Because to me, they seem like de facto "Agree and “Disagree” buttons, whether or not it was the intent.
This is a question of prescriptivism vs. descriptivism. People might say they shouldn’t be used as such, but I’ll bet a lot of people who say that are guilty of doing it anyway.
Practically yes, despite the way that they ought to be used.
It’s such a shame. Lemmy should be a place where we collectively share ideas and debate. Comments should only ever be downvoted if they’re off topic, hateful or misleading. However, in reality people get downvoted mostly because someone simply doesn’t like or wholly agree with the comment.
It’s still better here than reddits awful circlejerks but not by much and we should be weary of devolving to that state.
Just to let you know, you posted your reply 3 times. I downvoted the other 2 (consider deleting them).
Yes I noticed, sorry, bad internet connection, I have deleted them now.
That’s how I treat them. Maybe with a bit more nuance: I’ll upvote for something funny, informative things, or general good takes. I’ll downvote if someone has a bad take, is unnecessarily mean, or is generally incoherent.
If the comment doesn’t spark a reaction I just keep scrolling.
What you say and what you describe are not the same. Your explanation is literally how it was explained on the other site. So you are better than you think you are. =)
And I do it the same as you. Something I disagree with or don’t like but is reasonably argued and not mean or full of any -isms? No vote from me.
Often too I’ll upvote a highly downvoted comment because I don’t think it deserved to be downvoted as much as it was, even if it’s one I’d otherwise downvote. Unless it’s horrible, in which case I’ll pile the fuck on
It a comment was well thought out but I disagree, I comment or keep scrolling.
People are too lazy to do that, so they downvote.
They shouldn’t be used as such, but frequently are. It is even more difficult to distinguish between disagreement and insufficient argumentation.
Sometimes. I think the meaning of the arrows are somewhat contextual.
Downvoting spam for example isn’t “disagreement”, but it is a kind of disapproval.
Upvoting your post isn’t “agreement”, but I do it because I think it’s an interesting question (maybe a kind of approval)?
If we generalized I guess we could ask whether upvotes are always relating positive emotion and downvotes always relating negative emotion?
I wouldn’t “agree” with a joke
That is, are upvotes “yays” and downvotes “boos”?
I still upvote posts in news communities informing me of terrible things, so upvote isn’t necessarily a yay. Downvote might be boo, though
I honestly wish there was a moderation system like Slashdot. You got a limited number of points each week, and you could vote comments “Insightful, Informative, Funny, Overrated, Spam” etc. Comments, etc could go up to +5 or down to -1; and you get a slider to determine at what point value comments are hidden at (+4, +2, etc)
It makes it so people can’t be buried into the ether by brigading (they’d have to keep up a sustained downvote campaign to continually knock it down to -1), and can ‘come back from the dead’ so-to-speak, and also allows categorization of comments and may even allow the filtering of joke-comments so that conversations stay on topic or just so that you engage with the serious content instead of low-quality stuff. This encourages people to comment more genuinely and productively.
That’s really interesting, but honestly I think I like the simplicity of upvote/downvote better. It seems like it would take a bit of tuning to get the Slashdot system to work as intended.
Well, the simplicity of the upvote/downvote buttons are what also cause the drawbacks of people using the system as “Agree” and “Disagree” buttons. I’m a solutions oriented guy. Everyone always bitches and moans over what the problem is, and nobody ever suggests solutions.
They do sometimes end up used as agree/disagree buttons, but they’re intended to be more about whether it’s good content that provides some value, and downvotes are when you don’t provide any value. This leave room for disagreement without downvoting a well written post that does add to the discussion.
I use downvotes for spam, and posts/comments what are just plainly wrong, incorrect, misleading or dangerous. Stuff I think is good gets upvoted, and stuff I disagree with but there’s otherwise nothing wrong with it, I don’t vote.
No, that’s the [other place] mentality. Upvote if you want to increase visibility to the post. For example, there may be a post with a link to an article about some politician doing something I disagree with. I would still upvote it if the post allows me to discuss why I disagree with said action.
Downvote if the content is harmful to the community (for example spam, overt racism, etc).
No, that’s the [other place] mentality.
Nah, it’s the same exact nonsense here too.
This is precisely how I use up and down votes.
I would also, as an example upvote something I think was incorrect if the was an insightful reply to it I felt people should see.
To clarify, I’m not talking about a troll post with a clever “dunk” reply.
Trolls always get downvoted.
"Agree and “Disagree” will just leave us in a Lemmy bubble.
They should be more about “good post or bad post”, so something that may be disagreeable gets upvotes if it is well stated.
Reward thought, creativity, etc, and let us all learn.
That would be nice but, no, it’s the agree/disagree button just like Reddit. There is honestly very little difference between Lemmy and reddit. Mostly just the numbers.
When you upvote a funny comic, does that mean you agree with it? Do you agree with cute cat pics?
It is more than just agree/disagree.
It wasn’t meant to be an agree/disagree button on Reddit either.
It’s meant for upvoting posts that contribute to the topic/community and downvoting stuff that doesn’t, such as spam or trolling.
Yep. Didn’t work out that way though just like it didn’t work out that way here
People get emotional over a comment and click the downvote as it makes them feel empowered, that’s how it always ends up. Maybe just having upvotes only would work better.
They should be more about “good post or bad post”, so something that may be disagreeable gets upvotes if it is well stated.
I don’t care how well stated some anti-vax or flat-earth bullshit is … It’ll get downvoted regardless because I disagree.
That would just be misinformation, something downvote was intended for.
That would just be misinformation
Sure, according to us. But you don’t actually need to be right to think you’re right. If someone believes the earth is flat, they’ll downvote “globe-talk” as misinformation, just as it was intended! So it all just comes back to (dis)agreeing.
Of course, but these examples are provably false. Flat earthers have accidentally disproved themselves many times.
If they are just having a giggle then whatever, but some are serious and that is damaging to the legitimacy of science, which is a dangerous path.
If the poster is open to discussion, perhaps some chat could make them reconsider their position. So I wouldnt necessarily downvote. Context is important, so I still wont just use it as a disagree button.
I know and I chose those two examples to illustrate that people will even disagree with stuff that is blatantly factual. So it just gets worse if you enter murkier territory, like politics or ethics where there is no firm factual basis.
I’m sure you won’t have to search too long for a very well written post by some tanky about how a North Korean style dictatorship is superior to western democracy. Should you upvote it just because it’s well written, even if you think the idology is insane and dangerous?
Agreed.
- Upvote: Adds to the community.
- Downvote: Doesn’t belong in this community.
Disagree
Downvoted
Agree. Upvoted.
Shouldn’t be but they tend to be.
Sometimes people just straight up use them as agree/disagree buta lot of folks struggle to admit that an argument in favour of something with which they disagree can still be a worthwhile argument.
I see the upvote and downvote count as an overall room temperature/vibe check.
Whenever votes are good everything’s chill, otherwise if approaching <50% happiness then I recheck/reflect and look for where I could’ve done better.
You can’t please everyone however most can still avoid making fools out of themselves by trying to learn and improve from past mistakes.
There are no up or down vote police. You use them as you like.
deleted by creator
Nobody’s going to upvote shit takes, obviously.
If someone’s being an asshole or an idiot, I’m going to downvote them.
If someone says something that needs saying, or that’s interesting or funny, I’m going to upvote it.
For posts, upvote means I want more of this, that’s some good content. Downvote means I want less of this, that’s some bad content.
For comments, upvote means good point, good joke, excellent addition to the conversation. Downvote means bad point, bad joke, poor addition to the conversation.
Now I admit I have a hard time upvoting a comment that adds a good point to the discussion, but I personally disagree with.
I do wish we had a way to separate good/bad content from agree/disagree. I know Reddit defaulted to hiding downvoted content, a default that I found reasonable. However using Lemmy, that wasn’t the default, and I’ve grown to prefer seeing all content. Don’t get me wrong, I see some garbage, and I see stuff I disagree with, but I think it’s useful.
I still like the old slashdot method where there were categories you could give to a comment. Was this insightful, or was it funny. I think the method has merits but I am not sure how well it scales as it is more complicated and requires the people moderating to give serious thought to WHY a comment is good or bad.
An upvote should be for quality content/discussion. This might be a well researched comment, a good joke, or just something that leads the discussion in a meaningful or interesting way. Generally, things I think should be valued or shared. There will obviously be bias, but my opinion isn’t the basis of my decision. I try to upvote good-faith or thorough arguments I disagree with.
Downvotes are for low-quality and unhelpful content that I think shouldn’t be spread. This doesn’t have to be irrelevant or against the community rules, but often is. Things I might downvote include overused reposts, unnecessarily rude or insulting comments, low quality comments (IE someone trying to argue a well cited comment with an anecdote and nothing else), or spam.
