You guys think that merely walking around in your own time holding up a board and shouting a bit, all focused on the mango puppet instead of the puppet masters, is going to change anything given that there is no single Historical event in the US ever of the lower classes rebelling against and deposit the upper classes (even the Revolution was literally the American plebs led by the American upper class fighting against the English plebs controlled by the English upper class)?!
The murder of the CEO of UnitedHealthcare had more impact, if only temporary because it wasn’t followed by more similar murders.
Even millions of people marching and shouting a bit (and so polite that they do it in their own time) will cause no fear for the elites because that’s in no way a warning that the heads of the elites will soon start getting separated from their shoulders if nothing changes.
You need at the very least a General Strike and/or targetting the economic and propaganda interests of the elites (trashing the TV studios of certain channels or certain newspapers would send a powerful message).
I mean, just notice the impact on police violence of the greatest demonstrations in the US - the George Floyd protests: nothing or even worse than nothing as the pigs have never been this violent.
Murdering ceos didnt do jack shit, real change only happens like this
These protests, while better than nothing, will not produce real change.
Just as the George Floyd protests did not produce real change (Pelosi kneeling and raising a fist is not “real change”)
UnitedHealth reduced claim denials following the murder. So at least that is some tangible positive result
Just as the George Floyd protests did not produce real change
That’s just not true though. You’re just spouting bullshit on the internet.
Getting average people to the point that they are ready to do something like a general strike is a process.
Most people don’t even want to have to go to a protest.
But going to a protests is like anteing up in poker – it is mentally anchoring people as in the game and publicly taking a side.
And yeah - the fucks in power are going to say “bet”.
So now millions of people who are not where we already are, who have not wrestles with this and avoided it as long as they can - they are starting to ask, “ok, what do we actually have to risk to change this? What am I willing to do?”
Will we get enough people actually engaged enough for a general strike? I have no idea.
But I know it won’t happen without giving people a ramp-up that includes things like the protest this weekend.
Come over and lead the revolution then, if you think you’ve got what it takes. Otherwise, you’re also doing nothing of note.
I’m not American. If I went there to lead the revolution I would end up in El Salvador.
I did, however, got involved in politics in two countries I live in and did a lot of campaigning for them, so I’ve actually done the deed as far as I could rather than merely talk about it, and did so further than just demonstrations.
Demonstrations are nice as a way for people to know that they’re far from alone in their concerns, but they’re worthless if not leveraged into helping make or grow grassroots organization to change the actual underlying problems that results in somebody like Trump getting elected again and again (and I’m pretty sure that if that doesn’t change, when Trump is out somebody else like him or worse will eventually get elected).
The Georgy Floyd demonstrations are a great example of what happens if demonstrations aren’t leveraged to grow civic-society movements for change: you get some vague promises from politicians and then nothing actually changes.
I just feel that people here are treating these demonstrations as some kind on getting near the finish line when they’re at best (and hopefully) a beginning, and not even a beginning of the end but and beginning of the beginning, and they should be treated as opportunities to get the ball rolling on things that can actually snowball into real change.
If all you do after a demonstration is pat yourself on the back for having “done something” whilst you don’t even have some contacts for groups of people you’re thinking of joining for further actions, you’ve just done exactly what the actual powers that control the country wanted you to do: defused your anger whilst not starting the ball rolling on real change.
“Why isn’t anyone doing the obviously much better thing?” - someone not doing that thing
That’s great news. The other 9 of the 10 biggest protests were were extremely successful at affecting change.
Since we made such massive progress on all the others, this is clearly a harbinger of social and political progress.
Until we start seeing general strikes, or other action, they will continue to ignore the people.
A week of general strikes, and the stock exchange tanking acordingly, would actually have an effect.
I keep seeing this, and I don’t disagree, but what exactly is gonna change? Some rich people get slightly less rich, they’ll still own most of our government. Our current admin clearly doesn’t care about public opinion.
They care about money.
Day long general strikes have changed policy. A week would bring the government to the table on anything short of dissolving the government.
The US government is terrified of general strikes, and has gone to extraordinary measures to ensure they don’t happen.
- George Floyd (Police Brutality)
- Earth Day 1970 (Environmental Protection)
- No Kings (Trump)
- Hands Across America (Poverty)
- Women’s March 2017 (Feminism)
- Hands Off (Trump)
- March for Our Lives (Gun Violence)
- Women’s March 2018 (Feminism)
- #RickyRenuncia (Puerto Rico, Resignation of Ricardo Rosselló)
- Great American Boycott (Immigrant Rights)
Only #9 actually accomplished what they wanted.
Earth day did a lot of good
Wikipedia is weird. In an article that lists the largest protests that have occurred in the United States, they still feel the need to tell you that each one of these protests, that are on a list of protests that occurred in the United States, in fact occurred in the United States.
Just want to say estimates for both no kings and hands off were much higher.
No kings estimated at 13 million and hands off at over 10 million. The estimated amounts on Wikipedia are way under imo.
Behead those who say No Kings is violent
I don’t get the rankings. Seems like only earth day had more people.
Hopefully the people can push out maga eventually.
Boy. They sure coulda made that more apparent. Seems like something to put more in parenthesis than a footnote.
I was about to say the list was incomplete as several million attended the Iraq war protests, but it turns out that was global and only a few hundred k Americans bothered to protest the invasion of Iraq based on manufactured propaganda.
The post 9/11 bloodthirsty hysteria, “you’re either with us or against us” dissonance, religious nationalism, and ignorant patriotism is what made me believe the US would become an authoritarian dictatorship in my lifetime. Great job teenage me. I hate it.
I think you may have misread the Wikipedia page. There were 300-400,000 in NYC alone.
I was in Boston and there were 10s of thousands, even though it was February and sleeting, SF had another 150-200k.
I think there was a sizable group in DC too.
That’s what I thought but those are the “official” estimates, which do strangely focus on NYC.
I guess we’re talking about a fascist-oligarch-owned MSM who profit from war and chaos so they had a vested interest to suppress the real opposition.
I was in college at that time and was a typical “centrist” and counter protested. I’ve changed at lot since then.
Congratulations on your evolution. I was pretty cringe around that era, too.
That was the first overt demonstration that American news outlets were captured by jingoist propaganda. But back then pointing out that media coverage differed from literal experienced reality got you labeled as a terrorist kook.
A lot of people forget the shear bloodlust in the USA after 9/11 that lasted for years.
When people compare the Vietnam and Iraq Wars, a lot of people forget there was a large chunk of the country who were rabidly pro Iraq War while there wasn’t an equivalent base for the Vietnam War.
It felt like everyone was like you were either 1000% on board or you were casually on board cause you weren’t “into politics” but trying to find likeminded people who opposed it felt impossible to me. I was 16 when 9/11 happened and shortly after was when I stoped standing for the anthem or saluting the flag in the morning and I was the only kid in my highschool of 1,800 kids to do that and wow I got SO MUCH hate for it
This is online discourse in general with Americans. Nuance is impossible, it’s all “you’re either with us or against us”, for example when discussing China. Doesn’t even have to be something political, just any charged argument at a point in time.
Must be a coincidence that Lemmy was much more relaxed and welcoming when there were fewer Americans here in the beginning, you could even read news about European countries, now all we get is American politics spam.
Doesn’t even have to be something political
Yeah, it does. Everything is political. I guarantee, you’ve never had an apolotical argument taken over by Americans, because there’s no such thing as an apolotical argument
“I liked the gameplay of Witcher 2 more than Witcher 3’s”
CDPR made the combat easier so the game would appeal to a wider audience and make more money. The Witcher games are getting worse because of capitalism. If money weren’t involved, the devs could focus on making a work with artistic value, including in the gameplay, rather than chasing mass appeal.
“I liked the gameplay of Witcher 2 more than Witcher 1’s”
The spike in nationalism was intense, and hasn’t really dropped back down to a reasonable baseline since.
I was 16 when 9/11 happened and I was a pretty tuned in kid who spoke up about the issues I had with it, how horrible the patriot act was, all sorts of things and I can absolutely attest the response was always extremely hostile and cutting, filled with personal attacks about how moronic I was, now naive and of course because I’m female I’m inherently too stupid to hold a conversation about this so just shout me down so I will shut my stupid girl mouth and sit down. I’ve never changed my mind, why would I? And you know what, I still get attacked in exactly the same ways but at least the “you’re a terrorist for not supporting the Iraq war” has died down
Yeah!
Now knock off all that fascism - or we WILL go back out there and do another lap!
“no king’s” implies you think of him as a king. So not really an insult
“no kings” isn’t meant as an insult, what are you on about? It’s a statement that people don’t want a king.
Match the energy during election day ballot yeah?? Thanks
& here come the lies about the protests https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4mwJ1sIxt4
Ok. I’m too chicken shit to actually show up in person to one of these protests.
What’s the next best thing I can do to meaningfully help?
I get being afraid of going to a protest considering we have police literally saying they’ll just kill people, but that doesn’t mean you can’t get involved with those organizing the protests. See if you can get involved with the organizers of your local protests and ask them what they need for the protests. After all, those signs you see people carrying didn’t make themselves. At the very least you can call your reps and make your voice heard. Even if your reps are dems, make it clear that you want real action, not just talk. You could also talk to the people around you: at work, at the store, family members, etc. Encourage them to call their reps. If your reps aren’t actively making things worse or letting things get worse by doing nothing but fundraise (so most reps) then see if there are efforts to primary any of them and encourage everyone you know to vote in the primaries too
Like I said, I understand being afraid to go to a protest. I am too. But you have to remember that if we don’t stop Trump and a full blown fascist takeover, then things will be much, much worse and much, much harder to change
Wtf, the police is literally saying they’ll just kill people?? I missed that one, do you have a link?
Yup. Florida police
Jeeeeesus
wear a mask and dark shades to stay anonymous and stand in quietly in back then. the trick is numbers. you don’t have to heft a sign and chant slogans and be a spectacle if you don’t want to, you can just fill space and it will still help.
Fucking show up is what you can do.
Grow a pair.
You’ll only be scared before you go to the protest. Once you’re there you’ll be fine. The vibe on the ground at every protest I’ve been to is great and there’s a real feeling of camaraderie and support from your community. There is some risk, yes. It’s probably still safer than crossing the street.
Can you share what exactly your concerns are so that folks could suggest a mitigation strategy?
great job everyone!
Literally all of these except number 23 are left wing protests.
Let that sink in 33/34 that’s over 97% of the biggest protests in the US were left wing.
We are the majority. Stop believing in the Reagenesque “silent majority” BS.
The majority of people, dont want oligarchs and conservative bigotry.
We are the majority.
🌍🧑🚀🔫🧑🚀 Always have been. That’s why conservatives constantly try to make it harder to vote - the more people vote, the more left wing politicians win. Because the majority of people agree with left wing ideals.
Not necessarily true. People with left wing beliefs often vote for right wing candidates because the only information they have is their tiktok feeds and fox news playing at home.
No, it is necessarily true, according to the data lol. The higher the voter turnout, the more left wing candidates win. I don’t doubt that what you say is true at some level, but it doesn’t happen enough to affect the trend of higher voter turnout = more left wing wins.
This has changed. Look at the propensity switch. Low propensity voters back trump by higher margins than high propensity voters since 2020.
Hence why Democrats dominate low turnout special elections these days
A couple counterexamples doesn’t mean the trend across all elections has changed. And that’s what I’m talking about - the trend across all elections.
If blue fucking showed up at the boxes more often. (Even just 25% of the people registered as blue) nearly all government seats would flip and change would actually happen for the better. Instead left is actually center and right is facist.
Also, if memory serves, the right wing group the 3 percenters got their name because it only took 3% of the population to initiate change at some historical event.
Ergo, it doesn’t take that many people to get out and change the nation, but ffs you got to get out
Then why is the government so completely dominated by the right if most politically active people are on what Americans call the left?
As others pointed out, there’s major structural issues. There’s also issues with apathy and people buying into the anti-electoralism/accelerationism con with religious ferver.
It’s not hard to be anti-electoral when elections don’t seem to ever fucking work
You’re not wrong but, that’s really the trap that many of us on the Left hand fallen for. It takes a long time to build things and make positive changes in the face of resistance from moneyed interests. Leftists refusing to participate in every election, including primaries, is a good part of how we got here in the first place. Non-voters are the largest bloc and, with surveys consistently showing Left-of-Center policies to be popular with the populace overall, it’s safe to assume that the Overton window could be dragged to a better place if they bothered to participate and participate consistently in a calculated manner.
It is absolutely infuriating, indeed, to see all efforts being for nought, though. In less than a year, almost a century of progress has been undone and that would not have been possible if people had been voting stategically. At this point, I’m certain that things will not get appreciably better in my lifetime.
And if things won’t get better, why bother?
I’ve been voting as much as possible and doing the other things for a quarter century and we’ve always gotten further from what I’m hoping for.
I wasted all that time and money and stress and have nothing to show for it.
Politics is dumb and people are terrible. I want to leave the planet.
You’ve got extremely valid feelings. Mine are quite similar. I do find myself asking “what’s the fucking point?” far more often than I’d like.
Rather like the classic “what’s the meaning of life?”, I don’t think that anyone can answer that for anyone else. For me, it’s a love of my fellow human beings and belief that, based upon historical evidence, authoritarianism’s grip on society always crumbles. It might take a World War, or it may take centuries of insurgency, but it is inevitable. In order for that to happen, people need to experience kindness and empathy. And people need to be willing to be builders, rather than just violent fighters (every society founded in violence and bloodshed has been vulnerable to authoritarians coopting the movement). So, I keep pushing because it might help others when I’m gone. Hell, maybe it will help lead to the cultural and psychological changes necessary to approach the anarchic society of my ideals (I don’t think I’ll ever directly have that much influence or desire it but every small bit helps).
And there’s also spite. Authoritarians of all flavors are fundamentally cruel douchebags and the current ones are exceptionally stupid to boot (and revel in their anti-intellectualism). Continued resistance and standing up for people and showing them kindness really gets under their skin and I’m a big fan of that.
Politics is dumb and people are terrible. I want to leave the planet.
Yup. Me too buddy. Me too.
I might suggest, if you’re able, looking about for local (non-political) nonprofit orgs to see if there are any that really align with what you think is important. Helping others in a tangible manner can really help to stave off apathy.
because Dems allowed gerrymandering to go without protest
Two words, voter disenfranchisement
They remove the right to vote from our poor, our people of color, our citizens who have made mistakes but paid their debts to society, they remove polling places, making people wait hours and hours standing in lines to vote, giving them water is illegal, they purge voter roles right before elections…. And so so many more things. So many Americans don’t vote because they can’t because our right wing government has put so many roadblocks in the way.
Others have commented valid points but I also wanted to bring up propaganda;
A lot of people are unwilling or even unable (i.e. there is only one tv in the house and you don’t get to control the remote most of the time) to get their news from sources that aren’t constantly telling them that Democrats are out to get them and 2SLGBTQIA+ are the enemy and that if they just vote for (wealthy conservative) then all their problems will be solved overnight. Couple that with an education system that has failed to give people the critical thinking skills to ask what trans folk have to do with the economy and you get the 2024 election.
The fact that there are so many valid reasons makes me extremely unhopeful.
To make you more hopeful, they have to constantly fight to keep these systems of oppression in place. We win if/when this stops. All we have to do is keep fighting them. Make them work to oppress us, and it’ll crumble.
So the electoral college and the apportionment act will go away, too?
And Americans won’t be a bunch of fucking idiots with the attention span of a goldfish?
And we’ll get proportional representation when they crumble?
Because most of the issues pointed out are structural and have nothing to do with Trump
Well, either they will be fixed or the state collapses eventually. If they keep this up people lose faith in the government.
Too late.
Gerrymandering and other structural means of disproportionate representation in federal government are big parts of it
Because while a lot of Americans support a lot of left wing positions, there are no major left wing parties, and a very small number of politicians who run for national or statewide office who actually take action to further left wing policies. There’s Bernie Sanders, who isn’t a member of a large party. AOC, and a few others qualify, but being a small proportion of those running, they’re a small proportion of those elected, and have relatively little actual influence.
Ideas neither major party supports are basically impossible to see happen.
The electorial college and gerrymandering
My take is that there are a lot of Left people who won’t vote for anyone except a candidate they support 100%. Hilary Clinton should have destroyed Trump. Those people ignore the simple truth that any time any GOP gets elected the whole country moves to the right.
You’re right of course, the left is responsible for anything the right does. Would you care for a glass of soap?
There are two sides. The Right and everyone else. The Right wins because they stay on topic and vote. Until the rest of us fall in line like they do, they’ll keep on winning. Show me where I’m wrong.
You’re wrong by blaming the fictional non voting left for all your woes. Don’t be stupid.
There’s your tankie behavior.
You’re saying I’m wrong, and not providing anything like actual information. Why don’t you give me some facts and figures to explain it?
Making stupid claims and then demanding proof they aren’t true is pretty weak
There is an evil witch that lives underground in the Moon and who is mind-controlling non-Rightwing votes in the US so that they don’t vote. Show me were I’m wrong.
The easiest thing in the World is to come up with a wild-ass theory without backing it with any evidence and then demanding others disprove it - I do believe that’s even a 4chan special.
Donald Trump won the election in 2016 over Hilary Clinton. How much more evidence do you need that people should have done more to defeat Donald and the GOP?
That’s as much “evidence” for your original “two sides” theory as it is for my “witch in the Moon” theory.
Also you’ve moved the goalposts to a self-fullfilling and generic to the point of uselessness statement “people should have done more to defeat Donald and the GOP”.
That’s like saying that “all drivers in car crashes should have done more not to crash their cars”.
Well, true, but also about as worthless as “insights” go as “the sky is blue”.
Money, Propaganda, Tribalism, an undemocratic voting system…
Further, the uneveness of Power is gigantic: billionaires have way much power than common people, who are only powerful if together in large numbers and that’s incredibly hard to make happen in a structured way with everybody aligned in the same way compared with what a single billionaire can do if they feel like spending $100 million, and the entire system is set up against people organising in such a way - notice how the biggest demonstration ever in the US, the George Floyd protests, achieved pretty much nothing at all, and the police in the US is still a force of Injustice rather than Justice.
The vast majority of people are either played like fiddles or made to feel impotent and hence just turn of from politics and just live day to day.
The US is not a Democracy.
Because the left keeps falling in with the ineffectual center-right, leading to widespread voter disillusionment.
Mainly because your average person is apathetic to their own governenance
Because most Americans have knee-jerk reactions to labels as opposed to policies. Like how everyone supports all the protections Obamacare provides, but how they all want to get rid of Obamacare.
also voter suppression gerrymanderinng élite control of the media etc
In one word: money.
100%. Republicans have been blatantly against the will of the people, and can only maintain power through gerrymandering and straight up rigging elections. We are the majority by a long shot. The last election was likely rigged, and the heritage foundation, Trump, and Putin are working on the business plot 2. We have to do everything possible to stop it.
It’s been clear for a long time that the “silent majority” is in fact just an obnoxiously loud minority.
Mean rich people, their deluded lapdogs, and maybe like a thousand honest-to-goodness psychopaths.
It seems like the ’ in the word “don’t” somehow fell down and landed on the floor right after the word “people” in your last sentence. Might wanna pick it up and place it where it belongs.
Finally found something Trump was good at.
