I’ve had a little of a debate with a commenter recently where they’ve argued that “donating” (selling, in their words, because you can get money for it) your blood plasma is a scam because it’s for-profit and you’re being exploited.
Now, I only have my German lense to look at this, but I’ve been under the impression that donating blood, plasma, thrombocytes, bone marrow, whatever, is a good thing because you can help an individual in need. I get that, in the case of blood plasma, the companies paying people for their donations must make some kind of profit off that, else they wouldn’t be able to afford paying around 25€ per donation. But I’m not sure if I’d call that a scam. People are all-around, usually, too selfish and self-centered to do things out of the goodness of their hearts, so offering some form of compensation seems like a good idea to me.
In the past, I’ve had my local hospital call me asking for a blood donation, for example, because of an upcoming surgery of a hospitalised kid that shares my blood group. I got money for that too.
What are your guys’ thoughts on the matter? Should it be on donation-basis only and cut out all incentives - monetary or otherwise? Is it fine to get some form of compensation for the donation?
Very curious to see what you think
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You can donate blood in 20 minutes. It takes an hour plus to donate plasma
Am I going to sit in a chair for an hour plus without any compensation? Maybe once or twice here and there. But you can donate plasma at least twice a week.
It requires two donations for a single unit. If you donate once and don’t donate the second, then your first donation is unusable. You have to get them to donate twice.
When I was donating plasma, it paid about $75 for each donation. 50 first, 100 for second. The money is pretty good. $300 a month is a lot for a lot of people.
If you didn’t compensate people for plasma donations, a lot wouldn’t do it. They currently need more people to donate.
Plasma “donation” is a good thing.
I do in fact sit down for an hour once or twice a month to give plasma without compensation and many other people do so as well, given that it’s illegal to be paid for blood or plasma here in the Netherlands, but I can see why paying people a bit would help.
The reason people can’t get paid for it here is to avoid perverse incentives, mainly people donating when they shouldn’t, lying on the form or to the doctor to pass the pre-donation check.
Tissue, cell and organ donation (including blood, semen and oocytes) can and should be done strictly not-for-profit. This is how it’s done in Spain (well, you do get a snack when donating blood and a small amount of money for oocytes since the process is quite long) and there’s usually no shortage of blood components in hospitals. Local governments do a lot of campaigning, set up mobile units etc., which seems to work; people see all of that, think of it when planning their day, and many even go in small groups to donate.
Donate to a non-profit organization, that’s well audited and regulated, that’s not a problem.
Donating to a for-profit organization is a huge problem. The incentives are all misaligned. And should not be encouraged.
Theres also some nuance between non-profit and for-profit. Non profit still can / must make some income to pay for expenses, wages. And for profit might still not be cyberpunk style capitalists exploiting under the veil of medical care.
Even if it is for profit, it can still be used to save someone’s life.
I don’t have a problem with a for profit model as we live in a monetary system and every donation requires a paid staff and medical supplies as well as a donor’s time and willingness as donating is not without some risk.
It is the infinite profit model that is a problem. The immoral example would be sucking every penny out of patients for blood coming from completely free donations. Or worse, requiring people to pay to donate and manipulating them into doing it.
Preaching to the choir, bud
I’m agreeing with and expanding on what you said. It’s an open forum; that’s how conversations work.
Did what I say offend you? I wasn’t being snarky. I was agreeing with you and had nothing further to add
No, sorry, I thought you were being snarky.
Nah friend. I agree with you 100%
I’ve donated plenty of times, because it makes sense that there is no other way to save lives than to donate.
On the other hand, I’ve been wondering for years, that while I’ve been told a million times that “blood reserves are low - donate blood now!”, I’ve not ever heard that a single person died due to lack of available blood.
Why would something like that not be reported if you want to motivate people to donate?My personal guess is that this comes because “lack of avaiable blood donations” isn’t a valid cause of death, the cause of death is whatever else (gun shot wound, knife severed artery / complication during surgery etc), thus it’s hard to pinpoint. Also Doctors may try to “save” blood, when they know little is available, and people may die that may have lived if they had gotten (more) blood, but also they may not have and it is hard to tell.
Well, that’s a new thought. Donating blood is necessary, so we get paid by the Red Cross to do it, in money or a small meal. But the Red Cross then immediately upsells that blood to the hospitals that need it. In a sense, we are exploited workers without a contract.
The real reason donating blood is unethical is because we cannot unionize.
I wouldn’t mind it for that reason. The Red Cross do good work that need to be financed.
Here in the Netherlands they do that by contracting out volunteers for first aid services to events like fairs and runs. The volunteer donates their time, gets trained for free, the Red Cross gets paid by the organiser and makes money for their mission and an small army of experienced first aid people and EMTs to help out when disaster strikes.
I’m such a volunteer and it’s a great distraction from my normal job. I also get to use my skills outside of the Red Cross, e.g. as an action medic at protests.
Cool sidenote: there’s this network any CPR certified person can join to get alerted by emergency dispatch when CPR is needed close to your home or work. This has helped massively to get CPR started within 6 minutes mostly anywhere in the country, even when ambulances can’t get there that quickly.
You lack the cultural lens of America. About half of our country governs from the perspective of “why should I?” with the most negative and self-preserving mindset possible.
Why should I pay for others healthcare, even if it means they pay for mine? Why should I donate my blood if it doesn’t benefit me?
Solve that problem by giving you $25-100 for your “donations”
100% and I’m sure you know this too but just to add to your point, I believe the US government spends more money per capita on healthcare than anywhere in Europe, so even under the “Why should I?” lens, the current approach costs individuals more because they have to pay for it in taxes and then also in insurance premiums, copay etc.
It’s not just for the benefit of society as a whole, “you” as an individual would also be financially better off under a socialised system.
The important part is that the individual people spend more per capita for worse healthcare, too. You, private citizen reading this, are worse off and are paying more than you would be with socialized medicine in this country. Pretty much no matter what level you’re at, too.
As someone from the US i always saw it as people can’t afford to take time off to donate, so compensating them for their time makes it so they can afford to donate.
A few states make it illegal to be monetarily compensated for your blood or plasma, but others it’s completely fine.
I’m sure.its a bit of that too, but I do feel like the ultimate reason is still, “well why are you taking time off to do something that isn’t only benefitting you?”
basically the same mindset that created this culture is what developed compensation for our time, as opposed to just taking the loss for the day to do a good thing.
That’s a fair assessment, and I can definitely agree with that
If your blood plasma helps save somebody’s life, either directly as an infusion or indirectly in research, that’s not a scam. The monetary reward is compensation for time and an incentive to try to meet demand. The donation is free, but the time and energy required to make the donation are an expense. That’s what the compensation covers. It’s only a scam if your donation goes to feed a literal or wannabe vampire or their bathing fetish.
In germany - I think - blood and plasma donations are most commonly done with the DRK (German Red Cross). I might be wrong, but DRK is not a for profit organization, but “gemeinnützig”. Organizations with that status get controlled by the government for it, so they are non-profit. I think the 25€ are an incentive to come and donate, just as the chocolate and drinks and the small goodies, that you get there. And you only can get the money, if you go to one of the fixed DRK locations. If the DRK comes to somewhere near you (as they often do with churches, town halls, schools and universities) you don’t get any money. I can at least believe, that these two are monetarily similar for the DRK. If you come to them, they don’t need to pay for getting the equipment and people to you. And providing incentives for donating blood is in effect a good thing, as they are working, thus we have more blood to save lifes.
Ofcourse actors later in the chain are probably profit oriented. Though there I would see the discussion disconnected from the donation. It is more about if we want profit oriented actors in healthcare.
And - as always - the US healthcare system seems to do the worst thing possible every time. Sorry, americans, don’t want to bash you, but capitalism…
Maybe it should be like other charitable donations and there should be a set tax deduction per ml or better yet how about they take enough for donation and decanter a portion out an do blood testing both to make sure the blood is clean but alsoso the individual is aware of they are free of X. You could get like a qr code you can use to identify the results later.
I think paying for blood or other bodily fluids is bad. It provides incentive for desperate people (addicts etc.) to lie on the safety forms to keep getting paid.
I know a few people who donate blood despite not getting anything in return. I personally stopped donating plasma after a few times for health reasons (nothing dangerous in the plasma itself, luckily). To me, being able to help a hospital or a person by simply sitting back and watching shows on my tablet is probably the easiest, laziest charity you can support. The snacks are nice, too.
Not everyone can donate blood, but everyone who is able to, you should consider it, even if you won’t get paid for it. You can doom scroll and browse Lemmy like normal, except you’re sitting in a weird chair and get free food.
I suppose in the shittier countries, where all blood donation stuff is run for-profit, you should let them pay you if they’re making a profit off of you, but I still think it brings a bad incentive.
When people start getting paid for their blood, overall quality of the blood in such country suffers.
Because less rich and more poor people start donating blood. Due to how much health correlates with social status and money.
The mere existence of such buying blood organization has such effect on a whole country.
In my country you can only donate blood for free. But however for your charity government pays you a meal and day of work.
This “compensation” must be low enough and presented in a way people still consider it a charity. Otherwise it has described effect, and people who actually donate blood feel cheated. Also in my country healthcare is “free” and you can receive blood for “free” which seems “fair” to a person who is donating blood.
Source: a book “things you cannot buy with money”
The only way you’re getting blood out of me for any reason other than medical purposes is if you pay me or commit a crime. That goes for the plasma too.
That’s a terrible sword to live by. How do you expect to get blood, then? If you’re unconscious you can’t take it by force.
Blood is just as bad, but yes, the markup is insane in the US, compared to the machinery and time to collect plasma.
Blood, for instance gets sold by the red cross to hospitals for around $215 per unit. Hospitals in turn will charge anywhere from $580 to $3,000 for it.
Also, most blood is used for elective surgeries that are not life critical. Any time you hear about their being a blood shortage that could effect what hospitals can give, what they actually mean is that there’s plenty for emergency and necessary use, but they may have to postpone elective and cosmetic surgeries.
Obviously, the issue would be solved easily by paying people enough to be worth it to donate. People would be lining up if they got something like $100 to donate a pint. Something that only takes about 30 minutes to do.
Worth remembering that a lot of serious life-changing surgeries are ‘elective’
By which i mean shit like joint reconstruction, endometriosis removal, ear grommets, cataract removal, etc.
Yes, but no one dies if they get pushed back 2 weeks. Also, the cosmetic surgeries are first on the chopping block.
And again, it’s supply and demand. The hospitals want the profit. They don’t want to pay any overhead for the product.
I donated blood for many years, starting the first day I was allowed (mom took me). I’ve been an organ donor from the day I was able and am loud about that. And for a few months after college I sold plasma for money. It definitely felt scummy, but I think it’s ultimately a good thing, though it is selling part of your body to a for profit company at a rate that’s pretty bad. So the cons are really that it definitely feels seedier than whole blood donation and that the phlebotomists are worse. I can’t donate blood anymore because they gave me a track mark and I can’t risk my other elbow’s veinous access.
But it got me through a rough time
how much did they ngive you?
Something like $100/week for two draws. But it was like 6 years ago in Kentucky
not bad
