I think I have an answer for at least the white women on the right beyond the dismissive term “internalized misogyny” thrown around in here.
Go listen to ex-Mormons or Ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses or even ex-Baptists talk. You’ll hear them say that they had a large support community within the church. All their friends, their families, their mentors, everyone they could ever turn to were members of that church. They often talk about lots of companionship, that they had lots of people to turn to if they had issues. And that if they stepped out of line, the everyone they ever knew would turn against them all at once and they’d have nowhere to go. Being shunned by these groups basically means your life as you know it is over. There are people who are going through the motions in these communities despite falling out of belief because losing every single part of your support network at once is extremely daunting. If an insular community is all you’ve ever known, “I’ll be alone” is a terrifying thought.
The whole point of church/religion is to get you to act a specific way in your daily life, not just at church or in the presence of other people of the religion.
Your ballot is secret in the US, but the fact that you voted is not. That’s public record.
I’m an Ex-JW, and they expressly ban voting. As far as I know, they don’t have anyone pouring over public records looking for members who voted. Though I wouldn’t put it past a few busy body elders to check. That said, I would still hesitate to vote if I was PIMO (physically in, mentally out). I did vote for Obama in 2012 when I was on my way out, but I already had plans in motion to leave officially within months.
It is so true. As a gay man I had to leave the Mormon cult but it meant committing complete social suicide. It’s not an easy thing, by far the most difficult part of coming out.
Peer pressure is an enormously potent force in these people’s lives, as evidenced by their belief that people undergo gender reassignment surgery solely because of (liberal) peer pressure.
Personally I wouldn’t necessarily say people talking about internalized misogyny / sexism (or racism for that matter) are being dismissive though, because I’d bet that’s a component of why some women and minorities vote for conservatives. I’m middle aged and I know I’ve internalized a lot of pretty heinous stuff in my lifetime – including misogyny – and getting rid of that is nontrivial. Not that I’ve ever voted conservative, mind you, just using myself as an example. I definitely don’t mean to use that term in a dismissive way because like you pointed out there’s lots of other possible reasons too
There really needs to be something that serves the social function of a church without being an unhealthy bigoted grift that protects pedos. We’re social creatures and need support, and churches exploit that.
That’s just a parody religion, more designed to make atheists pat themselves on the back about how clever they are and to piss off fundies. Both laudable goals, yes, but if people were gonna build a Sunday go-to-meetin’ space and arrange a couple hours of free childcare around that, it would have happened by now.
Very easy to forget how much of the modern religious institution is just a stop-gap for our decayed and broken public sector. Religious schooling, religious daycare, religious pantries and addiction treatment centers, religious medical centers, religious counseling services, religious jobs programs, religious housing…
Secular atheists don’t organize, they don’t form these strong community bonds with their neighbors, and they don’t collaborate to pursue these large community projects in a reliable way. I blame a lot of this on modern western libertarianism, which tends to latch on to the atheist movement like a parasite. Murray Rothbard and Ayn Rand have been a scourge on secularism for over a century. Every time secularists try to create these large, lasting, communal institutions, they get denounced as “Evil Communists” and “Tax-and-Spend Liberals” from within their own organizations.
You’re never going to see the Joel Osteen crowd tear him down for building a bigger Mega-Church. But the Sam Harris types will eviscerate secularists for doing any kind of more-useful equivalent.
I think I have an answer for at least the white women on the right beyond the dismissive term “internalized misogyny” thrown around in here.
Go listen to ex-Mormons or Ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses or even ex-Baptists talk. You’ll hear them say that they had a large support community within the church. All their friends, their families, their mentors, everyone they could ever turn to were members of that church. They often talk about lots of companionship, that they had lots of people to turn to if they had issues. And that if they stepped out of line, the everyone they ever knew would turn against them all at once and they’d have nowhere to go. Being shunned by these groups basically means your life as you know it is over. There are people who are going through the motions in these communities despite falling out of belief because losing every single part of your support network at once is extremely daunting. If an insular community is all you’ve ever known, “I’ll be alone” is a terrifying thought.
Is voting not secret is US? Go thru the motions, but once you are in the booth. Vote on your best interest?
The whole point of church/religion is to get you to act a specific way in your daily life, not just at church or in the presence of other people of the religion.
The real power of this kind of thought control is its ability to govern people’s thoughts and behaviors when nobody else is around.
I’ve heard of churches having “Let’s all fill out our mail-in ballots together” sessions.
I’ve also heard a lot of “My husband fills in my mail-in ballot.”
Your ballot is secret in the US, but the fact that you voted is not. That’s public record.
I’m an Ex-JW, and they expressly ban voting. As far as I know, they don’t have anyone pouring over public records looking for members who voted. Though I wouldn’t put it past a few busy body elders to check. That said, I would still hesitate to vote if I was PIMO (physically in, mentally out). I did vote for Obama in 2012 when I was on my way out, but I already had plans in motion to leave officially within months.
Have a look at the ex mormon forums. What people sacrifice in order to leave the cult is literally everything
It is so true. As a gay man I had to leave the Mormon cult but it meant committing complete social suicide. It’s not an easy thing, by far the most difficult part of coming out.
Peer pressure is an enormously potent force in these people’s lives, as evidenced by their belief that people undergo gender reassignment surgery solely because of (liberal) peer pressure.
Excellent point!
Personally I wouldn’t necessarily say people talking about internalized misogyny / sexism (or racism for that matter) are being dismissive though, because I’d bet that’s a component of why some women and minorities vote for conservatives. I’m middle aged and I know I’ve internalized a lot of pretty heinous stuff in my lifetime – including misogyny – and getting rid of that is nontrivial. Not that I’ve ever voted conservative, mind you, just using myself as an example. I definitely don’t mean to use that term in a dismissive way because like you pointed out there’s lots of other possible reasons too
There really needs to be something that serves the social function of a church without being an unhealthy bigoted grift that protects pedos. We’re social creatures and need support, and churches exploit that.
Flying Spaghetti Monster FTW
That’s just a parody religion, more designed to make atheists pat themselves on the back about how clever they are and to piss off fundies. Both laudable goals, yes, but if people were gonna build a Sunday go-to-meetin’ space and arrange a couple hours of free childcare around that, it would have happened by now.
Very easy to forget how much of the modern religious institution is just a stop-gap for our decayed and broken public sector. Religious schooling, religious daycare, religious pantries and addiction treatment centers, religious medical centers, religious counseling services, religious jobs programs, religious housing…
Secular atheists don’t organize, they don’t form these strong community bonds with their neighbors, and they don’t collaborate to pursue these large community projects in a reliable way. I blame a lot of this on modern western libertarianism, which tends to latch on to the atheist movement like a parasite. Murray Rothbard and Ayn Rand have been a scourge on secularism for over a century. Every time secularists try to create these large, lasting, communal institutions, they get denounced as “Evil Communists” and “Tax-and-Spend Liberals” from within their own organizations.
You’re never going to see the Joel Osteen crowd tear him down for building a bigger Mega-Church. But the Sam Harris types will eviscerate secularists for doing any kind of more-useful equivalent.
Any in-person hobby or interest group works. I do judo. I also just saw someone trying to start a local mutual aid network on FetLife.
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