Specifically Marilyn Manson and Kanye West. Am I overthinking this?
Yup. It’s very easy indeed.
Pirate the fuck out of their stuff, enjoy, repeat.
Is Marilyn Manson a dick? I thought they were just weird.
Nah, he’s always gone beyond weird. Even back before the band got famous, he was a major asshole to people and abusive. If you can find people that were in the scene back then, it wasn’t even secret; some of the early fans were proud if he did something shitty to them.
He groomed and allegedly raped an 18 year old.
Ok, fuck him.
YMMV. There is no universal answer to this question. None of us separate the artist entirely from the work and thus our enjoyment of it. I think of it in video game terms. Every artist has a power bar. They can get hit a couple of times and can still be tolerated when they’re in the yellow. But once we’re in the red zone and the character starts getting translucent or is flashing I’m out. This is all very subjective though.
Marylin Manson went red for me and I scrubbed the songs I liked from my playlists. Michael Jackson also. But I continue to listen to The Smiths/Morrissey in spite of Morrissey’s politics. I still enjoy Pink Floyd although Walters and Gilmore are profoundly unlikable characters and Walter’s politics rub me the wrong way a lot of the time.
In the age of streaming, there isn’t a lot of money going to the artist. You’re not really supporting them financially if you enjoy their music in spite of any a-holery, moral or criminal, they may have committed. If you get something out of it, continue to do so. If it feels yucky then I’m gonna guess one more hit is putting the character in the red. And if you paid for the music/album, the “damage” is already done.
I’m glad I was never a big fan of Kanye’s œuvre so I don’t have to wrestle with this question about him. I think he would have done enough to drain his power bar thrice over and thus it’s game over for me. I wish he had more well meaning people around him who could help him to protect himself from himself.
When you said video game you brought to mind a broader context for me. We often associate “a name” (musician, CEO, comedian, etc.) with a brand. But when you truly think of the number of people and entire industry involved in producing said art, it becomes a somewhat different question. Not necessarily easier to answer, and I really like your health bar analogy. I think to some extent it depends on what you personally are getting out of your interaction with the product.
Always a fascinating philosophical question to ponder.
In my mind, as long as you’re not listening to a horrific song (like Kanye’s Heil Hitler), and as long as they’re not seeing a penny from you listening to them, then I don’t think it’s a huge issue. You’re getting something from them while screwing them out of some money.
like Kanye’s Heil Hitler
Wait, what??? I thought this was a joke, so I just looked it up. I have no words…
You and me both.
Sometimes it can be difficult to separate the art from the artist, particularly when the artist in question is especially vile.
Just pirate their music. Don’t stream it, don’t go to their concerts, don’t buy and wear their merch. As long as you’re not financially contributing to them then I don’t think there’s any issue.
It also, like CaptainPedantic said, matters what they’re singing about. If the artist has shitty views but doesn’t present them in their music that’s one thing but there’s no ethical way to listen to something called Heil Hitler.
Sometimes it can be difficult to separate the art from the artist, particularly when the artist in question is especially vile.
I often bring up Death of the Artist, but with books and music I have an especially hard time. Authors, in particular, struggle to keep their works views and politics out of their books; the same is true with musicians, perhaps to a lesser extent.
It does make me worry about the subconscious influences of listening or reading them.
I think that if “death of the artist” was applicable to any piece of art, then the art would therefore be the equivalent of AI art.
Art by it’s very nature is influenced by someone’s views and beliefs.
The only possible exception is that some artists may drastically change their views later and even denounce previous work.
Edit: I also think it’s worth pointing out that you can like the way someone represents/expresses their viewpoints even if you disagree with said viewpoints, you just have to be aware of the viewpoints presence and potential effects.
I agree; I do think, especially with fiction and reading for leisure, that it’s easy to forget about the author’s beliefs. And often they’re expressed subtly, and… well, when I first read Ender’s Game, I had no idea who OSC was, much less his religious and political beliefs.
Reading Ayn Rand is easy: her writing is unapologetically blatant; it’s like reading those Christian comics where all of the Evil Characters are drawn so over-the-top that there’s no question. But I know my political beliefs today were influenced by my reading as a youth, and I know that I had no idea I was ingesting and being influenced by it at the time.
I think there’s a Dunning-Kruger effect for propaganda, as there is with torture. Many people believe they could withstand torture, or concerted brainwashing, or recognize and be uninfluenced by propaganda, whereas almost nobody can.
You can still stream it; just use a modded app like YouTube Music ReVanced to block ads and the artist’s record label won’t get a penny from you.
(Unless of course Google pays royalties by view count rather than ad revenue. Not entirely sure how that works. Just wanted to point out that YTM ReVanced is a thing)
The artist is smarter than you.
The earthworm considers the hawk to be vile.
The hawk is a terrible digger and crawler. The hawk can’t appreciate composted vegetable scraps. Those big flappy wings and dangling claws, so ugly.
My point is, the world is large and you are small. So be humble, you are probably wrong about everything.
Dont support them by buying their stuff. Just pirate their music. For me personally, i dont follow artist in anyway shape or form. I have bigger problem to worry about. I just listen to songs i like and go on with my day.
Do a hecking piracy. Problem solved.
Ripping stuff from YouTube for personal use isn’t even illegal.
Yes. It’s called seperating the artist from the art.
Yes, but there is a line at which point the art can no longer be seen.
For example, I can’t listen to the lost prophets any more.
I don’t think it bad to still enjoy their music. If the music is good then its good regardless if the author is good or not. I understand not wanting to support them however. So though I don’t think its bad to still listen to them I understand how others fell differently
Very curious how old-time Kanye fans feel haha
Yes. It would be necessary to live a modern life, given almost everything we use/eat comes from some unethical source. We abstain from the things that are important to us, according to our values. Lyrically if a song does not itself promote [terrible thing] then the music can be separated from an artist that does.
However if it is important to you that your listening does not generate income for those people, don’t listen to their music in apps (eg Spotify, who pays based on plays), nor on their official YT channels (which are likely monetised).
Also, be mindful that playing/listening to it around others is a form of ‘conspicuous consumption’, one of many ways our actions become ‘Word of Mouth’ advertising. This may lead others to believe you support the artists specifically, and depending on their values, they may be derisive or hostile. (Or, they agree with [terrible thing] and believe you are alike.)
I’d say it depends on WHY you like the art. Does it tie into the toxic or reprehensible traits of the artist? Was the artist trying to send a toxic or reprehensible message with this art?
If not, then it’s just a matter of ensuring that your enjoyment of the art doesn’t translate into support for the artist. Or, at least, that it doesn’t cross your personal line of support for the artist.
So, for example, does the Kanye music you like have nazi themes or messaging? Far as I’m aware, no, the nazi-ism is just his newest shit, so you’re probably fine as long as you’re not streaming from Spotify or YouTube, or otherwise giving him revenue.
Of course, just don’t give them money. Unless you’re listening to the musical equivalent of “The Eternal Jew”/“American Sniper”, in which the content was not only made by hateful, possibly hellbound people but is also actively trying to morph your ideology to be more like theirs, what’s the danger?
That’s how I view it too. If you can consume something without financing further harm then the author doesn’t matter. Already own a Niel Gaiman book? Feel free to keep reading it. Pirated some metal music from a band that turned out to be neo-nazis? Go for it. Want to read Lovecraft? He’s long dead and his estate doesn’t seem to be supporting racism, so buy as much as you want. Want to check out Mein Kampf from the library? I will have questions when you return it, but you aren’t hurting anyone by reading it. Just understand the mindset that made them bad people and don’t let them sway your outlook to match.
My mom got me a copy of Mein Kampf when I was little (I asked, I was curious about what this Hitler guy used to yap about) and she never even questioned it, lol. She really had faith in little ol’ me. 😅
