cross-posted from: https://hilariouschaos.com/post/1077711
Edit: https://chapo.chat/ for the live action drama, sort by new posts.
Edit edit: https://chapo.chat/post/4468531
Welp
They don’t care, mission was accomplished in November of last year.
They were established 4+ years ago just to cause the dnc to lose an election in 2024?
Yes, are you unaware of how Russian propaganda works?
I do but that’s quite the stretch when they’re usually going for right wing propagandists
There are definitely far left groups, primarily in Europe, that ally with Russia. All groups on the fringes have proven useful for spreading pro-Russian propaganda. In the US, Trump’s pro-Russian sympathies and general stupifaction of the GOP has led to the GOP becoming an ally to the Kremlin. But prior to that, both parties were anti-Russia with Republicans being moreso.
Old Soviet/Russian doctrine is to always play both (or all) sides of a conflict
What I see from hexbear trolls is an attempt to usurp leftism and turn it into something very weird. They came hard for Biden and Kamala, but don’t really say anything negative about Trump. They talk about “libs” as though the word hasn’t changed which group it refers to over the course of the last century.
It is quite clear to me that they do this to advance Russian interests and global fascism. They will, of course, deny it, but they are simply manipulators.
They constantly shit on trump.
Now I wonder what you think leftism is
They were established 4+ years ago just to cause the dnc to lose an election in 2024?
The DNC did not lose. We are the losers. You and me will feel the impact way more than well to do politicians.
And they’re certainly showing that by their reaction to the election and people asking them to do anything
This is IMO a risk for many individual owned fediverse instance. Someone has a domain, at a point other admin take over, and the domain owner doesn’t renew no matter whether they forget because real life happens or due to some Drama.
Very few instances have a clear legal organizational (like a non profit club) running, which is more flexible when founders step out
Yeah this does prove a failing point for the fediverse that is an important part of larger adoption. This still mostly exists in large part by communal effort even if the community doesn’t appreciate it or recognize it
I need a reminder of what hexbear is about. I recall something… off.
They’re part of the Tankie Triad (.ml, lemmygrad, hexbear). Quite possibly the worst of the triad
Beyond just the general tankiness that others have mentioned, I think the worst thing about Hexbear is how they aggressively claim to be pro-LGBTQ+ while zealously supporting Russia and China, nations which actively persecute anyone who is not hetero-normative. Putin actively jokes about killing homosexuals, and the PRC will black-bag you and put you in a reeducation camp.
I’ve always felt there was something deeply sinister in this hypocrisy, probably having to do with intentionally targeting marginalized people and attempting to influence and/or radicalize them - your basic cult recruitment tactics.
Tankie instance
quite vocal about how the world should be organized, but forgot to pay the domain dues
In a good internet, you shouldn’t have to pay someone else for your own identity.
You don’t have to pay anything to have your own identity.
If you want someone else’s servers to replicate a piece of information for you, and you want them to take responsibility for administrative issues like figuring out whether you still want it next year or what to do if you’re doing something illegal, you may have to pay anywhere from $5 a year to $30 a year for the privilege depending on a couple of factors. Given how massively inflated the price of registering a domain could be, if the type of ghouls who like to get their hands on things like this were able to get their hands on it, I’m inclined to call that success. About 99% of internet users will never need to know or care about DNS, and they can still have their identity without having to pay $30 a year.
I’m pretty sure the price of domains has actually been going down over time, and they’ve introduced a bunch of new TLDs and new types of entries in the records in response to pretty much the only significant problems that the 40-year-old system has ever had during its history. Like I said, I’d call that success.
If you want someone else’s servers to replicate a piece of information for you, and you want them to take responsibility for administrative issues like figuring out whether you still want it next year or what to do if you’re doing something illegal
I would like none of these services. I would simply like my domain name to be mapped to my server’s IP. I don’t want to have to pay a registrar, I would like to submit my domains to registers directly. There is a business layer of middle-men who do not need to exist.
I mean, it is kind of getting that way. The proliferation of some domains that are more expensive than others could potentially be a sign of the whole thing slowly collapsing into costing $10/month or maybe orders of magnitude more, if you are a big company with fat pockets that can be rummaged through, like everything else is nowadays. My point is that the price is $12 per year specifically because those forces have been kept at bay, at least partially, which means the system is an ever-more-incongruous-with-every-passing-year vestige of the decent way that the internet used to be. And also, yes, there’s an increasing cacophony of services which are trying to charge you more than it should cost, hoping that you’ll think $50/year is reasonable and just pay it not knowing any better.
If you think it is sustainable to be able to submit registrations completely for free, though, you are welcome to provide that service to the world under some subdomain, and do a vital service to remove the evil of which you speak. Just register dns.free or whatever, and set up a thing where people can register mysite.dns.free or whatever subdomain they want, and then they can all have it for free. You can be the change. I suspect that it you undertook this mission, it would quickly become apparent to you why the system as a whole still needs to charge a tiny nominal fee in exchange for doing it.
Running the central DNS servers is so cheap that it makes no sense to try to charge for it. Doing the administrative work of keeping track of hundreds of millions of people who all want to register some appellation for themselves, and keeping track of all the changes thereto, is significant, which is why that side of the operation wants to charge you a few bucks a year for it.
I don’t want to have to pay a registrar, I would like to submit my domains to registers directly. There is a business layer of middle-men who do not need to exist.
You’re in luck! You can do this! You can become your own registrar. Cut out the middle man! You only have to pay $4000/year to talk directly to ICANN.
There is a business layer of middle-men who do not need to exist.
ICANN is in the business of running the Internet, not fielding tech support calls from Jones’ BBQ and Foot Massage. I’m fine with this layer of separation. Hell, if it was one massive company controlling all the domains worldwide, wouldn’t that monopoly be an order of magnitude worse?
I don’t mean interacting directly with ICANN. I mean directly interacting with registries, like Verisign.
They control the .com top level domain. They do not interact with consumers, and require you to use a third-layer of registrars to interface with them.
ICANN shouldn’t get into the direct-to-consumer business, that is true and not the issue I am speaking about.
You don’t have to! You can run a DNS server out of your house and host any and all domain names you can think of!
Of course, nobody but you will use it, but it’s the principle of the thing, right?
Tell me you have no idea how DNS works without saying you have no idea how DNS works.
Remember kids, this is why you still need money. This is literally how the Soviet Union collapsed and why China today became a state capitalist.
I mean unlike housing, you don’t actually need to pay for a domain name. There are plenty of free alternatives if you ill like paying for a TLD, and in lieu of that you could just memorise the IP, or even instruct people to change their hosts file.
If I didn’t know this was chapotraphouse I would consider it an excellent shitpost.
I like how a whole community of academics and researchers worked out how to run a system which, even into the modern day which is kind of amazing, is largely disconnected from being abused by government and industry, and just runs according to what the people who need to use the system need it to do. You can get extorted for a fancy domain name if you really want to, but you can also go to Hostinger and get one for $5/year or something, because a lot of the core of the system is still pretty well-protected from being a cash-grab, through application of good governance and cooperation.
And then, somehow Hexbear managed to find their way around that system and fucked things up for themselves, and now it’s all DNS’s fault that they stepped in a pile of doo doo.
Never forget the architects of the internet were some of the vilest US MIC and Silicon Valley ghouls who ever lived and they are still in control fundamentally no matter how much ICANN and IANA claim to be non-partison, neutral, non-political, accountable, democratic, international, stewardshipismists
Yes, John Postel and David Mills were some of the vilest ghouls and so on. There was nothing about them that could provide a good model for how to do effective cooperation and succeed outside the systems of ownership that defined computing and telecommunications at the time, no particular reason they succeeded so dramatically and gave you, ultimately, this space to post pig balls today, and nothing about their work and traditions that needs to be defended against any silicon valley ghouls in the modern day. You fucking dingbat. I started out sticking up for you guys because no one deserves to get victimized by DNS scammers, but I take it back, go fuck yourselves.
Well, Postel has been dead since 1998 and Mills since 2010, so I don’t think they’re included in people still in control. So they’ve got that going for them, which is nice, I guess.
Architects of the internet, they said.
If they said the people currently in charge of the internet are an uneasy alliance of shadowy goons and idiots, afraid to openly break anything too irrevocably but occasionally trying to yank on the wires to see if there isn’t some way a little more money inside them somewhere, I would generally agree.
What is with the weirdly shaped emojis.
Over on the linked page? They’ve got custom “emojis”, which are just pictures uploaded by an admin. Lemmy has that feature in general, but it’s not used much on other instances. If it’s enabled on your instance, you can type
:to select from all regular emojis plus custom ones.I know, but why are they so big.
I mean… OK then just remember the IP addresses of the sites you use and don’t use the domain names?
That will be a problem for sites that are all hosted on one IP address where the server figures out what site you want by the client’s request string.
Well then you just take whatever you get, it’s website roulette.
Is this not a majority of them
My home stuff is like this
Thats because of how you set it up. If you want individual IP addresses for all your resources, you can get a huge chunk of IPv6 addresses just for yourself. You can get a /48 (65,536) addresses if you set it up with your ISP.
Yeah totally, it’s just wrong to say it’s not the majority of them.
It is.
Of course there are alternatives if you give up using the host header, like routing by URL. But that’s difficult when the URL is encrypted, meaning SSL has to be terminated at the proxy.
You do have a point there [email protected]
See? If you don’t like DNS, you don’t have to use DNS, it’s not so hard.
And IPv6 won’t be that much harder, it’s only… uh… 32 hex digits you’ll have to remember, for each website. No big deal.
Yes, only 0000:0000:0000:0000:0000:ffff:2e04:fe90. Simple!
Well, then someone would just create a directory that associates each ipv6 with the name of the company using it, so you can search for the easy to remember, human readable name which automa-
Oh I see what happened here.
Did you know we have these things called computer files that can store information. There’s even one in your router specifically for storing IP addresses
Ahh! The files are in the router!l
Queue jumping up and down like a monkey trying to rip apart my router in order to reach a website
Ah, you’re right, I should just look up IP addresses in my NAT table. Maybe I should add comments to it so I know which IP is which.
yep literally this. don’t most routers nowadays have a dns server with a hosts file you can edit?
30 years ago we had to remember phone numbers, now ip addresses. We are going in circles.
Your perspective makes you believe we’re going in circles. In actuality, we’re going down the drain…
I wonder if they tried to pay it with a signed note by their mother and a chuck-e-cheeze token with ‘payment in full’ scribbled across the note in red marker.
It’s (un)amusing how the Fediverse of all things still depends on a system of identity that relies on forcing trust on a third party that can take that identity from you at any point and without recourse (within that system). Or, you know, you can “forget to drink your internet identity verification can for the commercial god”, which is just as (un)funny.
Digital trust is a really complicated thing. DNS sure beats most of the alternative I can think of.
Heartbreaking: The Worst Capitalist Practice You Know Just Accidentally Picked A Funny Target
… if DNS is the worst capitalist practice you know of then you REALLY should spend less time shitposting and more time paying attention to the world.
(It’s a joke/reference, I guess it’s not 100% known though. My bad.)
I really do hate “I know what I have so you are going to pay whatever number I set” capitalism though, which is what they do here. These registrars figured out a loophole around the redemption grace period and are, from the start, set up to make you lose the domain and then spend significant money on a completely unfair auction where they have the power to plant fake bids, rather than paying the usual static redemption fees that aren’t that excessive.
Yes… but the meme doesn’t work if said practice is barely on the scale.
Because yeah, there are some REALLY sketchy registrars. Working with the “reputable” ones and now taking advantage of a nation’s country code for the lulz (see: .ml) keeps you pretty safe.
Could not happen to a nicer bunch.
Truly salt of the earth
The common clay of the fediverse.
What’s the story with this place?
cunts, tale as old as time
they were originally refugees from the reddit ban of r/chapotraphouse (which, while cringy, was not nearly as bad as r/the_donald that got banned in the same wave. but the reddit admins had a thing for being “fair and balanced”)
I’m not familiar with the first subreddit, what was that about?
Hex, .ml and grad are part of the Tankie Triad. Tankies are authoritarians and often hard to tell apart from far right nutjobs
Oh right. When I first heard about Lemmy, I tried to join .ml because it was the first instance I was made aware of. I think it was being rate limited at the time due to that whole reddit exodus thing, and I wasn’t able to get through, but. .world let me sign up so here I am.
I’d like to think that members of a given instance have their own opinions. It’s sad to hear about how territorial lemmy is.
It’s sad to hear about how territorial lemmy is.
Not really territorial, more… despises authoritarianism in all its forms lol.
While I’m sure there are plenty of non-tankie .ml users, the problem is with the admins and mods being the biggest Tankies around who enforce the “Tankie ideology” throughout.
Go checkout .ml memes, anything posted that’s Tankie-like will even sometimes get tons of downvotes as the post gets federated to non-Tankie instances but never removed.
Conversely, anything posted that’s even slightly critical of China/Russia is quickly removed under the catch-all “Rule 1 bigotry” (You’ll have to check the modlog for that)
It was by the largest (by a fair margin) socialist-aligned subreddit, but in practice it was like 60% shitposts. Was originally associated with the eponymous podcast, but the hosts have repeatedly said they disliked it.
When I accidentally interacted with one of their communities, it basically felt like a tankie 4chan. After that I just banned the entire instance.
Lemmy, in general, is left leaning with the lead dev and “main” instance being unabashedly tankies.
Hexbear is the big instance of people who are so fucked they tend to get banned even from there. The ml crowd is generally still worth talking to. Whereas the hexbear crowd immediately jump to harassment the moment they decide you failed a purity test because you advocated for a social program rather than insisting the entire system needs to be burned down and a managed economy run by putin put in its place.
Needless to say: Anyone who spends enough time “on lemmy” is either on an instance that banned hexbear or muted them themselves.
Appreciate the explanation. I’ve seen some remarks about the instance on passing, I’ve just never paid close enough attention to how communities have interacted with each other in the past.
Hexbear is the big instance of people who are so fucked they tend to get banned even from there.
No, no. They’re a group of posters so awful they got banned from Reddit.
And let’s be honest, you can be pretty much the worst person on earth and survive in your own little bubble on Reddit, but, for whatever reason, they couldn’t.
Yeah…
Spend some time in the “I hate reddit and am glad I am never going back but do you think reddit still thinks about me and hey, can I take a picture of your penis and send it to show reddit that my new boyfriend is massive?” communities. LOTS of the folk around here have those “I was banned for absolutely nothing” mentalities.
And it shows with how fast people are to “clown on” folk with just blatant insults.
Those folk aren’t at all exclusive to hexbear.
I feel attacked lmao, reddit automoda/policy is abusive now, I commented on a front page post with an alt and it permbanned 3 of my 10 year old accounts instantly no appeal. I kinda do like that they forced me to give lemmy a second look.
The mods just ban ppl willy nilly, how am i supposed to keep track of what banned me, if they have detection tools they should be able to auto ban my alts or hide those subs from my view or better yet not even let me comment on them, instead they asssume evasion and perm ban your ip.
Oh, maybe I wasn’t clear: this isn’t the usual mods doing mods, they were such bad posters the admins banned their entire sub.
Getting banned from a subreddit is easy, getting the admins to kick you, your friends, and your community off the site requires exquisite and well-developed shitposting skills beyond those of most mortals.
And here I was complaining about cheeseburger.social going down. Our user count was well into the dozens. Dozens!
Insert oh-no-well-anyway meme here.
Oh it couldn’t have happened to a better bunch! 😈
lol
This is amusing, but one guy from the crosspost raised a valid problem:
If the hexbear domain fully dies, then all the idiots kept in containment by defederation will start jumping ship to other instances, and start causing trouble for users and moderators.So the tankie idiots join the bigger pool of non-tankie idiots. How will we ever survive…
all the idiots kept in containment by defederation will start jumping ship to other instances, and start causing trouble for users and moderators
Many of them already do that with alt accounts, which would explain the considerable number of downvotes here.
They followed me around and down voted everything I posted for a while (memes, conversational comments, everything). Oh and they also threatened to kill me. Fuck hexbear and all its users.
I had a Hexbear account, but I once posted something that got 10+ upvotes, then someone came along and read something into it that wasn’t there at all and made an unfounded accusation.
I pushed back as gently as I could, got dogpiled, then the mods removed my comments. So I deleted the rest of my comments and posts along with my account.
They like to complain about how their bad reputation is undeserved, and then refuse to look in the mirror because they’re always right.
Fuck hexbear and all its users.
I feel the same way that you do.
Right. I don’t mind people wearing certain red hats. It lets me know right up front what to expect. Reddit had the same dilemma once upon a time where specific subs were banned, and that just forced the roaches to hide in unknown areas where once you knew exactly where to find them all.
Meh, they’re just going to flood over into grad and .ml where they’ll be welcomed with open arms.
Then all those “.ml’s not that bad, they’re kinda nice” folks will see that .ml mask drop and then finally .world will defed from the last of the Tankie
TriadDyadI’ll take it. It’s easy enough to tag people when I see them unironically spewing russian propaganda or bringing up American atrocities to justify Chinese ones.
In my experience these “containment” boards/servers/sections tend not to work.
Long term it basically just creates a place that attracts those you don’t want, and becomes place for those ideologies to spread. Then it either gets bad enough they take over (you know the site) or they break off wholesale and form a new community dedicated to those worst impulses (pyrrhic victory at best).
The best policy is to actively moderate, and in the case of the fediverse, defederate, those groups and those that give them shelter.
I have a more optimistic outlook. If they get spread out there’s a higher chance of them getting out of their echo chamber and becoming a normal person. And let’s be real, the worst of them will go into Lemmygrad to continue their circlejerk and thus won’t bother the wider fediverse. And the worst of them probably already have alts on other instances where they stir up shit.
Tired: Lenin’s on sale again
Wired: Hexbear is a shitcoin
