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- cross-posted to:
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It’s because the western brainpan cannot process more than three pieces of text in view at once.
Man, NGL i greatly prefer the minimal aesthetics of the apps that i use right now. the chinese apps do not look all that different to the banking apps i have to use here and i fucking loathe them, can never get used to them and it just looks ugly.
Yeah but the banking app is cluttered with myriad ways to fleece you rather than things that would be of use to you.
👆👆 This
Over the past several years Alipay and Wechat pay have gone from nowhere to everywhere in Hong Kong, and though I’ve gotten used to them for payments, my West-trained brain just kind of blanks out all of the other stuff in them as visual noise. But when I do open up one of those sub-apps out of idle curiousity, there’s nothing but benefits in there. It was a full year before I tapped on the icon called ‘bill payment’ and found I can use Alipay to pay for literally all my bills - utilities, services, everything except the Western parts of my life like Netflix and Xbox Game Pass. And it’s not like the banking systems’ autopay services where you give up control and let the (London-owned) bank and service decide whether you pay or not - if a subscription service decides you have to sit on hold for an hour to cancel your subscription manually through a phone call, you can just stiff them instead: the app will side with you, and the subscription is de facto cancelled unless they want to explain in small claims court why they have such a user-unfriendly unsubscribe procedure.
Anyway that’s a long-winded way of saying that despite the wild bazaar vibe you get from those apps, they’re also extremely regulated in the public interest. The Government lets Alipay and Wechat make a fortune just by running those platforms on the understanding that if they step even a little out of line and leverage that privilege against the public, they’re done. And that includes transaction fees.
Meanwhile Paypal is streamlined spotlessly but they take a fat chunk in transaction fees compared to the *checks notes* zero transaction fees that I’ve paid on Alipay. No transaction fees ever.
This was really insightful, I liked the concrete examples, thank you!
I am mixed, it depends on what I am trying to do and also if I paid anything for an app.
“Free” apps in the west are just a marketing case-study and trying to funnel me into as many additional purchases as it possibly can. Chinese is maybe an overwhemling amount of information, but often at least more relevant. It also tends to make a lot more sense for somebody who is engaging with mobile devices primarily, rather than as an extension of a home ecosystem (which the video does touch on a bit).
It also makes perfect sense to have a “one size fits all” app approach in an environment that doesn’t need to parcel your attention out over a bunch of different companies.
“Premium” apps that I already bought into, I admit I often prefer the minimalistic style of design more. That could also just be me, I prefer that in the way I decorate and organise most things I do, digitally and in real life.
🤣
It was an interesting video to watch and I can see similarities in user interface design in other parts of the world. I will likely be watching the other videos in the channel. Thank you for sharing.
However, it still feels like a liberal understanding; maybe the youtuber was trying to avoid using the word socialist or aiming for brevity but if that is the case the analysis still feels incomplete.
For example, the idea of user interface design because individuals in China are inherently “collectivist” but why? Saying indviduals choosing design principles that are “collectivist” in their environment and therefore choose this in their phone UIs is a lack of an explanation; this just amounts to a type of a circular logic. What has happened over the past century to promote this “culture” (even if we pretend the presumption is true that design principle aesthetics is homegenised across china)? It appears ironically an individualised take on collectivist culture.
I do agree there are collectivised cultures in socialist nations but if you look at say the special economic zones - there are plenty of chinese liberals in these centres and their preferences for western individualised aesthetics. However what is, let’s say, the culture-system, that promotes collectivism? (Answer: socialism)
It appears that a large portion of analysis from the west considers collectivism as some sort of inherent individual trait belonging to come exotica of peoples rather than maybe a phenonemon borne out of political economic systems and their interactions with other politicsl economies. There is an idealisim it is an individual trait that is more inherent in some ethnicities than others. For example, does India have “collectivised” cultures? And where they do not, why not? I put collectivised in a quotes not because it is not real but because it feels like a western explanation for hordes of others acting in a borg-like manner. We are individual but they are a collective.
Another area that the video explored; the idea that chinese people preferred leapfrogging technology to mobile over desktop. Again, why? What was going on in their material conditions that they could not afford the desktop/laptop to begin with? Again the answer purported is an individualised take; indvidual preferences backed up by a supply-demand explanation.
This is not a comment on the technology provided, in a socialist country all-in-one apps are amazing (in a capitalist country this would just be another monopoly for rentier extraction).
A more dialectical approach would do wonders. My critique is essentially a criticism of orientalism. It should be noted the youtuber concludes that designers watching this should be more empathetic in their design choices for their audience/clients.
I think it’s just phrasing, but I do think she makes the point that collectivism is a cultural aspect. So while she doesn’t use Marxist analysis, I do think it’s close enough to get an average person to at least consider how the culture and environment shapes the way people think and behave. I do think a more materialist analysis would be interesting for sure though.
It was something you said a while ago that led me to write this; regarding the societal/cultural pressures of socialism (I think it was in relation how the same politicians would be progressive under socialism but become reactionary in capitalism). Here these would potentially emphasise the collectivist aspects of various chinese cultures while de-emphasising potentially more destructive individualised and reactionary parts; socialism acting as a sort of cultural sieve.
yeah that’s well put
I stopped watching when she said collectivism. I don’t know if it’s her or she is trying to speak the average westerner but they always talk about other cultures like one would about lab rats in cages.
