I’ve been using Linux exclusively for about 8 years. Recently I got frustrated with a bunch of issues that popped one after another. I had a spare SSD so I decided to check out Windows again. I’ve installed Windows 11 LTSC. It was a nightmare. After all the years on Linux, I forgot how terrible Windows actually is.
On the day I installed the system and a bunch of basic software, I had two bluescreens. I wasn’t even doing anything at that time, just going through basic settings and software installation. Okay, it happens. So I installed Steam and tried to play a game I’ve been currently playing on Linux just to see the performance difference. And it was… worse, for some reason. The “autodetect” in game changed my settings from Ultra to High. On Linux, the game was running at the 75 fps cap all the time. Windows kept dropping them to around 67-ish a lot of times. But the weirdest part was actual power consumption and the way GPU worked. Both systems kept the GPU temperature at around 50C. But the fans were running at 100% speed at that temperature on Windows, while Linux kept them pretty quiet. I had to change the fan controls by myself on Windows just because it was so annoying. The power consumption difference was even harder to explain, as I was getting 190-210W under Linux and under Windows I got 220-250W. And mind you, under Linux I had not only higher graphical settings set up, but was also getting better performance.
I tried connecting my bluetooth earbuds to my PC. Alright, the setup itself was fine. But then the problems started. My earbuds support opus codec for audio. Do you think I can change the bluetooth codec easily, just like on Linux? Nope. There is no way to do it without some third party programs. And don’t even get me started on Windows randomly changing my default audio output and trying to play sound through my controller.
Today I decided to make this rant-post after yet another game crashed on me twice under Windows. I bought Watch Dogs since it’s currently really cheap on Steam. I click play. I get the loading screen. The game crashed. I try again. I play through the basic “tutorial”. After going out of the building, game crashed again. I’m going to play again, this time under Linux.
I’ve had my share of frustrations under Linux, but that experience made me realise that Windows is not a perfect solution either. Spending a lot of time with Linux and it’s bugs made me forget all the bad experience in the past with Windows, and I was craving to go back to the “just works” solution. But it’s not “just works”. Two days was all it took for me to realize that I’ll actually stick with Linux, probably forever. The spare SSD went back to my drawer, maybe so I can try something new in the future. It’s so good to be back after a short trip to the other side!
Amen. This is similar to the experience I have too. When I use Windows I have as many if not more problems. If I was only using a web browser, like most non-power users, I would have across the board worse issues on windows.
Yeah when I see people say that gaming on Linux “isn’t there yet” I have to wonder how long it’s been since they’ve tried. And people who install Windows on their Steam Deck? Don’t get it.
people who install Windows on their Steam Deck?
I see this way too often, nearly half of the 2nd hand Decks sold here have Windows🤷♂️
It’s interesting seeing the variety of experiences in this thread. I definitely had to fight Linux to get it setup and stable on my machine, but ever since then it’s been rock solid in a way I’ve never experienced with a Windows install.
Windows has a mind of its own…and being at the mercy of their update cadence or w/e other nonsense Microsoft is pushing sucks.
Meanwhile on Linux, I’ve had two CPUs that have C-State/P-State issues (5900x, 1700x), some weirdness with my audio interface, and a GPP0 bug that interferes with sleep. All of them are fixed or managed on Bazzite now, and it took plenty of digging for docs/reddit threads but now it’s rock solid.
On Windows, any time I’ve needed to deal with the Microsoft Store I run into issues that require registry fixes, uninstall/reinstalling various things, etc. Sea of Thieves and Forza Horizon 5 had issues launching as a result on Windows but not on Linux.
Ultimately, not being under the Microsoft gun is such a relief that the initial battle is completely put out of my mind. I’ve had some instances where I’ll boot into Windows for games, or HDR/Atmos support more reliably for my living room setup, but they have gotten rarer and rarer over the past couple of months.
For the record, Sea Of Thieves is also available as a standalone purchase through Steam, bypassing the Microsoft Store and their half abandoned UWP format entirely. Never had any issues with the Steam version on Windows.
The microsoft store sells games? I thought that was only used to occasionally update your xbox for pc controllers by grabbing the xbox accessories app. Never seen the microsoft store otherwise.
I think the Xbox App somewhat serves content through the Microsoft Store, I definitely had to troubleshoot between the two for a couple things.
They do sell games as well. I think I got an episode of the Batman Telltale series through it for free, though much like Epic managing an additional library with less features/support is usually not worth it for me.
Ah sorry, guess I should have tagged it as sarcastic.
Honestly I think this may have happened on the Steam version for me, I ended up reinstalling on Linux same-day and didnt have the same issue.
IIRC it had something to do with the Xbox Game Bar/App registry entries that still applied to the Steam version. I had definitely used the UWP version before though, so it’s possible it was that or that had contributed.
But downloading it on Bazzite and just having it work was…a little bizarre to experience.
Does Sea of Thieves work on Linux? I thought it had kernel anti-cheat.
It works! Looks like some people have run into issues with EAC but it worked without finicking around for me.
I dunno, I dont think it’s normal to get two blue screens on a fresh windows install.
Windows audio really is trash though, I’m totally with you there.
Windows will never have the flexibility of JACK
what is jack?
the alternative to gstreamer. both were precursors to pipewire, which aims to meet both use cases.
Yeah on my Linux desktop, it’s plugged into the TV for watching shows, so I sometimes switch between the PC Line Out and HDMI audio. The Linux audio logic seems to be “I’ll stay at whatever you last set me to, until you set me to something else”, which makes perfect sense.
On Windows, it seems to be some combination of whatever device Windows thinks was last plugged in (which is very rarely what was actually plugged in last) whether it’s an audio device or not, combined with the phase of the moon in whatever location Windows thinks it’s in (which is also rarely correct.)
i setup my old job with linux internally. never had issues. day i quit boss told me to install windows so he can find a replacement employee. sure.
3 years later. boss wants me back. they’ve had nothing but problems. but i’m not allowed to install linux again.
he says, “if windows didn’t have so many problems you would be out of a job.”
I just reinstalled and configured Windows for a friend who’s machine was hacked, so my frustration with Microsoft is very fresh. (She lost 8 thousand dollars of her savings she’s still trying to get back.) After years of using Linux I feel like I’m being punished every time I help someone with their Windows machine.
/Rant
These things in particular drive me nuts:
- Sending everything users do and type (including passwords) back to Microsoft. It’s called spyware when other companies do it.
- Flooding 1/2 the screen with web results when a search is done from the start menu. I’m looking for an installed program, not a potato recipe.
- Requiring a registry edit to turn that web search off and lots of other simple things that use to be configurable in settings.
- Placing ads throughout the operating system and making it difficult to turn those ads off.
- Forcing the use of the Edge browser no matter what users choose.
- Preventing the removal of unwanted programs without editing the registry.
- Forcing upgrades at Microsoft’s convenience.
- Force restarts of the operating system causing data loss for (likely) millions of users.
- Removing more and more user settings with each new OS release.
- Burying commonly used menu items multiple menus deep.
- Preventing the removal of Start menu items. I will never use the Xbox Game Bar no matter how many time I’m forced to see it.
/
Sending everything users do and type (including passwords) back to Microsoft. It’s called spyware when other companies do it.
Do you have any proof that Microsoft keylogs you? That’s quite a serious claim.
Recall?
Have you tried a Google search?
Your claim, your burden.
Tempted to put this through let me google that for you just to be smug, but here’s the direct link instead since I’m sure I’d also need to click the results for you. Do I need to read this to you too?
https://windowsreport.com/disable-keylogger-windows-11/
Not even my claim, yet I googled it for you. Guess the burden is on a third party who happened to know this common knowledge already.
LOL! You’ve got a very long wait. I suggest you hold your breath.
This is very unproductive for discussion
Anyone who’s so lazy they literally refuse to type the same words used in their comment into a search engine doesn’t deserve to be taken seriously. There are lots of adults on Lemmy, but apparently we have a few children too.
It isn’t about laziness it’s about principles.
I simply won’t argue with someone that refuses to provide their sources. Doesn’t matter if they say something dubious about Windows, say that vaccines cause autism, or that the earth is flat.
What if he used sign language and could still hold his breath?
That sucks about your friend. I can relate.
Scammers hacked my elderly mother on her windows laptop. They tricked her with an ad saying there was a problem with her computer, and they had her install remote access software. She mentioned seeing the terminal so I assumed they installed (at least) a keylogger. Luckily, they either ran out of time, or their con took two days, but they said they were going to call my mom the next day and have her log in to the bank to make sure her computer was still working.
So, I wiped her computer and installed Linux Mint with auto updates set up. She only had one simple question about logging in to google chrome and that’s been it for the last month. She has just been using it no problem.
Side note: The next day the scammers had the nerve to call my mom and ask her why her computer was turned off.
My friend got a call from “Best Buy” technical support saying they’d noticed her computer was slow and followed their instructions to set up remote access. Unfortunately she didn’t realize that there was anything to be worried about. It wasn’t until months later when she left the computer on and unattended that the scammers took control. Fidelity wired the money out of her account before she saw the notification and Fidelity has been jerking her around ever since. She’s still badly shaken.
I’d put her on Mint, but as much as I enjoy her company I don’t want to be permanent tech support for her computer.
Windows is so annoying like why does it always display word, excel etc when I don’t own it. These are paid programs that I do not own they should not be coming up in search results when I’m looking for a word processor.
I used to work for a Fortune 500 tech company that dealt with thousands of other businesses. Someone on the executive team decided that everyone in the company should be actively pushing our products every time they had customer contact. Customer calls about a bill? Sell them something. They have a major problem and are angry about it? Sell them something. Need to use their bathroom? Sell them something.
It just irritated our customers and didn’t result in any more sales. It seems that executive got a job at Microsoft.
oh the times ive seen people at my work try an sell soemthing to an angry customer. It always fails and results in the customer being pissed off and insulted. It should be obvious that if someone is paying you to solve a problem and your software is not working and causing them to complain they are not in the mood to buy another thing to solve the problem they are already paying you to solve.
Forcing upgrades at Microsoft’s convenience.
This is the only one I agree with. Upgrades are necessary for security, it’s just a fact of life.
The problem isn’t the updates. The problem is microsoft downloading things and restarting my pc without my consent (annoying me until I say “fine, do it” is not consent). No one but me decides when my machine installs updates and reboots. I know I’m putting myself at risk if I let my system fall behind on updates. That’s on me, it’s my computer, it is my right to make that decision.
The problem is, that most people would then not update, get issues, land in a thread like this, make propaganda against Windows, since something doesn’t work or is insecure, when in fact the problem is in front of the screen, who always denied the update, that fixes those issues… That is why upgrades are rightfully enforced. At some point, you gotta upgrade or stop using the system.
If i have to suffer because I’m a dumb dumb, that’s on me. I’m tired of suffering because other people are stupid.
It’s not just your decision though. Like vaccinations, your decision affects everyone else so it’s not your decision alone.
Vaccinations are pretty much your choice.
Sure. And this is why we have measles outbreaks still today.
Nobody’s writing a NixOS virus to target me. Even if I download a linux virus it will probably complain about unmet dependencies
Not talking about viruses despite the vaccine comparison.
Software has vulnerabilities, even on NixOS.
Sure, all software has vulnerabilities, I just don’t think people will bother to exploit my particular software combination since it’s rare
NixOS is not special there. It runs the same software as any other Linux distro.
absofuckinglutely.
On my kid’s laptop I was holding Windows 11 24H2 back because of Recall, but this week it just decided to install itself. Now it’s a Linux laptop.
See? They forced you to upgrade to Linux, now you’re more secure!
FYI: Recall is delayed and will only work on specific arm computers anyway. So you weren’t in at any immediate risk. Not arguing against installing Linux though. That’s great!
Yep. The difference is simply put just ppl are used to the quirks on Windows but not on Linux.
How to install an application on Windows
- You hear about some application
- You google the application name
- You get a bunch of links
- You click the first one (and hope it’s valid and not hijacked by malware ads)
- You scan the webpage to find the correct download button (and hope it’s not an ad link)
- Download the application
- Double-click the application.exe
- Windows UAC pops up which you have to allow
- Install start and you click next, next, next (You hope the installer does not change your homepage or install some browser toolbar)
- Installation finished
Windows is so much easier /s
- Forgot scan app with virus total
- Investigate if hits are false positives
- Get frustrated and run exe any way
I think you were being biased.
- You heard the name of the software
- You search on Google, which takes you to their official website
- You click on the download button and download it
- Double click on the file and follow the on-screen guide to finished the installation
How to install the app on Linux.
You search for it. Highly likely it is not available or barely functional.
IF it works, it’s only packaged for Ubuntu, Debian and Arch. If you use Nix or something even more niche, good luck with proprietary software or sometimes even openly available open source software.
Most of the time, the package is available on the standard package manager which makes the process extremely simple. Hardest part is knowing the package name. If you know
apt search, you don’t even have to search on the browser to find the package name. But certain packages are only available as tar.gz or as source. But those are usually not encountered by newbies.If someone is using Nix, they generally don’t have trouble finding packages. Also, Nix has more packages compared to AUR.
Or, you DO find it, but it’s glitchy/outdated (I think there was an issue with Steam). Or you search for the program, find the website, download a .tar.gz, wonder what the hell is this double extension abomination, double click it, doesn’t work, look it up, apparently it’s a type of container like a zip and not a basic program like an exe and instead of using the GUI like a normal person you have to type “tar -xcv” or something that might as well be black magic (I can’t even remember the correct letters), then to actually install you have to find the magic “make” “sudo make install” command, and it still fails.
Much easier to double click the .exe, accept the license agreement, and hit continue a few times.
Tbf, winget is a god sent and works surprisingly well, took them what? 30 years to get it done?!
winget is everything which Windows fanboys are against. Don’t get me wrong, it’s fantastic (terminals ftw). However, I remember people often smirked about the fact that in Linux you have to type commands to install something and the GUI method is much superior.
Exactly. It took me 4 hours a couple months ago to get a scanner to work on our Windows 11 PC. It turns out there was some Windows Image Acquisition service built in that had to be disabled because it was conflicting with the driver of the scanner. Absolute insanity lmao
I told one of my friends about this since my friends sometimes tease me about using Linux, their response was get a better scanner.
lol
Just today I logged into a Workstation at work, just to see 2 versions of Teams being auto launched. And no, no one installed 2 Versions, it was Windows.
Literally the same story happened on Linux in the span of decades countless times. On Windows? Cannot remember this happening more than once.
Yea, I have to use windows at work presently and I hate every second of fighting with it.
Windows doesn’t even have a fully functional implementation of focusing windows on hover, a common feature of any Linux system WM I have ever used. There is a setting to do this in Windows accessibility settings, and it’s true, it DOES change focus on hover; but it DOESN’T change the functionality of foreground windows getting pushed behind those windows, making it pretty much pointless, and actually more annoying to use.
Also just the performance is such shit, probably because it’s now designed to be doing hundreds of unnecessary telemetry tasks at all time on the back end. Also what the fuck is with every piece of Windows software configuring itself to run on boot or as a service? So incredibly annoying.
Fedora Linux has been the most stable OS in my experience, having used Windows XP to 10 and switching to Linux before 11 came out. I can leave it on for literally weeks on end and the memory never randomly fills up, nor does it get more and more glitchy/crash prone as you leave it on, both of which I have experienced on Windows.
In my experience, Fedora tends to be what a lot of developers settle on after distro hopping. This is by no way universal and RedHat has issues. But at some point, the OS and desktop environment become background noise compared to your own code and IDE. Younger people probably have different preferences — and they should — but you get more experienced and you have your setup. If my laptop dies, I can get back to coding quicker with Fedora than any other distro and it’s almost always stable.
In the end, a computer is a tool and being skilled with an old tool can be better than being new to a more modern tool. I still use the same brand/type power drill that I used in high school/college when I worked construction in the summers. (Dewalt and I’d rather the old 18v but they switched to 20v. I have an adapter to charge either battery, though, so it’s fine.)
My main issue with Windows isn’t its technology, but its attitude. The user is no longer the most important consideration. In that way it’s become adversarial.
Windows is fine for me. I work with it all day long too. But yeah Windows is just another enshitification product.
In that way it’s become adversarial.
Back in the 2000s, I was able to say that while a fundamental install took only about a half hour to set up, usability tweaks and a full fleshing out of functionality took another 4-8 hours depending on what the user was going to use the machine for.
I just did a Win11 24h2 install. It took nearly 24 working hours before I considered it even minimally functional for my needs. Cycling through Win10Privacy two or three times was particularly frustrating. Registry work alone took me a good 8-10 hours of trying stuff a step at a time and then rebooting to see how it worked.
At this point, the only reason why I am still running with a Windows rig is for those half-dozen programs that don’t have appropriate non-Windows variants. It’s why I’m also running a Mac Mini and an OpenSUSE tower through the same 4-port, 6-head KVM.
Indeed it is difficult to hammer it in to shape. In addition, Microsoft will often quietly reset setting back in their favour. It’s that constant fight that tipped the scales for me.
Put it in a VM?
VM
That still doesn’t solve 99.9% of my issues, it just tries to solve a problem for which I already have a solution actively in-place: a KVM.
It’s definitely an abusive relationship.
Yes. I prefer my os to be more passively adversarial. Like Gentoo. It hates everything equally.
Eh, Gentoo is pretty quiet most of the time once you’ve got it installed. After that, you just have to keep an eye on it and make sure it doesn’t go off its meds (although once every few years, it will come up with a weird and wonderful way of doing so that you can’t block.)
All operating systems suck, some just suck harder than others.
Yeah that’s hard to see when i have to boot windows for work every weekday.
The issues are the little things, like 300ms lag here or there where things are instant on Linux. Or the flashing taskbar icon when an app wants your attention. Or the obfuscated settings. Or the ‘everything is an edge applet’. Or the cpu fans racing to send data back and forth with MS services. (Seriously try simplewall sometime. It’s scary to see the connections, and blocking them makes your computer silent)
Booting into Linux at the end of the day is such a relief every single time.
Now I’m imagining an angry Gentoo penguin snapping at fingers any time someone wants to use their PC 😅
My work just changed from gsuite to m365 and it is atrocious. Obviously fuck google but god damn if microsoft arent just the worst at designing UI and considering actual consumer concerns when dsigning programs. Quit your job if they change to office.
Bluetooth is so bad on Windows. You cannot simply “reconnect” a headset
You have to unpair and pair each time you want to use it.
This was with Intel Bluetooth too which works extremely well, under Linux and Macos.
I had to transfer files over Bluetooth to a Windows PC. Fuck that is terrible compared to doing it on my Linux PC.
Oh yeah I just use magic wormhole now for file transfer it’s much more reliable
What? That’s just not true. If I turn on my Bluetooth earbuds they reconnect to my laptop right away as that’s the last thing they were paired to
I will say I had a lot of trouble with Bluetooth (bluez) on Linux, but I think it mainly comes down to the implementation. I have a cheap dongle and pairing gamepads has been a nightmare sometimes.
I’m no great fan of windows, but I have no issues reconnecting to bluetooth things. Kinda the opposite really, my phone and windows keep wanting to compete for who gets to be connected to my headset as soon as I turn it on, I have to make sure to turn off bluetooth when I’m done with it. I think the problem may be on your end in this case.
If anyone wants a great terminal bluetooth manager, use blutuith (https://github.com/darkhz/bluetuith)
My friend uses the same headset on Linux, that I use on Windows.
When he “mutes” his headset, it is not actually muted on Linux. It is not really fixable. Obviously, on Windows it just works.
Windows Bluetooth paired my Google Pixel Buds Pro once and refused to unpair or delete them no matter what I tried, but would happily connect to them every time I booted the system. I had to literally wipe the install clean and start fresh before it was ever fixed. And those same earbuds worked everywhere else, even my fucking gaming laptop with a MediaTek wireless card running Arch. genuinely the worst experience I’ve had with Bluetooth so far.
Yep exactly my experience with several Bluetooth headphones.
Fine on my Android as well.
Windows just seems to always struggle with Bluetooth and printers.
The problem with Windows is that it is not build to be parametrised. Anyone a bit tech-savy will be frustrated by the inability to tune it effectively for its need.
The problem with Linux is that it is not tech-normie friendly. Sure it has distribution easy to use and pre-parametrised so anyone with basic computer skill can use it. But people with basic computer skill don’t have computers with Linux. Anyone who just want to use a computer has to first learn how to install an OS.Good points.
The problem with Linux is that it is not tech-normie friendly.
That probably was true 15 years ago. That is absolutely not true now. This misconception stems from the fact that most tech normies have a lot of experience with Windows through job, so people assume Windows is friendly, but in reality they just know how it works.
Learning how to use Linux is dead easy. It’s not popular because it’s not pre installed, as you said, but it’s not because the OS is bad, it’s because Linux doesn’t have multibillion corporation behind it to make sure its everywhere.I tend to disagree, I do have several devices running Linux and with all of them I had issues after install (standby not working, swap partition not recognized, sound only playing on half of the speakers, issues with monitor scaling etc…) Im fine with it and like the journey, but there are still quirks.
Probably Im in an in-between-world where I do have some tricky use-cases, but missing the full know-how to do it…
thing which makes it not normy-usable, are the documentations: for windows issues you can find DAU-conform guides to solve something. Mostly on “official” (with probably too many ads) pages.
For Linux it’s usually a rabbit hole of official documentations (which dont show all the options), forums, reddit pages, where some guy tells another guy to add xyz to the config file…without telling which file and where in the file. Why is this command not listed in the documentation? What does that command actually do?
It has gotten much better, but there’s still some way to go
[…] in reality they just know how it works
In my experience, they know how a few utilities and how a handful of programs work, but have no idea how Windows works. Not that many people actually know how Windows works.
Roughly figuring out the boot sequence of Linux is relatively easy once you’ve used it for a year or two. What happens when Windows boots? Who knows? kernel32 probably is involved at some point.Linux/Unix is actually relatively simple and logical once you’ve figured it out. Windows is a messy dark maze with grues waiting at every corner to eat you.
They don’t know how it works, but they roughly kind of know how to operate it. And they mistake their years of experience for the intuitivness.
i almost forget how much it sucks whenever i’m not forced to use it for a while.
I just installed Linux Mint yesterday. Can’t wait to get home to continue playing around with it. I like it so far!
I can’t relate to this at all.
We use windows machines as software developers at work and really have no issues at all. Never had a bluescreen in these two years.
I use windows at home to play Factorio, Minecraft, and RDR2. Again, never had an issue. No blue screens. I turn it on open steam and play my games then turn it off when done.
I tried Linux again cause I got sucked in by this echo chamber and that did not go well at all. I explicitly said I don’t want to have to be a nerd in my free time to manage Linux which I was assured isn’t the case. Then one day I turn it on and have no sound and no idea why it just died. I swiftly removed Linux and went back to windows.
I do use Linux for servers for Jellyfin and stuff and I like it for those things, but me personally have had a better experience using windows and I can’t understand all these people against it.
Was windows dev for 10 years, I switched to Linux for work and I’m never going back : everything is simpler (may not be easier though) and makes sense whereas you constantly work against the system in windows. It’s an opinion so widespread they even made a subsystem to use Linux tools on windows. As a user windows installation is an utter nightmare, getting rid of the thousands stuff you don’t want is horrible. And also you may not even be able to install it without special ssd drivers that you have to side load manually (for some pretty basic asus hardware) Also don’t get me started on the nearly mandatory microsoft account 🤢
You don’t have to get rid of all the stuff, it doesn’t break the system like missing sounds or whatnot. Some of its even helpful like weather and news. Plus it isn’t that hard to make a Microsoft account, don’t you need one anyway for Minecraft? And since when do you need drivers for an SSD, don’t those usually work out of the box?
