Oh man, if only there was a way for them to force acceptance of these beneficial ideas.
Like getting local reps elected who support those ideas to push the party as a whole farther towards those ideas.
Instead of just saying “but it’s for a just society!” Once every four years and then wondering why they never get support.
I agree it would be awesome if we could make a hard shift left and move to a more just society for everyone in it but dreams don’t just pop into reality, there has to be work done and I don’t see a lot of them helping out. Certainly not where I’m trying to gather support for the same ideas.
Always “too busy to help” until a presidential election rolls around, which is fucking infuriating.
If only people here bothered to try and understand how nuanced actual politics are and that shit can’t be simplified so easily just because you happen to think in simple terms.
So you think trade agreements that go back decades and overcoming partisan congressional policy is simple?
Why aren’t you doing it then, bud?
Because from where I see things, just simply saying:
“I don’t like when he cOmMiTs a gEnOciDe!”
isn’t doing shit to stop it- and is only hurting the chances anyone has to not make it exponentially worse when Donald “let’s finish the job” Trump takes over.
Because you see, although you seem to get upset when I call people propagandists, it’s not a huge leap to make when you’ve asked these people time and time again how they can justify urging people not to vote knowing it’ll be so much worse if Trump wins. How about I start calling them “bigots” because they will knowingly be causing our LGBTQ+ friends and family to suffer by allowing a Trump victory to happen. Or what about I call them “misogynists” for allowing Trump to win and run roughshod over women’s rights?
Considering the matter at hand, I think propagandist is a nice and relevant catch-all to describe those that are urging people not to vote against Trump.
Oh also, most of these people have no suggestions for who they’d have take Biden’s place that has any chance of winning the White House, but they seem to k ow Biden is not the guy. Again, from where I stand- if you’re not offering a solution to your suggestion, it’s not a valid suggestion. Someone gets elected regardless if you vote or not.
So if it’s okay with you, I’m going to call out the propaganda when I see it- as I see it without your permission.
It’s pretty well understood that the term SJW represents your typical keyboard warrior that whines about politics they don’t like or understand during election years to the point that they will urge people not to vote only to spend the time between election years complaining about the results of their inaction.
They’re not part of the solution, they’re part of the problem.
From the sorts of things I’ve seen, it’s anyone with “blue hair and pronouns”, particularly if they have had a particularly viral moment that can be easily inserted into “Woke SJWs OWNED” clip compilations. Typing on a keyboard doesn’t make for very good visual content, but I suppose posts clipped to show how cringe SJWs are is probably what you’re referring to.
Somehow, I doubt you have a full picture of their political activities based only off what someone else was able to turn into ragebait.
Okay. We’re clearly not talking about the same thing, and I don’t argue with people that rearrange my words and spit them back at me in the form of things I never said.
Yep. Like SJW. The people that don’t do shit but whine on the internet, then disappear until they next election year only to find something to whine about and use as an excuse to urge people not to vote over.
What an absolutely deranged claim. What is it that “SJWs” are advocating for that you think is invalid? Because if it’s something along the lines of “they should stop advocating for an oppressed group of people” you should really consider what it means to try to build political power. Unless you’re going for “if we give the billionaires more stuff, maybe they’ll let us have medical care, as a treat.”
They’re essentially just disposable social justice advocates. They bitch and moan during election years then banish right after only to return as victims of their own inability to do the actual work to net the change they demanded.
See, doing the work, I see a lot of people pushing back online saying “but are you going to vote for my candidate for the promise of maybe one day doing the work you’re doing”? Like, genuinely, I’ve been being asked if I’m voting for Biden in 2024 for years, as if the only thing that matters is the election. Caring about a very specific election for four years is not all that distinguishable from only caring once every four years. And when the alternative political power structures try to express what little political power they have, the establishment runs back to “but if you don’t vote for us regardless of what we do, the other guys will be worse”. Even when there are examples of doing something as “awful” and “dangerous” as withholding an endorsement in an election year can be shown to be actually effective and get actual good work done (see: the UAW holding off on endorsing Biden until he actually went to bat for them and helped get landmark contracts passed). Should we considet the Biden or Bust crew that’s been beating the drum the past four years just as disposable and unable to effect change they demand?
Okay… either purposefully or not- you’re twisting the topic into something else.
If you’re voting- good. If you’re not, you’re part of the problem. It isn’t “Biden or Bust” it’s “Democracy or Bust” and it’s late enough in the game that everyone knows this. I’m not going to argue the nuance of the situation. We’re past that. If you want the change you so badly desire, maybe do the work between elections- and if you have been, maybe stand with us against those that are using your work to represent the ideology that not voting nets change.
It’s not that it’s invalid, it’s that typically most people have no desire or input into the political sphere through their own choices right up until the presidential election and then get pissy that the things they want aren’t being done.
No shit, if you want them done you have to show up for more than one election to build the political capital to do it.
Does that mean their ideas are invalid?
No, just that you can’t sit out 90% of the time and then expect to be taken seriously.
If they are “SJWs”, the claim isn’t really that they aren’t politically active, is it? In fact, the claim is that they aren’t spending the four years between presidential elections focused on the next presidential election. As it happens, if you are building political power, spending all that time and energy focused on a single national race is almost certainly a waste of resources. So, what’s the claim here? That “SJWs” spend far too much time concerned about the actual lives of people to engage in “enough” political advocacy to convince a preexisting party to handle those issues instead?
I think it makes far more sense to do the work and advocacy that is required to make people’s lives better directly, and thus have built a popular movement that the major parties want to jump on the bandwagon of, rather than spend years trying to convince these lumbering facets of the establishment that they should do the work instead.
The claim is that they glom onto good causes when visibly suitable, which is for major elections. It’s that the vast majority are not active in any election other than when they pop up for a presidential election.
Posting on Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, and other message boards does not mean politically active per se unless you count screaming into an echo chamber.
What you’re talking about in the second paragraph is what is desired, what is usually seen are Instagram and message board posts with little actual action until a presidential election where suddenly they pop out of the woodwork and scream that things aren’t fair.
No shit things aren’t fair, those of us actually being active trying to get local support for the same ideas get pissed at the sudden influx of people with good intentions but no idea how to act on them other than lambast the groups who aren’t perfect enough for them.
I don’t know how you got “only focused on the presidential election for four years” fromy previous post.
I don’t know how you got “only focused on the presidential election for four years” fromy previous post.
That would be the context of the thread you were responding to. As in:
Maybe if the SJWs would fucking pay attention in between elections and not pout and withhold their votes on Election Day…
And, yeah, limiting the focus to visibility campaigns on social media does mean that the focus is limited to visibility campaigns. So, you know, don’t do that. There are plenty of orgs doing lots of work, and complaining about this poster’s visibility campaign or that poster’s lack of practical activity on social media is an exercise in second-ordrr futility. Expect activity other than visibility campaigns in places where activity other than visibility campaigns can actually happen, and not on social media where they mostly can’t.
Ahh… so, we can just make up all the unverifiable work all the SJWs do so as to have a counter-argument.
Okay. Let’s assume this is a proven point and go with that.
If there actually is a lot of work in-between elections… then it’s NOT done by SJWs. Maybe understand that the term “SJW” is not all-encompassing. It doesn’t include people actually doing work.
It’s a short-hand derogatory to mean- keyboard warriors that whine about social unjust and do nothing else.
How are you verifying the existence of these keyboard warriors who only whine? I know plenty of people politically active in my community who also have a penchant for arguing online. It is somewhat more difficult for me to verify the behavior of people who I only know online, owing to the fact that I can only tell what those people do by what they post and what makes it way to my feeds.
So are you going to serially suggest that there aren’t any movements during election years that tell people not to vote? Because I’ll have you remember something called “Bernie Bros” which as I recall, were defining people NOT to vote in 2016, and in 2020 some of them even voted for Trump.
THOSE PEOPLE WERE/ARE SJWS.
You’re too tied up in trying to defend people who aren’t considered SJWs. I’m not talkin g about the people you are. So just stop man.
We probably agree on this here but you’re FAR too busy defending people I’m not even talking about.
It’s essentially the newer slang-term for “keyboard warrior”
I still see no context for “they should only focus on presidential elections” from “maybe if they paid attention in between elections, and not pout and withhold votes on election day”.
The only time we hear them complain is when the presidential election comes up, so if we take that as a standard and ask them to focus on between that means pay attention to the elections that aren’t the presidential one…
I am active in non social media campaigns, so when I see the lack of support there but massive support on social media every four years, it does drive the narrative that they don’t care in between for the people that could actually do what they want.
They’re complaining about the final product while not involving themselves in any step of the process getting there, WHICH INCLUDES GETTING THE LOCAL REPS ELECTED TO SWAY THE DIRECTION OF THE PARTY BEYOND JUST THE PRESIDENT.
Maybe if the SJWs would fucking pay attention in between elections and not pout and withhold their votes on Election Day…
This wouldn’t be a problem. But no- it’s the fault of voters.
Fucking lunacy.
Democratic Party leadership has known this to be a factor for decades, and has steadfastly refused to adapt to the existing political reality.
What that whiny SJWs cannot be negotiated with? Finally we agree on something.
And we know if they gave into the demands of social justice warriors, we’d have to live in a more just society!
How awful.
Oh man, if only there was a way for them to force acceptance of these beneficial ideas. Like getting local reps elected who support those ideas to push the party as a whole farther towards those ideas. Instead of just saying “but it’s for a just society!” Once every four years and then wondering why they never get support.
I agree it would be awesome if we could make a hard shift left and move to a more just society for everyone in it but dreams don’t just pop into reality, there has to be work done and I don’t see a lot of them helping out. Certainly not where I’m trying to gather support for the same ideas. Always “too busy to help” until a presidential election rolls around, which is fucking infuriating.
If only people here bothered to try and understand how nuanced actual politics are and that shit can’t be simplified so easily just because you happen to think in simple terms.
you’re the one unironically calling people SJW’s. i think the matter at hand is extremely simple lmao
So you think trade agreements that go back decades and overcoming partisan congressional policy is simple?
Why aren’t you doing it then, bud?
Because from where I see things, just simply saying:
“I don’t like when he cOmMiTs a gEnOciDe!”
isn’t doing shit to stop it- and is only hurting the chances anyone has to not make it exponentially worse when Donald “let’s finish the job” Trump takes over.
Because you see, although you seem to get upset when I call people propagandists, it’s not a huge leap to make when you’ve asked these people time and time again how they can justify urging people not to vote knowing it’ll be so much worse if Trump wins. How about I start calling them “bigots” because they will knowingly be causing our LGBTQ+ friends and family to suffer by allowing a Trump victory to happen. Or what about I call them “misogynists” for allowing Trump to win and run roughshod over women’s rights?
Considering the matter at hand, I think propagandist is a nice and relevant catch-all to describe those that are urging people not to vote against Trump.
Oh also, most of these people have no suggestions for who they’d have take Biden’s place that has any chance of winning the White House, but they seem to k ow Biden is not the guy. Again, from where I stand- if you’re not offering a solution to your suggestion, it’s not a valid suggestion. Someone gets elected regardless if you vote or not.
So if it’s okay with you, I’m going to call out the propaganda when I see it- as I see it without your permission.
Cool?
I bow to your clearly highly nuanced take of checks notes “people who care about social justice are a bunch of whiners who are bad at politics”.
It’s pretty well understood that the term SJW represents your typical keyboard warrior that whines about politics they don’t like or understand during election years to the point that they will urge people not to vote only to spend the time between election years complaining about the results of their inaction.
They’re not part of the solution, they’re part of the problem.
From the sorts of things I’ve seen, it’s anyone with “blue hair and pronouns”, particularly if they have had a particularly viral moment that can be easily inserted into “Woke SJWs OWNED” clip compilations. Typing on a keyboard doesn’t make for very good visual content, but I suppose posts clipped to show how cringe SJWs are is probably what you’re referring to.
Somehow, I doubt you have a full picture of their political activities based only off what someone else was able to turn into ragebait.
Okay. We’re clearly not talking about the same thing, and I don’t argue with people that rearrange my words and spit them back at me in the form of things I never said.
Stop doing that, and have a good day.
Simple terms… like “SJW”?
Yep. Like SJW. The people that don’t do shit but whine on the internet, then disappear until they next election year only to find something to whine about and use as an excuse to urge people not to vote over.
Steve Bannon is a pussy.
Yes he is. Without a doubt.
So you understand the political reality and recognize that party leadership needs to adapt to the electorate they have.
The SJWs aren’t the ones abstaining, it’s the centrists on lemmy.ml
What an absolutely deranged claim. What is it that “SJWs” are advocating for that you think is invalid? Because if it’s something along the lines of “they should stop advocating for an oppressed group of people” you should really consider what it means to try to build political power. Unless you’re going for “if we give the billionaires more stuff, maybe they’ll let us have medical care, as a treat.”
They’re essentially just disposable social justice advocates. They bitch and moan during election years then banish right after only to return as victims of their own inability to do the actual work to net the change they demanded.
This happens every election.
See, doing the work, I see a lot of people pushing back online saying “but are you going to vote for my candidate for the promise of maybe one day doing the work you’re doing”? Like, genuinely, I’ve been being asked if I’m voting for Biden in 2024 for years, as if the only thing that matters is the election. Caring about a very specific election for four years is not all that distinguishable from only caring once every four years. And when the alternative political power structures try to express what little political power they have, the establishment runs back to “but if you don’t vote for us regardless of what we do, the other guys will be worse”. Even when there are examples of doing something as “awful” and “dangerous” as withholding an endorsement in an election year can be shown to be actually effective and get actual good work done (see: the UAW holding off on endorsing Biden until he actually went to bat for them and helped get landmark contracts passed). Should we considet the Biden or Bust crew that’s been beating the drum the past four years just as disposable and unable to effect change they demand?
Okay… either purposefully or not- you’re twisting the topic into something else.
If you’re voting- good. If you’re not, you’re part of the problem. It isn’t “Biden or Bust” it’s “Democracy or Bust” and it’s late enough in the game that everyone knows this. I’m not going to argue the nuance of the situation. We’re past that. If you want the change you so badly desire, maybe do the work between elections- and if you have been, maybe stand with us against those that are using your work to represent the ideology that not voting nets change.
Because it’s undermining everything you’ve done.
I’m done discussing this.
It’s not that it’s invalid, it’s that typically most people have no desire or input into the political sphere through their own choices right up until the presidential election and then get pissy that the things they want aren’t being done.
No shit, if you want them done you have to show up for more than one election to build the political capital to do it. Does that mean their ideas are invalid? No, just that you can’t sit out 90% of the time and then expect to be taken seriously.
Exactly this.
If they are “SJWs”, the claim isn’t really that they aren’t politically active, is it? In fact, the claim is that they aren’t spending the four years between presidential elections focused on the next presidential election. As it happens, if you are building political power, spending all that time and energy focused on a single national race is almost certainly a waste of resources. So, what’s the claim here? That “SJWs” spend far too much time concerned about the actual lives of people to engage in “enough” political advocacy to convince a preexisting party to handle those issues instead?
I think it makes far more sense to do the work and advocacy that is required to make people’s lives better directly, and thus have built a popular movement that the major parties want to jump on the bandwagon of, rather than spend years trying to convince these lumbering facets of the establishment that they should do the work instead.
The claim is that they glom onto good causes when visibly suitable, which is for major elections. It’s that the vast majority are not active in any election other than when they pop up for a presidential election. Posting on Facebook, TikTok, Instagram, and other message boards does not mean politically active per se unless you count screaming into an echo chamber.
What you’re talking about in the second paragraph is what is desired, what is usually seen are Instagram and message board posts with little actual action until a presidential election where suddenly they pop out of the woodwork and scream that things aren’t fair.
No shit things aren’t fair, those of us actually being active trying to get local support for the same ideas get pissed at the sudden influx of people with good intentions but no idea how to act on them other than lambast the groups who aren’t perfect enough for them.
I don’t know how you got “only focused on the presidential election for four years” fromy previous post.
That would be the context of the thread you were responding to. As in:
And, yeah, limiting the focus to visibility campaigns on social media does mean that the focus is limited to visibility campaigns. So, you know, don’t do that. There are plenty of orgs doing lots of work, and complaining about this poster’s visibility campaign or that poster’s lack of practical activity on social media is an exercise in second-ordrr futility. Expect activity other than visibility campaigns in places where activity other than visibility campaigns can actually happen, and not on social media where they mostly can’t.
Ahh… so, we can just make up all the unverifiable work all the SJWs do so as to have a counter-argument.
Okay. Let’s assume this is a proven point and go with that.
If there actually is a lot of work in-between elections… then it’s NOT done by SJWs. Maybe understand that the term “SJW” is not all-encompassing. It doesn’t include people actually doing work.
It’s a short-hand derogatory to mean- keyboard warriors that whine about social unjust and do nothing else.
THOSE are the people I’m referencing. Savvy?
How are you verifying the existence of these keyboard warriors who only whine? I know plenty of people politically active in my community who also have a penchant for arguing online. It is somewhat more difficult for me to verify the behavior of people who I only know online, owing to the fact that I can only tell what those people do by what they post and what makes it way to my feeds.
So are you going to serially suggest that there aren’t any movements during election years that tell people not to vote? Because I’ll have you remember something called “Bernie Bros” which as I recall, were defining people NOT to vote in 2016, and in 2020 some of them even voted for Trump.
THOSE PEOPLE WERE/ARE SJWS.
You’re too tied up in trying to defend people who aren’t considered SJWs. I’m not talkin g about the people you are. So just stop man.
We probably agree on this here but you’re FAR too busy defending people I’m not even talking about.
It’s essentially the newer slang-term for “keyboard warrior”
I count how many are moaning in my local message boards vs the people that show up for actual actions in person. The difference is staggering.
I still see no context for “they should only focus on presidential elections” from “maybe if they paid attention in between elections, and not pout and withhold votes on election day”.
The only time we hear them complain is when the presidential election comes up, so if we take that as a standard and ask them to focus on between that means pay attention to the elections that aren’t the presidential one… I am active in non social media campaigns, so when I see the lack of support there but massive support on social media every four years, it does drive the narrative that they don’t care in between for the people that could actually do what they want. They’re complaining about the final product while not involving themselves in any step of the process getting there, WHICH INCLUDES GETTING THE LOCAL REPS ELECTED TO SWAY THE DIRECTION OF THE PARTY BEYOND JUST THE PRESIDENT.
This is exactly what I’m saying.
Steve Bannon is a pussy.
Yes he is. Without a doubt.