Immutable, doesn’t mean extreme secure. It’s a false sense of security.
It could be more secure.
But during a runtime, it is possible to overwrite operational memory, mask some syscalls, etc.

That’s my 3 cents.

I remain interested in the immutables or atomic distros because I know a lot of smart people that swear by them.

I also don’t try them just yet because I know a lot of dumb people like me that end up breaking a lot of stuff before quitting them altogether.

They could be amazing and just not perfected yet or they may be a meme and no one’s proved it outright just yet. Will be lurking this thread either way lool :D

So, you’re saying that immutable is terrible for system uptime.

Could you share some pics (without anything private ofc) of bazzite? I wanted to try it but I couldn’t use it as live distro. My main problem is arch because I’m used to apt and I find pacman or whatever it uses difficult for me (nothing I can’t learn ofc)

I love the idea of getting a fresh image for every update

What do you mean? Thanks

• You can still apply updates live, e.g. on Bazzite (Fedora Atomic) with the --apply-live tag (or however it’s spelled).
• The root partition isn’t read only per se, but you have to change it from upstream image instead of the one right now. You can use the uBlue-Builder for example to make your own custom Bazzite spin just for you if you want.
• Both aren’t inherently secure or insecure. It’s harder to brick your system, yeah, for sure, but you can still fuck up some partitions or get malware. It’s just better because everything is documented, saved, containerised and reproducible.
• And you can still install system software, e.g. by layering it via rpm-ostree. Or use rootful containers in Distrobox and keep using apt in there.

N I x o s

I really appreciate rarely seeing the message “update complete, please reboot now”. I would consider myself on the tech savvy side though.

I’m using Bluefin and overall it’s great. However, there are some unique issues due to immutability and flatpak.

1. It’s more difficult to utilize a NAS. For example, on something like Mint, I can open Proton Drive on Firefox, and I can upload files from my NAS to PD.

On Bluefin, I can access my NAS and all files using the Files app, but not using I cannot accomplish the above task in the same way. Firefox cannot fully access my NAS, and I have not figured out how to make it work. I’ve played around with Flatseal, but can’t get it to work. Instead, I need to use Files to download the files from my NAS to a local folder, and then I can use Firefox to upload to PD from that local folder. I’m guessing there is a better way, but I haven’t figured it out yet.

2. I would desperately like to use a screenshot tool with built-in annotations, but I haven’t found a flatpak that works. As I understand, it might have something to do with Wayland and/or my Nvidia GPU.

So while most things “just work,” there are some problems. Planning to stick with it and keep learning. I do love the concept and I’m overall very happy with the everything.

I have investigated the idea and came to the conclusion that immutable distros are essentially a research project. They attempt to advance the state-of-art a slight bit but the cost is currently too great.

Perhaps somebody will some day create something that’s worth switching to. But I don’t think that has happened yet, or is happening with any of the current distros. Silverblue might become that with enough polish, but I feel that to get that amount of polish, they would have to make Silverblue the 1st class citizen, i.e. the default install of Fedora.

is nixos considered immutable or mutable? kind of has characteristics of both.

what does the community think of it?

It’s important to note how the Linux community interacts with change. In the past, whenever a change has been significant enough to influence individual workflows, it often provoked strong reactions. This was evident when systemd was introduced and adopted by distros like Arch and Debian. Even though systemd was arguably superior in essential aspects for most users, it failed to meet the needs of at least a vocal minority. Consequently, community endeavors were set up to enable the use of Debian or Arch without systemd.

Similarly, the introduction of immutable distributions seems to upset some people, though (at least to me) it’s unjustified. Immutable distributions don’t necessarily alter the traditional model. For instance, the existence of Fedora Silverblue doesn’t impose changes on traditional Fedora; let alone Arch or Debian.

But, overall, most Linux users aren’t bothered by it. Though, they often don’t see a use for themselves. Personally, I attribute this at least in part to existing misconceptions and misinformation on the subject matter. Though, still, a minority^[1] (at best ~10%) actually prefers and uses ‘immutable’ distros.

Do the downsides outweigh the benefits or vice versa?

Depends entirely on what you want out of your system. For me, they absolutely do. But it’s important to note that the most important thing they impose on the user is the paradigm shift that comes with going ‘immutable’. And this is actually what traditional Linux users are most bothered by. But if you’re unfamiliar with Linux conventions, then you probably won’t even notice.

As a side note, it’s perhaps important to note that the similarities between traditional distros are greater than the similarities between immutable distros. Also, Fedora Atomic is much more like traditional Fedora than it is similar to, say, openSUSE Aeon or Vanilla OS. Grouping them together as if they are a cohesive group with very similar attributes is misleading. Of course, they share a few traits, but overall, the differences are far more pronounced.

Therefore, it is a false dichotomy to simply label them as traditional distros versus immutable distros. Beyond these names, which we have assigned to them, these labels don’t actually adequately explain how these systems work, how they interact, how their immutability is achieved (if at all), what underlying technologies they use, or how they manage user interactions. The implications of the above. Etc.

Could this help Linux reach more mainstream audiences?

The success of the Steam Deck and its SteamOS are the most striking and clear proof of this. So, yes. Absolutely.

1. Not accounting SteamOS users.

Since the idea is that the “root partition” is immutable, serious question:

How do you fix a hardware config issue or a distro packaging / provision issue in an immutable distro?

Several times in my Linux history I’ve found that, for example, I need to remove package-provided files from the ALSA files in /usr/share/alsa in order for the setup to work with my particular chipset (which has a hardware bug). Other times, I’ve found that even if I set up a custom .XCompose file in my $HOME, some applications insist on reading the Compose files in /usr/share/X11/locale instead, which means I need to be able to edit or remove those files. In order to add custom themes, I need to be able to add them to /usr/share/{icons,themes}, since replicating those themes for each $HOME in the system is a notorious waste of space and not all applications seem to respect /usr/local/share. Etc.

Unless I’m mistaken on how immutable systems work, I’m not sure immutable systems are really useful to someone who actually wants to or needs to power user Linux, or customize past the “branding locking” that environments like Gnome have been aiming for for like a decade.

I think they’re great. I’ve got two Linux newbies running some Ublue variant with no issues

Appimages, flatpaks, snaps

Former OS security guy. Fuck no. Nope nope nope nope.

I switched to silver blue after a bad update and my experience has been almost identical if not smoother than standard fedora