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Yo, I know I’m kinda late with this but please provide alt text when you’re posting here in the future
Also this isn’t exactly a meme either
Apologies. Alt text added!
Thank you for adding good quality alt text! w
Also I didn’t mean to sound harsh in the post above, you could post similar content over on c/Socialism next time
No worries, and will do! :)
Would we have beat the nazis if they just stayed in Germany?
Nope, they sat by and watched as Germany sunk into fascism and began their ethic cleansing and putting people in cattle cars to take to camps, if Germany had never invaded Poland they would’ve continued to sit by and do fuck all.
After Germany invaded Poland they have continued to sit by and do about fuck all for a year.
Nope. The US, UK and France weren’t waging war on fascism in any way whatsoever - they were waging war on rival empires.
That’s the whole reason they never went to war with Francoist Spain - they helped him into power, after all.
The trouble is: the poster misrepresents the situation. The guy wearing the red hat is the one holding the rifle and bayonet this time.
Sounds like you better fix that
So were the nazis. We just out rifle’d and bayonette’d them.
I’ve been saying for a while that the left in the US needs to embrace the 2nd ammendment.
Dark times are fast approaching… be prepared
Why does the maga guy has a socialist party ghost?
A socialist party who does dragnet operations on socialists, communists and trade unionists.
Very socialist, that.
It should also have a USSR ghost
Yeah we beat them when they were them, but now they’re us.
They were us back then too, and we still beat them.
No. There’s a gigantic difference between nazis speaking freely and nazis running the country.
Guys you lost.
Down with MAGA!
We had help with the rear of the world.
Germany didn’t get out of the third Reich by themselves (which is what is going on)
This sounds like the defeatist attitude they want you to have. Just give up, it’s hopeless. No one is helping you.
No, I don’t think I will. I think I’ll do something. We need more people feeling empowered to take back this country. Not thoughts of hopelessness.
Germany didn’t want to, at least not a majority. Maybe if Germans would have known where it was going (unwinnable war vs all neighbours at once etc), they would have tried early. US Americans have the advantage of this knowledge.
Look where having the advantage of this knowledge got us.
Maybe knowledge is a bit intense for some.
Unfortunately, that knowledge doesn’t just help those who wish to fight against it. Those who seek that kind of authoritarian power also were able to learn what worked and what didn’t.
They then spent decades patiently cultivating the type of society, through extensive social manipulation that has since been exacerbated thanks to expanding technology, to create the perfect environment for them to try again.
This is all by design of those who hold the levers of industry to further facilitate their concentration of wealth.
Consider that Germany was in far more dire straits economically, and Hitler’s approval was crazy high even towards the end of the war (something like 60 or 70%). So the entire time the opposition was outnumbered.
In comparison, Trump’s approval is around 45%.
Once white people are getting vanned for lack of patriotic fevour I’m sure Trumps ratings will increase, too.
Look up the history. Hitler wasn’t elected by a majority but appointed by an elite and then killed the opposition. There was massive opposition before, including street battles. But that’s also why he got the dictatorial power. Apporoval means nothing if people obey executive orders.
Could you link some sources for that massive resistance? Wikipedia says there was very little organized resistence for most of his rise to power, and the regime was SO popular amongst the populace, it prevented even anti-nazi’s in the intelligence services from acting on their underground networks.
What we’re seeing with the current fairly widescale open resistence is far beyond anything that happened in Germany.
Blackshirts and Reds by Michael Parenti. There is a free pdf file of it with some searching I know.
Found it. You read this and it’s gonna sound a lot like modern day.
Eh, generally not a fan of Parenti, as he gives far too much of a pass to authoritarian marxist-leninists regimes for my comfort.
Thanks for the going through the legwork to share the link, though.
This is what Parenti would say to that. 3:15 for the relevant part. But the whole story is good. I hope you open yourself up to some more historical materialism and not discount someone because they understand the history more than what you’ve been told.
Parenti definitely doesn’t give a pass like you say. But he understands the material circumstances in which revolution occurs. What you call “authoritarian” might me seizing lands from slave plantations in Cuba. I’m not sure exactly what you mean. But I really think you should more reading from him not less. Especially, if you haven’t even read his most iconic book. (The one I recommended). Have you actually read anything from him?
I’ve watched his Yellow speech, and I’ve read segments from Blackshirts and reds. I understand his point of view, but I fundamentally disagree with his conclusions.
Seizing land from capitalists is fine, it’s what bureaucratic marxist-leninist regimes do with it afterward that bothers me. It’s an age old disagreement between ML’s and Anarchists that stretches back to at least the Russian Revolution war, and is something that cannot be compromised on.
Cuba’s agrarian reforms eventually centralized the majority of farming land under state control instead of simply all of it to the people in a decentralized manner. They were later forced to do after the USSR fell in the 90’s, did not cede such power without that outside force.
That centralization, that state control, is what I detest and denounce, as it furthers the ability for coercive and unequal hierarchies to exist and flourish in an ideology that is supposedly supposed to eliminate them. The ML argument is that it must be done to survive against the enemies of socialism, and may point to the fact that there was never a long-term anarchist society as proof that decentralized power doesn’t work, but then they conveniently pass over the fact that all promising Anarchist revolutions were actively fought and suppressed by ML’s, such as the betrayal of Nestor Mahkno’s Black Army of Ukraine, the Anarchists during the Spanish Revolution, The Kronstadt Rebellion, and many more.
You suggest I simply misunderstand history, yet it was through intense historical research that I came to what, at least to me, seemed like self evident conclusions based on historical fact. The fundamental disagreement between us is that we will likely always disagree on what is fact, misinterpretation, or fiction. You trust your sources, I have come to trust mine, and thus our conclusions, and perhaps even our mental reality, will lead us to reject each other’s solutions to the same problem we all face: Capitalism.
To return to Parenti; his view is to suggest that the downsides of Marxist-Leninist regimes do not offset the material living condition improvements for the people living under them.
I contend that minimizes just how unjust and evil those downsides truly are. I would personally find living under the USSR just as hellish as living under Capitalism. I might have better healthcare, but then I’d have to contend with living in a deeply distrustful society where having the wrong thought could land me in the gulag or executed, all while a bureaucratic elite dictate how things will be structured and run no differently from a capitalist boss.
I have read enough ML literature and watched enough documentaries to know that I want nothing to do with that ideology, and I assume you feel the same about Anarchism, otherwise you’d be one, eh? 😅
If not, then I would implore the same from you, in that you open yourself up to Anarchist critique of Marxist-Leninism.
The scale of the opposition would be difficult to quantify - the whole reason liberals hand power to fascists in the first place is to violently suppress dissent against the status quo, after all.
Italy gives a clue, however - almost the entire north of Italy was liberated by antifascist Partisan movements (before the US and UK suppressed them, of course.) The same thing happened in Greece - and Greece had turned fascist even before Italy and Germany did.
So yeah… Hitler’s (supposed) “popularity” should be viewed with the same suspicion as Putin’s.
So yeah… Hitler’s (supposed) “popularity” should be viewed with the same suspicion as Putin’s.
Fair enough, though I could also see Hitlers public approval rating being real for a few reasons.
- Unlike Putin & Trump, Hitler seemed to give frequent economic concessions to industrial workers to prevent dissent.
- Their economy did improve (due to imperialist conquest and ransacking obv, which most of the population didn’t seem bothered about)
- His supporters seemed to suffer the same cognitive dissonance cult-like worship that MAGA currently suffers under (despite their economic conditions getting worse in the US), but perhaps on a much wider scale.
I’m not well read enough on Greek or Italian fascism to know if Mussolini or Metaxas were worse at quelling dissent or keeping the non-targeted groups ‘happy’, but from what I recall of Mussolini, his conquests were far less successful than Hitler’s, which may have limited his economic ability to keep people pacified in the same way.
Resistence is too late. There was opposition before the nazis gained power.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsbanner_Schwarz-Rot-Gold
German site says 2.5 million members were organized mostly by SPD, with 250,000 in the elite units:
From
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmabteilung
Its primary purposes were providing protection for Nazi rallies and assemblies, disrupting the meetings of opposing parties, fighting against the paramilitary units of the opposing parties, especially the Roter Frontkämpferbund of the Communist Party of Germany (KPD) and the Reichsbanner Schwarz-Rot-Gold of the Social Democratic Party of Germany (SPD), and intimidating Romani, trade unionists, and especially Jews.
By the time Hitler assumed power in January 1933, SA membership had increased to approximately 2,000,000
Strangely there is no information about the conflicts. This is what I found, on the site of the communist units who also fought the nazis.
Since the strategy of the SA was to fight and provoke, violent encounters between the RFB and SA soon became a part of everyday life.
I wasn’t aware of the scale of those opposition parties, the Reichsbanner in particular. I also can’t really find much info on their conflicts pre-1932, I assume they are only written about in German? Definitely an interesting topic to delve into.
Cheers for sharing the solid research :)
From what I recall from Behind the Bastards, a major part of Hitler’s bloc was the upper middle-class. Shopkeepers, factory managers, so on. It basically came down to the opportunity to eliminate wealthy Jews, and taking their stuff - fancy furniture, buildings, their businesses, ect. The destruction of the Jews was a matter of greed that happened to fit hand-in-glove with racist ideology.
notably the soviets. but we don’t have any equivalent today thats willing to do that.
LOL ‘help’
The Soviets killed 85% of the nazi troops.
The rest was all other countries combined.
And they would’ve been on the Atlantic in no time without trouble if the allies hadn’t come in to take a piece of the European loot.
The nazi’s enemy were the communists.
They didn’t fight as much against the west which gave them all the chances to surrender and escape punishment.
More left victory memes for the cause ❤️
That’s the spirit - we’ll win if we just post enough memes! C’mon, who’s with me? Let’s get scrollin!
Unionists versus the confederates all over again, history definitely repeats itself
The unionist versus confederate war never ended, it just went into a cold war phase for awhile and is now heating up again.
Last time, the French resisted and we helped when we and England showed up.
Now we are resisting, while we wait for backup from the French and English.
I don’t think we’ll be getting any backup this time, it’s up to us.
IMO, other nations like Canada, Germany, and so forth will have relations with the Blue States in a civil war. Trump’s regime is a terrible trading partner, dishonest, evil, abrasive, and generally just unlikable for anyone who has good sense or pragmatism. During the 1st American Civil War, the South had major issues, because they didn’t have much trade with Europe - which meant supply shortages, a lack of wealth, and so forth. That cotton may have been picked by slaves, but isn’t going to become lucre if it sits in a warehouse.
After awhile, when the Blue States have a more formal coalition, I think Europe will go beyond trade to offer war support. That is the sort of thing that needs troops to be readied, mentally and materially. It would be kinda like how America was in the leadup to Pearl Harbor. We were doing stuff to indirectly support the Allies, even if our blood wasn’t spilt.
I can’t discount that possibility. I could see them supplying the blue states covertly, similar yo how France did during the Spanish Civil War, but I’m not so confident on if they’d send boots to help.
This does assume the military fractures for an open civil war to take place. Without that, we’re looking at an Irish troubles situation, I figure.
I don’t think we’ll be getting any backup this time, it’s up to us.
If you don’t, you’re screwed - bullets don’t grow on trees… not even in the US.
while we wait for backup from the French and English
You’re going to be waiting a long, long time.
And yet notice that no Western democracy has condemned this.
When Iran protests and the police get violent against them, the west condemns them and pledges supports for democracy and yet here there’s silence.
Not saying that these protests are getting suppressed but: The Iranian Police didn’t use rubber bullets to shoot protesters. They actually shot protesters. They abducted a 16 year old girl, raped and beat her to death and 2 weeks later returned the body to the family, claiming she committed suicide.
They hanged at least 8 people for protesting. The Iranian state didn’t just get violent, they slaughtered their citizens in the streets.
They abducted a 16 year old girl
So that’s where they got inspiration from.
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Hitler was very popular in the US and UK until about 1938…
All that resisting and fighting took place once War had started. We left the Jews, LGBT, Socialists, disabled people, Roma, Poland and Checkoslovakia, and dissenting Germans to be rolled over and ground up first because potential woke-socialist mind virus was scarier than literal fascism.
Have we asked them yet?
from my central european perspective, currently there is not much we could do. It is an matter of internal US politics, and on the grand scale, it’s not like your whole country is on fire. Sure, we can send harsh letters or something, but i don’t think our input would even make it on the topics debated in congress. And everything else like military action would just make us the enemy. i don’t think there is anything that would unite the US faster than that - under TACOs banner, so thats the last thing you want (ignoring that we couldn’t even pull something like this off without help from China, noone else comes even close in military strength. don’t forget, you guys have the strongest airforce, and then the second strongest airforce, and i think the 4th strongest airforce is US too)
so, you have my moral support, and i can post in your support, but i think thats about it until you are deep into civil war territory. sorry 😟
Pepe did nothing wrong
Yeah I thought we had moved past this whole pepe is alt-right thing. He’s a beloved little goof.
The Nazis can take my little pepes out of my cold dead hands
But the call is coming from inside the house this time.
Yeah, the two most prominent examples of fascism in history (Germany and Italy) were only beaten by a combined military power much, much greater than them. Even as they were literally being bombed into rubble and their military situation was beyond hopeless, they never overthrew their fascist leaders.
Maybe they’re only the most prominent b/c they weren’t stopped?
They won in 2014
Yep. And the most prominent fascist power that wasn’t overthrown externally (Francoist Spain) lasted 40 years until it’s demogogue died. The reason it wasn’t a bigger problem for the world at large was that it was a politically isolated minor power.
The world hasn’t yet seen something like an (openly) fascist modern USA.
Bingpot!
I came here to write this exact statement I’m glad to see somebody else already did.
The call was always coming from inside the house - fascism is just colonialism coming home to roost, after all.
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And then turned outwards again
There is nothing to beat? You all become the established rule and become the new conservatives of the nation as you age, going against the grain in younger years just meant you had the wrong idea of gradual change.
Then you can look down when you are older and tell them youngens just how wrong they are and to make a country great again by the same mindset you wanted to change it in the past.
Idealism, enemy of everyone, friend to none. But we are all idealists.
I’m old now and I’m still not a Nazi, fuck off.
Cool. Want a medal or something for not being a nazi?
…what kind of dumb fucking response is this? LMFAO
I don’t know, let us all know.
“nooo, don’t call the fascists fascists, they are just conservatives pining for a non-existent, ethnopurist, mythical past while deporting people to camps using emergency powers. That’s like, totally not fascism.”
Interesting art, you should write a book with so much creativity.
Fuck this nonsense, you’re just a kowtowing coward fuck, I have become far more progressive in my old age. You’re just a fucking coward and a tool making excuses for your lack of spine, we are not all as weak as you.
Cool. Regardless, we all die anyway.
Have fun dying as a coward choking on the cock of authority, if that’s how it is I’ll gladly die with the blood and flesh of fascists in my teeth rather than begging on my knees.
Fuck you.
We all need a job to make ends meet, we all want freedom by having half of our working time to ourselves and to pursue other interests, we all want to die meaning something to someone.
Perhaps your way is to call others like me bad words.
Cool.
All I’m reading here is “if the authoritarian regime puts its dick in your mouth, just suck it to completion and then let them Put a bullet in your head.”
You are the exact kind of evil that these fuckers require you to be, you are an enabler of death and fascism, you feeble piece of shit. Get fucked and go die, the world is better off without the pawns of authoritarian rhetoric like yourself, you fascist piece of shit.
What regime? And what makes me a fascist?
Supporting and enabling fascists makes you a fascist, point blank, and asking stupid obvious questions just shows how fucking obvious your stance is. Get fucked, we know you’re not that stupid, you’re just a fucking cunt. We see you, and we will remember you.
