I’m getting sick every day at this Microsoft Windows slowness and bloat. I am trying to use as much Linux VMs as possible. I feel so unproductive on Windows. I also tried installing Linux on the office laptop. The problem is that Windows is officialy supported and the Linux is DYI. Once the IT departament changes it will sync up with Windows but Linux can be broken and you are no longer able to work. Next job I want to have full Linux laptop or at least Mac.
Besides:
- Microsoft Office
- Active Directory
- Some proxy and VPN bullshit
Everything seems manageable and even better on Linux.
What is your experience?
Most places seem to issue Mac’s now for the role. I just create a 90% cpu & memory Linux VM on them and work from within that, with the exception of teams or zoom meetings being native on the Mac (no echo cancellation on linux VM’s, it seems). Works mostly well, but it is arm64 based linux, as the Mac’s currently are M series.
Ended up going with Arch for arm64, as it had the simplest way to add widevine support to my browsers.
Much better than being native on the Mac… Mac doesn’t give me the two select&paste linux 2nd copy buffer, doesn’t provide focus follows mouse, no auto-raise, and type in partially covered windows without raise. Essential for my workflow.
Well… i am feeling somewhat heretical writing this… but i am a happy ChromeOS user for years now. In my opinion its a very good middle ground between a super stable platform that JUST WORKS and with the integrated Linux VM i have the opportunity to Install the necessary tools for my work.
Interesting… But you use it at work and it is allowed?
Yup, i use it for work and its not only allowed, but the company is at the moment evaluating if it would be feasible to move all our clients to ChromeOS(-Flex).
I understand the general sentiment regarding Google, and it is somewhat earned, but if you compare Windows and ChromeOS (or the whole Google ecosystem) then its interesting to note that Google is (at least in my opinion) much, much more user friendly than Microsoft. No dark patterns, hassle free updates… it surely has its upsides.
My current is being absorbed into a much larger company right now, got bought out earlier this year.
I was the only IT for the smaller company, and I was using 100% Linux (Debian with KDE Plasma) on my laptop to administrate everything in our environment, which is mostly Windows.
- Our DC with AD on it, I used Remmina to RDP into it for admin tasks.
- O365 and Azure/Entra stuff was all in the browser.
- Our ERP system is cloud-based, so browser was fine for that too.
- Our access control system was cloud-based and the RFID card reader/writer was plug-n-play on Linux.
- Our company SMB share worked fine with Linux in Plasma using my AD credentials.
- I set up my company OneDrive sync using rclone, it also worked flawlessly.
- Our Fortigate firewall VPN has a native Linux app which, although ugly as sin, works without issue.
- I used OnlyOffice for a while, then switched back to LibreOffice. Both worked basically perfect, a few very minor font bugs, (bullet lists having a slightly different style for the bullets, etc.)
- Teams, I used a wrapper flatpak for a while, which worked fine, then switched to the browser version of Teams. No major issues, I had a bunch of meetings, screen shares, webcam, presentations all on Teams in Linux, pretty seamless.
- Email, Outlook in the browser is fine. I also used Thunderbird for a bit, but didn’t like how buggy it was in the Flatpak version, and the Debian package was way too out of date for my taste.
Now that we got bought out, I am being forced off my Linux laptop and onto the new company’s Windows laptop, which really sucks. I am planning on quitting soon, as I hate using Windows and I am very underpaid at my current job as it is. Only real perk was not having to report to any IT manager/CTO, and being able to use Linux.
MacOS, nearly everyone who does anything with development or ops is using a MacBook. Though lately more “normal” employees have been getting MacBooks too.
At least they have some kind of choice…
We have some client’s engineers who use MacBooks. I’ll just say that I’m wary of anyone technical using MacOS at this point.
Though some of our devs use them too, but from what I’ve seen, they could just as well use Linux.
Wary why? I work remotely in IT and manage a ton of Linux systems with it. Because my company has a large number of remote employees they limit us to Windows or Macs only, and have pretty robust MDM, security, etc. installed on them. Since MacOS is built on top of a unix kernel it’s much more intuitive to manage other unix & linux systems with it.
Personally I haven’t used Windows really since before Windows 10 came out, and as the family tech support department I managed to switch my wife, parents, brother, and mother in-law all to Mac’s years ago as well.
I’ve met some folks who’d use an Apple laptop as part of their general attempt to look more competent than they actually were, for managers and such. Or maybe just for their ego.
If your choice is between Windows and MacOS - I dunno. Depends on how AuDHD-tolerant one can make MacOS. What I usually see doesn’t inspire confidence.
This is very anecdotal, but both myself and the vast majority of my peers use macOS as their base host system. I work in cybersecurity, specifically offensive penetration testing. Myself, most of my coworkers, and probably half of my peers I’m competing against at local conference CTFs or that I know at local meetups are using a MacBook host with VMs spun up to need.
Something like 75% of my job is done in a Linux VM. Doing it on a MacBook is infinitely more pleasant than any other laptop I’ve ever tried using, regardless of what OS it’s running.
Also, and again extremely anecdotal, the most technical people I’ve ever known were all using hackintoshes when I knew them, and would use MacBooks when away from the home/office.
I really don’t understand where this “Mac products are for non-technical people who want to appear technical” trope comes from. MacOS is a phenomenal product for non-technical people. My partner is the least technical person in the world, but they started using macOS in art school and found it intuitive and easy to use. As a technical person, I appreciate the polished UI built on top of the Unix kernel and that I can do everything I need to do from a terminal shell. The fact that the product is excellent for both wildly disparate types of users is testament to how great it is imo.
It’s different between countries, I suppose.
Also people want different things. For me customizable desktops (say, FVWM however I want to script it) are important, because I easily get distracted and overloaded. I also can’t ignore aesthetics, and in my subjective taste Apple style is concentrated bad taste combined with arrogance. Also there’s something in their UI design making me feel nausea and get tired faster. I don’t know what it is.
Other people want something else.
It comes from subjective experience in a country where Apple is traditionally not very popular.
I also can’t separate their disgusting advertising from their products, subjective again.
I’m in the lucky position that I always could work with Linux. I was working with people that couldn’t be bothered to run Windows on their Desktops (administering mostly Linux Servers anyway). In my first job we had a “Standardized” Fedora desktop that was actually attached to our AD so you could log in at any desktop with your domain user. However we did have internal tools and some software requirement that only were available on Linux meaning everyone in our department had a Windows VM for using those tools (kinda overkill but ok). My last job we didn’t have any standard other than the system had to be encrypted and had Eset installed other than that we could set it up he was we liked.
Could I work with a Windows desktop? Sure I’m on the Terminal sshing into systems 98% of the time anyway but at the end of the day I love to simply be on Linux having a workflow I’m used to.
Regarding Office I was just using Office online for anything that needed it.
Getting Linux Systems into AD is possible (but of course requires cooperation on the side of the IT department)
Proxy and VPN should mostly be doable (but of course might not be able to be deployed via Group policies)
When I could get away with it at work, I did.
In the last… I want to say six or seven years, issuing Macbooks to sysadmins has been a common thing in the sectors I work in. Rather than put up with us going rogue and messing up license tracking by rebuilding our stuff with a distro of choice, management just throws OSX at the problem (us, we’re the problem) because operationally it’s close enough for our purposes.
It’s not my choice or preference, but the money’s green.
I got my IT department to allow me to use WSL2, because I have to clone and patch the Linux kernel for our embedded linux device.
😁now I can install stuff, for which I otherwise would have need windows admin privileges, into WSL2, like steam (just for the fun of playing a windows game over proton on a ubuntu install on WSL2 which is just linux hyper-v emulation on windows -> games run very bad and seem do not use the nvidia card in the laptop 🤭)
So my setup is for work windows running WSL if needed, at home, I have a macbookpro11,3 dual boot BigSur and up to date endeavourOS(Arch+KDE) as allrounder devices, a game PC running endeavourOS(Arch+KDE) (NVIDIA 970), a raspberry Pi W2 running my homebridge, an iPad pro for easy webapps (configure *arr services) and streaming. Other not so much PC coputing devices available are PostmarkedOS pine phone, TvOS running Atv, various game consoles with most CFW installed, and many iPhones (collected over time, self bought is only iPhone 4s, 5, 6, X and 12mini)
So, I use them all big OS’s 🤔 well, not really android anywhere… 😁 I just recognised that my router is BSD based (OpnSense)
all big OSs*
👌🏻fixed
🫸🫷
Most of our sysads use macOS. A few use linux but they have limited choices with distros and can only use fedora I think.
Maybe Ubunto too. Sometimes they allow you to use Linux as sys admin.
Right, but the distros employees are allowed to use are dictated by corporate IT so they are able to control them and have the required endpoint security tools. So people who prefer linux have very limited options.
I use office 360 in the browser.
I’m not a typical sysadmin but I use linux anyway. Somehow I always found some workarounds, but I am also not the only one using Linux in our company so the IT needs to work with us to some degree.Haha nice. I heard that office 365 is okay but for let’s say 10000 rows Excel it lacks performance.
For 10k rows you should probably use a real database anyway ;)
Using linux hardware, pretty much one of the requirements for my job, otherwise I look elsewhere. For RDP the only downside being wayland not working with it, so you have to stay with X11.
Sometimes you can’t afford to be picky but with more skills and experience I want it too. And yeah for now X11 is just better supported than Wayland.
I don’t use Windows anymore. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not one of those “Linux purists”, if other people wanna use Windows, go ahead. But I’m not using it. I swear to god, if it becomes mandatory to use Windows at my company, I’m leaving the next day.
Hah I don’t have that privilege but same mindset. It is weird to me that in many companies you were deprived of choice at least. Linux can be worse too but let me just try it and see.
The reason that most companies don’t want you to do that is because they don’t want people running around installing their own OS and doing whatever they feel like on company devices.
Letting people do that would be an IT and information security nightmare.
It’s the same reason that no (sane) company would give local admin privileges to everyone.
The reason why companies generally don’t have an official way to use Linux is because it’s hard to support two platforms simultaneously. Especially when you have, certificate and/or AD network authentication for wireless and wired like we do. You also need to consider how the two platforms should interact with each other. For example Linux devices should be able to connect to the AD domain with Kerberos and need to be able to access SMB shares and probably other systems.
In short it’s more complicated than “just let me try”.
i use a linux laptop; but then they got bought out and our new overlords won’t let me keep using it.
i’ve had it for 5 years now since i didn’t want switch to mac during the last 2 refresh periods; but it’s only a matter of time before it dies.
i think i’ll just switch jobs when it does. lol
Mac is still better evil than Windows but same thinking.
I have tried using my pc as a hackintosh for the heck of it (it was surprisingly easy) it feels bad like everytime you have a untrusted app you need to allow it in settings and even windows 11 feels better. But this is just my opinion maybe mac os has changed and is better now.
i’ve had macbooks for work before and they work okay like windows does; but i think i’ll end up with windows since i do 99% of my work in a terminal emulator with keyboard mapping customizations and re-mapping the keyboard in mac takes weeks/months of trial and error to get it right since it requires me to shift all of the other keys & their shortcuts around to get it work like it does in linux.
i’ve also used wsl in windows for work before too and that worked better for me since i didn’t do anything extra besides copy/paste of my keyboard map. also: since i only use the laptop for work, i don’t care about microsoft being evil; i’ll let the infosec guys handle that.
My wife complained that Mac got worse at searching samba shares.
Software dev here. The only Linux I ever hear of at my job is Open shift. That’s about it. We are neck deep into windows. And honestly, I don’t care. It’s a job and my bills are paid. My house is full of Linux, and I don’t care what a big corporation wants to use for their software.
This mind set has it’s limit when you need to get something done, see your family after 8h of work and don’t log overtime for some stupid windows s****.
But, yes, in most cases I just log additional unproductive time in my timesheet. It would suck, if I couldn’t compansate the overtime and leave work earlier on Fridays or so. Management has to live with the fact that working with Windows is not as efficient.
Right. But what can you do if your job has absolutely no interest in Linux? Force them? I’ve talked to some leads and managers and they laughed at the idea of using Linux. They just don’t need it for whatever they do. And 100% of our backend is SQL and C#. And you know how much they drool over visual studio and all those MS products.
C# on Visual Studio is a fucking nightmare. Switched to Rider on WSL the first chance I had, not looking back.
Then again, if this is running on .NET Framework, there is no choice, afaik. You get a buttplug made of barbed wire in Windows + VS, and you’ll like it
Our dev stack could totally run on Linux, but management wants standardization for security reasons. We have a mixed environment of Win10 and Win11 and our scripts to setup and update the dev environment produce sometimes unpredictable results even on the same version of Windows. <_<
We’re not even using WSL2 to speed things up because we don’t get enough time to adapt our scripts to configure docker to use WSL2.
My next move will be asking to get Fridays off, because they denied my whish to use Linux. If they deny my part-time request, I will look elsewhere in 2025.
Good luck. Hope they don’t deny this one, too.
True but I miss quickness of Linux, being native with my apps and just having my environment. I don’t think I ever gotten a nice working environment as it is constans struggle. On Linux I can say it’s good enough.
Understandable. Make do with what’s available, friend.
MacOS. Systems doesn’t want to support Linux, and the only other option is windows 11. A few of my coworkers have Win11 with WSL and fight it every single day. They’re diehard windows people who have been seriously considering moving to MacOS for their next round of upgrades.
Also Mac here. I started with a linux laptop but still have to do some desktop support work for the company and since they all use Mac it’s just easier to dogfood it. At least I have a decent terminal emulator.
Try this terminal emulator then https://github.com/gnachman/iTerm2
Same here. I really really tried with WSL but the experience is miserable.
Swapped to MacOS and like night and day. I’d be perfectly happy with a £300 linux laptop though.
What about the experience is miserable? I’m just curious as I really like it.
Yeah, I do all my development in WSL2 (Ubuntu) at work every day. I use VSCode on the Windows 11 host. It’s great!
Would I prefer to use Linux natively? Sure, but I also have to support some Windows-only legacy code and a D365 environment or two, so Windows makes sense.
I am happy with WSL as well. I don’t try to get Linux GUI running.
I use vscode remote ssh session. I run docker natively on Linux, not on windows.
The trick is to get DBUS services running in whatever flavor of Linux you install. Don’t try running a full UI session.
The biggest problem I have on Linux is time drift after laptop goes to sleep. it is easy to deal with manually.
Do you have a guide that makes this possible?
And what do you mean by using vscode remote ssh session? Does this vscode instance is started from the WSL via some kind of
ssh- Y?Vscode is installed on windows. Then you install vscode ssh plugin from Microsoft and open ssh connection from vscode to any Linux including WSL hosted Linux.
Yeah, it is slow in the end, not native, many things to configure (like proxies) and so on…
Great! Was it hard also to switch to MacOS as a Linux user for work?
I actually run away from Mac. Mac OS X is long time as not Linux.
WSL is a way better option than whatever VM option is on Mac.
Most tech people actually use macs, because corporations prefer them for their tech employees, while the normal employees usually use Windows. Very few corps support linux on the desktop for their admins – even if their infrastructure is all on linux.
Any source on that mac claim? I’ve not seen any proof of that at all.
(Edit: To clarify, I know people are saying they use MacOS here, but I don’t think the claim that most tech people in corporate settings use MacOS to be true. I only have my personal experience in a very large corporate environment, and am asking for information as every team I’ve worked with was using Windows.)
I am a software developer and work on Kubernetes based project.
I was given a Mac laptop when I joined. It was a few OS releases behind, because corporate IT didn’t support newer versions.
Macs have to run some sort of VM to do docker based development.
VMs are not that great.
When time came, I requested a Windows laptop. I installed Debian on WSL 2. Then got it to run systemd properly and installed Docker on WSL. Then vscode on windows host with remote ssh into WSL.
This setup beats Mac any day for me.
I wish I could run Linux on work laptop, but corporate IT doesn’t know how to deal with it.
I used to have a Linux laptop at work. I was even allowed to install my chosen distro. Then the IT department said “we don’t really know Puppet or how to manage Linux, but we know JAMF, so you’re all getting Macs now.”
My job satisfaction has gone down since then. However, in more positive news, they did end up giving away the old Linux laptops to the employees when they moved office.
It is always interesting to me that companies can afford new Macs but not use old laptops for Linux.
It’s a support question. It may cost $2k more for a Mac, but if it’s officially supported, auto patched, remote managed and they can prove it with security tools, force patching and restrict users, use standard well known tools for compliance and security monitoring/administration/etc, they will easily save thousands in corp licensing, training costs and legal costs. That $2k+ really becomes negligible.
You wish. Most tech companies will get you the cheapest laptop they can get away with.
I remember being denied a 64bit laptop when developing a 64bit only application lol.
