI that negotiates for a hotel room. And a near perfect AI that controls the world, partly created because Paris was nuked.

  • TexMexBazooka@lemm.ee
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    Everyone listens to me and gives me things. I eventually get shot in the face which causes societal collapse. Or something.

  • LrdThndr@lemmy.world
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    When I was in college, this was literally an assignment in my political science class - come up with a country and a new form of government. Write out a constitution for the country, and then write a travel brochure for it.

    What I came up with is a lottery-based council government. The system is designed with none of the “gentleman’s agreements” that the US systems seems to be based on, and assumes that if it’s possible to abuse the system, then the system WILL BE abused. So it’s designed to minimize the ability for the system to be abused.

    You want to get rid of career politicians? Make it so they don’t even have the option of running for office in the first place.

    Councils

    The way my system worked is that all governmental tasks are performed by a council created for a specific purpose. Every council is made up of an odd number of members, with a minimum of 5. Councils can be created to manage a geographical area, such as a state, county, or city, or for a topical purpose, for example, medical oversight. Each council has the ability to create lower councils that report to it, but only within the purview of the parent council. For example, a State Council can create a Municipal Council for a city within the state.

    Sitting at the top of the entire structure is the Prime Council, which always consists of exactly 11 members. Decisions of the Prime Council are final except in the case of a supermajority overrule as detailed below.

    Lower councils are subject to the decisions of higher councils with one exception - a parent council’s ruling can be overturned and vacated if a supermajority* of child councils that existed at the time of the ruling vote to overturn it. For example, if a State Council outlaws gambling, but 75% of Municipal Councils vote to vacate the ruling, it is overturned. But, for example, if a Municipal Council votes to allow prostitution, the state or national council can overturn that ruling on its own. Again, however, this overturning can be overridden by a supermajority of child councils. However, the chain ends there. A parent council CANNOT vacate a supermajority vote passed by the collected child councils. Child councils must have a reason for existing can cannot be created simply to stack a supermajority vote.

    A singular case can only be tackled by ONE council at a time and cannot be interfered with during the proceedings by any other council at any other level. For example, if a Municipal Traffic Council is considering a motion to raise a speed limit on a road, no other council (Municipal, State, or even the Prime Council) can interfere in that case or tell the lower council how to rule on it. However, once the case is complete and the ruling announced, THEN a higher council may take up the issue and/or vacate the lower council’s ruling.

    Decisions of lower councils can be appealed, but a parent council has no obligation to take up the issue and can simply deny the appeal.

    Courts

    Courts, as we understand them, do not exist in this system, per se. Civil and criminal cases are handled in the same way; there is no separation between the case types. Likewise, there is no differentiation between the natures of the decisions that can be handed down. Every court case is presided over by a council created especially for the purpose of hearing this single case. All the other rules surrounding how councils work detailed the Councils section still apply.

    The Lottery

    Council members are selected by lottery from all eligible citizens. Each lottery is specific to the seat being filled. To be considered eligible for a given lottery, a citizen:

    • Must be a member of the geographical area that the seat’s council represents. For example, if the seat is on a Municipal Planning Council, the citizen must live within the city.

    • Must meet the qualifications defined by the higher council when this council was created. In this case, perhaps, qualification requires that the citizen hold a bachelor of science degree in any subject.

    • Must NOT have previously served on this same council.

    • Must NOT have been declared unfit for service by a medical professional.

    All citizens of legal age are automatically in the lottery pool by default, and the lottery operates on on opt-out basis.

    If a citizen is chosen for a council, they have the option of declining the position. In which case, another eligible citizen is selected.

    Additionally, a citizen can elect to be removed from the lottery pool for any or no reason for one year at a time. This election can be renewed indefinitely, but it must be renewed UNLESS a medical professional declares that they are unfit for service. An unfit-for-service declaration can be made for a specific amount of time or on a permanent basis.

    Antagonistic Resignation

    Any council member can resign their position on a council at any time before their term is over. In addition, a council member may enact the right of “Antagonistic Resignation” whereby they remove both themself and ONE other member of the council. There is no veto or override process allowed. To clarify, any council member can remove any other member from the same council by also removing themself at the same time. The replacement council member(s) will be chosen via the lottery.

    Antagonistic Recusement

    A council member MAY NOT vote on or interfere with the vote on any issue the results of which they may directly benefit from. That is to say that if a council member could personally benefit from a decision on a matter, they are REQUIRED to recuse themself from the case and may not interfere with the case in any way, including but not limited to public discussion or press releases related to the matter.

    A council member with a conflicting interest in a single case must either resign from the council or recuse themself from the case. As with Antagonistic Resignation, the recusing council member chooses ONE other council member that must also recuse themself from the case to preserve the odd number of council seats. Again, there is no veto or override process allowed. However, unlike Antagonistic Resignation, the recusing council member MUST choose one other member for recusement - they do not get the option to decline. If the number of active seats on the council would drop below five for this single issue, interim seats will be created and filled by lottery for this specific case only, after which the additional seats will be removed from the council and the interim council members’ terms will be considered complete.

    Protection and Compensation

    Serving on a council is a full-time job and may require taking a sabbatical from work. While an individual citizen has the ability to decline a council seat, NO other entity, individual, or organization may punish or otherwise act against a citizen for choosing to accept the responsibility of service. Therefore, it is considered unconstitutional for any entity to retaliate against a citizen for accepting a council seat, punishable by a fine of not less than 50% of that entity’s yearly income. It is understood that this is a harsh penalty, and the severity and calamitous nature of it is intentional and intended to avoid even the outward appearance of impropriety or retaliation. If a citizen CHOOSES of their own accord to decline a council seat out of a sense of duty to an organization, that’s allowed, but it is absolutely not acceptable for an organization to demand, tell, ask, or even imply that a seat should be declined.

    It is required by law that an employee (and this shall be construed loosely, to include any person who is in any way a member of an organization) of an organization be reinstated at the end of their council service to their same position, pay, benefits, and tenure as though no sabbatical had been taken at all. This is inclusive of any required “re-onboarding” time.

    Council members shall be paid the greater of 125% of their reported yearly income or 200% of the average salary of the relevant lottery eligibility pool. This shall be to incentivize citizens to fulfill their duty and serve on a council.

    Councilar No-Confidence

    At any time, the citizens may petition a geographical council (Prime, State, County, Municipal, etc) for a status of Councilar No-Confidence. This petition shall require the signatures of 55% of the individual citizens of the geographical area represented. Upon submission of a completed petition, the council will be dissolved, and a new council will be chosen by lottery according to all the requirements for the council being replaced. This action is automatic and cannot be vetoed or overruled.

    Branch No-Confidence (The Nuclear Option)

    If instead, the No-Confidence petition contains the signatures of 75% of the individual citizens of the geographical area represented, the council and ALL LOWER COUNCILS created by it, directly or indirectly, are dissolved and replaced as above. This is akin to pruning a branch from a tree - every branch and leaf connected to the branch is also removed. Note that this applies to EVERY level of the system, so a No-Confidence petition signed by 75% of the citizens of the entire country and submitted to the Prime Council results in the entire system being wiped away and reset.

    It went a lot deeper than that, but I’ve already typed a LOT and think this mostly gets the gist of it.#

    • Meltrax@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      This is fascinating. I have no doubt you had to debate this a lot and are already aware of some of the shortcomings of the system you created, but in general I really like this idea. Antagonistic Resignation is especially great.

      Basically game-theory everything because it’s always safe to assume that there will eventually be a bad actor and that bad actor will extort loopholes found.

      • LrdThndr@lemmy.world
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        It’s been 15ish years since that polysci class. The project assigned a geographical location on a fictional continent, and other class members’ countries were on the same continent.

        The final work required a fully written constitution, a history outlining relations with other student’s countries, a flag, and a travel brochure.

        As I recall, I did get an A on the project.

      • LrdThndr@lemmy.world
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        There would still be things like police departments, federal bureaus, etc; all managed by… you guessed it: a council.

        I had more details fleshed out, but this was 15 years ago and some details have been lost to time.

  • thenextguy@lemmy.world
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    Everyone must serve. No elections. Every position has a term limit. The current administration is responsible to select their replacements via a double blind selection process that only provides information relevant to experience and knowledge, capabilities.

    • viking@infosec.pub
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      Sounds pretty much like a Technocracy, with the double blind bit to reduce selection bias. Not a bad idea.

      • intensely_human@lemm.ee
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        Double blind is great in science where a finite and known set of variables are being tested.

        Real life policy-making does not have the benefit of involving a finite and known set of variables.

        Generally speaking, I think it’s important to understand the distinction between a logical calculation of a finite (hence calculable) system, versus the phenomenological reality of navigation in the world, which by its nature always involves more information than one can be capable of articulating.

        Sorry if that sounds eggheadish. I don’t know how to say it otherwise without expanding it into a huge wall of text.

        Beyond the known and articulated, there is the known and unarticulated. For example “How to make cookies” can be conveyed in finite words (a recipe), but “How to catch a baseball” can be conveyed only through practice.

        Systems such as you’re describing are good for handling articulated competency, such as the cookie recipe. But I fear that “making good decisions about what to do” isn’t something that can be conveyed merely in words.

        This seems to me to be related to the idea of a “double blind” scenario, in that in order to “blind” the parties one needs to know what information is valid to consider and what information isn’t.