Update: I got banned from hexbear and grad lmao
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Can relate, the people from that instance are bonafide shitrilers, born a century too late to join Hitler’s youth so they join hexbear instead.
ah yes the leftist communist instance
The authoritarian communist instance.
yep
So before I knew shit about the fediverse I was trying to find and instance and I thought “oh neat I’m a leftist,” and created an account on hexbear. I was not prepared at all for that. I didn’t know what a tankie was and I was just legit confused for a minute.
We should just defederate all the ml domains, it would greatly improve the Lemmy experience.
Defederate them for having a different political worldview? Defederation is supposed to be for extreme circumstances. There’s not a problem that .ml communities cause of people breaking the rules here. I’m not saying there aren’t toxic people from lemmy.ml or lemmygrad.ml, there definitely are, but there’s nothing to justify defederation.
If instances just start defederating other instances for hosting a lot of communists then the platform’s gonna fall apart lol.
You can block instances if you don’t like them. You don’t have to decide what the best experience for all us other lemm.ee users is.
Now make this argument in their spaces - see how that goes for you.
Oh wow thats so fucking wrong, lemmy.ml is run by the same admins as lemmygrad, that goes for most mods as well, they are basically red faschism, thats not a different opinion, thats straight up illigal shit in many places and defederation is a great option to filter out illigal stuff. Both .ml instances have regular posts that violate EU laws, especially regarding genocide denial and screaming genocide about things that very obviously are not.
Look, I don’t know the federation rules of ani.social. But our instance, lemm.ee, has defederated literally only 3 instances. IIRC 2 of them are borderline CSAM instances, and the other one is threads.net. The instance intentionally has lenient rules on this stuff – defederation doesn’t happen unless there’s a massive issue of rule-breaking in lemm.ee caused by the other instance (e.g. spam/brigading) which can’t be resolved with diplomacy between admins. Hence defederation being considered the last resort.
Also I’m not so sure about the claim that denying the Uyghur genocide and saying they think certain other things are genocide (don’t know what you’re referring to here though) is illegal in the EU.
We defederated nothing but the .ml bouble including Hexbear defederated us because we apparently have something to do with child porn, NSFW is literally not allowed here…
And genocide denial is illegal in Germany, many other EU countries followed that, but the majority of instances host with Hezner, wich has servers in Germany, so its legally problematic for EU hosted instances. https://www.dw.com/en/germany-criminalizes-denying-war-crimes-genocide/a-63834791
Lemmy.ml also Spams the modlog and have been reported to engage in problematic federation actions. Hexbear is also Brigading a lot and lemmygrad is literally denying the holocaust from time to time.
And genocide denial is illegal in Germany, many other EU countries followed that, but the majority of instances host with Hezner, wich has servers in Germany, so its legally problematic for EU hosted instances. https://www.dw.com/en/germany-criminalizes-denying-war-crimes-genocide/a-63834791
Huh. Well considering the actions of the German government this past year, I doubt they’ll be doing much about genocide denial this time around.
This alleged holocaust denial though… you’ve piqued my interest. Lemmygrad, being an extremely communist instance, is almost always vocal about how the Nazis did a lot of genocide. It’d be weird for that to be there without immediately being removed by mods. Do you have any examples or quotes, perchance? I haven’t had a particularly good experience with lemmygrad users on average, but this would definitely take the cake.
As for Hexbear brigading, that actually was apparently an issue for lemm.ee a long time ago. But the admins talked with the hexbear admins and were able to get it resolved. At least, on lemm.ee communities, hexbear users seem to be following the rules – usually it’s lemmy.world users breaking the rules sitewide (usually for transphobia, very recently some prominent users there were promoting pedophilia). But I think lemm.ee doesn’t ban users much regardless unless they’re extraordinarily uncivil and cartoonishly evil. There’s not even a modlog that I can find (pretty weird not to have a mod log).
Lemmygrad doesn’t deny the nazis did the holocaust, no. But they do deny that Jews were systematically killed in WW2 by the Soviet Union. They do deny that the Soviet Union assisted Nazi Germany in gathering Jews.
There is evidence of this across this community, which you may search for at your leisure.
Jews were systematically killed in WW2 by the Soviet Union
This is double genocide theory, and it’s a form of holocaust denial.
Oh wow no thanks blocked.
…? I’m confused. Is ani.social a Nazi/anti-Palestine instance? I’ve had a total of 2 interactions with people from there mentioning Germany denying Israeli war crimes, and both of those people happened to be pro-ethnostate and immediately went the genocide denial route. I guess weebs on Lemmy are just as conservative as weebs on Reddit or something
Edit: Oh, it’s mostly porn/erotic content and talking about erotic content in anime… so it’s literally just the Reddit anime communities, but on the fediverse. Welp, that’s enough Lemmy for today
I restored your comments. No idea why they were removed as they aren’t in the modlog. Did your instance admins remove them for some reason?
It’s not about an ideology. It’s that they make it their identity. If someone founded a server and community for lemmy.fascists I wouldn’t blame a lot of people for not wanting to Federate with it as well.
While they like to talk to talk. They’ll do anything but walk the walk. Ml governments have been some of the most brutal and repressive in existence. And this is not a defense of anyone else. just a critique of them. There’s plenty of criticism to go around. However Leninist are particularly hypocritical, bad faith, and specifically not worth engaging with when it bleeds over into every other discussion.
I completely get the stance you have. I just can’t agree with the view that the instances are as bad as fascist instances. I mean some of the communities there definitely express heinous views don’t get me wrong, but they’re a leftist instance with many different types of leftism. There’s the extremist “tankie” communities (one might call them) with all the Russian and North Korean apologia (yes, internet MLs think North Korea is free and democratic), then there’s most of the rest of the instance with well-adjusted but very leftist views. This goes for .ml and hexbear but, I haven’t seen much of anything other than authoritarian communism on lemmygrad so I can’t say anything positive about that.
I think most instances have their extremely problematic areas that those admins don’t see as problems, and we have to weigh whether those problems are serious enough to cause major problems for lemm.ee. Seemingly in our admins’ opinions, and my opinion, hexbear and .ml are easily dealt with by just blocking them. I have seen a ton of cryptofascists and actual pedophiles from some other specific large instances (cough .world), and while I certainly put some blame on the instance admins for catering towards people with those views somewhat, I don’t want to defederate from them. There’s tons of good reason to federate with .world, and tons of good reason to federate with .ml, and with hexbear. They all contribute a lot of non-political stuff to my feed. Hexbear has probably the best trans communities along with blahaj.zone, probably like 1/3 of the posts in my feed are from .ml plus .world.
IMO, since there are a lot of instances that defederate those instances already, the classic use of the Fediverse is to have your account on one of those instances. Or to block the instance if you don’t want to go that far. I go on lemm.ee specifically so I can see all the fediverse has to offer without having to change between a bunch of different accounts because of defederation. I don’t want the LGBT and leftist communities I participate in to be blocked because a bunch of guys in the instance have really bad opinions. Unless they’re spreading abuse content or something, I’d probably rather be able to see the instance.
Sorry for the wall of text, but defederation is an important topic that affects everyone on the site, I think it should have a lot of elaboration.
Bro defending Redfash…
So let me get this straight:
You think it’s okay that Israelis colonized Palestine. You think it’s okay that they’ve displaced and murdered millions throughout their entire existence, taken hundreds of Arab towns and cities and renamed them with Hebrew names. You decry anyone pointing out that Israel does this stuff as ‘hate’. On top of that, you’ve argued that slurs are okay, and that it’s “woke” to say slurs are bad. You’re literally a modern Nazi cosplaying as a leftist.
But somehow, you have the resolve to crawl around my comments, trying to get your ego back apparently, and you do the mental gymnastics to conclude that “defederation is reserved for extreme cases” is equivalent to ‘defending redfash’. That’s creepy. What is wrong with you, you freak? Why do you want to defend indiscriminately blowing up civilians, women, children so badly? Because they’re the wrong ethnicity? Do you really think anyone’s going to believe you calling anti-genocide protestors “Nazis” while you support the people who contribute to Israel’s war crimes and prop up this ethnostate?
How do you suppose you get to label other people fascists, you fascist? Why don’t you have any introspection?
Let me get this straight. You are a nazi and are unable to read and understand texts pretty dam fucked up for a German “linguist”
Oh and you are constantly arguing against strawmans but thats probably because you are falling exactly under the definition of woke i gave you and now you are mad about it. Woke Nazi.
Keep it to the other comment chain you two.
Jesus you are weird
The administration and leadership alone is bad. Fascists have less/non controversial views too. Is that an actual argument for them?
They aren’t leftist in any meaningful sense. They’re authoritarian first. Anything else is an afterthought. An anarchist or anarco-communist like myself calling out the ML state and the vanguard party for their failures. Would be deemed an enemy of the state. Imprisoned, killed, or if I was lucky. Just have my life ruined.
There’s plenty of Anarchist and non-ML communities on .ml and hexbear. The hardcore Maoist stuff doesn’t apply to most of the communities on .ml. Either way though, the communities they do have isn’t as relevant to federation for lemm.ee since the admins stated they only consider defederation for activities on lemm.ee. Which again, I would say lemmy.world and other instances have had just as much of a problem. That’s relevant because in that case, if we’re defederating .ml/hexbear, logically we should defederate .world.
Every day on this site I see people who are into transphobia (“I don’t believe in trans people” I shit you not is something I’ve seen), Palestinians ethnic cleansing, want to get rid of healthcare, all that Project 2025 stuff. And they’re mostly from lemmy.world and sometimes instances like sh.itjust.works. Their propoganda seems to prove far more consequential on the site, as most people will think you’re a lunatic if you say China is a free and democratic nation, but a lot of people will buy what is now mainstream far-right propoganda and culture war nonsense. Although both of those will tell Americans to not vote for Kamala.
‘Anarchists’ who are plenty okay with authoritarianism.
When reddit was the main alternative and Lemmy.ml was the main server? Sure. Even if both groups are administered by authoritarians. At least nominally leninists have a couple more things that they like to pretend they have in common.
That doesn’t mean the group’s over there were healthy or well established. You have to tiptoe around the egos of those in the in group. And criticizing the flaws of their ideology would get you banned from communities and or the server quickly.
The reason people want to de-Federate with ML and related servers is literally their administration. Not just people on the server. Are there problems with people on world? Absolutely. But I doubt you see rud or any of the admins as part of it and enabling it. Literally in your own words. They’ve kind of been too open and you don’t like some of the people that they have allowed to be on their server. You’re OKAY with cultish authoritarians who pretend to be trans friendly. Till they find some reason to call the person a secret capitalist liberal etc etc etc and ban them. I’d rather be part of a community that would risk letting in a few transphobes etc. Rather than one that cannot take self-reflection or self-criticism without lashing out against those who level it.
I’ve been there, but I mostly just do it anyway. Fuck it, I said what I said. Half the time you don’t even get anything all that cutting, it’s just png salad. Every now and then, you’ll get a coherent response that isn’t a death threat, and those end up being good reads more often than not.
Yeah I don’t think much of it either… They just take offense to something doesn’t even apply to them lol
Eh, more often than not their longer posts are just “actually Stalin/Putin/Mao/Kim dynasty/Trump good because <5 page essay>”
And of course, if you don’t address every single point in that 5 page essay, along with doing all of their required reading, then you’re clearly acting in bad faith and a shitlib and are now going to be dogpiled by 27 other Hexbear users.
“If you do not take tankie.blogspot as a serious source then you are WRONG AND I WIN. I WIN! I WIN! I WIN!”
Bro I had this commie from lemmy.ml post a meme advertising for how great communism was. And I told him how the state was authoritarian and basically didn’t care much about human rights and the millions of people starving to death. I got wall of texted and he got upset when I used wikipedia as a source. I’m sure if I used some news outlet he’d just say that’s western propaganda so I ended up blocking the guy and later the instance.
You made the right choice. It doesn’t matter how you respond, they’ll shift the goalposts and attack you every time.
Nobody on Hexbear is pro Trump, unless they’re saying something like “this thing he said is pretty funny.” Also double genocide theory is a form of holocaust denial and one thats wormed its way into the average person’s beliefs about the Soviet Union and should be called out when its engaged in, whether that person is doing so knowingly or unknowingly.
Apologia is not allowed. Continue, and you’ll be banned.
That’s not apologia, I’m describing pushing back against a well-known conspiracy theory among Holocaust scholars. Here’s a 2017 Jewish Currents article on the topic.
Within the mythology of East European nationalists, particularly but not exclusively in the Baltics and western Ukraine — where there was massive local participation in the actual killing of Jews, usually by shooting at local pits rather than by deportation to faraway camps — the Bogus moral equivalence of the Holocaust has been from the time of the actual massacres the myth that the Jews were all Communists and got what they deserved because Communism was every bit as genocidal as Nazism. Hence what the Jews call the Holocaust is a kind of opposite and equal reaction to the first genocide, the crimes of Communism.
When you say that Stalin was as bad as Hitler, you are participating in this. You can criticize Stalin’s crimes and failures without equating him to Hitler.
I’m new here, I don’t even know what the fediverse is. What does this mean?
YOU WILL SPEAK WHEN SPOKEN TO MOTHERFUCKER
So you’re good now
As Goat has said, this platform (Lemmy) is comprised of instances, some, like Lemmy.world, are general instances, and some have a specific theme or type of content they cater to. There’s one for furry porn, one for regular porn, for example, and one for utterly insufferable Internet communists who make a point of behaving badly in other communities.
behaving badly
I wanna push back on this. The whole point of federation is that people from different communities interact, but when an active community like hexbear predictably has a ton of people leave a comment on a post that reaches their /all page it gets called “brigading” when it’s literally just people using the most basic feature of the website.
Sorry, but no. I’ve seen how they engage with other instances, their strategy is to dogpile on anyone who dares disagree with them, flood the thread with insults and shitty images, and generally behave like poo flinging monkeys. They don’t debate, they don’t actually make a cohesive argument for their beliefs, their entire approach is to use overwhelming force to drown out opposing voices.
They’re a thoroughly awful group of people.
Don’t forget of you yet to defend yourself you get told to go touch grass.
I had a stroke reading this
Seek medical attention.
They went back and fixed it
Except there’s evidence supplied in this community of Hexbear users organising what threads to target specifically.
You’ve been defending tankies a lot. Why?
Really it’s just like subreddits, but with an additional level added on. So each instance has its own culture and rules, and then their own communities within them that may or may not overlap with communities on other instances.
So you might think you’re commenting on a post from lemmy.world/c/politics, which is pretty liberal and mainstream for an American forum, but it’s actually hexbear.net/c/politics, which is quite far left and has very active users, who respond to your comment completely differently.
are there any instances on here that aren’t left?
That probably depends on your Overton window.
Let me rephrase, is there anywhere that isn’t a circlejerk in either direction? I came here hoping it would be like Reddit pre 2016 where most of the main subs would at least have discussion and debate in the comments and not just a bunch of people blindly agreeing with each other.
Tbh, no. The conservative instances immediately devolved into racism and jingoism. The rest of the instances are at least pretty far left of the population as a whole (e.g. world), terminally online leftists, or tankies.
If you want someplace where politics don’t get mentioned in every thread, Mastodon with your own follows picked is the best choice.
They were a few initially but they got chased off the fediverse. I’ve found SJW is very impartial.
the thing about hexbear isn’t just that they’re far left, but that they are violently auth-left, and live in a huge echo-chamber, as most instances defederated from them. plenty of far left people are actually very grounded and human compared to them, see slrpnk.net and the an-soc instances. while they have strong opinions, they won’t immediately wish death upon you if your views clash
auth-left
The political compass is a terrible metric for tracking political currents. Disagree with Hexbear for how aggressively they post, sure, but drop that designation.
yeah, I definitely agree there, not to mention that “authoritarian left” is self contradicting to begin with. It’s a pretty direct two-word description though, I find, and better than just calling them “tankies” which is even more vague
Yeah, super saiyen marx, I wouldn’t call tankies progressive
What you call them is irrelevant, they’ve been at the forefront of progressive causes for as long as they’ve existed.
Welcome my guy
The fediverse is an interconnected community composed of instances. Every website is its own instance that can communicate with other instances
So right now I’m on sh.itjust.works, and you’re on lemmy.world.
The Fediverse is much more than just that. You just described the Lemmy (and kbin?) part of it. The Xitter alternative Mastodon for example is another part of the Fediverse among many others.
Ah, I see you said something controversial, like “Theocracy bad” or “Imperialist capitalist state bad”. The tankies don’t like those positions for some reason.
Bruh I poked the hexbear once when a dude was arguing over exactly how to classify the Uyiger genocide. Something about how “it’s not a genocide, but just an ethnic cleansing” they really didn’t like when I pointed out just how weird of an argument that is. Fascists usually short circuit pretty fast under redicule
oh you spoke to the developers too? haha
it’s not a genocide, but just an ethnic cleansing
Those are synonyms, FFS. 🤦♂️
Dude needs to crack open a dictionary or a thesaurus.
It’s only a genocide if it comes from the state of Germany. Everything else is just sparkling ethnic cleansing. /S
I had one argue “the Soviet space program did amazing things without the benefits of imperialism”, which is a statement I can only ridicule. Then, to prove how not imperialist the Soviet Union was, he proceeded to explain how much imperialism the United States did. Yes, I’m quite aware of how much imperialism the United States did. That’s not the issue here.
I originally joined Lemmy with a lemmy.ml account by mistake. I was arguing with a brainlet who told me the Soviets could not possibly have been bad because they fought the Nazis. When I asked what that meant regarding apartheid USA I got banned from .ml.
You see what makes a Nazi isn’t actually killing millions of people. It’s only killing millions of Russians. The reason why the Nazis are evil is not actually because they are evil but because they went against the Russians.
That’s how many of the Russians see it anyway, and by extension many tankies. The only difference is tankies have to try and sound reasonable to a Western leftist audience.
apartheid USA
What?
I am an idiot, I should have written “segregated.”
If you want the really specific term, it’s Jim Crow, after the Jim Crow laws passed in the south after reconstruction. The effects of Jim Crow reach us today and will for a long time
If you simply choose to embrace the same euphemism for genocide as them and also pretend that having a euphemism excuses the genocide, then you could get along.
All I did was point out how their meme responses were childish and cringy.
Banned.
Pretty sure I’m shadowbanned because I’m over there railing on those CCP husks all the time and they almost never respond.
Most likely
Lol who are you?
There is literally no mention of you in the hexbear modlog
https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/e93ae8e2-4247-418b-856b-6b46a782d3e1.png
Oh weird! I can see and interact with the instance fine now… I wasn’t able for a couple days weirdly
Might’ve been federation issues
some people have multiple accounts.
The OP made this post after making this comment: https://hexbear.net/comment/5242415
Truly is 15 year old edgelord city over there.
they’re trying to revolutionise damnit.
just without the violence, or swearsies or naughty no-no words
Good to see Hexbear hasn’t gotten any less awful.
I would never infringe upon a user’s right to talk about billionaires
I’m somewhat convinced that all the Tankie servers have some unspoken agreement to ban the same dissenters.
I doubt it’s even unspoken.
Never post you bear ass in IncantationUrsine, always make sure you are in MagicBear community where friendly sugar bears updoot and compliment you.
Communists are somewhat like collapsniks. I don’t want to bully or torment them, life kicked their butt already. But tankies, damn they deserve some bullying from time to time for all the stupid shit they say.
I’m fine and usually agree with people who are economically left. I find I usually disagree with people who love state capitalism so much they will excuse whatever human rights abuses occur under it.
Looking at the online places some people lost their faith in liberal democracy. At least in the USA looking at the voting and political system there it really isn’t the most… healthy. So I very much understand the desperation.
In other places it is going strong and no one sane would want to drop it. It merely needs some tweaks and fixes that are a subject of constant battles in the parliament.
This is the problem of us centric internet. Whatever I say it is always taken in the context of America. I got to know so much about that single country out of 195 whether I wanted it or not
And that’s how I wound up banned from hexbear.
They did you a favor.
I’m self banning myself. I’ve started blocking any of their crap that comes up in my feed. Good riddance.
Why not block the whole instance?
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Go on Hexbear
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Post a non-hexbear thing
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Get a comment in my inbox
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Be incredibly mad
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Post another thing on hexbear
:-/
-
thankfully, lemmy world spared me the trouble of having to block the instance myself.
You should do it anyway.
