It’s awesome being a doctor because you get to try your best to help people all day, get held up by patients talking about 6 different issues they didn’t even book their appointment for, held up by admin demanding you finish your notes between patients, held up by arguing on the phone with insurance that won’t authorize clearly necessary treatments, held up by nursing staff (understandably) needing your input on things between patients, and then read people bitching online like you were just spending that time drinking coffee and flirting with the nurses when you have a caffeineh eadache because you haven’t even had enough time to stop and drink coffee at all AND admin is bitching at you because you aren’t seeing enough patients every day.
So you add 20% to the time you expect for each appointment, leave a few appointment gaps to take care of administrative stuff, and ultimately book fewer patients. This means less money for you. Or, to put it another way, greed is leading to greater frustration for your patients. If that doesn’t matter to you, then the bitching is deserved.
Doctors don’t do the scheduling. I also explicitly mention the part about admin bitching about not seeing enough patients. I don’t give a fuck about money, I make enough. I would love to only see 3 patients a day and give them all the attention they need. But I would be out of a job, and then I’m helping no one. I highly suggest that you don’t comment on subjects you are completely uninformed about.
Doctors hire the people that do the scheduling, so don’t give me that. You telling me you have no institutional power to influence scheduling? FOH. You’re choosing to inconvenience your patients because you don’t want to be inconvenienced by an admin who thinks they should drive your practice instead of you.
Doctors don’t hire fucking anyone unless they are in private practice. If it IS private practice you have to keep your business afloat for yourself and employees. Holy shit, just stop fucking talking. The enemy here is not doctors, it’s the hospital and insurance system.
I don’t think people mean it’s the doctors fault or that they’re sitting around doing Jack. The frustration is that doctors time is so packed full that they don’t have time for all those things, which is an administration problem.
Clinic/hospital admins want to pack the doctors schedule full of 15min increment appointments, where they’re expected to see the patient, diagnose/treat, and complete notes/charts within an incredibly short amount of time.
Worst part is that most of the time this is not done because the clinic is having trouble making money, but because they want MORE profit from every person walking into their doors.
Then book fewer patients per day (assuming it’s your own practice). It’s one thing to have a bad day where you fall behind. It’s another thing when you fall an hour behind every day.
The doctor is a professional and can address things, no matter who does the actual work. If they can’t even address issues with an admin on acheduling, what are they going to do when the admin stops ensuring they have all the supplies they need?
Unfortunately the doctors usually aren’t the ones managing the schedule. The admin / secretaries are.
And good ones, that understand that a new patient with no file, that doesn’t speak the language, that has a history of complications with her previous pregnancies, etc is not gonna be a normal half hour consultation are extremely rare.
Even kind ones that see that you are swamped day in day out just seem to assume that these are teething difficulties, adapting to the position, etc (even after almost two years).
And so that’s how my wife ends up doing a ten hour workday. Nonstop. With no break for lunch because hey, too bad, she finished the morning shift two hours late and now her first afternoon appointment has been waiting for half an hour…
But of course if you tell patients there is no time for them because the few doctors that are here are already overworked…
(to be clear, I’ve been saying the same thing as you to my wife for two years now. But apparently the message is not getting across)
I want to believe that the vast majority of people in the medical profession are indeed fighting to keep capitalism away from the system. And so far that’s been my experience. But you’re right, of course. That’s an optimistic take.
Idk if my boss gives me a schedule with unreasonable timelines and deliverables, I tell him, and we talk about it, and we get it fixed. If it keeps happening, I’ve found new work.
Maybe the medical industry has systematic issues that can’t be resolved, but everyone should have some autonomy
It’s not an industry, it’s a public service (I’m in France). Also they’re saving lives.
If she walks away, that’s one fewer ob/gyn in a region where they have almost none left in the private sector (the last one in town retired this year). Women and children will quite literally die and she knows it.
On the other hand that means she’s more valuable and surely she should negotiate her salary from a position of strength, right?
But the set of people who become doctors and who negotiate with “would be too bad if something happened to women and children” is, as far as I know, empty.
If any exist, I don’t think they’d last the twenty odd years of studying and training before they start making bank. Much simpler and faster to become a gangster.
The problem is that doctors and more broadly care workers have a hard time walking away from their job because, you know, they care for people that they would leave in a worse situation if they left.
Yeeep. We are on the same wavelength. I literally opened my argument with the same idea, last time we had the convo : she’s the one with the doctorates, plural. She should be the one telling them what she can and can’t handle. Feck, her head doctor is on the same page too. Unfortunately that sort of power seems to come with age and even at 40 she still doesn’t have that kind of attitude. One could attribute this to her gender, I suppose, but having seen my dad do exactly the same thing throughout his career until he reached near retirement age, and having seen all my dad’s colleagues do the same thing, hopefully you get the idea.
There just isn’t enough time and too many patients for not enough doctors. Always.
And most doctors want to help their patients, so they just don’t count the hours, until the work is done.
Unfortunately the doctors usually aren’t the ones managing the schedule.
A doctor can address the scheduling issue with whoever does the scheduling. Addressing does not mean the doctor gets their way, but that they discussed it and attempted change.
If they can’t have that discussion, why are they atill working there and what is their plan when changes are made that make scheduling even worse?
It’s awesome being a doctor because you get to try your best to help people all day, get held up by patients talking about 6 different issues they didn’t even book their appointment for, held up by admin demanding you finish your notes between patients, held up by arguing on the phone with insurance that won’t authorize clearly necessary treatments, held up by nursing staff (understandably) needing your input on things between patients, and then read people bitching online like you were just spending that time drinking coffee and flirting with the nurses when you have a caffeineh eadache because you haven’t even had enough time to stop and drink coffee at all AND admin is bitching at you because you aren’t seeing enough patients every day.
Ok but like, there was a little sip and flirt on the way wasn’t there? ;)
I kid. Keep on keeping on.
So you add 20% to the time you expect for each appointment, leave a few appointment gaps to take care of administrative stuff, and ultimately book fewer patients. This means less money for you. Or, to put it another way, greed is leading to greater frustration for your patients. If that doesn’t matter to you, then the bitching is deserved.
Doctors don’t do the scheduling. I also explicitly mention the part about admin bitching about not seeing enough patients. I don’t give a fuck about money, I make enough. I would love to only see 3 patients a day and give them all the attention they need. But I would be out of a job, and then I’m helping no one. I highly suggest that you don’t comment on subjects you are completely uninformed about.
Doctors hire the people that do the scheduling, so don’t give me that. You telling me you have no institutional power to influence scheduling? FOH. You’re choosing to inconvenience your patients because you don’t want to be inconvenienced by an admin who thinks they should drive your practice instead of you.
Doctors don’t hire fucking anyone unless they are in private practice. If it IS private practice you have to keep your business afloat for yourself and employees. Holy shit, just stop fucking talking. The enemy here is not doctors, it’s the hospital and insurance system.
I don’t think people mean it’s the doctors fault or that they’re sitting around doing Jack. The frustration is that doctors time is so packed full that they don’t have time for all those things, which is an administration problem.
Clinic/hospital admins want to pack the doctors schedule full of 15min increment appointments, where they’re expected to see the patient, diagnose/treat, and complete notes/charts within an incredibly short amount of time.
Worst part is that most of the time this is not done because the clinic is having trouble making money, but because they want MORE profit from every person walking into their doors.
It’s the culmination of decades of cost cutting measures in the medical field as small practices get eaten up by large companies.
I used to get mad at the doctors who worked for those big companies, now you are lucky if you can avoid them.
Then book fewer patients per day (assuming it’s your own practice). It’s one thing to have a bad day where you fall behind. It’s another thing when you fall an hour behind every day.
A doctor tha expects those things to happen should schedule based on that knowledge.
If the admin has unrealistic expectations, then those expectations need to be addressed.
Doctors don’t do the scheduling. The idea of telling admin to change their expectations is laughable.
What a defeatist attitude.
The doctor is a professional and can address things, no matter who does the actual work. If they can’t even address issues with an admin on acheduling, what are they going to do when the admin stops ensuring they have all the supplies they need?
Unfortunately the doctors usually aren’t the ones managing the schedule. The admin / secretaries are.
And good ones, that understand that a new patient with no file, that doesn’t speak the language, that has a history of complications with her previous pregnancies, etc is not gonna be a normal half hour consultation are extremely rare.
Even kind ones that see that you are swamped day in day out just seem to assume that these are teething difficulties, adapting to the position, etc (even after almost two years).
And so that’s how my wife ends up doing a ten hour workday. Nonstop. With no break for lunch because hey, too bad, she finished the morning shift two hours late and now her first afternoon appointment has been waiting for half an hour…
But of course if you tell patients there is no time for them because the few doctors that are here are already overworked…
(to be clear, I’ve been saying the same thing as you to my wife for two years now. But apparently the message is not getting across)
And you haven’t even gotten to the medical billing phase that’s been strangling American healthcare systems for decades!
Thankfully we are in France and everybody is fighting tooth and nails to not become that. So far so good.
everybody!?
what an overstatement!
I want to believe that the vast majority of people in the medical profession are indeed fighting to keep capitalism away from the system. And so far that’s been my experience. But you’re right, of course. That’s an optimistic take.
now that nfp may have a say in government, things may hopefully get better for you?
Idk if my boss gives me a schedule with unreasonable timelines and deliverables, I tell him, and we talk about it, and we get it fixed. If it keeps happening, I’ve found new work.
Maybe the medical industry has systematic issues that can’t be resolved, but everyone should have some autonomy
It’s not an industry, it’s a public service (I’m in France). Also they’re saving lives.
If she walks away, that’s one fewer ob/gyn in a region where they have almost none left in the private sector (the last one in town retired this year). Women and children will quite literally die and she knows it.
On the other hand that means she’s more valuable and surely she should negotiate her salary from a position of strength, right?
But the set of people who become doctors and who negotiate with “would be too bad if something happened to women and children” is, as far as I know, empty.
If any exist, I don’t think they’d last the twenty odd years of studying and training before they start making bank. Much simpler and faster to become a gangster.
The problem is that doctors and more broadly care workers have a hard time walking away from their job because, you know, they care for people that they would leave in a worse situation if they left.
Why can’t your wife adjust her schedule? She’s the one with the medical degree. She can ask for anything she wants, within reason.
Tell her to say that she needs more time between patients to avoid a lawsuit. She doesn’t want to miss anything. They’ll listen to that.
Yeeep. We are on the same wavelength. I literally opened my argument with the same idea, last time we had the convo : she’s the one with the doctorates, plural. She should be the one telling them what she can and can’t handle. Feck, her head doctor is on the same page too. Unfortunately that sort of power seems to come with age and even at 40 she still doesn’t have that kind of attitude. One could attribute this to her gender, I suppose, but having seen my dad do exactly the same thing throughout his career until he reached near retirement age, and having seen all my dad’s colleagues do the same thing, hopefully you get the idea.
There just isn’t enough time and too many patients for not enough doctors. Always. And most doctors want to help their patients, so they just don’t count the hours, until the work is done.
A doctor can address the scheduling issue with whoever does the scheduling. Addressing does not mean the doctor gets their way, but that they discussed it and attempted change.
If they can’t have that discussion, why are they atill working there and what is their plan when changes are made that make scheduling even worse?
You sound so disrespectful…