Lemmy, I have a problem. I fuck up social interactions incredibly frequently, far more often and severely than others do.
I will be speaking what I feel is casually and consistently, and the person I am speaking with will suddenly have a significant change in their demeanor and speech. It both makes me feel bad that they react this way and frustrates me that I made an incorrect interaction.
This doesn’t really occur with people I don’t know well. Rather, it occurs with the people I spend the most time with…my coworkers. I am forced to interact with them all day due to my specific job. With one of them, I would consider them to be my only friend.
I have noticed that they all have specific unspoken “triggers” of speech or behavior that I need to minimize or hide when in front of them. But there are always instances where I cannot recognize a pattern. And even when I can kind of figure out a pattern, I sometimes fail to implement it.
You know the phrase, “think before you speak” right? But how the hell does one apply that to large swaths of conversations that occur all day long? It would be incredibly jarring and odd for me to make large pauses between each and every sentence I make. Is there a better shortcut to this?
Here are some examples of “off limits” speech/behavior patterns that I have noticed among various people:
Coworker 1 - speech that shows mental weakness (esp anxiety), making a workplace error, anxious body language (this one is particularly difficult)
Coworker 2 - speech that shows mental weakness (esp anxiety), statements that are too negative, offering to let them leave work early
Coworker 3 - statements that are too negative, mentioning my dad, statements that may give them too much anxiety (sometimes difficult to discern), talking about coworker 1 too much in a negative way (even tho we both think coworker 1 is a removed)
Coworker 3 also has repeatedly told me that I can come to them with issues, but they always get upset if I say something too negative. They seem to occasionally ask me trick questions too like “are you ok?” even though I know I’m not supposed to answer truthfully. I don’t understand this behavior or how to deal with it.
Coworker 4 - talking too much in general about any topic (they would just prefer I shut up tbh unless there is zero work)
Yes, there is some overlap among them, but they still have a lot of differences that are difficult for me to discern.
I mean, I guess the “easiest” solution would to try to never talk again outside of any speech that is immediately necessary to do my job. Coworker 4 essentially does this. But it is tricky to do and a bit depressing. As a human (I think??), I am unfortunately a social creature. And it does get a bit frustrating that I can’t be authentically me.
Would appreciate some guidance. Sorry for the long post and thanks if you stuck around this far!
It’s called empathy. Their words and actions obviously have an effect on you, so it shouldn’t be surprising that the opposite is true as well. Reading people and their moods inform this and help you predict how they might react in the moment.
I suspect most of what you’re talking about is about timing. Taking a jovial mood and injecting serious topics without warning will piss people off. You’re killing the mood. “Don’t be so negative” sounds to me like you’re not reading the room. Let people enjoy those times. If you need to raise a serious subject with someone - a deft “now’s not the time, but I’d like to talk about something” allows them to finish up, switch gears, and then have a more serious discussion.
The same goes the other way. Injecting jokes in a serious discussion can cause problems too.
The whole thing is like merging into traffic. You have to match the pace of the traffic flow. Too fast or too slow causes pile-ups.
Your coworkers are not your therapists. If they say “are you ok?” you’re not required to answer them truthfully. You can just say “I’m fine, thanks” and then ask how they are doing or whatever. Be careful what you say to others in the workplace. It can be used against you. Your coworkers are not your friends. (Generally speaking. It can happen, of course. But you should still remain professional at work.) Some can actively be looking for any excuse to screw you over so they can get ahead in their job.
As for “think before you speak” I think of that as “think about what your response will be before saying it.” You don’t have to think while speaking. That shit can trip you up big time. Think of conversation as a round of tennis or ping pong. It’s just a back and forth.
And yes, in the workplace it’s a good idea to keep a lot of shit to yourself. Remember that they have their own stuff to deal with. Often people are just being polite when they ask you what’s wrong or whatever. They might just be catching bad vibes and are wanting to know it’s going to affect them. Or they’re drama llamas and want to soak it up or, again have ammo to use against you later.
You can be yourself at the workplace without spilling your guts out or making yourself vulnerable to everyone. You’ve already shared your solution: Often you should keep things to yourself and just talk about work-related things. Leave any political opinions at the door. Keep social interactions as shallow as possible if it’s not work related. Social stuff like food, the weather, what you saw on Netflix, etc. Shallow stuff that doesn’t offend anyone or expose your belly to them, etc.
Welcome to the adult working life of walking on eggshells. It is indeed taxing.
Learn to respect yourself and stop caring what others think. You’re there to work. Get shit done, quit wasting time worrying about other people’s feelings that are out of your control.
You’re thinking too much already. They might not even be reacting negatively to what you’re saying but you’re so insecure that you read into stuff that isn’t your fault. Or maybe you’re going too deep for work place conversations. Like talking about personal stuff that is not what most people wanna here. Honestly, based on what you posted, you are a weird guy that has weird thinking. It’s okay, no judgemental because I am too. But what I’ve found works with people is too just fit in with them. Don’t air your dirty laundry out too them and just talk about mainstream stuff. If it’s something you think might be what the average person isn’t into, just don’t talk about it.
Yes, they accuse me of “overthinking” things a lot in general. But they don’t realize that I have to do this in order to try to do things more correctly. Lack of enough thought is what gets me into these kinds of situations, you know?
I’m definitely not imagining most of these. If everyone is happily smiling and chatting away, and then I make a mistake which causes a sudden change in facial expression, curt response, and the sudden end of a flowing conversation, then it’s not my imagination.
Coworker 3 is the most lenient/forgiving of them, but issues still arise with them too.
Just don’t say anything I wouldn’t say. I wouldn’t care about leaving large gaps between subjects if you need to think beforehand, because it’ll take the focus away from the subject and onto “being in your own head”. If the pausing is after literally every sentence then it might be that the conversation just naturally isn’t going anywhere. (E.g. the other person doesn’t want to talk, there’s no conversational threads, no more information needs to be added, its just a statement that needs no reply.) But if its like this all the time everyday with everyone then maybe speak to a speech therapist (or someone who can help with speech impediments, or could get a referal from your doctor). Coworker 4 is an example of not letting they’re personal and professional lives intermix. I think that talking to your coworkers about your struggles all the time is emotionally draining even if you didn’t mean to, put yourself in their shoes, if someone would talk about their problems repeatedly to you, wouldn’t you get tired eventually? Not sure about coworker 3 asking “are you OK” because I don’t know their vibe from the post, it could be everything from: the standard “hello” “hi” interaction to “you seem like you want to talk” (but I lack context to understand if its a positive or negative vibe.)
No, I don’t currently pause between each sentence. Usually conversation flows quite smoothly. But it flows until I make a grave error and then it shuts down catastrophically. My question was saying “how can I think before I speak” because pausing after each sentence would be incredibly jarring and not work with conversational flow if that makes sense.
Coworker 3 has occasionally asked that out of genuine concern when I have been having a bad time. But it’s a trick question because I’m not supposed to respond that I am having a bad time. It is the incorrect response and will make them upset, even if they tell me that I can be honest. It’s very confusing because coworker 3 will occasionally tell me that it’s ok to come to them with things, but the reality is that isn’t true. If I do that, it makes them upset. So one of the biggest things is that I have worked to not tell coworker 3 when something is bothering me and not share feelings like this with them. But it is confusing when they do things that indicate that it’s ok and welcomed for me to do so when it isn’t. They say one thing but I am supposed to act in a way that is discordant with what they indicate, which is confusing.
And sometimes coworker 3 likes to discuss serious topics. So I sometimes accidentally say something about the topic with too much emotion in my voice or something or the wrong statement in general and then I fuck up the whole thing.
On thinking before you speak, it means this: if something is said that makes you want to respond right away, when you sense a physical reaction (of hurt, anger, sadness or wanting retribution), or you are in a situation where what you say matters a lot (an interview, a meeting with higher-ups in a company etc.), it’s a mental cue for you to block immediate responses which can cause you to run your mouth in ways you later regret. Instead, you actively make an effort to listen more, and consider your situation and the other people’s situation before responding. So it’s not a 15 second pause after each sentence, but a 15 seconds you take while the other person is going on about whatever before you inject yourself into a conversation or before you make your point when it’s your turn.
On interacting with your coworkers, they’re not your therapists, so you can talk about what’s new and the fortunate and unfortunate things that happen to you over the course of a week, but the basic idea is to avoid making your problems their problems when you do.
I’m of a more positive nature but I love to info-dump on my coworkers about my favourite topics. I try to offset that by involving them and asking their opinion, showing them cool things, and then taking the turn to let them discuss their own intersts and thoughts on things, and follow up with that. And I try to get a sense if they aren’t interested in talking at a particular moment or are losing interest in the middle of a conversation. EQ skills are about taking that pulse.
If you need a place to start: The idea is give and take, and it should be in relatively equal amounts. Would you be able to tell me what has been on the minds lately of Coworkers 1-3? Or have you spent most of the conversation about yourself and your issues? (#4 doesn’t sound interested much in sharing their personal life, so you don’t have to probe them on it).
This is an awesome response. When you think about it, a similar saying is “Read the room.” While not entirely 1:1, it’s a similar theme of employing empathy.
I always say that thinking before speaking is a bit like wiping before going number two.
Maybe that’s why I don’t have any friends.
Most people say ummm … uuuh … between words because they were too quick to answer and need to think. It’s a fine line though, which you need to develop over time for yourself. My boss makes very long pauses before he answers and looks kinda frozen while he thinks. It’s a bit confusing but I appreciate that he cares about what we are talking about.
Look up Charisma On Demand on Youtube, it might have some interesting topics for you. Just don’t try to forcefully apply everything. Everyone is a different character with their own quirks and that’s good.
The saying „Think before you speak“ I believe is not meant for during conversations specifically but for when you give your opinion on something and it’s based more on emotion than facts.
Think further before, don’t wait for the middle of a conversion. Run potential future conversations through in your mind before you even see these coworkers and decide in advance how you’ll respond to various topics so you don’t have to do it in the moment.
You can do this in front of a mirror to practice the body language you want to project, as well.
By chance, are you located in the Midwest? Or neurodivergent? Because Midwesterners really aren’t comfortable with most kinds of explicit negative emotional displays, and there are very specific ways to indicate negative emotions appropriately. And IME most NTs are distressed by the way NDs tend to express anxiety.
If I could sum up all of what I’ve said into one sentence, it’d be: Stop displaying anxiety to your coworkers.
Oh God…how can I possibly hope to think of every single permutation of conversation??? It sounds like I would be thinking about conversations indefinitely if I did that. Any tips???
No, I am not in the Midwest. I did have a therapist ask me once if I was neurodivergent and I said no. I don’t think I fall in line with anything like autism or anything like that. I do struggle with human interaction but everything else about me seems pretty “neurotypical”. Even in conversation, I actually am able to carry on normally and understand a lot of social cues, I think, as well as I have the ability for eye contact when I am not anxious. I struggle a bit with anxiety and told someone that I struggle sometimes to order food at places because of that. That person told me “that’s weird because you seem totally normal” in a non sarcastic way. It made me feel good actually lol and like I’m very normal passing haha.
Be less negative, don’t talk behind people’s backs, leave coworker 4 alone
like most things, conversation skill is mainly not a conscious thing. any skill a human is reasonably good at is done mostly by unconscious parts of brain, under only loose direction from your conscious mind. most things happen too quickly for deliberate conscious reasoning, which is rather slow. you can’t expect to create a set of rules to run through in your head while you converse. it is more like training a neural net, or an llm or something. you give it feedback, like when you make someone angry, you tell it ‘don’t do that’ (ideally just in the form of feeling bad) and eventually it learns. but it takes time.
The smartest people I’ve ever met pause for at least five seconds before answering direct questions. Some for much longer. There’s a Supreme Court justice who I’m told pauses for like 25 seconds or more anytime she’s asked a question.
I can be like this sometimes, but I normally try to let people know that the dogs are whirring.
- Hmm, good question…let me think…
- How can I put this?
- What’s the phrase I’m looking for?
I’ll especially do this if I’m speaking to people whose first language is something else, as I’ll want to answer the question without resorting to idioms or slang. No point telling a Frenchman that the situation is a bit of a dog and pony show.
I once had a boss like this and when he finally said something it was always “it depends”. I often wanted him to give a simple, quick, direct answer but I eventually realized things were more complicated than that. It reminded me of the Tolkien quote: “Go not to the Elves for counsel for they will answer both no and yes.”
Just think faster. No shit. Practice stakkato arguments with your friends.
“Coworker 4 - talking too much in general about any topic (they would just prefer I shut up tbh unless there is zero work)”
I am this person lol without knowing them at all I can say at least for this type of person I think the best thing to do is just be direct about work stuff, get to the point right away after the initial pleasantries of initiating the conversation. If they’re anything like me they might actually dislike conversation for similar reasons that you feel anxious. I just don’t have much to say other than strictly work related business and it stresses me out to be stuck in a “meaningless” conversation.
If coworker 1 really is “a bitch” then there isn’t all that much you can do, just treat her similar to coworker 4 and just accept that she might be judging you for stupid reasons. That’s more of a “her problem” than a you problem. As they say “you can’t make everyone like you.” but that doesn’t have to mean there’s anything “wrong” with you, some people just don’t mesh well.
Yeah with coworker 1 I try to interact minimally with. It works out ok. So I mostly talk to coworkers 2 and 3 but I still tuck up with them all the time.
Nah, coworker 4 isn’t anxious. She just wants us to work as quickly as possible so she can leave as quickly as possible. I don’t talk to her much either tbh. It can be a bit frustrating when she sometimes gets upset when I am chatting with a different coworker (because she wants me to shut up and not talk to anyone at all).
You’re descriptions kind of make your coworkers like NPCs. If you want to have better conversations you should probably get to know them better as people. That can allow you to understand the why of their particulars and eventually guide your conversations more organically.
I mean, forgive me for not explaining every detail of all of my coworkers lives in this thread. The post is already stupidly long and I was trying to get to the meat and potatoes of it for those that might be able to help.
I know some of them quite well and I am constantly learning new things about them. I can speak organically with most of them (except coworker 4), and often do so at length with coworkers 2 and 3. But my mistakes are still frequent enough and significant enough that it causes major problems. I am constantly learning what not do to, but there are seemingly infinite permutations of conversation and infinite ways things can and do go wrong, even when I find some of the patterns.
You don’t need to give explicit details of your coworkers’ lives, but from your writing it really seemed to me that you were more interested in mechanically optimizing conversation. This isn’t necessarily a bad perspective, but people already do that organically by understanding each other more and learning their history. The route of good conversation follows logically from there through empathy.
Well yeah so I kind of wrote the post in a detached manner because I am trying to mechanically optimize conversation. Doing things organically doesn’t work out for me even though my heart is in the right place and I just want to get along with people and for us to be happy.
I’m 30. People telling me that things will work out once you get to know people better do not at all understand that I have spent many many years doing this and yet I still fail horribly multiple times per week. I’m not some teen with a still developing brain. This is the way I am and I want to figure out how to improve and be more correct in my interactions. If it hasn’t organically happened in 30 years, it’s not going to organically happen now. So I need a different approach. Getting to know people and your heart being in the right place aren’t the magic solution for me.
I have just never been skilled in that manner. So I would like to try to break it down into a more logical way where I could actually work on it. All too often I get frustrated that no one has written a guidebook on every facet of human interaction.
