The comments under the article are a special kind of braindead.
This is not an unusual comment section on Phoronix, to put it mildly.
That’s a fair point. I rarely read comments on news articles, but morbid curiosity overpowered my self-preservation instinct.
Yeah. Why is everyone saying this is removing their contribution credits? It’s just a list of active maintainers…
Always is with Phoronix comments.
You find everything there from “Gnome is satanist” all the way up to pro-genocide crap.
I really don’t know what it is about the site that brings out the craziest souch.
“Bcachefs sucks because I use ext4”
The absolute disregard of having any moderation is what does that. If there was any, there wouldn’t be the cases like having someone be there by their third account, after the first two got banned.
Not to mention that controversy = angry people and trolls = more clicks = more ad revenue. I don’t think Michael wants to miss out on it.
For half a second there, I was like “yeah, so glad Lemmy is more rational than that site”.
Few comments later, folks be talking about “Ukranian Nazis”…
Wholesome banderite chungus
I would wager that every country has far-right elements, including Russia.
What Russia claims though is that the Ukrainian government is full of Nazis, which I don’t think is true.
The wager isn’t whether countries have “far-right elements”. The wager is which country has a government that openly venerates a man who slaughtered Jews and Poles for sport. Maybe someday you will understand what happened here.
Hoo boy, you weren’t kidding. I find it amazing how quickly this went from “the kernel team is enforcing sanctions” to an an unfriendly abstract debate about the definition of liberalism. I shouldn’t, really, but I still am.
Lemmy.ml, it always is when it comes to simping for Russia
I don’t know what the hell is wrong with that instance.
are you a CIA bot or what? since when did people start ignoring facts and just repeat state department or fed propaganda? very strange.
🤣
Yeah, this Linux community should migrate to a less brain dead instance
Edgy tweens being edgy.
I just smoked weed and … smoked weed.
What in the reddit are these comments
Hahaha I saw the parent commentor of that chain notorious for getting into back and forth arguments, sometimes reasonable sometimes not, and I thought to myself, this is going to be fun. Then I recognized the username of that other .ml user as a known troll and I was like, yep now this is going to go way off the rails.
You must have missed yesterday’s thread when news broke lol, .ml admins will be here shortly to teach us kremlin history.
As to sending me a revert patch - please use whatever mush you call brains. I’m Finnish. Did you think I’d be supporting Russian aggression? Apparently it’s not just lack of real news, it’s lack of history knowledge too."
Peska perkele right up your asses, Russian trolls.
???
We couped Ukraine in 2014 and their CIA, the SBU is committing acts of terrorism against Russia on at least a bi-weekly basis. Also, they’ve killed and continue to kill tens of thousands of civilians in the independent republics, for some reason.The idea that Russia invaded Ukraine for no reason is absolutely brain dead
Reason: Russian bot
Reason: bot
- IT Pro: Cambridge Analytica models were exaggerated and ineffective, [UK Information Commissioner’s Office] claims
- Wall Street Journal: Mueller Doesn’t Find Trump Campaign Conspired With Russia
- Jacobin: Democrats and Mainstream Media Were the Real Kremlin Assets
- Washington Post: FEC fines DNC, Clinton for violating rules in funding Steele dossier
- Washington Post: Russian trolls on Twitter had little influence on 2016 voters
- Jacobin: It Turns Out Hillary Clinton, Not Russian Bots, Lost the 2016 Election
- Matt Taibbi: Move Over, Jayson Blair: Meet Hamilton 68, the New King of Media Fraud The Twitter Files reveal that one of the most common news sources of the Trump era was a scam, making ordinary American political conversations look like Russian spywork
- Jacobin: Why the Twitter Files Are in Fact a Big Deal On the Left, there’s been a temptation to dismiss the revelations about Twitter’s internal censorship system that have emerged from the so-called Twitter Files project. But that would be a mistake: the news is important and the details are alarming.
- MSNBC Repeats Hamilton 68 Lies 279 Times in 11 Minutes
- Jeff Gerth at Columbia Journalism Review on Russiagate: Editor’s Note | Part one | Part two | Part three | Part four
- Matt Taibbi: WMD, Part II: CIA “Cooked The Intelligence” To Hide That Russia Favored Clinton, Not Trump In 2016
- Chris Hedges: Why Russiagate Won’t Go Away
they’ve killed and continue to kill tens of thousands of civilians in the independent republics
Even if I assume the truth of that statement, do you not care about the deaths of Ukrainian civilians?
We couped Ukraine in 2014
My understanding is that Ukraine’s parliament (Rada) removed Yanukovych from his position as president. That seems fair to me. Many countries, including the US, have legal processes for removing their leaders.
How’s that Kool aid taste? You’re not even worth debating, it’s clear you’re a lost cause. Keep believing this, and let the rage build inside you.
remindme! 20 years, when mainstream media finally admits it because it doesn’t matter anymore.
Oh wait, they already admitted it.
- BBC, 2014: Ukraine underplays role of far right in conflict
- Human Rights Watch, 2014: Ukraine: Unguided Rockets Killing Civilians
- The Hill, 2017: The reality of neo-Nazis in Ukraine is far from Kremlin propaganda
- The Guardian, 2017: ‘I want to bring up a warrior’: Ukraine’s far-right children’s camp – video
- WaPo, 2018: The war in Ukraine is more devastating than you know
- Reuters, 2018: Ukraine’s neo-Nazi problem
- The Nation, 2019: Neo-Nazis and the Far Right Are On the March in Ukraine
- Jacobin, 2022: A US-Backed, Far Right–Led Revolution in Ukraine Helped Bring Us to the Brink of War
- NYT, 2024: U.N. Court to Rule on Whether Ukraine Committed Genocide
Huh. Lot of people Russian’ to conclusions in this thread.
Sorry.
Shhh. Let Linus Finnish.
Ok, dad.
Sorry for liking it.
Man, I wish he’d leave the communication to someone else. He is so, so bad at it. And this isn’t the first time
The way he attacks critics puts himself in a bad light. But much more importantly, I read this and am still unsure if he has administrative/legal reason, security reasons or political reasons…
If I’d work in Russian propaganda, I’d love this so much. Hope this will not cause disruption in the community.
It is inherently disruptive. And “knowing” Linus, if he apologizes for the communication, it won’t come soon enough.
Hey - an explanation. Who’da’thunk it?
Based Linus as always
Scratched liberals abound. It takes very liyyl3 for them to be racist and chauvinist.
Yes. What does “liberals” mean exactly?
It means supporters of the dominant ideology if capitalism, just like it has always meant.
Not at all true. If you’re referencing US ideologies of Capitalism, holy shit are you wrong and read the wrong Wikipedia.
In fact, the Democrats since the 60’s have run campaigns WAY against the threat of late-stage Capitalism. Republicans are the pro-capitalist party in the sense they want to privatize everything and help their friends, and also “deregulate” anything and everything.
These are anti-capitalist ideas.
Come on back with some more Wiki links, good buddy.
Not at all true. If you’re referencing US ideologies of Capitalism, holy shit are you wrong and read the wrong Wikipedia.
I am quite correct, though I am referring to liberalism in the general internationa sense. This is what liberalism always has been. You must understand it as what it is and has done, not what it tells you it is meant to be. As Stafford Beer said, it makes no sense to think that the purpose of something is what it consistently fails to do. The liberalism of the enlightenment had in its right hand brutal, racist colonial exploitation and in its left a ruthless industrial revolution chaining the people to factories and removing them from all commond and property. It is a product of capitalism itself.
In fact, the Democrats since the 60’s have run campaigns WAY against the threat of late-stage Capitalism.
The Democrats are a capitalist party and always have been. They do not work against capitalism at all, they support it and protect it. There is really such thing as late-stage capitalism, it is just capitalism developing over time, retaining most of its qualities but taking on new angles. Buy if it does mean anything, it means neoliberalism wrought by financialization, and that is Democrats’ main political base. It’s their main thing, especially as an export.
Republicans are the pro-capitalist party in the sense they want to privatize everything and help their friends
Democrats also do this they just tell you it is efficiency and “public-private partnerships” and “a generous endowment to a public institution” (that they can now defund). The charter school movement is largely Democrats, for example. They simply have different factions on their chopping block, different groups to pander to.
These are anti-capitalist ideas.
What ideas are anti-capitalist? I didn’t see any.
Come on back with some more Wiki links, good buddy.
No thanks. Read the political philosophers of the enlightenment, colonialism, industrialization and proletarianizatikn, the liberal revolutions in Europe, and who emerged to identify themselves as anti-liberal once those revolutions established their ideologies as mainstream, namely monarchists, fascists, socialists, and anarchists. You cannot gain a political education through Wikipedia, it is a Cliffs Notes approach to social topics often written by often incorrect or heavily propagandized (or propagandist!) People, including literal Nazi apologists.
Dubliette is referring to the thought-terminating cliché that every major US party doesn’t want to abolish capitalism (the economic system centered around capital, private ownership, etc.), ergo we’re all liberals.
thought-terminating cliché
There’s no argument, it’s the definition of the word. Why do you assume there should be argument around the normal usage of a word?
because for some reason, torvalds is bad now because he is a capitalist while nearly everyone is a capitalist. that’s the argument made.
I dunno how you can terminate a thought that never began
Lolbye
A thought-terminating cliché (also known as a semantic stop-sign, a thought-stopper, bumper sticker logic, or cliché thinking) is a form of loaded language, often passing as folk wisdom, intended to end an argument and quell cognitive dissonance.[1][2] Its function is to stop an argument from proceeding further, ending the debate with a cliché rather than a point. Some such clichés are not inherently terminating. They only become so when used to intentionally dismiss dissent or justify fallacious logic.[3]
In fact, the Democrats since the 60’s have run campaigns WAY against the threat of late-stage Capitalism.
Bruh what world are you living in lmao. Obama reached to bankers uncaringly tanking the global economy by giving them money to do with as they wished (and, as always, they wished to give themselves a bonus).
Yes. What does “liberals” mean exactly?
I don’t think there’s any possibility of useful discussion of linux happening here so we may as well discuss that.
The tension between the various meanings of the word “liberal” is complex, and it very much depends on the context. Historically, liberalism referred to political philosophies that featured liberty — individual autonomy and freedom — as their central ideal. It was the idea that the state and other organizing powers should be generously permissive, allowing all to do as they please to the greatest extent deemed possible. Over time the word has sometimes come to instead be more closely associated with narrow kinds of liberty, such as the freedom of the ruling classes to exploit everyone else. In an American context over the course of the 20th century it came to have particular connotations of hypocrisy as reflected for example in the lyrics of that Phil Ochs song you’ve probably heard. These days it is sometimes even used as shorthand for what was previously called “neoliberalism.” Its meanings can range even further into the unorthodox. In this thread for example, its use is more likely to convey a message along the lines of “this affront to Glorious Mother Russia has made me all pissy.”
Wow, some real clown behavior from Linus.
People are upset at Linus like he started the war
Russians FAFO
We’re gonna start seeing large open source communities start to break into smaller ones because of sanctions from now aren’t we?
This sets such a bad precedent…
The bad precedent was starting a war
Yeah I’m sure the maintainers are in talks with Putin directly
Maybe not Putin personally, but it’s an autocracy. If/when the Russian government comes knocking on their door and tells them that they need to do x, y, and z with the kernel, otherwise they will mysteriously fall from a high window (an extremely credible threat these days), what do you think they’ll do? What do you think you would do?
Sucks for the majority of Russian developers that want to participate in the FOSS community, but I get it. It is a national security issue.
This is kind of how sanctions are meant to work. We could have a discussion about whether or not sanctions should be used as it is sort of a form of collective punishment, but that’s a separate argument.
They want regular Russians to “feel it,” so that there is more pressure from the populace to get them to stop doing the shit they were sanctioned over. Obviously, in an autocracy, it’s much easier to just ignore and suppress dissent. But, generally, the idea is to make everybody feel the consequences for invading a sovereign nation.
Any moderator want to actually let me know why my comment was removed, or…?
Is pointing out the dangers of working in an autocratic nation against the rules?
I can see the comment dude.
If/when the Russian government comes knocking on their door and tells them that they need to do x, y, and z with the kernel
CIA could do that.
Ah yes. The Finnish CIA.
They have one?
Arguably, ITAR set the precedent in the 1990’s during the crypto wars. USians used to have to travel to Canada to work on cryptographic code in OpenBSD because their commits couldn’t legally be exported.
You don’t need sanctions. I’ve seen you petty fucks fork projects over a font.
They’ll fight over fonts meanwhile WordPress is on fire and where are the forks?
Or a name
BringFork out the GIMP!gimp-qt
:3
This article gives a good discussion about a potential coming East/West political split in the world of FOSS.
https://thenewstack.io/avoiding-a-geopolitical-open-source-apocalypse/
He alludes to sanctions being a factor but never clarifies on advice from his lawyers. ngl I don’t like the look of it just from a transparency perspective.
Probably because the advice in question was lengthy and technical (subtype: laws and legality), and the short form had the disclaimer "Please don’t publish the short form because it’s too much like giving legal advice.) Something similar happened back in 2012 with Project Byzantium, when we were consulting with the EFF with respect to having cryptographic libraries included in the distro.
“Have we become so fearful? Have we become so cowardly That we must extinguish a man because he carries the blood of a current enemy?”
- Picard, Star Trek TNG
Quote taken completely out of context.
The context is that a partial descendant of an enemy species (Romulans) was the victim of a witch hunt. He was half human and a starfleet officer. He had lived in the federation his whole life.
The real world equivalent to that would be banning Americans with Russian ancestry that were born in America and lived in America their whole lives from contributing.
That is not what’s happening here. You are arguing in bad faith.
How does this prevent the Russians from accessing sensitive technology? Oh it doesn’t! It just excludes them from contributing to Linux, not from using it.
Accusing others from “arguing in bad faith” are we?
I don’t give a shit about that. OP misused a Picard quote. Completely unacceptable.
As a finn, I understand that there are probably legal reasons for doing this.
I just wish they would be transparent and share those reasons with us. The Linux kernel is certainly not the only free software project that is impacted, if this comes straight from EU/US sanctions. Maintainers of other projects have a lot of interest in what is happening.
Transparency is also important because if EU/US policy/sanctions are causing issues for free software projects, then that discussion needs to be public, so that there is a chance to amend the policies if necessary.
The legal reasons was because the Linux Foundation is based in the USA and the targeted devs worked for companies explicitly sanctioned by the USA. Linus said he knew and trusted the devs he was forced to delist.
The Linux Foundation needs to relocate to some stable neutral country like Switzerland.
Switzerland is controlled by the US
Suggest a country then
Politics should not be on FOSS development.
FOSS is inherently political though, but I guess you mean country vs country politics moreso than ideological politics.
It has to be there, because politics is connected with lawmaking, and open source software is dependent on laws.
A lot of people like to say that politics isn’t in their life or that they keep politics out of their life, but the reality is that’s just not true. The rules that govern society affect you, always, either with or without your input, either with or without your acknowledgment.
You’re probably trying to say that we should keep pointless politicking out of open source software, and I agree, but that’s going to come down to personal definitions of pointlessness.
That is hardcore wishful thinking, the nature by which critical digital infrastructure is developed and maintained is of keen importance to political systems everywhere. This situation was inevitable with the ongoing escalation of war
That’s why the “should be” I guess, though that’s not to say there aren’t idiots (right in this thread too) actually shilling for this.
If current open source licenses still have flaws like this, we’re gonna need new ones.
The F in FOSS stands for politics
Maybe they can contribute to RedStar instead. Is best os for great compute.
Wutlol
Linux is the kernel, not the OS. RedStar uses Linux as the kernel.
I understand, thank you. My statement kind of assumes north korea is maintaining a fork of the kernel they patch and customize. It also implies NK is one of the few organizations that would accept russian contributions into their fork, given the somewhat limited number of linux projects operating outside of the sanctions.
Hm i never coded a line in my life, but i always wondered so honest question to the experts here: is it realistic that someone codes security back doors so hidden in other bad or wrong documented code, that nobody recognizes it in OSS community? I mean code is getting more complicated and specialized, dont you need more and more human resources (more than one person and hopefully not all with a bad intention) to check over that code? If im correct you shouldnt let more code into your software than the community is able to check an validate several times… Doesnt mean it has to be russians that need to be excluded idk
Interesting answers, thanks!
This might not be super useful if you don’t write code but I always found the contest submissions fun to read and try to figure out for the https://www.underhanded-c.org/ contest.
They break down and explain the runner up and finalist for each year and how the attack works. It’s usually something very subtle that most people wouldn’t catch.
Yes, not only is it realistic, it has actually happened. It’s easier to write code than understand it. Even when reviewing code, you miss more or less obvious issues. Not to mention intentional vulnerabilities that can be sneaked in over multiple commits and time span long enough to make reviewers forget the larger context.
There will be a million security issues across all OSS. Some of it will be intentional; if so definitely don’t expect it to be a “findable” back door. It will be a set of vulnerabilities across several projects, that when combined allow the perpetrators privilege-escalations or a known path through a security system. Removing “Russians” from contribution doesn’t actually stop that, everyone can use a VPN and work as an American or whatever, but it does send a signal.
