Hi all, Relatively long time Linux user (2017 to be precise), and about two 3rds of that time has been on Arch and its derivatives.
Been running Endeavour OS for at least 2.5 years now. It’s a solid distro until it’s not. I’d go for months without a single issue then an update comes out of nowhere and just ruins everything to either no return, or just causes me to chase after a fix for hours, and sometimes days. I’m kinda getting tired of this trend of sudden and uncalled for issues.
It’s like a hammer drops on you without you seeing it. I wish they were smaller issues, no, they’re always major. Most of the time I’d just reinstall, and I hate that. It’s so much work for me.
I set things the way I like them and then they’re ruined, and the hunt begins. I have been wanting to switch for a long time, and I honestly have even been looking into some of those immutable distros (that’s how much I don’t want to be fixing my system.
I’m tired, I just want to use my system to get work done). I was also told that Nobara is really good (is it? Never tried it). My only hold back — and it’s probably silly to some of you— is the AUR. I love it.
It’s the most convenient thing ever, and possibly the main reason why I have stuck with Arch and its kids. Everything is there.
So, what do y’all recommend? I was once told by some kind soul to use an immutable distro and setup “distrobox” on it if I wanted the AUR.
I’ve never tried this “distrobox” thing (I can research it, no problem). I also game here and there and would like to squeeze as much performance as I can out of my PC (all AMD, BTW, and I only play single player games).
So, I don’t know what to do. I need y’all’s suggestions, please. I’ll aggregate all of the suggestions and go through them and (hopefully) come up with something good for my sanity. Please suggest anything you think fits my situation. I don’t care, I will 100% appreciate every single suggestion and look into it.
I’m planning to take it slow on the switch, and do a lot of research before switching. Unless my system shits the bed more than now then I don’t know. I currently can’t upgrade my system, as I wouldn’t be able to log in after the update. It just fails to log in.
I had to restore a 10 days old snapshot to be able to get back into my damn desktop. I have already copied my whole home directory into another drive I have on my PC, so if shit hits the fan, I’ll at least have my data. Help a tired brother out, please <3. Thank you so much in advance.
I’ve been wanting to try out NixOS for this very reason lately (although I don’t break my system often). If everything works for me there, I’ll switch to it.
Yep, this is the answer. Set it, forget it, accidentally have your hard drive destroyed irrecoverably, and re-set everything up to the exact working state you were used to in under 15min.
It’s a fair bit of initial setup and learning, but afterwards, the word “stable” takes on a new meaning.
I’ve thought about nix, but it looks like it has a somewhat steep learning curve, and I honestly don’t even have the time for that :/
For run of the mill sys admin stuff, you don’t need to dive too deep. Even my reasonably complex needs of containers and mixed workstations is, imo pretty parsable from an intuitive perspective. I was reluctant at first but once I saw how a general sys admin would use it, it made my life so much easier.
Highly recommended.
Fedora. Ubuntu lost the crown.
AUR isn’t the Arch package manager. It’s a user-contributed package definition repo.
OpenSUSE Leap is the way to go my dude. It’s been formulated by pedantic Germans and you can’t go wrong with YAST for package management.
Fedora Workstation has been really good in my experience. The available software is shockingly up to date and I haven’t run into much breakage of any kind in the year or so I’ve been using it across 2 systems (despite my best efforts every few months when the urge to tinker hits me). I do occasionally run into issues caused by the default SELinux policies, but they’re not especially difficult to work around if you’re comfortable using the terminal.
I do share your sentiment about the AUR - I definitely miss it at times. That said, Flatpaks and the fact that pre-built RPMs are so commonplace have both softened the blow a lot.
Came from Arch and OpenSuse. Fedora has been such a great switch. As I’ve gotten older and became a dad, my computer time at home is limited and I don’t have endless evenings to troubleshoot shit. Fedora has been stable for me for the last 4 years. I use the KDE spin.
Thank you. I’ve run Fedora for a long while, too. Albeit, it was a while ago (not sure how good it is now), but I’ve never had any luck with its kde version. It was always broken (for me at least). Also, hunting for apps was kind of a big issue. Then come copr repos. But I guess we have a good case with flatpaks now. Even thought I couldn’t use them before due to storage constraints, but now, that’s not an issue. So, I’ll keep Fedora in mind. I appreciate you
It’s currently the most simple to use and “just works” option.
I reckon that mantle should go to Fedora Silverblue over Fedora Workstation.
Personally found an immutable distro to be too restrictive at the moment when it comes to installing non flatpak software. If all your apps are flatpaks then everything just works and its great and super stable however some apps I just couldn’t get working with distrobox. Switch to fedora workstation from ublue aurora and have loved it. Been super stable and everything just works
Try blendOS. It’s basically Arch but immutable. And SteamOS also exists.
It has been some time since I gave this a proper look. Do you use this yourself? If so, would you be so kind to share some of your experiences?
I used Silverblue and tried HoloISO, but it’s the same thing.
OpenSuse Leap or even Tumbleweed. After getting the media codecs up and running, and remembering to set you firewall zone to “home”, you’re pretty golden.
Opensuse is absolutely not a set it and forget it distro. I get recommending your favorite distro to other users, but telling them it’s an easy to use distro is absolutely false and sets them up for disappointment. You have to download the codecs yourself if you want to do so much as watch a video on firefox, for which you have to add a new repo. I’ve tried it for two days and I’ve already spent half of them fixing bugs or snapping back to a version that worked because it froze after sleeping before I even did anything with it other than log in.
… that is def not my case, openSUSE is saving me a lot of time.
I’ve switched all my fiends & family (desktops) to Tumbleweed like 5 years ago bcs I don’t have to do any maintenance ever (not even customisation at the beginning, beyond setting them accounts). It has always been stable with exception that they only became “almost” out-of-the-box gaming friendly only in recent year or two.
Tumbleweed is just there, always updated, and feels nice. Oh, it’s not the quickest boot maybe?
Previously (15+ years, maybe 20 my parents) I had my family on Debians/Ubuntus which were stable but always very fiddly to distro upgrade, I don’t even remember what went wrong with old Fedora, but I changed it back in less than a year (almost 10 years ago, not relevant).
I can’t speak for you but I didn’t have to do any of that, my installs worked out of the box…
Look, this is the reason people pay RedHat money. Go install Rocky Linux, turn on all the automatic updates and ignore it for the next five years.
On the enthusiast side, NixOS seems to be working fine if you want newer versions of software or larger repos.
NixOS is great if you’re ready to learn Nix, which is an undertaking
I guess we can formulate a law:
- Stable
- Easy to use
- Up-to-date
Pick any two.
Garuda is about the same.
Arch base, preconfigured for btrfs snapshots on Pacman updates (and they provide a handy
garuda-updatewrapper to that), many niceties already done for you.I’ve used the snapshot feature a couple times and only because the Nvidia drivers botched something horribly and I went back to the same snapshot a couple times.
And I use distrobox (rootless podman FTW) for some crap too. Like that time I needed WebEx at a moment’s notice for a call (and they only provide a deb and rpm). Or spur of the moment dev environments when I don’t wanna futz around with vscode devcontainers.
But with arch-based stuff, you gotta read the Pacman output. If you don’t wanna, definitely reconsider immutable. Next time I can be bothered to reinstall, that’s where I’m headed. Heck, you can start a distrobox with Arch and install all the AUR shit you please without a major worry.
Their ISOs are broken and don’t boot. Tried every single one, changed USB flash drives, nope none of them booted. Used the same drive for another distro and it booted just fine
Well that’s not good…
They seem to be reasonably active, so I would imagine that situation won’t last long.
I surely hope so.
Bazzite
OP, another vote for this one.
It addresses your concerns in a wonderful way:
- Reliability; While it’s far from unique in this regard, I’d argue that the uBlue distros are one of if not the most reliable desktop Linux experience that’s currently out there. You know most of the drill already (read: built-in rollback functionality, clean base system). But, the uBlue project has some aces up on their sleeves that (to my knowledge) are pretty unique:
- “Ninety (90) days of image archives allowing for flexible rollback options.” The images are stored online, so they don’t even take space on your device.
- Shared community maintenance, i.e. even if upstream has a rare fuck-up, you can trust on uBlue’s maintainers to deal with it without you even noticing. For a recent example of this, we got this.
- Access to the AUR; while Distrobox can be installed on any distro, uBlue projects come with perks that make the whole experience better than it’s found elsewhere. From quadlets that have been properly setup from the get-go so that you don’t have to (additionally) maintain those distrobox containers, to even minor things like including Boxbuddy OOTB to make the transition as easy as they come.
- Setup for Gaming; It goes without saying that Bazzite is excellent for gaming. It’s gaming-ready OOTB and includes (almost[1]) all the performance tweaks you’d wish.
- Setup and forget; I (almost[2]) don’t know any other distro that better embodies this than Bazzite (and its other uBlue-relatives).
All in all, I think Bazzite is definitely worth a look. Consider installing it and setup to your heart’s content. If -at any time during or after that process- you come across an insurmountable[3] issue caused by its atomic/cloud-native/‘immutable’ nature, then you can check it off your list and look elsewhere.
- CachyOS is still superior in this regard by doing a better job at inching out (literally) every performance gain out there.
- Perhaps Endless OS does an even better job at this, but that would be a bad recommendation for all the other reasons.
- Before giving up, if you wouldn’t have done it by then, at least consider contacting the community through their Discord server. They’re very helpful. FWIW, Bazzite has pretty excellent documentation as well. (Even if it ain’t as exhaustive as the even more impressive ArchWiki. Granted, it doesn’t have to be as expansive.)
- Reliability; While it’s far from unique in this regard, I’d argue that the uBlue distros are one of if not the most reliable desktop Linux experience that’s currently out there. You know most of the drill already (read: built-in rollback functionality, clean base system). But, the uBlue project has some aces up on their sleeves that (to my knowledge) are pretty unique:
I use Bluefin myself, and it’s honestly been game changing. Using an immutable distro has been the greatest quality of life upgrade in my 15 years of using Linux.
Also, if you use distrobox (automatically installed with Bluefin, Aurora, Bazzite, etc.) you can even setup an Arch container and continue to use the AUR. I use Steam installed from within an Arch container and it doesn’t feel any different from a natively installed app. It also means I don’t have to use the Steam flatpak which I had a couple issues with.
Seconded, I moved my gaming rig is on Bazzite and has been trouble free and maintenance free ever since.
I installed Bluefin on the laptop I gave my father, and it’s been happily running trouble-free every single day since August without a single intervention. And my father is the kind of man who can conjure up unknown bugs, weird failures and random crashes by simple hand contact.
Literally said they don’t want immutable.
Literally said they don’t want immutable.
At best, they might have implied it. (But I don’t think they do.) Here are the (relevant) snippets:
I honestly have even been looking into some of those immutable distros (that’s how much I don’t want to be fixing my system. I’m tired, I just want to use my system to get work done)
I was once told by some kind soul to use an immutable distro and setup “distrobox” on it if I wanted the AUR.
“I just want to use my system”, and specifying they love AUR means to go immutable distro for you? I bet you’re fun in bed.
You’re literally incorrect and have problems reading words directly in front of you. They literally say in their post that they are looking at immutable distros.
Log off if you’re unable to provide anything of value to this thread.
Nowhere did they say that those statements mean immutable to them. Just that your claims that OP “literally said they didn’t want immutable” is not based in reality.
You are confidentially incorrect. I suggest you actually take the time to read the post again.
I honestly have even been looking into some of those immutable distros (that’s how much I don’t want to be fixing my system.
I never wanted a hobby, but rather an operating system. I’ve been using Pop! for over six years. I only had one stretch where I felt like I was chasing annoying bugs and I don’t remember it clearly enough to remember how long it lasted.
I never wanted a hobby, but rather an operating system.
That’s exactly how I’m starting to feel. I was a “distro-hopper” when I was new to it, but now I just want shit to work. The only thing stopping me from pop is the state of their distro at current time. It feels like it’s been abondened or something. I know they’re busy with cosmic, but that’s what it looks like. Also, I’m a kde plasma only person. I just can’t use anything else.
My favorite distros are Gentoo and Debian.
I can say with confidence that Linux Mint is what you’re looking for.
Wow, what a wall of text. I’m sorry but I’m sure I skimmed some parts.
Look. The bulk of the replies you’re going to get will be like “this is my favourite distro and here’s how it works for you” not “this is the best distro for your criteria.” It’s important to understand the deep level of bias you’re going to get.
But your cause is a noble one. I use a particular style of distro because it can be trusted to install well, back out well, do both safely, and allow validation at every stage. I think it’s a good candidate, and it’s already been mentioned as a really great ‘set it and forget it’ distro.
Good luck.
I’ve been using Linux for more than a decade and distro hopped quite a bit. Mint used to be my happy place, but recently within the last 5 years or so I’ve been on Arch derivatives. Endeavour was never stable enough for my liking, but Manjaro has been great. I did have to go back to a snapshot once, fairly recently, but that was primary because I fecked it up and not due to an update.
You mentioned that you have tried several Arch-based distros, so I’m not sure if this includes Manjaro.
Look. I’ve been there. I started my Linux journey with Arch based distros, then distrohopped a lot, and finally found the best for me, and what I personally consider the best either for normal users or those that don’t want to do any maintenance.
It’s the Universal Blue family of distros: Bazzite (gaming / KDE / gnome) Aurora (standard / development / KDE) Bluefin (standard / development / gnome)
Set it and forget about it. It just freaking works. For GUI apps install from the Discover app store (which uses Flatpak), for cli apps use Homebrew (brew install whatever). If you can’t find something, open Distrobox (already included) create an Arch container, install whatever you want from the AUR, and use it like you’re used to. It works like freaking magic.
If somehow you manage to brick your installation, when you reboot you’ll be able to boot to a past snapshot.
You just can’t fail with this. It’s the best of the best IMHO.
You absolutely can fail. I daily drive bazzite but many things have been pretty rough:
Any coding apps that will use an external device -> you can’t use flatpak. You have to use distrobox that constantly freezes your entire mouse for 3-5 seconds upon any sort of dialog, settings, saving, anything where it has to access the filesystem. Then you have to add udev rules to directories that in the documentation says not to write to, and reloading the rules doesn’t work for testing, you have to fully restart with every minor change or it will seem like the change didn’t work.
Luckily most device drivers seem to work in the provided arch distrobox but holy dependency hell. Things will fail to install because they need a package that exists on the host but not the container so you get an unsolvable “file exists” conflict. When installing a package, it will sometimes just try to grab an old version of a dependency specifically that will 404 out instead of just grabbing the most recent version (never happened on arch itself to me)
Setting up a plasma vault with gocryptfs was not fun figuring out how. Also ran into tons of dependency problems and the fact that fedora just abandoned it specifically. Ended up just having to stick the binary in a random folder and point to it.
Any sort of document authentication/signing -> doesn’t work and will not work in the future for a long time.
You absolutely have to install rpms still for corectrl, any external devices, like drawing tablets, etc…
Some games inexplicably use <50% GPU and <40% CPU with terrible framerates and will not go any higher (or lower) no matter what, switching between low and high settings and resolution results in 0fps change.
When I have my config set and don’t have to change anything, it is super super nice to never have to manually update, but anything outside of very basic usage is weaving through nonstandard undocumented territory.
Bazzite trades maintenance headaches for configuration and installation headaches. For me, that is worth it.
I’m sorry Bazzite didn’t work out for you.
Your use case sounds like a better fit for Arch, since you have very specific needs like adding uncommon device drivers, gocryptfs, udev rules, etc. For anyone else, wanting to try Bazzite, I’ll answer the rest of the topics:
Flatpak apps with external devices
All apps I’ve tried support external devices just fine, in the event the app you need doesn’t support external devices out of the box, try adding USB device access through the app’s permissions in the System Settings app.
Distrobox Freezes & dependencies
I have an all AMD desktop PC, and an intel laptop, Distrobox runs perfectly fine. Every package will rely on dependencies inside Distrobox.
Edit: after writing this post, I realized I needed someway to de-drm my Audible books, so I installed the Libation RPM in my Fedora Distrobox, it failed to launch because it needed libicu or something like that, so I opened the Fedora Distrobox terminal and typed sudo dnf install libicu, done. Launched perfectly like it was installed on my base Bazzite installation. But all the dependencies remain isolated, unable to crap all over my system if something happens. My system remains shielded from dependency apocalypse.
Encryption
Bazzite supports LUKS full disk encryption.
corectrl
Use LACT, you can install it through the Bazzite Portal (that’s Bazzite 1st run app, you can run it anytime though)
RPMs are needed for any external devices, like drawing tablets, etc…
Any external devices would be a great overstatement. I have the standard PC Peripherals, then I have: xbox 360 controllers, xbox series X controllers, Thrustmaster Wheel, Logitech x56 Flight Stick, none of them require any RPM and just work out of the box, unlike on Windows. For drawing tablets, there are tons that are supported right out of the box without any additional driver, for example Wacom.
For any developers out there wanting to customize Bazzite to fit your particular use case, you can even easily fork the distro and build your own and still get auto-updates, with any additional device drivers, RPMs, and whatever else you want to fulfill your edge use case. Follow this link here.
I came from Arch to Fedora as well but using Universal Blue’s images. In my case, Aurora (KDE), and daughter’s Bluefin (Gnome). They update in the background and only install when you reboot. So far, most of the newer software releases such as web browsers or the desktop environment fall within a day or two for being installed which is a nice alternative. The big plus I see on these too is they are immutable so if something installs or breaks, you just boot into the previous version from Grub and go from there.
Additionally, OpenSuse MicroOS has options for whatever environment you are used to such as Gnome or KDE, this is immutable as well. I view all of these as “Set and Forget”.
I didnt even remember which os I had until I read this and remembered it was aurora
Wtf 😂
Do external devices work? Like Xbox controller, printers and stuff like that?
