You’re just encouraging me to refer to women as “females” with this.
I recently watched The Orville, and immediately think of the Moclans and their Ultra-Misogyny
Honestly, a handsome specimen of the Ferengi species. I hear he was even the Grand Nagus briefly. And look at those lobes.
I was once explaining to someone how a group of my family is part of a “religion” which is really a cult. I was saying how females (being inclusive of the adult women and young girls) in this cult have no body autonomy and how fucked up it is. I was interrupted to be informed that the term female should not be used. They interrupted my explanation of how my fucking family member is being forced to get pregnant over and over, how the girls are being treated like property or pets, because correcting my use of the word female was more important. I will never forget or forgive this moment. I hope this anecdote highlights priorities for everyone that has such a strong opinion about this. Also, I imagine if I wasn’t male, this would have been a nonissue. I don’t know about anyone else, but I actually do want equality. Double standards are outdated.
I will never forget or forgive this moment.
(emphasis mine) Moments where someone’s heart was in the right place are the most forgivable for me
If I could choose my reaction it mighttttttt be akin to….
“LOL did you just knee jerk reaction b/c ‘female’ is word of the week on fascist social media? Well thanks for caring but this will derail us for a thirty-second language & comprehension lesson…”
Context is important. In your case, you’re using female to designate a biological characteristic - aka, a reproductive ability that the cult is specifically exploiting. Some men, especially online, use “female” in a way where normally someone would use the term “woman”, in an attempt to dehumanize women. It’s unfortunate that the person you were talking to couldn’t tell the difference, but as for never forgiving them, maybe a gentle correction could be more warranted?
“Hey, bigots say this and it makes people sound like bigots when they say it”
“I used that word correctly and was told that it made me sound like a bigot. Maybe think about that?”
Cool, maybe get mad at the bigots who ruined the word for people rather than the people saying the word was ruined by bigots.
It’s like when people get mad at the r-slur being a slur now. Like, no, it was always intended as an insult based on medical language. It was always going to become a slur.
Now people are using the word female to both alienate and other women in their language and to “sound smarter” when showing bigotry. Also, you were probably told to not say it because they knew you were better than the assholes who say it in a demeaning way. Maybe… think about that?
How about we just stop letting bigots have every fucking word and don’t assume negative qualities about people from an insignificant distinction, cultures are different and just assuming someone is a bigot because they used the word female in a proper context is absolutely idiotic and counter productive to actually fighting real bigotry
Never assumed this person was a bigot. The point being made is that “female” is now a dog whistle word for the alt-right. Dog whistles by themselves aren’t proof that someone is a bigot, but they are still words associated with bigotry.
You can’t control what words become dog-whistles (Jean-Paul Sartre quote “But they(anti-semites) are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words”) but you can acknowledge that they ARE dog whistles without it being some moral failing to point it out.
I am talking more generally, not just you in this instance.
We shouldn’t keep seeding ground to fascists over which words are “theirs” a simple and inconsequential example is Pepe the frog, there is nothing inherently racist about it and there are hordes of wholesome pepe memes, but someone decided that because it also gets coopted by fascists and racists that now pepe is actually a symbol for racism.
This is idiotic that we are HANDING bad actors the right to own words and ideas by self policing.
I don’t disagree, but I don’t see how you can do that. Well, I kind of do, that’s by “taking the word back”, poisoning the meaning of the word or its association so that hateful people won’t want to be associated with it. I know it’s definitely not shaming people for calling out that it’s a dog whistle. Because, again, that puts the moral failing on the person calling it out rather than the people who gave it the negative association to begin with.
That quickly becomes “ugh, these fucking SJWs policing everyone’s speech” instead of “ugh, these fucking losers ruining perfectly good words with their hatred”, which it should be.
I agree there isn’t an easy answer, I just don’t think giving them power over the words is actually helping anyone, because it does turn into the SJW situation like you pointed out.
Humungus Wut intensifies
It devolved into people MAKING problems were there wasn’t actually one by assuming negative intent.
Cool, maybe get mad at the bigots who ruined the word for people rather than the people saying the word was ruined by bigots.
A scorpion wants to cross a river but cannot swim, so it asks a frog to carry it across. The frog hesitates, afraid that the scorpion might sting it, but the scorpion promises not to, pointing out that it would drown if it killed the frog in the middle of the river. The frog considers this argument sensible and agrees to transport the scorpion. Midway across the river, the scorpion stings the frog anyway, dooming them both. The dying frog asks the scorpion why it stung despite knowing the consequence, to which the scorpion replies: “I am sorry, but I couldn’t help myself. It’s my character.”
good luck getting the bigots to change.
Who said anything about getting them to change? Getting mad at people because the word changed instead of getting mad at the people who changed the word is my point. There’s a reason why that word was targeted as a dog whistle, but it is still a dog whistle now and acknowledging that it is isn’t some moral wrong.
…it’s how you imagine people look or it’s what you imagine people look like, but not both…
Cool it over there. I look like that but I don’t call women females. That was very unwarranted.
Not fair to the military veterans.
They got “That’s not a woman, it’s a female soldier” drilled into them.
“Female” is fine as an adjective. It’s when it’s used as a noun that it becomes a problem. But that’s not a new rule or anything.
Consider when someone says “Black people” vs “the Blacks”.
Knew a guy that got the one-two punch of being a soldier then being a cop. Would describe people like “male, Caucasian, average build” when we were out at bars.
The language culture is probably the strangest part about the military, and probably the police force as well. I know the military lingo was hard to stop using, but I couldn’t imagine going from one institutional language to the next.
It’s a useful skill to have if you’re able to master it, language switching. You can establish credibility/experience or lack of depending on your audience and your intentions.
I’ve never served but sometimes people assume that I have because of how I carry myself. So I’ll avoid phrases and sayings consistent with military personnel, maybe toss in words used in movies and video games to give the impression that my knowledge of the military stems mostly from those.
That may be but if they would shorten “female soldier”, wouldn’t they refer to her as “a soldier” and not “a female”?
Yes, we heard “that is just a soldier” as well. They just didn’t like the terms lady or woman, you had to use “female”.
it’s an adjective, not a noun. but I hear it everywhere, mostly on newscasts and other broadcasts. so I just call em ‘broads’ (/s)
You can’t call chicks ‘broads’ anymore, its not civilized. (/s)
I prefer to call’em dames.
Soldiers have a lot more than that drilled into them. Obeying authority, pushing down your own emotions, lots of shit.
I would never be a soldier. A fighter if needed, but not joining any traditional military. It will kill your soul.
After having been in the military, it’s weird to hear people talk about the military who have never served.
Obeying authority? Sure, until ranking up and becoming the authority.
Pushing down emotions? More like learning to have control over our emotions, where those emotions do not control us.
Never be a soldier, but a fighter if needed?
That’s basically what I did. Most military jobs are non-combat that are trained to fight if needed but if they are needed than we’ve got way bigger problens than just fighting.
It will kill your soul? I for one certainly have regrets, but my soul feels intact.
Not everyone should join the military, it’s certainly not for everyone. Some people who thought it was all they ever wanted to do find out quickly that it’s not for them and leave. Others who thought they’d just join for 4 years for the college money and bail end up making a career of it and retire after 20 years.
I’m indifferent, I just did my 4 years and got out.
Fair points. Its just that so many soldiers seem to he traumatized by what they experience. If you didnt see much combat, of course you wont be affected by that.
I would fight for a good leader. Someone with wisdom, courage, integrity. Those people are very rare.
None of the us presidents, or any world leaders meet that bar.
Though only 10% of the military serves in direct combat roles, those who actually serve in combat can certainly be traumatized by their experience.
The silver lining of serving in the military is that we are obligated not to follow illegal orders and the path to gaining rank in the military more often than not will instill wisdom and integrity after having their courage tested.
I am thankful to have served with so many servicemembers who demonstrated their wisdom, integrity, and courage and stood up for what they knew was right even when the people we elect are unable to do the same.
Yeah I can imagine. I just hope the current administration doesnt make it legal to do horrible things.
And from friends personal experiences. Your back and knees die in the service.
There are a lot of things unfair to vets, we can add this to the pile
They are all just from the rib of a man or whatever it was anyway, right?
“You let them wear clothes?”
No stupid questions time: This kind of lurks in the back of my mind and I sometimes find myself hesitating to use the term “female” to refer to female figures in any context. I don’t have to do that, right? Like, would “woman lawyer” be better than “female lawyer” in contexts where specifying gender might be relevant? I would conversely prefer the term “male lawyer” in the same context and “man lawyer” sounds just as odd to me as “woman lawyer”. “Lawyer who is a woman” is a little verbose, too. Am I overthinking this?
Yes you’re over thinking this. A woman lawyer is just a lawyer. Same how a male lawyer is just a lawyer. Unless the gender of the person is important, leave it out of their job title. Use the word actor to describe both men and women who act. Flight attendant for men and women, or receptionist, or any other word. The vast majority of time you can leave their gender out of the description and it’s fine.
Sorry but “woman” is not an adjective and its use that way is grating. You wouldn’t say “man teacher” and it sounds wrong. So does “woman lawyer” or “woman voter.”
The neckbeard/incel thing is using “female” when “woman” would be acceptable and more common, like “look at these females” or something. It doesn’t mean we have to abolish the word “female” entirely from the lexicon.
Yeah, that seems to align nicely with the instincts I outlined in my comment. No need to apologize. Thanks!
My personal rule is female adjective is okay, female noun is not.
From what I googled, it’s especially bad when you pair “man” and “female” together, which makes sense to me.
Just don’t use male or female as nouns to refer to humans. That simple. If you’re talking about animals it doesn’t matter.
If you’re talking about animals it doesn’t matter.
Not even that it doesn’t matter, it’s almost entirely the point. The reason why using ‘females’ as a noun to refer to women is dehumanizing is because it’s a noun we use for animals.
Best be safe and call them “girl lawyer”
My personal take is to just use lawyer, when gender is irrelevant. This may get your audience confused when using “she” in the next sentence. But it could help weaken the stereotypes about genders if we did this more often IMHO.
If needed “female lawyer” or “lawyer who is a woman” are good otherwise.I know, use the worst of all options, “lawyeress.” /s
When we’re driving, my wife often acts as a navigatrix
Waiter = Waitress
Lawyer = LawyressLawyer femoid 😒
lawyeoid 😏
They’re just called lawyers, unless they’re lawyering with their genitals and their sex is somehow relevant.
There are obviously still contacts where the distinction is important.
Such as discussing discrimination, statistics, etc
Maybe from an equity perspective, but not from a lawyer perspective. So you’d probably say “we need more women in law”.
Because the topic is women. If the topic was lawyering, then sex won’t come up.
Immediate scenario that came to mind here is
The client demanded any other public defender, as long as they weren’t black or female.
“70% of lawyers suffer discrimination in the workplace but only 30% of lawyers face discrimination.”
“single female lawyer fighting for justice and also being single,”
That’s a deep reference. Very nice.
I’m a nostalgia sniper today
I work in statistics and we never use girl of woman, only female. The line is vastly different in age and meaning depending on culture, religion, law, or heritage. Even in western societ, 13, 16, 18, and 21 are all valid before tipping to 40, 50, 60, 65, 68, and 70 where the term can be prefixed with some form of adjective.
It’s old-fashioned. Just say female and every culture/society understands you without confusion or insult. Save you embarassing/insulting people while travelling too.
Just tells you how easily the media can seed prejudices. One good story is enough.
“Men and females.”
Yes that’s the issue, if you use them inconsistently. Males, females. Men, women. Same for boys, girls actually. Saying boys and women or men and girls can seem belittling to the other.
I consistently used males and females in some contexts but I’ve noticed that it often still comes across as weird when talking about humanoids.
What the guys behind closed doors at the Republican Party leadership look like when they take their mask off.
haha yeah imagine being ugly lol
Most handsome capitalist I know
Ugly? With those lobes?
