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Fuck the Maple Leafs alright
Hey hey these two things aren’t mutually exclusive!
True and acceptable, however I don’t feel patriotic.
o7
I don’t either in the typical “my country is the best” way, more like “my country is democratic and that’s why it’s good (also use your influence to make democracy more commonplace pls)”.
It’s mainly about fuck Muskytrump & cia. not generally all US = crap, valid only for certain collectives.
You just defined nationalism (“my country is better, fuck the others”) vs. patriotism (“I love my country and will defend its values”)
And if they’re both rotten, well there’s always a common enemy.
Yeah, the problem in the US for an example is nationalism, not patriotism. True patriots would be fuming at what’s going on. It’s the nationalists that cheer on.
Americans are very good at cognitive dissonance and arrogance.
why not both?
Not all are easy to boycott
US products > GitHub, Steam (Valve), Dropbox, Oracle, nVidia, Intel, IBM, eBay, Amazon, UPS, FedEx, Pepsi, CocaCola, Microsoft, Google, Pfitzer, Nike…, Which of these support Trump and needs to be avoided because of this? Not even FOSS is a Guarantee. Gimp, GNU Project, Mozilla.org, TOR, even a lot of Linux distros are from the US
Full list of US companies https://fortune.com/ranking/fortune500/?global500_y_n=true
apart from foss content in which you can simply pick the source code and compile on your machine, or fork or reverse engineer them, in some cases you can either p!rate it outright (hello, ms and riaa!) or have already well established alternatives in your country (sodas, online commerce platform).
either way, you’re not taking down the u.s. by claiming ethical consumption. there’s no such thing under capitalism. the best thing you can do is organize and take down the system that enables big companies that own us.
Yes, FOSS can be forked and gut the code, if you know how to do it. With big apps with millons of lines it is not so easy, less for an normal user, apart to the subsequent maintenance and updates.
no one has got to do everything. the reasons that make some particular software bad for people using them sometimes cannot be simply addressed by technical skills alone, and politics here is the tool.
I always prefer EU soft if they are good alternatives, but I use also an californian search engine since 2 years, with AI, Andisearch, from a small startup, independent, own LLM, also against big brother companies and even surpassing the EU GDPR rule. Until now I found nothing better and more accurate. If a product is good, ethic and usefull, not biased by politic interests, the country of origin is irrelevant.
Buy alternatives for whatever is easy to avoid. Buy what is unavoidable.
You forgot AMD there. Intel alone would be super easy to avoid. But AMD is also based in the US. You kinda need either AMD or Intel if you want to own a useful computer. Or there’s Apple Silicon, but that’s still American. Qualcomm laptop offerings are not that great yet and guess what, it’s also an American company.
This is all a lot harder to boycott than Coca Cola, Nike, etc. I can just buy local soft drinks and Adidas shoes. In fact I currently own Adidas shoes (I’m the kinda guy who buys one pair of shoes, wears the everloving fuck out of them, then buys another pair and the old pair gets used in the garage afterwards) and my clothes already come from European owned brands (that are probably made in Bangladesh or something, I don’t buy a lot of expensive clothes). UPS and FedEx aren’t hard to avoid either. Most of my shit gets delivered via Omniva, DHL or Itella.
The x86-64 CPU monopoly that the US has might honestly be the hardest American thing to avoid. The cloud monopoly is even bigger and we all tend to interact with it in one way or another, but most of us could host our own shit on Hetzner or OVH if needed, so at least no need to directly give them money.
The CPU monopoly can change, until now there are only Russian and Chinese alternatives to nVidia and AMD, but also the EU is on the march with Rhea. We’ll see.
But yes, currently there are no real alternatives yet, …well https://techtelegraph.co.uk/open-source-alternative-to-x86-and-arm-could-take-off-in-2025/
I don’t want to buy Russian or Chinese any more than I want to buy American. Rhea is interesting, but seems only targeted at HPC and uses ARM cores. Now RISC-V on the other hand… Damn I do hope it takes off. I suppose it’s dependent on software support as much as actual CPU support, so once I can actually buy a RISC-V machine, I’ll see if there’s anything I can do to widen RISC-V support in the FOSS world. I’m sure there are plenty of projects that will build without a whole load of modifications needed, but need someone to configure the build targets and test.
lidl cola is best
A lot of these are easy to boycott
Yes, there are a lot of good alternatives out there, but the question is in which products it make sense to boycott. Those from big companies definitively, those from small startups and particular and independent devs or communities, questionable, probably not. Do you want to boycott Gimp? It’s from a californian organisation, for sur it don’t make sense to boycott.
Anti-American is fucking weird.
How about get to the root that most of us here have in common? Even half of the Americans agree with the below principles.
Anti-consumerism for the sake of consuming. Anti-greed. Anti harming others for your own selfish gains. Anti-billionaires. Anti-waste and harming the planet.
Let me break down for you why I’m anti-American. History and the absolute disregard for life the US promotes, as illustrated by the grim list below:
1. Direct Military Deaths (Combat & Bombing):
- Korean War (1950-1953): Estimates vary widely, but civilian deaths in Korea are generally placed between 2 and 4 million. US military actions contributed significantly to this toll through bombing campaigns and ground combat. A reasonable attribution for direct/indirect deaths attributable to the US is 600,000 - 1,500,000.
- Vietnam War (1955-1975): This is where the largest numbers lie. Estimates of Vietnamese civilian deaths range from 2 million to over 4 million. US bombing campaigns (Operation Rolling Thunder, Linebacker I & II) and ground operations were major contributors. Estimated US attribution: 1,000,000 - 3,800,000.
- Laos (Secret War – 1964-1973): US bombing of Laos was extensive and largely secret. Civilian deaths are estimated at tens of thousands to over 100,000. Estimated US attribution: 20,000 - 100,000.
- Cambodia (Bombing – 1969-1973): As mentioned previously, estimates range from 50,000 to over 500,000. Estimated US attribution: 50,000 - 500,000.
- Iraq (Gulf War 1991 & Iraq War 2003-2011): The Gulf War resulted in tens of thousands of civilian deaths due to bombing and sanctions. The Iraq War is even more complex, with estimates ranging from hundreds of thousands to over a million. Estimated US attribution: 100,000 - 750,000.
- Afghanistan (2001-2021): Civilian deaths are estimated in the tens of thousands. Estimated US attribution: 20,000 - 40,000.
- Libya (2011): As mentioned previously, airstrikes contributed to an estimated 25,000-30,000 civilian deaths. Estimated US Attribution: 5,000 – 15,000.
- Other Interventions/Conflicts (Grenada, Panama, Somalia, Balkans, Syria): These smaller interventions resulted in fewer direct military deaths but still contributed to overall casualties. Estimated US attribution: 5,000 - 20,000.
2. Indirect Deaths (Famine, Disease, Conflict Disruption):
- Korea: Sanctions and disruption of agriculture likely led to famine-related deaths. Estimates are difficult but could be in the hundreds of thousands.
- Vietnam/Laos/Cambodia: Displacement, destruction of infrastructure, and disruption of healthcare systems contributed to disease outbreaks and malnutrition. Estimates range from hundreds of thousands to over a million.
- Iraq (Sanctions after Gulf War): UN sanctions imposed with US support are widely believed to have contributed significantly to civilian deaths due to lack of food and medicine. Estimates vary wildly, ranging from tens of thousands to over 1 million. This is the most contentious area of attribution.
- Somalia: The “Black Hawk Down” incident and subsequent interventions disrupted aid efforts and exacerbated famine conditions.
Estimated Indirect Deaths attributable to US actions: 500,000 - 2,000,000+ (This is a very broad range due to the difficulty in isolating US influence).
3. Colonial Era (Philippines, etc.):
- Philippine-American War (1899-1902): Estimates of Filipino deaths range from 200,000 to over 1 million. This includes combat deaths and those due to disease and famine exacerbated by the conflict. Estimated US attribution: 100,000 - 600,000.
- Other Colonial Actions: Smaller incidents in other territories are difficult to quantify but likely resulted in additional deaths.
Overall Estimated Range of Deaths Attributable to US Foreign Interventions Since 1945:
Combining all categories (direct military, indirect, and colonial era), a reasonable estimate falls within the range of 2.5 million to over 8 million deaths. It is crucial to understand that this is an estimate based on available data and methodologies, and the true number could be higher or lower. The wide range reflects the inherent uncertainties in these calculations.
Regarding CIA-Installed Dictatorships:
While a precise count is difficult, historians generally identify at least 10-20 countries where US involvement (including covert operations by the CIA) played a significant role in installing or supporting authoritarian regimes since 1945. Examples include:
- Iran (1953)
- Guatemala (1954)
- Chile (1973)
- Brazil (multiple interventions)
- Argentina (multiple interventions)
- Greece (1947-1949)
- Philippines (various periods)
- Indonesia (1965)
- Nicaragua (1980s)
- Afghanistan (1980s)
This list is not exhaustive, and the degree of US influence in each case varies.
Incredible comment!
I’ll also mention that the number of people affected by these interventions and wars are much higher then the death toll.
Laos was the most bombed country on Earth and both Vietnam and Laos, to this day, still teach kids how to identify bombs on the ground since a lot of them did not detonate and still cause harm and death.
In Vietnam, the US used Agent Orange, a chemical weapon that sticks to your skin, which to this day still causes birth defects.
North Korea was bombed to oblivion. US bombing campaign was so brutal, soldiers reported not having anywhere else left to bomb. I recommend this video to know more about the Korean War. (Just use youtube auto translate subtitles)
Also in US-backed dictatorships, the number of deaths might not be as big as in their direct interventions, but the sheer number of affected people, those being detained and tortured is absurd. Not to speak of the torture methods these dictatorships implemented in these countries, the torture people endured here in Brazil is gut wrenching.
I think that means you do not like American government and foreign policy.
Not the American people.
I think that’s the line that becomes vague when you say “anti-American”.
Americans in history have been trying to fight the evil machine and have been assassinated or villianized.
- JFK
- MLK
- Edward Snowden
I’ll also say that other countries are not without blame. There is no reason why other countries should have trusted another country to protect them.
Every country should have invested a healthy amount into their armies and never let one country get so powerful.
Or exploit their populace for pennies. (INDIA/MEXICO COUGH)
Imperialism is the devil on this planet but were all responsible for not fighting back against the machine or uniting the world working class.
We have the technology now with things like the fediverse. The doors are open for now for open communication and coordination.
I’ll also say that other countries are not without blame. There is no reason why other countries should have trusted another country to protect them.
Every country should have invested a healthy amount into their armies and never let one country get so powerful.
Jesus fucking Christ, do you believe in meritocracy?
Wow, so not only you’re justifying the present actions of your government but you also manage to slide in some victim-blaming in the process.
I fucking despise America’s principles. It’s stolen land built on genocide and perpetuated by constant war.
Victim blaming who? The UK taught America how to exploit and also did the same. Heck they even did it better in terrifying way.
Other countries just now thought of adjusting their GDP to account for not relying on the American Military.
Can you explain to me how that is not oversight? How that is not irresponsible?
Im Mexican American so I understand how the fucking border flew over my people.
But there isn’t a black and white villian here. Plenty of powerful people in multiple countries help create the reality and dynamics of the countries.
American principles? There hasn’t been a united states of America to have unified principles since our inception. It was just loud propaganda to tell us so.
I don’t even think we should be this big. You know how many countries are unified in ideals because they are monoculture, monotheist, monoracial? Were not it.
But its also what makes us beautiful. Being a melting pot not often seen in a majority of countries.
All of the issues you list as the real problem are currently magnified by the US Empire. Without the US Empire, progress on these fronts would be far easier.
Deal with it.
Ya’ll fucked up BIG, and your handful of good people does outweigh the tens of millions of people who voted for Trump or the other tens of millions who try to pretend it’s not that bad. The world already didn’t like you that much and now you, the country, are shitting all over everyone who was even halfway decent to you.
Oh, and this is the country that told Canadians that it would use economic pressure to try to destroy their sovereignty and then enacted those tools to apply said pressure. We’re literally at war, even if their aren’t shots being fired yet, and you expect me to send money to your shithole country?
Go fuck yourself. You want to get our support back? Do something about it that isn’t just calling us “weird” for looking out for our own safety.
You can get fucked. I voted for Kamala and vote in every god damn election.
I cant control the populace around me or the media influencing them. I can only control what I do. There are millions of people just like me going through life trying to be a good person.
And I dont give a flying fuck about who hates me because of where happenstance I was randomly born in. Whoever hates someone because of nationality is just as bad as a Nazi and they can suck my fucking farts.
I dont want you to spend your money on American products in fact if I could, Id just by European and Canadian products because they seem to care more about giving people access to education and Healthcare.
We never had that. A government that didnt put people over profits. That why most of these mouth breathing assholes just spew bullshit. Because they’ve never been supported or even know what that’s like.
I at least pity them. They do not know what they are ignorant of. They dont know what they deserve.
Thats called being human. Being wise enough not to hate a blanket of people. Being wise enough not to hate.
But your little bitch ass forgot that, didn’t you?!
I boycot them because of both!
Does this mean Europeans will also boycott goods that they steal from the 17 countries they still have colonized?
No? Oh.
The post only says they’re “Anti-American”. It never said they were anti-American for any of the good reasons.
Ah, good ole whataboutism.
It’s not whataboutism when my entire ideology is anti-nationalism. You don’t get it, do you? I want all of the Western imperialist nations to collapse, including the European ones.
Your rhetoric is weak and outdated, still viewing the world through borders. You think Musk gives a fuck about borders? Grow up.
Why stop at the western nations?
Yes, let all the empires fall. By default, boycotting goods made by slave labor/colonization would apply to TEMU, Apple, etc.
3 of these 17 territories are colonies of the USA (American Samoa, Guam, Virgin Islands).
When it comes to Europe the extortion of former colonies might be the bigger problem (the Franc Zone or the ongoing exploitation of African ressources).
Right. But, I’m an American who strives to boycott goods produced by slave labor and/or colonization by my own government because I believe class solidarity transcends borders.
The BuyEuropean movement is largely nationalistic and uninterested in class solidarity. Don’t get me wrong, I think the entire world should be boycotting American goods. Let the empire collapse, please.
But, boycotting American goods while still exploiting the Global South for centuries is not a flex.
You will never convince a majority of Western people of boycotting anything for a moral reason.
They boycott America because they finally feel threatened. Just take the W and let them boycott America.
You right lol
You will never convince a majority of Western people of boycotting anything for a moral reason.
And they will probably stop boycotting when the America fascist-meter drop from 100% to the normal 88%
That very likely. But the American economy is feeble right now. Trump picked a bad timing to go on a tirade.
American Evangelicals and Zionists are bankrolling European far right parties as well. Europe cutting off America is better for the whole world.
Anti-imperialism would make more sense. The US is not the only asshole…
You think we’re the worst country on the planet at the present moment in 2025? Interesting.
Edit: oh, ml
The US empire currently maintains an imperialist network of over 800 military bases in 70 countries. (For comparison, all other countries combined have only 30 bases)
I’m not looking at opportunity for evil as a metric, just actual evil. Do you think the us causes the most direct suffering?
Absolutely, yes. No other country comes anywhere near what the US empire inflicts on the world daily.
Where is the comparison metric?
Yes. The vast extent of the negatives of maintaining a brutal Empire and the dedication towards thoroughly punishing anyone going against that system makes the US Empire the worst country on the planet.
When it comes to contemporary imperialist assholery the US is #1 by far. Since after WW2 they’ve been nothing but shitting on humanity, between the CIA installing puppet dictators to wars (open and secret) killing tens of millions. The list of countries they have fucked with is too long to post here.
And now their former closest allies are annexation targets.
The USSR was a shitty little bitch during her heyday, too. Worse than the US? I’m not sure. Eastern Europe and South America probably have a major difference of opinion there.
In the last few decades I feel like Russia may have the US beat?
If you seriously think either the USSR or modern Russia were/are worse than the USA, you need some perspective.
Certainly not, but currentky very high in the ranking.
I’m, despite being European, pro-American. It’s just that what America has become disappoints me much like it disappoints most Americans. I’m not pro this America.
The government has always been responsible for some shady shit, but for a long time there, the US stood for diversity, not against it. Yes it took a long time for certain types of people to receive equal rights, but that was unfortunately the same pretty much everywhere else too. Big American metropolitan cities are huge melting pots of culture though. Go walk around NYC, it’s awesome once you get far enough from Wall Street. I do hope I can one day still go to San Francisco as well, but despite being a white cishet male, I don’t intend to visit the US unless the current admin is replaced with a sane one.
The US where and is always neo-liberal capitalism in its maximum expression, currently more than ever. Feudalism disguised as democratic
The US had a 94% income tax rate for the richest at one point. It has not always been what it is now. The country has been looted of both its’ economic strength as well as its’ moral values.
That’s a lot of copium. The US has never really been a diverse place where everyone is equal, it just has very good marketing, brand recognition, and fairy open borders so people tend to move there. Plus with the world speaking so much English it’s fairly accessible.
A lot of the times that you see non-WASP culture in the US it’s just stuff that a tourist might enjoy like cheap food, music, and art, or landscapes that are actively being destroyed by weak governments. So yea, maybe the people who are there and struggling can put on a good show but that doesn’t make it a good place.
The first black person to go to public school is still alive and she’s not even that old. Being gay is still dangerous outside of cities(and even within them sometimes!). There are two different rule sets for white and coloured people that are clear to see. The rich are never punished for their crimes and that’s even when the Democrats, the best they can offer, have all the power to do something about it. They aggressively export regressive ideals to other countries, too.
It’s always sucked.
Do name a more diverse or equal place though. I know in my country you get stared down hard if you dare be to dark skinned. Same goes for many European AND Asian countries (imagine being a black tourist in Japan lmao, they can barely stand white folks).
Many of the older people in my country still think anyone from Africa (which by the way includes Afghanistan) is a monkey. By older I mean 50+ not even like 80 or 90.
The UK and France are definitely more tolerant and diverse, but they also imported black people as slaves way back when, so it’s not like they’re all that much better either.
Plus in much of Europe we still can’t stand gypsies. It’s literally the same thing as with black people in the US historically.
The Arab countries literally import slaves from South-East Asia and Africans can’t even stand other Africans based on cultural differences.
I don’t know, maybe South America? Uruguay nowadays is a pretty good place for everyone I hear. I wouldn’t want to be in South America in the 1900s but half of all that was US-caused anyway.
I don’t have to imagine being a black tourist in Japan, I can just ask the person I know who is one, right now, who says it’s fine. So is your thought experiment based on anyone’s actual experience, or just your racist stereotype of Japanese people?
Ok but how does any of that make it good? That’s being relativistic and we can do soooo much better than that, can’t we?
Do better than jerking off terrible people who are only “totally awesome” because they’re not as bad as some of the other options. Nothing is forcing them to be like that so they have no excuse, and the rest of my original point still stands that your opinion based on what you enjoyed to consume as a tourist is laughably out of touch.
You have still failed to provide an example of a better place.
Yea, because that was a deflection and not what we’re talking about. You said that the US has stood for diversity but at every stage of its existence it has stood on the backs and necks of minorities and has struggled to even admit that it has a problem. Even the last admin was ok with Israel wiping out every Palestinian man, woman, and child and sure that’s across the world but if they’re chill with genocide that sets the bar LOW. And buddy have you SEEN how they disenfranchise minority voters? The gerry-mandering maps are fucking WILD. They don’t give a fuck about the people who, to them, are just cheap labour.
Also I live in Canada which beat the US to gay marriage by 10 years and is where many black people escaped the US to. We are far from perfect but at least we had a female prime minister for a few months and a brown guy with a turban leads one of our three major parties. We also have a huge homeless problem but at least they have access to healthcare, and as far as surface-deep things like restaurants are concerned we have just as much diversity in our cities as the US does(and just as much bland, franchised nonsense out of the cities). French is our official second language but the US only has English despite all its Spanish speakers and the fact that a lot of it is straight-up old Mexican territory.
US stood for diversity, not against it.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/55574552-not-a-nation-of-immigrants
It is easy to criticize the one country that has the most different nationalities in it for its history with racism. However, can you name another country that has as large a share of minorities and does NOT have a history of racism?
Right off the bat all of Europe is already disqualified. The west dabbled in its’ own colonialism and the east under Soviet rule got so racist, the n-word is the standard way to refer to black people among people over 40. Remember that Yandex source code leak where the master-slave relationship (already a racist terminology) had “n***er” instead of slave? In many Asian countries, black people are also seen as subhuman. Scandinavia pretends to be super tolerant, but it’s superficial. Eastern Europeans are seen as lower class.
People don’t see that the entire world is racist as fuck. It’s so easy to blame a single country and act like it’s the only source of racism in the world. It might just be the most open about it, but there’s still quiet discrimination everywhere.
This is all just projecting the US’s racist settler-colonial history on others. Only a tiny minority of nations were founded in this same way, based on indigenous genocide and eviction (Israel, Australia, Canada are a few others).
Most US states didn’t even end miscegenation laws until the 1960s. It’s the only country on earth that still has slavery in fact and in law, enshrined in the 13th amendment.
The US currently operates a system of slave labor camps, including at least 54 prison farms involved in agricultural slave labor. Outside of agricultural slavery, Federal Prison Industries operates a multi-billion dollar industry with ~ 52 prison factories , where prisoners produce furniture, clothing, circuit boards, products for the military, computer aided design services, call center support for private companies. 1, 2, 3
- The US has the highest incarceration rates in the world. Even individual US states outrank all other countries.
I asked for a single country that was not racist in the 20th century, but had comparable diversity. You have not provided one yet.
The for-profit prison system is fucked for sure and no other country has fucked up this bad.
Pretty much every African country, most of se asia, most of south america, probably all but maybe 10 countries.
Asia is laughably racist. Africans literally genocide eachother without even having different skin colors. As soon as you add different people, tensions arise. It is natural and has been for all of human history, only recently have we begun to rise above it.
South Americans also literally have the term “gringo” for foreigners. Plus with how large catholicism is in South America, I doubt LGBT people are going to feel very comfortable either. Uruguay of course is a weird exception here.
You just either seem to think racism is only racism if it’s white prolly being racist against black people, or you don’t realize how much racism is really out there. Just because people don’t outright say they hate (insert race or nationality here) doesn’t mean they’re not racist.
Today I learned: calling citizens of colonizing countries “gringos” is comparable with genocide /s
test
Test great success!
I don’t hate all Americans, I’ve met some really cool ones over the years. But I do hate its fake democracy, its vulgar, parasitic oligarchs, its deceitful propaganda networks and the lust for war and global domination that drenches all three.
American exceptionalism is basically a circle-jerk.
I don’t get it
Pro-Euro vs anti-US. The “buy European” movement is generally occupied by a mixture of genuine anti-US protestors, as well as various European nationalists. Kinda like how cottagecore got captured by the far-right, the lack of a cohesive line is leading to some groups pushing Euro-flavored fascism as an alternative to US-flavored fascism, as far right parties increasingly gain ground in the EU.
You can’t generalize so much, the reasons are much broader. It is mainly that it is not desirable that a single country controls the largest part of the internet, and until now that the EU depends almost entirely to applications and services of the US, which, especially in the current situation and the policy of Trump, this dependency and subordination will have dire consequences. Is to promote the technology of european, to convert the EU as a sovereign state at the height of the eye with the current giants technologicas that account for all the market, many times abusive. Monopolies are never desirable, because they tend to be destructive…
Generalizations will always miss finer details, I agree, but this is a phenomenon I have noticed.
The main reason, at least for me, is the mencioned. Too long the EU was the Frog, boiled by the US.
Soooo, when will all this anti-US consumerist movement result in those Levis 501 jeans I’ve been eyeing dropping in price?
I’m hoping for the perfect intersection of price drop and waistline drop.
Never because Levi’s still wants to make money.
I boycott american products because they simply are not worth their price
That’s a pretty Liberal take from someone using a “Lemmygrad” account.
a liberal take would be to consume something only based by its place of origin
I don’t see how it’s liberal, Marxists don’t take a vow of poverty or reject the laws of economics. US-made products generally are higher priced compared to equivalent performance due to Imperialism inflating costs of production in the Global North.
Fair enough.
