I’m a software engineer who sometimes interviews other software engineers. I’m not given a script to go off of, I get to ask them whatever I want. Usually we just talk about technology and coding from a high level. I’m not a big fan of whiteboard tests.

I’ve noticed, however, that a lot of people applying to software engineering jobs feel very alien to me. I started coding when I was 12 and spent most of my teenage years on technology forums. A lot of people applying to these positions are very much ladder-climbing type people who got into the career for the money. Working with these people is an absolute drag.

We also interview for “culture fit”. I would like to add in a single question to my interviews to assess that: what is your favorite science fiction book. You don’t even have to have read it recently, you just have to have read one and formed an opinion on it. My thoughts

Pros:

  • Weeds out a lot of people since half of Americans don’t read books at all.
  • Theoretically filters out people who love this kind of tech subculture from people who are just in it for the money

Cons:

  • It’s unfair to people who enjoy fantasy novels, or any other form of fiction
  • Being motivated by money probably shouldn’t be a disqualifying factor (I certainly wouldn’t do this job for free), I’m just tired of working with yuppies and lashing out at poor unsuspecting Jr Devs

I’m half-hearted on this. I see why it could be considered unfair but I’m really tired of the kinds of people I work with.

  • wirehead@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    My dad designed jet engines and nobody made him design a jet engine on the whiteboard. So you are starting from the right place.

    We are here where we are today because we spent too much time thinking that acting like the right kind of nerd meant you were a good programmer. There’s nothing wrong with going to a job, working hard, and then doing something else. I know very productive engineers who don’t have a favorite science fiction book who were great to work with.

    Given things lately, I think it’s healthy that a lot of people have had to take a step back and realize that their employer would totally harvest their organs for profit if they could get away with it. Providing people the right “tech subculture” cues has resulted in a lot of people working themselves to death and never seeing any income windfalls.

    I actively hate a bunch of my old science fiction books from when I was a kid because they were written with what is, to my adult mind, a not-very-subtle fascist bent. There’s, obviously, some great novels out there that expand your mind … but at the same time, there’s a lot of the science fiction canon where I’d probably hate working with people who took those books seriously.

    And, likewise, there’s a lot of people who simply don’t have time because they are smart people actually trying to get into the lucrative field of computer science and a good scifi novel reading session is a luxury they just don’t have.

    “Tell me about your favorite science fiction book” is pretty much a textbook case for how to have good intentions but conduct an interview that’s, when you step back and think about it some more, biased. It’s checking for subculture-fit in ways that have nothing to do with how they are at work.

    On the other hand, whiteboard tests are also useless.

    If you want to make a better interview, I’d suggest you have an interview guide. Not a manager? Just write your own for your interviews and keep to it. This protects you from unconsciously giving the person who looks the part easy questions.

    If you want to check for culture fit, talk about things at work that matter. Are you worried someone is going to talk down to a junior engineer? Make them talk about a time they had to mentor a junior engineer. Did they succeed? What did they do? Ask them about the best project manager or doc writer they worked with. Are you worried that they aren’t serious enough about getting shit done at work? Talk about the worst incident they ever were part of, but not the technical parts, just how they made sure it got fixed. Are you worried that they aren’t a good team player? Ask about their best collaborations. Or how they organized work on a large project. Or the time that they took one for the team. If you think through how the last crop of yuppies pissed you off for a while and break it down into questions that they’d not have a good answer to, you should be able to make a nice set of behavioral screening questions and a set of attributes that you want the person to display in their answers.

    • shortrounddev@lemmy.worldOP
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      10 months ago

      Here’s a twist to the question: what if the company created artistic products? For example, a game development studio? Would the fiction you read/watch/etc be more relevant to the job? Even for software engineers

  • wirelesswire@lemmy.zip
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    10 months ago

    I see what you’re getting at, but maybe broaden it to just their favorite book. I also certainly wouldn’t disqualify based on not having read books (sci-fi or otherwise), because maybe they read short stories online, or maybe comics or something similar.

  • MudMan@fedia.io
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    10 months ago

    No. What? No.

    Unless you publish sci-fi novels as a business, I suppose. Then maybe. But no.

    I don’t have anything against “culture fit”, but that means that if you think someone will make your life miserable by sharing a space for eight hours it’s okay to go with someone else. It’s not a blank check to audit people’s Spotify histories. Job interviews aren’t dates.

  • shani66@ani.social
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    10 months ago

    If you have the authority to try to make a good company culture; hell yes you should. Even if they don’t often read novels, or they read something other than sci-fi, it’ll help you understand their personality and weed out people who suck. If someone says they prefer reading sci-fi manga or playing fantasy ttrpgs or any other possible nerdy thing they are probably leagues better than a ladder climbing type.There are plenty of places for a soulless corpo to go work for, if you can keep them away from you and yours you’ll have a much better and healthier company and (more importantly) life in the long run.

    • shortrounddev@lemmy.worldOP
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      10 months ago

      Yeah but at the same time I feel like it’s kind of privileged to be able to work in tech because you love coding. I mean everybody should work in jobs they love but I’ve met a huge number of people who were making slave wages in other fields and moved to coding to make more money. Why should I punish that? Because I find their water cooler conversations to be boring? What if they’re the first person in their family to graduate college and they’re just trying to feed their family and are actually really good at coding, but their real passion in life is Football? I want to work in a workplace with people I would want to actually hang out with, but it seems petty to penalize people for not liking the same things as me and not having the advantage of a great salary to be able to turn their real passion into a career

      • AngryClosetMonkey@feddit.nl
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        10 months ago

        So you can ask them what they are passionate about outside of work. Something like:

        I’m really into reading sci-fi books. Is there anything you are passionate about outside your work?

        • shortrounddev@lemmy.worldOP
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          10 months ago

          That’s not exactly what I want to select for though. I guess leaving it open ended lets them convince me of the culture fit rather than just trying to check a box. Maybe they don’t give a shit about science fiction, but they’re really into science or art. That’s cool, too

  • maplehill@lemm.ee
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    10 months ago

    The fact that you even weighed the pros and cons of your proposal puts you light years ahead of most hiring managers.

    • shortrounddev@lemmy.worldOP
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      10 months ago

      Haha I’m afraid every time I interview someone. I know that I personally hate being asked whiteboard algorithm questions, and I don’t think they’re very useful either. When I interview people I ask them two main questions:

      1. What is your hottest take on coding? It can be controversial or not, it just has to be a strongly held opinion. For example, if you despise Windows, tell me why. If you are a zealot for Vim/Emacs, rant at me. If you think that dynamically typed languages are the worst thing ever, prove it.

      I don’t actually care about what their opinion is (though I think it’s good to hire people with a lot of intellectual diversity), I just want to see if they can extemporaneously rant about coding for 10-15mins

      1. What is a technology (an API, a cloud service, a programming language, a new kind of algorithm, etc.) that you are excited about and that you want to be able to use at work some day

      Again, the actual tech doesn’t matter too much to me, but this indicates that they read up on the latest goings-ons of the industry they’re in. I also think that it’s a good character trait to be someone who desperately searches for problems to apply a novel solution to. I don’t think it’s always a good idea to ACTUALLY create a solution looking for a problem, but I think it’s a good intellectual trait to have

  • tal@lemmy.today
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    10 months ago

    When I’ve interviewed candidates for software engineering positions, I have never asked any questions about them outside of work. I don’t personally feel that it has a lot of impact on how they perform at work.

  • KammicRelief@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    I’m often very much in the same boat as you. I’m the one in the team interview who afterwards is like “pleeease let’s go with person B, because person A just, y’know, … bad gut feeling?” And I wish I could ask more personal questions in the interview itself. However, I’ve been lightly warned (and subsequent web searches confirm this) that it’s a legal grey area to ask about personal stuff in interviews. If they bring it up, or maybe you drop an obscure ST:TNG reference and they pick up on it, by all means, they’re “one of us” so go for it. But on the flip side, you might hear something that, say if you don’t end up hiring them, could be grounds for a discrimination lawsuit.

  • RBWells@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    These are two separate questions. Is the person into sci fi and is the person an asshole because they think people in lower ranked positions are inferior as people.

    If you asked me my favorite sci fi and I said it was the Black Science comics, or Atomic Robo, is that a yes or a no? And how does it tell you whether I’m an asshole to people in junior positions? I work with a set of diverse people who are all pretty cool but I don’t think that most of them are, well, “like me” in a standard cultural sense. In fact I know they aren’t.

    I had a boss who would interview people with relevant questions but most of what he was looking for was people who were not afraid of him, lol. He was a very intense person and you had to be able to push back if you thought he was wrong.

    I think if you made it funny it might be ok, it is a question that would put me, personally, at ease, but how are these yuppies sneaking through your screening at all? It’s not evident in the interview?

    • shortrounddev@lemmy.worldOP
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      10 months ago

      If you asked me my favorite sci fi and I said it was the Black Science comics, or Atomic Robo, is that a yes or a no?

      It’s a yes, I’m not particular about the format/medium. Same with my other interview questions, the answers don’t matter so much as the fact that you CAN answer the question

      how are these yuppies sneaking through your screening at all? It’s not evident in the interview?

      It’s not exactly a criteria for the interview. Plus I’m not the only one interviewing. yuppies attract yuppies

      • RBWells@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        I think it’s an ok question, just tell them there’s no wrong answer. Sometimes people say “culture fit” as some kind of code for discrimination, but I don’t think that taste in music or books is a protected category, lol. I am just not sure it’s going to work to do what you want. Some of the guys are work who come ooh and ah over my geeky cube decor are nice and some are assholes, there doesn’t seem to be a correlation and some of my favorite people at work are so different from me if spun on that axis, like they drink wine and go see romantic comedy or football games, or reality TV (blech) but are so great to work with.

        It is absolutely ok to try to build a good team that can work together. That makes a better working environment for sure. I hope you can influence the selection process, you do sound like a good boss.

  • A@91268476.xyz
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    10 months ago

    @[email protected] looks like you want to promote a mono culture? a lot of brilliant people I work with don’t read scifi, or anything like that. It is still a pleasure to work with them.

    Also, working for money is exactly what we all do, it is great to do what you want but some people just care abour their paycheck and that is fine.

    Finally, IANAL, but I suspect it could be a discriminatory practice to select people who like things that you like.

    • shortrounddev@lemmy.worldOP
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      10 months ago

      I think we already live in a monoculture in the tech industry. I think having some kind of cultural similarity is important for organizational cohesion. I think empathy helps

      • A@91268476.xyz
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        10 months ago

        @[email protected] the tech industry is kind of big, but if you think so 🤷‍♂️ then you wouldn’t have those “weird” candidates would you? I just think mono cultures are toxic, but good luck with your candidates

  • jordanlund@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    I interviewed for a gig that explocitly stated “Must have a strong preference for Marvel over D.C.” Got the job, been on it going on 14 years now.

  • Suck_on_my_Presence@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    As others have commented, it could be a discriminatory thing you’re stepping yourself into.

    For example, what about dyslexics, or those with ADHD who can’t focus on books but enjoy coding or other sci fi media?

    You do you, ultimately, but using that as a qualifying factor when hiring feels like a slippery slope.

  • bluGill@fedia.io
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    10 months ago

    That question is likely illegal to ask. Only ask questions relevant to your job. Culture fit is will your form a book club together, it is can you work with this person and then go home. If you are regularly doing such social activities with everyone you work with outside of work hours you need to get a life. (it is okay to make friends with people you work with, but that isn’t a goal.)

      • Bob Robertson IX @discuss.tchncs.de
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        10 months ago

        You should generally only ask questions that relate directly to the job. If you start asking unrelated questions then the applicant could feel that you are discriminating against them for some reason. But I get the desire to give someone who is a good fit, but you should find a more subtle way.

        I’m in IT and I like to ask applicants if they have any systems at home that they manage. One guy told me how he went on craigslist and purchased an old server to play around with VMware when the company he was with first started looking into it. That impressed me because it’s something I’d do. He was a top contender, so I sent him home with some homework: I asked to see an example of some documentation that he’s written up. The next day he sent me a detailed diagram and full documentation of his home torrent system, how he has Plex, Sonarr and Radarr setup, and how his drives are laid out. I found a new best friend that day.

  • Hossenfeffer@feddit.uk
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    10 months ago

    This seems terrible.

    • Weeds out a lot of people since half of Americans don’t read books at all.

    Is that always a good thing? What about people who don’t read much but listen to audiobooks and go to the theatre a lot?

    • Theoretically filters out people who love this kind of tech subculture from people who are just in it for the money

    One of the best programmers I ever worked with was ‘in it for the money’. He was what Goldman Sachs used to call ‘long term greedy’ though which meant he had an eye on the success of the project above and beyond his own responsibilities and his own code. That’s why he was one of the best programmers.

    • Count Regal Inkwell@pawb.social
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      10 months ago

      listen to audiobooks

      Listening to an audiobook is reading unless you’re really fucking pedantic. (and in that case, you shouldn’t be taken seriously)

      The content of an audiobook of, idk, name a story you enjoy, is exactly the same as the content of the paperback or ebook. Unless the book is like. Really avant-garde, the likes of House of Leaves. But let’s face it – Most literature ain’t like that.

      • elephantium@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        really fucking pedantic

        I guess I am. Reading is reading. Listening is listening. I’m not a fan of “reading means reading or listening, depending on whether the thing you’re listening to is labeled ‘audiobook’”.

        Communication is easier when we agree on what the words actually mean.

  • untorquer@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    I think you could get the same info from opinions on movies.

    Interest in coding doesn’t necessarily imply an interest in science fiction either.

    The ladder climbing type are easy to route out, just ask them if/how they engage in synergy outside of work.

  • YonderEpochs@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    I like to ask candidates to tell me about a design pattern, or a framework, or a coding principle that they really appreciate and which changed how they think about or write code. It’s an open-ended way to show me they care about the craft.

    People who find the field interesting and somewhat fun (AKA not just lucrative) usually have these kinds of preferences or paradigm-shifting moments / learnings. People who can’t come up with anything for this question tend to be real junior or just in it for the wrong reasons. Or so I tell myself, anyway.

    • shortrounddev@lemmy.worldOP
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      10 months ago

      I think it’s better to get an intuitive/human understanding of an applicant rather than making them take an SAT of Javascript questions. Above all, I value flexibility and the ability to learn new things. A lot of the people I don’t want to work with kind of just learned react at a bootcamp and that’s all they know how to do