So I just discovered c/womensstuff, commented in a thread that took my interest and got a somewhat abusive “eff off” comment from a mod with added sarcasm.
I then saw it’s “women only”. This is the only community I know that bans based on a protected identity of a person, e.g. in the UK, it’s illegal to discriminate based on gender, sexuality, religion etc.
How does everyone feel about this for Lemmy communities?
If people want a respectful space to discuss among themselves I don’t see any good reason to force myself into the conversation. Not every space on the internet (or real life) needs to be a stage for the free marketplace of ideas, especially when you’re talking about already marginalised communities who are easily disenfranchised by many of the kinds of people attracted to that style of space.
Personally, looking at the interaction between yourself and the mod, it reads to me like you was the one who was sarcastic and rude.
Are women considered marginalised communities outside the minds of feminists?
Women have been historically and presently marginalised, yes.
This is a sweepingly broad statement that you’re twisting to your own advantage.
They made a good call to keep you out, lol
Yes
Women are literally forced to carry babies. And that includes DEAD women.
As someone who opposes lots of what feminist theories claim and what some feminist groups preach and do my answer is: Yes, obviously, you have to be a special kind of stupid to not realize that women are marginalized in our society. Next you’ll tell me that outside of black live matter no one thinks blacks are marginalized.
I would agree with you but I don’t think women are marginalised in my society. They may feel as if they are though because they’re generally told they are. I will accept Muslim women are but most who I know actually accept being told what to do and not do and the abuse they receive. Less of the personal insults, huh?
I would agree with you but I don’t think women are marginalised in my society.
Then you don’t agree with me, and you should look closer at your society, it’s easy to overlook how certain groups are marginalized if you’re not part of them. I recommend you read some posts in some women only communities (instead of trying to tell them how they should feel) to see the sort of thing they have to go through.
I get where you’re coming from, on paper our society treats women equally, there are no written rules or outlandish inequalities, and some of what feminist complain is not even real, such as the gender pay gap. However that’s not the same as saying there aren’t any inequalities nor that it’s even comparable. Yes, men do have issues in our society; Yes we need to address those; No, we shouldn’t laugh at me for opening up about their issues; Yes, men can have safe spaces where they talk about their issues without having women judge them for it. And all of that is the same for women, there are lots of ways in which our society treats women as inferior and if you can’t recognize that there’s really nothing else to tell you than “pay more attention”, but there’s no worse blind that those who don’t want to see, so I’m sure there’s nothing I can tell you that will make you stop and listen and look around, talk to your mom, sister, or some women you know and trust, listen to their stories about that time their boss slap their ass or their ex-boyfriend forced himself on them, or even the time the creepy guy started following them around.
Yeah.
I’m fine with it, as a universal rule people shouldn’t be forced to associate with someone if they don’t want to.
Dude. The Internet is a tough place for women. Give us one community to hang out together.
Can you give a real life example of a community banning folks only for these identifiers and not their behavior?
c/womensstuff is punching up, you’re punching down
Imagine you have a chess club.
Every five minutes, someone drops by to sit down at your match, but their drink on the chessboard and starts a friendly and helpful conversation about how you should play lacrosse instead because it is healthier.
You have some patience to inform them that of course exercise is healthy but you also enjoy chess games and it is hard to play while conversing with a stranger no offense okay? When you tell the 16th person to let you play chess in peace that day you are tiny bit harsh so they complain loudly that you all are extremely rude and excluding.
At some point you lock the door.
You are the 7452nd person to come in their door here, okay?
You’re probably one of those “black people are just as racist as white people” clowns.
I think it’s fine. I actually enjoy reading it for the insight.
The internet is very “male” by default. I can accept that women want to, and do, get their own clubs. Why can’t you?
I think it’s nigh impossible to come up with strict rules about these things.
I also think it’s fine that women have spaces that are just for them.
I also think it’s fine that women have spaces that are just for them.
Interesting? Why? So it becomes an echo chamber? Why not make the group private in that case? How about fake women profiles by men?
Why do you feel that you have the automatic right to insert yourself into a conversation that your opinion isn’t wanted in? There’s no issue with the way they’re presenting or moderating their community; they make the rules plain on the sidebar.
How about fake women profiles by men?
Again, why do you assume this is an issue? Most men can simply respect that women would like to have a conversation with other women. Why are you not able to just accept this?
Why do you feel that you have the automatic right to insert yourself into a conversation that your opinion isn’t wanted in?
Your opinion isn’t wanted.
Why are you not able to just accept this?
Tough titties, kid.
literally asks people for their opinions on a community dedicated to asking people their opinions “Your opinion isn’t wanted”
ok buddy 👍
Not only that, but literally directly asked them why immediately beforehand. This is a master class in missing the point.
I’m an afab something for whom these communities always felt a little iffy (they’re very welcome and it’s lovely to not have to hedge what you say as much, but I always felt they were somewhat unfair), but this comments section has helped me understand why it’s unproblematic to have them.
Let me try to phrase my opinion:
It’s unfortunate that gender-exclusive communities exist, but it’s a consequence of deeper societal issues.
Forcing the issue on social networks like Lemmy will actually make it worse, because those groups will feel in danger and want to separate even further.
Being able to access the community in read-only mode is a very good thing, because you’ll be able to gain insight into why they feel the need for a separate space. Read, learn and understand, even if you disagree.
But read, learn, understand what? Do you really think the problem you claim women need the space is because (presumably men, the alleged oppressors) don’t “understand” women and if only they’d take time to read and understand women it would all be ok?
But read, learn, understand what?
Why they feel the need to be separate. What exactly are they afraid of. You’re focusing too much on being “technically correct”. Human emotions don’t work like that.
Humans work generally like this:
- we have a bad experience
- we try to avoid bad experience repeating
Sometimes it leads into coping mechanisms like needing a safe space. Trying to break down that barrier by force will not work, it will only make it stronger. You can hope to be invited in, but that requires understanding.
there are literally so many other communities, why would you wanna go to the only one that doesn’t want you there, if not for trolling?
Frankly I find using public forums like Lemmy a fuckin stupid place for shit like that and make it a point to annoy the mods of such places into banning me should they end up on my feed
don’t want random people who don’t match your in group randomly commenting? don’t use a forum system like Reddit/Lemmy/Etc. with an /all feed you can’t opt out of. there’s plenty of free forum software out there: use that
Edit: wooo, boy. Good on them for excluding you. Your very short comment history is a read.
If they served the best pizza in town, I would join your flight. But all they have to offer is women who want to talk with other women. If you are not a woman, I don’t see what you think you would contribute.
This is so obvious now that you’ve written it, but it never occurred to me. What a great way to phrase this.
You seem like a bit of a dunce but thanks for helping me find a new community!
Feel free to make a positive men’s space on Lemmy explicitly banning hate speech if you’d really like to support and uplift other men :)
So many “marginalised” women throwing insults around like candy. Maybe these people feel they’re marginalised because they already hate men and men avoid them?
You miss the point. A “positive men’s space on Lemmy” would explicitly ban women. not “hate speech”. Maybe you seem like a bit of a dunce?
Holy shit, this guy actually thinks that women marginalize themselves. The mental gymnastics behind that thinking are insane.
Maybe these people feel they’re marginalised because they already hate men and men avoid them?
Spoken like someone marginalized people are right to avoid. Not every community or post requires you to share your thoughts, particularly if you lack the perspective they want to hear from.
It’s one closed door out of an infinity. Move on and don’t worry about it. I don’t knowingly go into black or Christian or women or queer spaces and share my perspectives on their issues. My point of view is represented to those communities incessantly every day. They will be fine without our contributions.
Yes, I’m saying it would be totally okay to hold a space for Lemmy that was explicitly for men, as long as it (like the community you’re referring to) explicitly banned hate speech. Because it’s okay to hold spaces for certain groups sometimes, especially when it’s in order to hold safe positive spaces to connect.
If we had more positive men-only spaces, men would overall be happier and healthier, which would be a win for everyone. Unfortunately, since a lot of spaces online often don’t ban negative or extreme takes, they often just lead to worsening mental health for their members. This isn’t exclusive to men, I’ve seen women’s spaces do the same, which is why I mention they need to be well moderated and ban hate speech, again, like the community you mention here does.
