Canada’s largest Muslim organisation is outraged over a bill introduced by the Quebec government that would ban headscarves for school support staff and students.
“In Quebec, we made the decision that state and the religion are separate,” said Education Minister Bernard Drainville, CBC News reported. “And today, we say the public schools are separate from religion.”
But the National Council of Canadian Muslims (NCCM), who are challenging in the Supreme Court the original bill that forbids religious symbols being worn by teachers, say the new bill is another infringement on their rights and unfairly targets hijab-wearing Muslims.
“This renewed attack on the fundamental rights of our community is just one of several recent actions taken by this historically unpopular government to bolster their poll numbers by attacking the rights of Muslim Canadians,” the NCCM said in a social media post.
I think it’s a good move that Christians aren’t allowed to wear crosses in public anymore. Always reminds me of pedophiles and that makes me feel uncomfortable.
Well done. 👏😂
They’re not, the CAQ is not nothing but hypocrites on the subject. They excluded Christians symbols from the get go.
They excluded religious items that didn’t shove oppressive symbolism in people’s faces. Get your facts straight.
No body was enslaved due to the power of the hijab. Christian pedophiles and their obsession with the cross did use the cross as a power symbol. Interesting how racist and dumb you are
I mean. Women in theocratic islamic states get arrested and assaulted if they don’t wear their hijab. This is a pretty well documented fact.
Well documented by your comment?
Saudi had their Esports covered by women without hijabs. Even when watching Youtube videos about tourists visiting Iran you see plenty of women without hijab.
Like Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Iran and Libya?
Let’s see, house of Saud was supported by the British as an friendly clan who then took over most of arabia and when a king acted against American/British values they got couped
For afganistan look at operation Cyclone, most of these terror groups or their predecessors were funded by America to take out the potentially socialist leaning afganistan among many other nation which later backfired on the American govt
Iran has a democracy under mossadeq until he nationalised oil, made Britain big made, told daddy America it’s communism, mossadeq was couped with the Shah, the people then couped the Shah with the islamic fundamentalist among other funding from again America.
Libya had ghaddafi who wasnt no saint by libya thrived under him. America invaded and now it has open slave markets
There’s a something that’s similar about all these stories I can’t get by hear around…
Why is Indonesia, Malaysia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Jordan, Lebanon, turkey, Tunisia not killing or arresting women for hijab? That’s a far far bigger amount of Muslims?
“They only oppress women because the west were mean to them” you people are genuinely ridiculous.
Is that what you got out of my entire comment? You’re not proving your point, only you lack education and reading comprehension.
And how is the cross not “oppressive symbolism”? It’s literally an execution method???
All religious items are oppressive symbolism to someone.
Hyperbole and (ironically enough) superstition
I thought as much.
That report is made by these guys.
You, know, the guys behind Reaganomics and push for the privatization of everything
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Institute_for_Policy_Research
Is that why the content of that article gives only absolute numbers and nothing that can actually aid comparison or put it in context?
Feel free to treat that as a rhetorical question. 🤨
Nobody is stopping them to wear whatever they want in school … they just have to choose another country if they are so brainwashed.
Nobody is stopping people protest against Israel in the USA. They just have to choose another country or stop protesting? This is how stupid your argument is
Yes, sometimes i will sound stupid. But about the genocide committed by Israel : it is much more important than any idiotic hijab or whatever pieces of clothes.
Protecting harmless freedom of expression is a lot less important than a genocide but still important.
Yes some things are much more important than others, still …
Do you know this whole debate about stupid religious signs in Quebec came once again because there has been disregard of basic rights (life threatening) in some schools for non-religious children ?
You sound just like conservatives saying “if you don’t like it you can just leave”.
i agree conservatives and Nazi are bad. Thankfully, you and i are not like them 😁👍
I don’t think this law bans all hijab but just the niqab which is the one that also covers the face and is generally seen as fundamentalist in most Muslim countries. The bill itself says face and not head covering. Not to say that this entire bill isn’t driven by some level of xenophobia (Christian symbols and holidays are seen as heritage/culture while non-Christian ones are seen purely as religious etc)
Christian symbols and holidays are seen as heritage/culture while non-Christian ones are seen purely as religious etc
Exactly – these items of clothing are not even religious, they are cultural! Cultural cleansing under the cover of state secularism.
Most articles spefically mention hijabs even though the word face keeps getting mentioned which is indeed strange. Assuming the ban is all religious symbols and not only face veils it would include the Hijab.
The reporting in French I saw said “voile integral” which is niqab/burqa and I checked the bill itself and it just said face covering (excluding medical purposes)
Can I wear a hijab for non-religious purposes?? You know, like EVERYONE WHO WEARS A HIJAB??
The fact that it’s a religious organization opposing the ban proves it is religious
That’s not remotely what “prove” means.
You are criticize the choice of words, but it’s right
The fact that it’s a religious organization opposing the ban proves it is religious
It doesn’t prove it per se, but it’s a good indication. But also religion should have no place in government.
By banning religious signs you do the opposite of separating religion from the state, since the state is forcing people to hide any sign that the person is from a religious group.
There is also the problem that there is thousands of religions that may have their own signs how can you known all the religion signs and ban them? Also beards can be considered a religious sign should we also ban it or require a certain beard length limit just like peoole used to measure how short a women skirt is?
I hope this don’t make more visible divisions between canadian. Right know most of the separation is shiwn online.
I heard arguments about it in other spaces that made a lot of sense to me. Like a judge who ought to be able to visibly set their religion aside while exercising their authority, rather than signaling possible conflicts of interest in the very office such would compromise. I think I’m even on board with that reasoning. By that same reasoning, maybe it’s appropriate to also restrict displays of religious affiliation by school staff.
But why students?
That’s blatant cultural suppression and I cannot conceive a remotely coherent justification for it. And why the focus specifically on people showing their faces? Can you imagine if we mandated a certain amount of cleavage? How the fuck is this anybody’s business?
This just has me re-evaluating the cultural protectionism/outgroup suppression I’d previously deemed adequately justified.
The two things that have sown division in this world since forever, rich and poor, and religions
I’d get rid of all religions if I could, but if not that, this is a good step. Schools are not about indoctrinated ideas, it’s about learning science and facts. Sure, teach about religions (and don’t skip the parts where religion absolutely fucked this world over sideways) but sldont condone the practice of it on school grounds.
If you want to live in the stone Age then go back to a country where that is allowed. If you want to live in a civilized country, then don’t expect your religion to be catered to at every corner.
I hope Germany will do the same. In the western world there is no room for religion in authorities and public owned institutions.
Germany is too religious to do something like that, unfortunately. Their biggest party calls itself Christian, they still collect data about people’s religions, are quite weak on women’s reproductive rights etc.
Christian is only the name. The church criticises them on a regular basis. The CDU/CSU are just the conservatives of Germany.
For Germany there is no room for Muslims in the Muslim world. Only Zionist European colonists.
Cringe bro. Germany is a secular country. There is no room for relgion in authority and public owned institutions. Article 4 GG says that all people have the freedom of practising their religion in private. If you work for a authority you have to be neutral because you represent the federal state.
Germans genociding Muslims is pretty cringe indeed.
I do not think you understand what the word secular means.
You really need to learn how to debate. You made yourself ridiculous with those two comments, trying to accuse Germans and Germany of genocide against Muslims and changing the subject completely.
Who is sending 30% of the weapons to the genocide in Gaza?
So you don’t think Muslim students should have the freedom to wear a hijab if they choose? Pathetic.
They can wear the hijab if they go to private schools and universities. If they want to go to public educational institutions, they have to comply. Germany was very liberal to people who are actively practising one religion. Then they began to make problems in many ways. For example, there was a room for religious people to pray in the university. The result was that the people fighted each other because they had different religions. The women were isolated from the men. Now there is not a room anymore. This was one of the more harmless problems.
I’m an atheist and completely non-religious - but someone wearing a hijab, a turban or a yamulke in observance of their religious beliefs is frankly none of my business, and had zero effect on me. I believe in a secular public school system, but that doesn’t mean oppressing someone’s religious freedom.
Sadly I couldn’t wear a hat or a beanie in school. To some its all it is but that’s people who never know how serious it is to them.
The girls in my school were allowed to wear tight hair coverings. I was jerk one time about it saying it was loose and almost made her cry. They take that ultra serious. Learned my lesson right there. This will force them out of public schools and that’s probably the intent.
But as you know, hijabs, turbans and yamulkes are not equal to a hat. A hat is something you put on as an accessory and can easily take off, the other three are basic tenets of those people’s faith, a very different thing indeed. I believe a public school system should be staunchly secular, but to not allow someone to wear something mandated by their faith isn’t secularism, it’s religious oppression.
Public school was in my mind is education for the masses free to all citizens. So wear a tiny blue cap or dress in fae outfit so long as it doesn’t disturb anyone. IMO best way to help those kids? Let them be part of secular society. Once they see the freedom others have they will want it. It may not help them now but 15 years from now when they are more independent. Maybe even sooner Or maybe they’ll just be less restricted with their kids. Isolating them is not the answer.
Absolutely agreed, isolationism is a game with no winners.
The lesson here isn’t “they shouldn’t be able to wear headwear, either”, but “I should be able to wear headwear, too”.
Are you saying if everyone can wear it, it is ok?
I’m saying everyone should have equal freedom to wear the headwear they want to wear or not wear, regardless of whether it’s for fashion, cultural, or religious reasons.
Cheers to that
Klugscheisser. No state should dictate how someone chooses to dress themselves, whether it’s a religious garb or not, as long as it doesn’t infringe on the safety of others or indecency laws.
I have mixed feelings on this topic.
Me too,
Blanket ban on all religions I’m all for.
But this doesn’t stop someone secretly wearing a torcher cross under their shirt.
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Secularism is forced atheism now?
Who are you to force women to wear less clothes?
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You appear to be an expert on this. Surely you have conversed with many of these women and have not received all your knowledge from racist media figures.
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The key word is some of them
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Some people killed a person they love because of rejection so let’s ban relationships and love
I am sure you have. I can hear the racism dripping on your keyboard.
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You live in germany, who is the second biggest supporter of the terrorist state of israel occupying paledtine for 58 years
Extremely Islamophobic and racist comments
“This might come as a shock but I live in Germany”
I am quite unshocked.
People could be manipulated by emotions to do the worse things ever should we ban expressing emotions?
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We never banned emotions with ban certain actions or hate speech. We can hate anyone we want but we can’t harm them or disrespect them with actions or words
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Nobody is going to convert to Islam just because a teacher or student wear a hijab but you can’t forcing people who want to wear it not to do it. This is the completely opposite of separation of religion and state. How you going to also ban the symbols of the other thousands of unknown religion. How would you know the person who grow a beard for a religious reason or just because it look nice on him?
You emphasize “some” but do we have any data and real numbers?
Genuine curiosity, while recognizing this is hard to measure as a lot of oppression can be internalized.
It’s not an easy discussion (and that’s fine).
In Germany, pork is banned in school cafeterias and during Ramadan, SOME teachers ask ALL students not to eat during recess/breaks out of respect for fasting Muslims. Fuck that. This is Europe, not the Middle East.
Irrelevant to this issue. I don’t care if you have schoolboy trauma, get it out of this conversation. This is about Muslim women in Quebec, not snowflake Germans who want to spread conservative racist ideology.
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Oh my god. And to what race do the majority of Muslims belong? What sorts of issues have been talked about in Quebec as of late? Oh, anti-immigration? I wonder how these concepts might relate politically…
Talking to racists is like talking to toddlers, they often deliberately refuse to follow basic logic.
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It just so happens that some religions are unable to and need to show it publicly whenever they leave their homes.
https://www.legisquebec.gouv.qc.ca/en/document/cs/c-12#se:3
- Every person is the possessor of the fundamental freedoms, including freedom of conscience, freedom of religion, freedom of opinion, freedom of expression, freedom of peaceful assembly and freedom of association.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disparate_impact
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_genocide
A province that respects human rights wouldn’t do this.
It’s literally a piece of cloth.
Right…
Damn, I was hoping we wouldn’t have your type around here.
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This is not how Canada operates. Canada isn’t a melting pot.
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The law is specifically about arbitrating the display of religious symbols in government institutions in order to enforce visible separation of church and state. It’s not saying that Muslims have to adopt a different culture. Also, it could very well be unconstitutional. That remains to be seen but there’s a high likelihood.
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If you aren’t considering what the downside of this type of law is, then I don’t think you’re engaging beyond stating your beliefs. Clearly there are problems with it and people have expressed them. And as I said it is likely to be found unconstitutional.
You aren’t even Canadian. You quite literally don’t even understand that Quebec is simply one region of Canada and their culture is different from the rest of us in many unique and important ways.
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I’m not living in Canada, I currently live in Germany (just because this is the Canada „sub“ doesn’t mean everyone who is active here lives in Canada right now)
My apologies, I misread your previous comment to mean that you found this thread randomly from your front page, not that you are here because you used to live here.
Either way, you seem to have forgotten that what Quebec does on its own has nothing to do with the rest of us. They even have their own legal system.
The Canada I believe in is a mixture of cultures and beliefs. Saying they should assimilate to our (white) ways conflicts with that.
With your logic, western countries should stop talking about lack of human right in certain countries.
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You are spreading misinformation: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/germany-bans-pork-under-sharia-law/
And of course Islam is as European as Christianity is Middle Eastern: both are true.
Legault keeps “solving” problems that don’t exist to try to appear more nationalistic than the PQ.
They are just pushing moral panic against Muslims to appear like they are doing something to protect QC culture. At the same the same time they have defunded french language classes. And they keep not saying anything about how the feds are consistently discriminating against African francophone potential immigrants.
There is no culture war with Muslims in actual Quebec society beyond the shit the CAQ is stirring to stay in the news. There are no armies of niqab wearing fanatics trying to take over our cities. But it costs the government nothing to push this crap. This is all shadowboxing for appearances.
Eliminate tax free status of ALL religions. Fine and charge all public displays of religion that are outside of their own properties, be it private or congregations. So sick and tired of seeing our laws bend to include or exclude religions. It’s a wonder that after 3000 some years that the Abrahamics still have this much pull.
The Canadian charter of rights and freedoms guarantees freedom of religion. That means freedom to worship in private or public. Unless you’re planning on bending the constitution, you can’t remove public display of religion in Canada.
Forgive my ignorance, but can the charter of rights and freedoms be amended?
I am an anti-theist, and would love nothing more than to ban all public displays of all religions.
It can be amended of course, but you mentioned bending the laws to accomodate religion. I’m just setting that part straight. The laws (in Canada) aren’t bent to allow for religious freedom, they guarantee it.
It’s worth considering the material conditions upon which the Charter was created. Religion was prevalent and religious people wanted to be free from being persecuted for their religion. Today irreligious people in Canada are about a third. If we amended the Charter to curb public religious display, it would go against the majority of Canadians. That’s undemocratic, and unrepresentative of the reality of the country. If some gov did that, it would likely experience severe backlash and the changes would be reversed to more closely match the material conditions.
I’m also an anti-theist and would love religion to disappear, but I think that cannot occur through repression via law or other means. Rather people of religious cultures have to go through the material evolution secular societies have. The Eastern bloc did a lot of work to repress religion. Yet irreligious people are still a minority in those countries.
I am anti-theist, and fuck no to banning public displays of anything. It’s in the name - public. Public space belongs to everyone. Freedom of expression should not be a privilege restricted to people who can afford to buy or rent a place to exercise it.
If you can prove harm, we can ban the harm. Any and all bans must be tightly focused on restricting only harm and to a greater degree than it inherently restricts freedom. Elsewise, we’re just oppressing dissent/diversity and essentially abandoning freedom itself as a core value. And the fact that we’re talking about dictating what people can do on or with their own bodies raises the stakes that much higher. Seriously, this is a dangerous path and the hazards far greater than any possible reward.
Tax religion. Remove their privilege. Do not create a new underclass.
So what is the difference between you and the Taliban? I guess that the Taliban stops at clothing while you also want to force your ideology on people.
Golly, I wouldn’t want to force freedom on you.
But as long as you have it, you can always exercise it to go somewhere you won’t. Try doing the reverse.
While I don’t doubt your stance comes from a history of trauma, policing any kind of identity in this way causes real trauma to others. It causes a pervasive sense of isolation that is antithetical to feeling supported and secure and puts a check on a person’s ability to participate in their culture. Your lack of comfort does not mend leveling the playing field of stripping away the comfort of others if it is being expressed peacefully.
Bans also very become a very fuzzy line. Most holidays are based off of religious festivals that are widely participated in by the secular and non-secular alike. Once someone starts making exceptions because a wide number of people like a specific one you start creating an artificial canon where minority cultures are oppressed while a narrative of “dominant culture” is allowed giving certain religious traditions cultural supremacy. For example people inside the Church have been trying to get rid of the multitude of pagan festivals that were rebranded as Christmas for eons. They ended up just rubber stamping it because taking away something beloved doesn’t go well. In a modern context you could try and rebrand Christmas to a non-religious holiday… But good luck. It’s layers of Christian over Pagan imagery and traditions fused into a gastalt religious melange. Any governing body that has tried to get rid of it before has spectacularly failed and leaving it be would quickly become a symbol to people who come from places with different dominant partially seclarized religious traditions that they remain cultural outsiders who don’t have the nessisary concensus to participate in public. It would translate directly into supremacy narratives.
It’s healthier for a society by far not to police the range of peaceful human expression and connection. People deserve to see themselves represented and connect with each other without needing to act like undercover spies in hostile territory.
Wrapping women up is the tool of oppression, so good for Canada.
Personally, I think all religions can go fuck themselfes and I also think that you are right, wrapping up women is a tool of oppression.
But this is exactly the same: Forcing women what (not) to wear. This is bad for those who want to wrap themselfes up and this is bad for those who get problems with their shitty families who don’t want them to go to such places. So fuck that shit, too.
You are right all women should be forced to go to school naked.
ah yes, teaching’s famous “second paycheck”
Despite all your raging comments in this thread, I still don’t know what your stance is. The weak straw man argument isn’t helping.
Preventing people from practicing their religion is obviously bad. Especially when there is no justification to do so.
This is akin to Uyghur “reeducation camps” and I am not being hyperbolic. But apparently it is only bad when China does it.
Yeah I can tell you’re not commenting to convince anyone, you’re just commenting to vent your frustrations. I get it, no worries. I mean the world is pretty shitty right now, and if you’re thinking Canada and China and equally evil authoritarian regimes, yeah I guess all us commenters are equally not worth the effort. Have a good weekend mate, keep up the good fight against… everyone.
You can walk away from the argument when you lose it by pretending to have the moral high ground.
It only requires ignoring Canada’s origins of forced assimilation into colonial culture
Women can make that decision for themselves, individually, based on what they are comfortable with.
These can’t. Ask their owner, i mean dad.
Just like the women in Iran/Afghanistan. They can do whatever they want there. Put on a bikini, shorts etc. Totally free to do what their husbands tell them to. Maybe I’ll send my two daughters.
Or if they want to get dragged back to a country where they can be stoned to death.
What does this even mean? A woman whose family is going to bring her back to their native country for punishment often does so because she won’t wear a covering, which this law will support by forcing women not to cover. A woman who does wear a covering (forced or otherwise) probably won’t be, so your argument doesn’t even make sense.
Bombed to death by American planes you mean?
Ah yes, because muslim family units are beacons of freedom, self-expression and feminism. No threats of shunning or violence, ever.
How this going to fix things the women may just start wearing it outside of schools?
It gives them a secular place to grow interpersonally and develop their critical thinking skills without a literal shroud of dogma over their eyes.
Where’s your critical thinking gone? If racist wankers like you are gonna take it as a given that the typical Muslim household in Canada is extremely controlling, would it not be logically consistent of you to conclude that this sort of policy will just force women out of those “secular places” where they interact with the broader community and isolate them in religious spaces which you consider to be harmful?
A hijab or any other religious signs do not prevent critical thinking.
Religious dogma does prevent critical thinking, actually. Secular places of learning are critical for the young and easily influenced to be able to develop their own belief structure, or lack thereof, without the influence of family or community exerting often overwhelming social pressure.
Trying to moral high ground about violence in 2025
Great non-sequitor. You’re clearly not obsessed with a certain topic and shoving it into every unrelated conversation, are you?
Where did your moral high ground go?
You’re arguing with yourself, no one said anything about moral high ground but you. Get a life.
Why are you trying to dodge your stereotype? You were so gladly using those a few comments ago.
“In Quebec, we made the decision that state and the religion are separate,” said Education Minister Bernard Drainville
What is religion anyway? Worshiping men (politicians) is okay, but worshiping Allah is not?
As someone else pointed out, even from a liberal pov, this is wrong as it is anti-freedom and anti-personal autonomy. Women should have the right to choose what to wear according such a philosophy. Using the unconvincing loophole of “but they were forced to wear hijab” to turn this into something pro-freedom/pro-autonomy hardly changes that fact.
It’s a dangerous path to take, as these politicians will not only step on Muslims’ rights, but also set a precedent that the government (a few elites) can dictate when people are wearing too much. It also undermines the entire notion of protecting women’s rights.
Medical Assistance In Dying (MAID) should have been a red flag that Canada’s rulers are mildly deranged along with being morally bankrupt.
Suppose Canada goes 100% banning such idiocy, now, where do you want to live ?
In your head, rent-free.
Thanks for the humor and light tone, have a nice day, take care 😋
Can the fucking French stop trying to take cloth off Muslim women for one fucking second?
Good. Ban displays of crucifixes and necklaces with crosses as well.
Religious symbols have no place in tax payer funded institutions.
Are the taxpayers paying for the hijabs?
